Sharing personal sins when teaching others.

[lcsc]

Ok, I always thought it was just common knowledge but I wanted to get your input and maybe a link.

I was just discussing my wife's lesson with her and she told me that she told them a story about how she would always skip the class she is now teaching (I know not a big deal). I told her that we should not share stories about our personal shortcomings with people we are teaching, she didn't buy it and all I could really come up with on the spot was that even if it doesn't seem like it is a form of bragging, you should only share personal stories if they are uplifting, also you can help the people you are teaching to justify there own problems by using you as an example instead of Christ. Anyway maybe this is something I learned in the MTC (I can't remember) but it always made perfect sense to me until I was called upon to produce an actual reference:confused:

I tried searching lds.org but didn't find anything.

It's late, I hope my thread was understandable.

Edited January 18, 2010 by lcsc

[pam]

I don't see anything wrong with it. I mean I wouldn't want to sit in a class and have them tell me about some grievous sin...but something minor as the one she talked about doesn't seem a big deal to me. Many would be able to relate on that level. If al you did was relate personal experiences that were uplifting you start placing yourself at a level above many in the class. JMHO

[Jamie123]

Adrian Plass, who is one of my all-time favourite authors, has made something of a ministry out of sharing his own shortcomings with his readers. He's been an immense source of comfort to me over the years - not for justifying my own sins, but for showing me that I'm not alone.

However, he also wrote the following verse about how much easier it is to take criticism from yourself than from anyone else:

Gladly I confess my sins

For God had poured His grace in.

But when another lists my faults

I want to smash is face in!

[WillowTheWhisp]

I'm with lcsc on this. What will it benefit the class by the teacher telling them that she used to skip that class? Unless she followed that up by telling them that she then started attending the class and how that benefitted her. Otherwise it just sounds like she is telling them not to bother coming. We are always being told only to uplift each other. I don't see that as setting ourselves above others. We can do it in a humble way.

Have you looked in "Teaching, no geater call" ? There may be some advice on the subject in there.

[pam]

I would agree in that it's all in the presentation. But if using an example of something you did such as the example in the OP can help someone..then I just don't see it as a big deal.

Again, if I sat in that classroom and had a teacher telling me they used to skip classes and look at them now; that would give me some kind of hope as well. If I had been one that had also skipped classes (and yes I have skipped many) it would also give me some kind of hope that I wouldn't be deemed so unworthy or so unknowledgeable that I couldn't also teach that class at some point.

I guess it just depends on how you want to take that personal experience. If you want to go What???? then nope you won't get anything out of it..if you want to say..yeh I've been there and be able to move forward from there..then you've made a point.

Again this is just from my own personal perspective and my only personal thoughts and feelings.

Edited January 18, 2010 by pam

[WillowTheWhisp]

I just followed my own advice andlooked up "Teaching, No Greater Call" - under "Methods of Teaching" in the paragraph on personal experiences it says "Do not talk about past sins or transgressions." which may be what you were looking for. I know it was no gigantic sin but it was more of a 'how not to do it' :)

[julietta]

It also says in the white handbook not to share past transgressions with others...this is probably what you're remembering. :)

[Melissa569]

Well, if it says not to in the handbook, then maybe the church has their reasons for saying so.

But as for my personal feelings on the matter... We shouldn't go too far with personal details, meaning nothing that breaks another person's confidence, is too private or meant to stay only in the marriage/family, and nothing that's inappropriate for church.

But other than that, I think sharing some of your short commings allows people to connect with you.

Too often we look at mentors such as teachers, bishops, missionaries, church activity organizers, etc., and think,

"Yeah, its great they made it to such a respectable position... But its probably because they've always done well, and had a near-perfect life. I bet their parents are doctors, they were popular in school, honor student, never in trouble, family is proud and supportive of them, they set their goals early in life, made few or no mistakes, bla, bla, bla... Unfortunatly, that's not how my life has been. So I will never be able to accomplish the things they have. With their life, they would never understand my problems."

And that's not true. Often, its the people who have made the biggest mistakes and lived through the worst circumstances, who make the most heroic mentors. Sharing your short commings (within reason, and as long as you're allowed to) shows the people who look up to you that not only are you human too, but no matter where they come from, anyone can do something meaningful with their life.

Edited January 18, 2010 by Melissa569

[Wingnut]

The "white handbook" is for missionaries specifically. Missionaries are very strongly discouraged from sharing past sins or transgressions as they teach, and I think it's for a specific reason. When missionaries teach someone about the Gospel, they might be the first LDS people that that person has ever met. Even if they aren't the first, it's likely that the missionaries are the first LDS people that the person has ever had in-depth Gospel conversations with. The missionaries represent the Church in a very real and direct way, not just in living by example, as the rest of us do.

I renewed my temple recommend last week, and one of the questions is if I have any sins or misdeeds in my past that should haev been resolved with Priesthood authority but have not been. Sins or misdeeds. I would argue that skipping classes isn't so much a sin as it is a youthful folly or misdeed, and if shared as part of an object lesson (by a "normal" member, not a missionary), is probably completely benign. Attitude makes a big difference, too. Is it "I used to skip classes a lot, and then I learned blah blah blah so I changed my ways," or is it "Well, I used to to skip classes all the time, but I still turned out fine!"?

[pam]

Attitude makes a big difference, too. Is it "I used to skip classes a lot, and then I learned blah blah blah so I changed my ways," or is it "Well, I used to to skip classes all the time, but I still turned out fine!"?

That's the point I was trying to make. All in the presentation and how you present it.

[WillowTheWhisp]

I agree, the former is encouraging and uplifting but the latter is practically encouraging people to skip class and I think is counter-productive.

[hordak]

I'm with Pam and Wingnut on this. Didn't anyone ever have those" scared straight" talks in school. "This is Tom, Tom got AIDS and is here to share his story"

I still remember an article (IIRC it was in an ensign) when i was a kid about a girl who didn't practice proper fire safety and her story and those pictures left a more lasting impression then all the "don't play with fire" talks i had got in my life.

These are extreme examples but we constantly try to teach others through others, even our own real life. mistakes. It seems to be a useful tool IF, it is presented properly.

[Elgama]

Also remember its your wife's calling she may have been prompted to share it in her lesson because sharing it could have an uplifting and edifying effect on someone in her class. I think as long as she is presenting it as maybe the Lord having a sense of humour calling her to the position as now she can't skip it lol or how she overcame it herself not seeing the problem in it. Its nice to have people who have no problem sharing they are not perfect, but perfectly human.

Was it a couple of conferences ago President Monson shared how he was the worst behaved child in a primary class? I know it gave me a lot of hope for my kids lol

[annamaureen]

I don't see anything wrong with it. I mean I wouldn't want to sit in a class and have them tell me about some grievous sin...but something minor as the one she talked about doesn't seem a big deal to me.

Agreed.

[lcsc]

I just followed my own advice andlooked up "Teaching, No Greater Call" - under "Methods of Teaching" in the paragraph on personal experiences it says "Do not talk about past sins or transgressions." which may be what you were looking for. I know it was no gigantic sin but it was more of a 'how not to do it' :)

Thanks I went and read that section and I think it makes if very clear that you are not to share stories that are not uplifting. Here is a quote from the book.

Different Kinds of Stories

You can use stories from your own experience. You can

also use stories about others, such as stories from the scriptures,

from the lives of Church leaders, and from the lives

of others you know or have read about. For certain purposes,

you may want to use stories that are fictional, such

as parables or folktales.

Personal Experiences

Relating personal experiences can have a powerful

influence in helping others live gospel principles. When

you tell about what you have experienced yourself, you act

as a living witness of gospel truths. If you speak truthfully

and with pure intent, the Spirit will confirm the truth of

your message in the hearts of those you teach. The personal

experiences of those you teach can also have a powerful

influence for good.

Elder Bruce R. McConkie taught, “Perhaps the perfect

pattern in presenting faith-promoting stories is to teach

what is found in the scriptures and then to put a seal of

living reality upon it by telling a similar . . . thing that has

happened in our dispensation and to our people and—

most ideally—to us as individuals” (“The How and Why

of Faith-promoting Stories,” New Era, July 1978, 5).

In relating personal experiences, you and those you

teach should remember the following cautions:

-Do not speak of sacred things unless you are prompted

by the Spirit. The Lord said, “Remember that that which

cometh from above is sacred, and must be spoken with

care, and by constraint of the Spirit” (D&C 63:64).

-Avoid sensationalism, which means saying something

in order to produce a startling effect. Also avoid trying

to produce strong emotions in the people you teach.

-Do not embellish your experiences for any reason.

-Do not tell of experiences in order to draw attention

to yourself.

-Do not talk about past sins or transgressions.

Thanks for all the help.

[john doe]

I think it goes without saying, you don't spill your secrets publicly in church, because then everybody knows about it. I wouldn't advise telling people in a class about personal past sins unless they are fairly minor sins that have been repented of and you are using the story to make a point about the value of obedience to certain comandments.

[Moksha]

History is filled with all kinds of stories. If we choose to retell only the smiley faced stories we are distorting the world for the listeners.

[lcsc]

It's not that you are claiming to be perfect it is just that you tell uplifting personal stories.

[lcsc]

It's not that you are claiming to be perfect it is just that you tell uplifting personal stories.

[Bini]

There's a fine line but it all depends on how one shares their personal experiences.

If someone shares a personal experience as a "been there, done that and nobody knows better than me" know-it-all example—that's really annoying and comes across as even boastful sometimes. Everyone makes mistakes but we rarely learn from each others. So yeh, the "context" and the "attitude" in which it's shared, makes the difference in whether it's appropriate or not.

Years ago, when my ex and I were seeing the Bishop for marriage counseling, he decided to share with us how he struggled being faithful to his wife when they were first married. I was extremely uncomfortable by him sharing that and felt it completely inappropriate. While I assume the Bishop's intentions were to relate to my ex (who was dealing with infidelity) and attempting to make the point of "If I can repent, so can you", I felt as though he downplayed the seriousness of our situation and gave my ex the impression that "Hey, it's OK, sin consumes the best of us, just don't do it again".. I just felt it was a very distasteful move on the Bishop's part, especially, when my ex and I were both VERY inactive.

[Moksha]

The most memorable talk I remember at Sacrament meeting was of a guy telling about his life of crime, his time in the penitentiary and how his conversion to the Church had turned his life around.

[pam]

-Do not tell of experiences in order to draw attention

to yourself.

The argument could then be used not to tell personal uplifting stories because then you are drawing attention to yourself.

[hordak]

I think it goes without saying, you don't spill your secrets publicly in church, because then everybody knows about it. I wouldn't advise telling people in a class about personal past sins unless they are fairly minor sins that have been repented of and you are using the story to make a point about the value of obedience to certain comandments.

So true. That's why if you must use a big one you tell it about a 3rd person with a made up name.

"Well you see i have this friend named... John Doe:)"

[waterssf]

Gen 19:26

26 ¶ But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.To demonstrate the great strength which Jeremiah would have as the spokesman of the Lord, he was called "an iron pillar" (Jer. 1:18). This contrasts with Lot's wife, who became a "pillar of salt" (Gen. 19:26), a monument of God's judgment against the disobedient. Would these young people say sister______ did this and overcame it, so I can commit it also no problem.

[pam]

"Well you see i have this friend named... John Doe:)"

Isn't that being a bit presumptuous?