Sacrament Meeting Protocols

[Guest mormonmusic]

I was reflecting on my experiences as member in the congregation, and as someone who has been involved in conducting Sacrament meetings. One ward I was in had protocols in which they trained the Ward -- to make the meetings more spiritual and meaningful.

Here are a few that I thought were useful:

1. Don't start out the talk with "When Brother So and So asked me to give this talk....."

2. Discussion about how much time you had to prepare the talk, thus embarassing the Bishopric member who may have only asked you to give it a couple days before (and sometimes there are valid reasons for doing this).

3. Furthering personal agendas such as "In my work with Unicef, we are holding a food drive at such and such a place -- please participate"

4. Discussion about highly personal or health experiences...

Do you have any others you've experienced in your Wards, as direction from the Bishop, Stake President, or as a matter of culture?

[Hemidakota]

Nice listing...I can add two more here;

5. DO NOT READ FROM THE PAPER!!!!!!! There is nothing worst than watching someone spends about 80-percent looking down at a written talk.

6. At least, bring the Spirit with you before you talk. Even if, it may require you to fast and prayer, so be it.

[scdoyle]

I wish our ward would train members on how to correctly bear their testimony on fast Sunday. Too often we hear mini talks given as a testimony. Meanwhile, there are 15 others waiting for their turn to bear their testimony. I also love it when the last person to bear their testimony says "I know we're short on time, but . . ", then they go on with their 10 minute "testimony".

[MarginOfError]

7. Recognize that the people giving talks are not trained public speakers and are often terrified of public speaking. Give them a break, try to ignore the flaws in their presentation (even if it means ignoring that they're reading from the paper) and be uplifted anyway.

When we give attention to talks, even bad ones, we improve the ability of the Spirit to teach us, and to reach the speaker in order to give the message the Lord needs delivered that day.

In the interest of disclosure, I will admit that I am terrible at taking this advice to heart. I tend to be very critical of speakers, and it's an area in which I really ought to improve myself.

[NeuroTypical]

How about we work on our ability to discern spiritually uplifting things from innapropriately or inadequately given talks? Seems to me like keeping a list of stuff that annoys you, is basically saying "I refuse to budge one spiritual inch if anyone offends me with anything on this list."

In other words, you wanna make the meetings more spiritual and meaningful? Go work on the person you see in the mirror.

LM

(but yeah, ditto to what MOE said. It's easy to give this advice, hard to take it.)

[Guest mormonmusic]

How about we work on our ability to discern spiritually uplifting things from innapropriately or inadequately given talks? Seems to me like keeping a list of stuff that annoys you, is basically saying "I refuse to budge one spiritual inch if anyone offends me with anything on this list."

In other words, you wanna make the meetings more spiritual and meaningful? Go work on the person you see in the mirror.

LM

(but yeah, ditto to what MOE said. It's easy to give this advice, hard to take it.)

I can forward the concern to our Stake Presidency who created the list:D. I didn't see it as a list of beefs at all -- it was meant to teach the members how to do better at uplifting each other.

Remember, there are a lot of people who have only awakening spirituality who attend our meetings. People on the verge of inactivity, non-members who are forming impressions, without much testimony to guide them, about our religion. I think anything we can do to respectfully teach the members how to carry the spirit effectively in our meetings will help these groups of people.

What you are suggesting is for the more spiritually mature. And not everyone's at that level.

I think the guidelines were good and made the meetings better in our Ward.

[MarginOfError]

Once again, I find myself standing on both sides of the issue. On the one hand, I see the importance of seeking to be spiritually uplifted despite how wretchedly lame a talk may be. On the other hand, it'd bet a lot easier to be uplifted if the talks weren't so bad.

The Church actually has a way of addressing this dialectic that, at least in the units in which I have served, is very much under utilized. I think if more units made use of the Teaching, No Greater Call course, we might see a huge improvement in Sacrament talks and lessons that would be a gigantic step in the right direction.

[Guest mormonmusic]

Once again, I find myself standing on both sides of the issue. On the one hand, I see the importance of seeking to be spiritually uplifted despite how wretchedly lame a talk may be. On the other hand, it'd bet a lot easier to be uplifted if the talks weren't so bad.

The Church actually has a way of addressing this dialectic that, at least in the units in which I have served, is very much under utilized. I think if more units made use of the Teaching, No Greater Call course, we might see a huge improvement in Sacrament talks and lessons that would be a gigantic step in the right direction.

I thought it was sad when they did away with the teacher improvement coordinator position years ago. Teaching, speaking, inspiring others is at the heart of what we do in the Church, yet the skills go largely undeveloped. With the removal of the teacher improvement coordinator position, that responsibliity was faded into the many responsibilities of the priesthood quorums and auxiliaries, so developing people's ability to present and teach has fallen by the wayside.

[MarginOfError]

I thought it was sad when they did away with the teacher improvement coordinator position years ago. Teaching, speaking, inspiring others is at the heart of what we do in the Church, yet the skills go largely undeveloped. With the removal of the teacher improvement coordinator position, that responsibliity was faded into the many responsibilities of the priesthood quorums and auxiliaries, so developing people's ability to present and teach has fallen by the wayside.

Not so! It was put under the direction of the Sunday School president. Accordingly, the Sunday School could offer the teacher improvement class in the same way it offers Marriage and Family Relations, or that it can offer Temple Prep in coordination with the High Priests Group. I've mentioned this to my bishopric a couple of times, and the Sunday School president has mentioned it a couple times too, but it never seems to come to fruition.

I guess that's one more thing to put on my list of things for, "Well when I'm the bishop...."

[not_ashamed]

I was reflecting on my experiences as member in the congregation, and as someone who has been involved in conducting Sacrament meetings. One ward I was in had protocols in which they trained the Ward -- to make the meetings more spiritual and meaningful.

Here are a few that I thought were useful:

1. Don't start out the talk with "When Brother So and So asked me to give this talk....."

2. Discussion about how much time you had to prepare the talk, thus embarassing the Bishopric member who may have only asked you to give it a couple days before (and sometimes there are valid reasons for doing this).

3. Furthering personal agendas such as "In my work with Unicef, we are holding a food drive at such and such a place -- please participate"

4. Discussion about highly personal or health experiences...

Do you have any others you've experienced in your Wards, as direction from the Bishop, Stake President, or as a matter of culture?

I agree with the first three, however with the forth I disagree. I think going on and on about your personal life can be annoying depending on the context in which you are doing it.Sometimes the spirit will lead you to talk about something personal, because there is someone who needs to hear it. You may never know who or why but it's important to follow that voice. I have somehow managed to fly under the radar lol.. I have never had to give a talk in sacrament, but there have been a few talks given in sacrament when a person shared very personal things but in a spiritual way and they touched me deeply.

[Hemidakota]

In the interest of disclosure, I will admit that I am terrible at taking this advice to heart. I tend to be very critical of speakers, and it's an area in which I really ought to improve myself.

I am not great public speaker either, according to my wife. She complains, I would ramble like Hugh Nibley.

[rameumptom]

I think we first need to recognize, as MoE mentioned, that most are not trained speakers.

But then we resolve that issue by establishing a way for them to become experienced. Classes on teaching are very important, whether it is for Sacrament or in Sunday School. We often accept the lowest common denominator, simply because we use inexperience as an excuse. What excuse is there for someone who has been in the Church for decades, teaching classes, etc?

We need to raise our sights, and place importance on teaching skills in our wards. There is no reason most members cannot improve these skills. It does require training and it does require the members to make an effort to improve. I do not expect all to be experts overnight, but if a person is no better now than they were 5 years ago at giving a talk, it means they are either dead or stagnant in their progression.

There is no reason for a Dry Council speaker. High Counselors should be good speakers. Or at least learn how to write a good talk, so they can read it if necessary.

[Guest mormonmusic]

Not so! It was put under the direction of the Sunday School president. Accordingly, the Sunday School could offer the teacher improvement class in the same way it offers Marriage and Family Relations, or that it can offer Temple Prep in coordination with the High Priests Group. I've mentioned this to my bishopric a couple of times, and the Sunday School president has mentioned it a couple times too, but it never seems to come to fruition.

I guess that's one more thing to put on my list of things for, "Well when I'm the bishop...."

One of my assistants came back from the meeting where the apostles shared the program (Boyd K packer) and told me responsibility for improving gospel teaching in adult groups was with the priesthood quorums. Formerly, the teacher improvement coordinator reported to the Sunday School President. And yes, I'm sure the SS can still offer the teaching the gospel course.

Frankly, it doesn't really matter because you support the point -- the elevation of teaching skills is a low priority in the Church, regardless of how it's structured.

[Hemidakota]

Speaking about HC speakers, I truly marvel when I see a HC speaker using a prop to get a message across to the audience.

[MarginOfError]

One of my assistants came back from the meeting where the apostles shared the program (Boyd K packer) and told me responsibility for improving gospel teaching in adult groups was with the priesthood quorums. Formerly, the teacher improvement coordinator reported to the Sunday School President. And yes, I'm sure the SS can still offer the teaching the gospel course.

Frankly, it doesn't really matter because you support the point -- the elevation of teaching skills is a low priority in the Church, regardless of how it's structured.

I'll give you half a point this time. (I'm keeping the other half for myself).

The November 17, 2006 bulletin states that

1. Priesthood and auxiliary leaders should

• Orient each new teacher in their organizations
• Provide ongoing instruction and support for teachers in their organizations

2. Ward Sunday School presidencies should

• Assume the responsibilities previously held by the ward teacher improvement coordinators
• Assist priesthood and auxiliary leaders in orienting, instructing, and providing ongoing support for teachers.

[Moksha]

1. Don't start out the talk with "When Brother So and So asked me to give this talk....."

This seems like the most common talk introduction in my ward.

2. Discussion about how much time you had to prepare the talk...

Time preparation always follows the above introduction. Then there is some mention of disliking public speaking and feeling nervous. At this point I am hoping they can mentally undress all of us, so as to calm down and get on with it.

3. Furthering personal agendas such as...

Yeah, don't want to hear about choir practice again, but I do sometimes miss that part about our very rare ward activities, so that bears repeating. Let's pray for active activities committees.

4. Discussion about highly personal or health experiences...

Actually, I like this "relating the speech back to personal experience". Keeps them from quoting stuff and forces them to add originality of thought. Whenever they can avoid the same old same old, it is appreciated. If you make it inspiring and fresh we will all want to hug you. Two hugs if you can add humor.

[applepansy]

The most spiritual testimony I've ever heard is from a young woman with cerbral palsy. She is very difficult to understand. I've heard people in my ward complain about why anyone would allow her to speak. Yet, others have stood after she speaks and have expressed how deeply they have felt the spirit while she spoke even though they didn't understand a word she said. I have often found myself inexplicably in tears when she speaks. The spirit attends her, but only those willing to feel the spirit feel it. Those worried about protocols don't.

Rules don't work with the spirit. If you're not feeling the spirit look at your own heart, then prepare yourself accordingly.

[Guest mormonmusic]

Actually, I like this "relating the speech back to personal experience". Keeps them from quoting stuff and forces them to add originality of thought. Whenever they can avoid the same old same old, it is appreciated. If you make it inspiring and fresh we will all want to hug you. Two hugs if you can add humor.

I agree that personal experiences make people sit up and listen. However, I think the guidelines were discouraging details that were so personal they detract from the Spirit and the message. For example, "I gained a personal testimony of this while I was recovering my my vasectomy" or similar.

I think personal experiences are great because people can relate them off the cuff rather than reading from the paper.

[mnn727]

5. DO NOT READ FROM THE PAPER!!!!!!! There is nothing worst than watching someone spends about 80-percent looking down at a written talk.

.

While I understand where you are coming from, not every is comfortable as a public speaker or can put words together without reading them.

I enjoy a well prepared talk even if its 100% read rather than one where someone spends little time in preperation and tries to 'wing it'.

[mnn727]

I thought it was sad when they did away with the teacher improvement coordinator position years ago. .

"They" being who? Your ward? cause that calling is alive and well in my ward.

[MarginOfError]

"They" being who? Your ward? cause that calling is alive and well in my ward.

"They" being the First Presidency. In the November 17, 2006 letter I referenced a few posts ago, it was stated, "The positions of stake teacher improvement coordinator and ward teacher improvement coordinator have been discontinued."

The responsibilities of the teacher improvement coordinator were given to the quorum and auxiliary presidencies, with the Sunday School presidency being the primary contact for support.

[Guest mormonmusic]

"They" being who? Your ward? cause that calling is alive and well in my ward.

It might be that your Bishop sees a need for greater emphasis on teaching skills, and has continued the position, even though it's no longer a formal position in our organization.

[Danite]

Well folks we have had guidelines about sacrament meetings talks for years and teacher development classes and instruction. The key factor of success in both these area is in the preparation. " puny preparation equals puny revelation "

[Guest mormonmusic]

The one I heard that was worded a little more positively was "Proper Prior Preparation Prevents Poor Performance"

[Danite]

yes perfect practice makes perfect Doesn't the D&C say if your prepared you shall not fear Preparation is the key factor of success. I think we can tell if someone has put the effort into honestly seeking the will of the lord on a subject and those who don't To me it's not to hard discern. I think they know in there hearts they not fooling anyone especially the lord.