Long Term Investigation (and other dreary ramblings)

[Jamie123]

I’ve often read about people being “long-term investigators” of the Church, as if this were considered an acceptable position for a person to be in. My own experience as a “long term investigator” was rather different. I vividly remember about 18 years ago going to the Stake Conference and meeting some of the Sisters who I’d spoken to the week before. I went up to them and said “Hello Sisters, how are you?” but they weren’t very pleased to see me. They looked at me unsmiling, and one of them asked: “What are you expecting to achieve by coming here?”

Not everyone put it in quite such blunt terms, but I often sensed an unspoken attitude of “we want you as a member or not at all”. Once I was even told to put a timescale on things: “See if you can get a testimony within the next month.” I’ve never known anything quite like this outside Mormonism. It finally ended (after about 2-3 years) in one very unpleasant session with the elders, one of whom accused me of having a testimony all along and suppressing it. Shortly after that, I finally went back to Anglicanism.

P.S. I do have happy memories of my association with the LDS church, and I met a lot of great people. I just sensed an unhappiness amongst certain "key" people at that time (partly - I suspect - because the church had burned down and the ward had since been divided into 2 branches) and the missionaries seemed particularly irritable. They were quite different from the two beautiful joy-filled Sisters who first introduced me to the Church. I’m a bit down myself at the moment, and I’ve been brooding over unhappy memories. I’ll get over it. And thanks for reading my depressed ramblings.

Edited March 29, 2010 by Jamie123

[rameumptom]

Jamie,

Thankfully, the Church is more true now than it was 18 years ago. Seriously. We learn "line upon line, precept upon precept". Sadly, members are often not what they should be, regarding those visitors that actually take the time to walk through the chapel doors. Still, focus on the teachings and the good fruits of the overall Church, and I think you'll find a decent religion with much to offer.

And even if you don't join the Church, you'll find friends in it along the way, including here at LDS.Net

[marts1]

I had Anglican roots as well....As Ram has said it is quite apparent that the gospel is for the perfecting of the saints. Members are at all different levels of maturity. Whenever I feel myself looking somewhat judgemental at another which is easy to do, I try hard to steer away from this attitude which contributes to negative feelings, realizing I am a sinner as well.

[havejoy]

I'm one of those who was a long term investigator. I attended Sacrament and other meetings for over 3 years before I finally took the plunge.

I got a little good natured teasing but that was all.

[marts1]

I'm purdy sure if you had a look at the stats, those that took a good deal of time investigating the church, you would find thier activity percentage much higher then those who were like me, getting baptized as soon as possible.

[bytebear]

My experience is this. My brother in law and his wife were investigating the church. They went to an investigators fireside where they were pretty much told to take it leave it. And they left it.

But, you know what. They needed the push, one way or another. I still think they will come to love the church, but they weren't investigating fora testimony, but for a social outlet. One thing Jamie said which resonated with me was, "I’ve never known anything quite like this outside Mormonism." And that is a big difference between LDS and other churches. We are not a social club, although social interaction and fellowship is a natural byproduct of the gospel. We are a religion of proselytizers. We have a lot more to believe than just thousand years old traditions and we want you to join, not because it's fun but because you have a testimony of the Book of Mormon, because you think the church is the only true church on the whole face of the Earth. So, sometimes it's better to clean house, and let those who aren't prepared to really gain a testimony more time away from the church, rather than have it be a comfortable social experience.

So, come and enjoy our church, but we are about spiritual progression, and sometimes, if you stop progressing, maybe it's time to take a step back and decide why you are involved in the church. Maybe it will take a step back before you can move forward.

Sorry if I offended anyone, but if you aren't progressing, it's time for a push. And to Jamie, I hope you gain a testimony of the gospel's truth, the Book of Mormon, and all of that. And it won't be the social aspects that will do the convincing.

[Landy77]

Greetings, I spent 5 years investigatingoff and on. I got frustrated with people telling me I should have faith and accept a doctrine instead of having an answer and knowing where it originated when I asked questions. I decided to trek it on my own. I decided the most knowledgeable people about BoM is BYU. So I started watching lectures and listening to research topics they have online. I asked questions to the online missionaries and I learned a lot that I would have never known any other way.

I was looking at the archeology stuff one day and came across a quote from Neil Maxwell. It read “The Book of Mormon will remain in the realm of faith. It has a bodyguard of scholars who now surround it and protect it from the frail attacks often made on it. But even so, it's the witness of the Spirit that matters most.” I thought to myself, why would this guy who spent half his life doing research proving the BoM exist say something like that? My opinion he was down grading his work. A few days I thought of it and realised nothing they pull out of the ground will change my mind. I either believe in the church or I don't. I chose to believe and was baptised on March 27 2010.

I hope this story encourages you to keep going. Not everyone knows everything, nor how to react to an investigator or how to be a missionary. Don't let people rub you the wrong way. If you like, we can keep in touch and I can share with you some of what I learned.

[rameumptom]

I think I'd rather have someone attend Church without being baptized for years, than to not have them come at all. An occasional gentle push towards the baptismal font by friends and missionaries is okay. But we should not be telling people to take it or leave it. It isn't an "all or nothing" thing, at least not at this moment. For those who look for a social experience, fine. Come on in and enjoy the socializing. Hopefully a little bit of spiritual power will infiltrate them over time, turning them into spiritual powerhouses, as well.

The Lord created the Church for the spiritually sick, for the healthy do not need a physician. Are we going to turn away those who are spiritually sick, when we can at least offer some good to them? I hope not.

Church studies show that the average convert has had at least 7 quality contacts regarding the Church, prior to taking the discussions. That's a lot of socialization going on. But often we must meet certain social needs before a person is ready to hear the gospel. Can a starving man focus on the gospel? Or must he be fed and nourished first?

[NeuroTypical]

They looked at me unsmiling, and one of them asked: “What are you expecting to achieve by coming here?”

...

Once I was even told to put a timescale on things: “See if you can get a testimony within the next month.”

...

one of whom accused me of having a testimony all along and suppressing it.

Well Dang Jamie! Sorry you ran into some grumpy folks. I understand what you mean about stuff like this not really happening outside of mormonism. Where else do you get people totally geared around extending a hand of fellowship, who proceed to get ticked off or uncomfortable when you take that hand?

I've heard it said many times, that the church must be true, or the missionaries would have destroyed it a long time ago. Thanks for your charitable attempt to explain these experiences. Even though you were on the receiving end, I'm grateful you're trying to see the reasons behind the grumpiness. Understanding why people do dumb things, is one of the attributes of Christ - and it often makes it easier to forgive.

I personally believe that the only good reason to be a mormon, is you believe God wants you to be one. If you should ever come to that understanding, bad experiences like this don't bug you so much.

Good luck to you, and God bless!

LM

[FunkyTown]

Well Dang Jamie! Sorry you ran into some grumpy folks. (Snip)

Good luck to you, and God bless!

LM

It's things like this that make me realize how awesome you are, LM.

[InquisitiveSoul]

Sometimes it takes a while to make sense. Not too long ago I came to the conclusion it couldn't possibly be true because it wasn't coming together and I had put years into it. Then out of the blue one day around the time I had given up on it, everything clicked and came together for me. I had largely moved on but the new insights I was blessed with compelled me to start again with my studies. As I read the Book of Mormon and attended Church again things made sense.

Do I understand everything? No. Do I expect to? No. What I do understand now tells me the rest will fall into place with faith and prayer. Focus on the light instead of the dark is what I've found.

I've met my share of "interesting" people who are members or missionaries. When you think about it, the only diffference between them and you is their level of faith in the gospel. While they may have more faith, it doesn't mean they are perfect. Many of them do offend without trying to, you simply have to focus on yourself and try not to take offense (especially where none is intended). As odd as it may sound, sometimes I've felt I have to set an example as a non member for the member because they are coming across from a less than Christian position. They are trying to help, but some miss the mark with their attempt at "tough love."

[Jamie123]

Well Dang Jamie! Sorry you ran into some grumpy folks. I understand what you mean about stuff like this not really happening outside of mormonism. Where else do you get people totally geared around extending a hand of fellowship, who proceed to get ticked off or uncomfortable when you take that hand?

I've heard it said many times, that the church must be true, or the missionaries would have destroyed it a long time ago. Thanks for your charitable attempt to explain these experiences. Even though you were on the receiving end, I'm grateful you're trying to see the reasons behind the grumpiness. Understanding why people do dumb things, is one of the attributes of Christ - and it often makes it easier to forgive.

I personally believe that the only good reason to be a mormon, is you believe God wants you to be one. If you should ever come to that understanding, bad experiences like this don't bug you so much.

Good luck to you, and God bless!

LM

LOL - thanks LM. I was in a bit of a "black mood" when I wrote that. It doesn't reflect what I really think and I hope no one was too offended by it.

I've met plenty of grumpyness in my own church, and it doesn't bother me because none of these people claims to be super-spiritual. What's shocking though is when you experience unpleasantness from people who claim (like the Mormons) to have a "special joy in their lives" or a "special relationship with God" which you "so obviously" don't have. By raising your expectations of them, they make their failings seem less excusable than they really are.

I'm not just talking about Mormons here: I once knew a girl who was always telling me how God had "changed her life completely" and how "everything she now did was under the guidance of the Holy Spirit" and why couldn't I stop being such a jerk and do the same? When I'd point out that her own actions were not always beyond reproach, her response was always: "Who are you to judge me?" "Don't criticise a person unless you've walked a mile in their shoes!" But how many miles had she walked in mine before criticising me?

(By the way, she was not LDS. In fact she had nothing good whatsoever to say about Mormonism.)

Sorry...I'm getting back into "grumpy" mode myself here. What I mean to say is that it doesn't always do to take the self-styled "Mature Christian" too seriously. Christ Himself is the only truly perfect example of a Christian.

Edited March 31, 2010 by Jamie123

[prisonchaplain]

I suppose that because I grew up in a Christian tradition that embraces "crisis conversion," emphasizes the end times, and believes the struggle against sin and Satan is urgent, I am sympathetic to some spiritual pressure. Many is the sermon I've heard in which listeners were warned that "Today is the day, now is the acceptable time of salvation. We're not guaranteed even our next breath. You feel the Holy Spirit wooing you. Reject him not! Raise that hand, come to the altar--accept Jesus into your heart and be saved!"

This generation emphasizes more "friendship evangelism," and relational witnessing. We are more long-term and gentle in our efforts. Much of that transition is good. On the other hand, the sense of urgency is biblical.

[Jamie123]

Many is the sermon I've heard in which listeners were warned that "Today is the day, now is the acceptable time of salvation. We're not guaranteed even our next breath. You feel the Holy Spirit wooing you. Reject him not! Raise that hand, come to the altar--accept Jesus into your heart and be saved!"

LOL - I've heard many sermons of that kind too! What always gets me though is the rapid descent into "normality" once the service is over. After listening to all the scary hellfire talk, everyone goes off for coffee and biscuits and a pleasant chat about lawnmowers (or whatever). The surrealness takes some getting used to.

[Maureen]

LOL - I've heard many sermons of that kind too! What always gets me though is the rapid descent into "normality" once the service is over. After listening to all the scary hellfire talk, everyone goes off for coffee and biscuits and a pleasant chat about lawnmowers (or whatever). The surrealness takes some getting used to.

So true. :)

M.