The Womens' Movement

[luckynumbersleven]

the LDS church opposed the equal rights legislation, proposed in the 70s i believe.

but, is it too late. was talking w/ some friends the other day and discussed how much harder it is now for an LDS man to support his family than it was 10, 20, 30, even 40 yrs ago.

not only has the cost of real estate spiralled out of control compared to what we earn, but it is becoming increasingly difficult to raise a family on one salary alone.

this is tempting many married women and mothers to enter the workplace (and in some parts of the US and UK they are openly welcomed).

the reasons given for two parents working is the need to support a family, to put a roof over their heads, and clothe and feed them

satan is subtle i guess, tempting us to break god's laws, to dishonor the priesthood, by a genuine concern to fulfill our responsibilities of procreating and having families.

but it's not about that really is it? are we being decoyed by the gods of materialism, and in this day and age we are being tempted more then ever.

our generation will have to learn sacrifice on a par w/ those who went thru the depression and two world wars if we are to enter the kingdom of heaven. that means, in practical terms, an able bodied LDS husband and father supporting his family on his earnings alone, w/ wife/mother (albeit an educated/skilled woman in the event of death/divorce) being at home w/ the kids - even if this means sacrificing material possessions (like two cars, eating out, a mortgage even...)

actually, this is a question rather than a statement, since i am engaged and know that it will be very difficult to support two of us, let alone children as well, on just my salary (even though i work in a professional field which required graduate schooling) - it's something i'm 'wrestling' with - but deep down think/believe the truth is as above-stated

??

[Winnie G]

You are blaming this on the women’s movement.

Oh, please gag me already. I am old enough to remember the 60’s

Thanks to the women’s movement women have the choice to stay home or work and receive equal pay for the same work a man does. To marry or to remain single and choose carriers that women use to be shut out of.

Tempting many married women and mothers to enter the workplace

.

Please for heavens sake.

Yes, all women should go with out the same equal rights as a man, and heaven forbid she is left with children and has no experience or education to support her self or children, then becoming a burden on society on welfare.

Satan has been tempting us to break god's laws since the beginning.

If you want to blame Satan of anything, he is to blame for society seeing the choice to stay at home as worthless in their eyes.

You cannot blame the women’s movement on economic choices the White House and members of Wall Street make and the world economics as a whole.

Our generation will have to learn to sacrifice as those who went thru the Grate Depression and Two World Wars Korea, Vietnam, and the conflicts we are engaged in now.

This is the right of passage every generation to pass though, how do you see Heavenly father's plane for growth of this generation. ?

It is better for man to struggle and learn what is truly important then like the stagnant 50’s were women like my mother went to collage to take fine arts and find a husband, Back then those were the choices.

They were given no choice but servitude to her husband wile wearing the apron and a smile.

I remember my mother meeting my step-father at the door at 6 PM with a Scotch in one hand and a “How was your day”? line every day. OH Gag!

She was miserable like most women who just wanted the right to have More even if they decided to be a wife and mother.

The women’s movement was not the end of the family it was the beginning of choice.

I have worked in what was once called a man’s field and I earnd as much as the man standing next to me.

That choice has given women with the responsibility to work as hard as that man and not using an excuse every 23 days to dump their choice on to their co-workers.

I raised four children and not one is a cereal killer.

They all have a fine work ethic and respect for women.

The equal rights amendment by the way was defeated because the sensitive feelings of the population did not want to see women in combat. The draft was still going on and if passed women of 18 would join men of the same age in the draft.

Women still ended up in combat it just took longer.

I would strongly suggest you look to those leaders we vote in and the greed of wall street for the greed that has turned us in to a two income society.

You really need to ready President Hinckley’s book Standing for Something. He explains greed and the pursuit of the almighty dollar not the women’s movement for your complaint.

[pushka]

Well Said Winnie!!! I just knew you'd have the right words to reply to the O.P.

[prisonchaplain]

this is tempting many married women and mothers to enter the workplace (and in some parts of the US and UK they are openly welcomed). the reasons given for two parents working is the need to support a family, to put a roof over their heads, and clothe and feed them. satan is subtle i guess, tempting us to break god's laws, to dishonor the priesthood, by a genuine concern to fulfill our responsibilities of procreating and having families. but it's not about that really is it? are we being decoyed by the gods of materialism, and in this day and age we are being tempted more then ever. our generation will have to learn sacrifice on a par w/ those who went thru the depression and two world wars if we are to enter the kingdom of heaven. that means, in practical terms, an able bodied LDS husband and father supporting his family on his earnings alone, w/ wife/mother (albeit an educated/skilled woman in the event of death/divorce) being at home w/ the kids - even if this means sacrificing material possessions (like two cars, eating out, a mortgage even...)

actually, this is a question rather than a statement, since i am engaged and know that it will be very difficult to support two of us, let alone children as well, on just my salary (even though i work in a professional field which required graduate schooling) - it's something i'm 'wrestling' with - but deep down think/believe the truth is as above-stated??

Okay, here's my outsider's question: Is it official doctrine or teaching of the LDS that women should stay home and bare as many children as possible, and not enter the workforce unless absolutely necessary?

I know that this traditional model is back in favor, and that it can be a blessed approach. However, is it THE official best model in the church, or simply one that gets the most nods of approval? Are women who work, even in the professions, somehow looked down upon as being compromising, less spiritual, more materialistic?

We're raising three girls, and got started a bit late (I'm 42 now, oldest daughter is 5). We're done with the producing part, and now concentrating on the raising. We both agreed that mom would stay home until at least the youngest reaches fulltime school age. Afterwards, she'll likely go to work--not because she has to, but because she wants to. Yes, it will make life materially more comfortable. But, it's more about her keeping her mind active, and having something to fall back on, should something happen to me.

In my church, I know many people would nod approvingly if she chose to stay home, and would applaud me as an able breadwinner and solid traditional dad. On the other hand, I doubt anyone will speak poorly of us if she does end up working.

Is there an official LDS view, or is the poster merely stating her take?

[Outshined]

In my church, I know many people would nod approvingly if she chose to stay home, and would applaud me as an able breadwinner and solid traditional dad. On the other hand, I doubt anyone will speak poorly of us if she does end up working.

This pretty much sums up the LDS viewpoint in my experience. About half the moms in my ward work, most just to get out of the house.

[Traveler]

I know that this traditional model is back in favor, and that it can be a blessed approach. However, is it THE official best model in the church, or simply one that gets the most nods of approval? Are women who work, even in the professions, somehow looked down upon as being compromising, less spiritual, more materialistic?

Is there an official LDS view, or is the poster merely stating her take?

PC. I hope you do not mind that I add to your thread, some of my point of view. First off to the “Women’s movement”. For many years a great problem existing in our society was being moved toward better understanding. Women were advancing many great causes, including their own opportunities. Then something went wrong. In the late 60's a movement started that became known as the “Free Love” movement or “Hippy” movement. As this stupid movement started to ebb a new “Liberated Male” movement began that idolized men of the James Bond character that could avoid marriage and family and have much more fun (sex) with classy and hip women. This movement also help start the “Liberated Female” movement that idolized women without connection to marriage and family as the ideal and hip woman to match the liberated male. This movement has never been part of the core women’s movement - and I for one regret ever allowing a small minority of “Women” attaching such a flawed concept to the movement started by honorable women some time ago.

But you also introduce another problem. That is the problem that many males face today because they are unprepared by their social, political and religious teachers. That is the problem of how to provide for their families. This is not a new problem to our era. It is a rather old problem. May I share with you a couple of stories. First is a lesson from my father. As I have stated in the past - my father always had plenty of money but he made sure that his children did not know this fact til after we had grown to adulthood. I thought I had to work to help support the family but my father had me work for the same reason that man needed to be cast from Eden - to learn the tremendous benefit or blessing of work. Anyway, one day my father came to me with a new assignment. He said that he had arranged for me to work (for free) with a man so I could learn to wash windows. I would work for this gentleman for 2 weeks and then I would be responsible for washing the windows on the family properties. This was not a match made in heaven because I had a hard time learning the “proper” method for washing windows. I wasted too many movements and time. I did learn something else from this window washer. He made more money than the average doctor with his window washing business. His real secret of how to work and make money would take me several more years.

The second story is about a Mormon Bishop I met while on my LDS mission in Oregon. This man was unbelievable when it came to raising funds. In those days each LDS ward and stake were responsible for raising funds needed to build churches and various activities, materials and such. The ward was in a poor rural area but one if the riches wards I ever experienced. The ward had fund raisers packaging chickens for shipment a couple of weeks a few times a year and once a year they did inventory at some stores to rase funds - they made all the money the ward needed without a single donation - everybody in the ward was expected to work (give time rather than money). One more thing about this bishop. He only worked about 6 months out of the year and he had this big country place with a huge house. He was a self made millionaire. I asked him what he did for a living when he was working. His answer - a welder. I was a certified welder by time I got out of high school and I thought for a fact welders do not make the kind of money he did. So I pressed for more information. He answered that he was the best welder in the world. When nobody else could get a welding job they would call him and he would figure out how to do it and they would gladly pay him. In the late 60's he made over $200,000 a year and he only worked half the year at his welding business.

I have tried to express that money and church work do not mix - kind of like oil and water. That is because money corrupts. You may think there are exceptions but some day you will learn that I did not lie concerning this matter. There are several scriptures that indicate what the L-rd expects. I will offer a few of these concepts:

1. Six days shalt thou labor and do thy work and rest on the 7th day. If someone is a full time minister for the L-rd what six days do they do their work and what day is the day of rest? I do not post this to be critical but if this principle is not understood one will not be able to utilize the L-rd’s method of providing for their family.

2. Learn the secret, joy and benefit of hard work. Learn to enjoy work, learn to love work and wish for work more than money - for both you and your children. Money does not provide what the L-rd expects to be provided by a man for his family but work does. It is the first commandment given to man being sent from Eden.

3. Do not be taken by pride and greed and never spend all you have earned.

The Traveler

[BenRaines]

President Ezra Taft Benson gave a special fireside. In the fireside he said that it was important in the development of families that one of the parents be there at the crossroads of childrens lives. In the First Presidency's Proclamation on the Family. President Hinkley has said that is mans divinley appointed role to support his family.

There is no doctrine that I am aware of that says women are to remain home barefoot and pregnant as asked by PC.

Ben

[Snow]

the LDS church opposed the equal rights legislation, proposed in the 70s i believe.

satan is subtle i guess, tempting us to break god's laws, to dishonor the priesthood, by a genuine concern to fulfill our responsibilities of procreating and having families.

but it's not about that really is it? are we being decoyed by the gods of materialism, and in this day and age we are being tempted more then ever.

Yes, yes - that crafty old satan.... trying to make us think that women should have equal rights with men.

[prisonchaplain]

In the late 60's a movement started that became known as the “Free Love” movement or “Hippy” movement. As this stupid movement

Amen. Fornication has given us a large number of single-parent families, stds, and lots of hidden expenses. Our education system is weighed down with social ills, our tax burdens are higher, our workforce is less able, and, quite frankly, we are losing our leadership status in the world. It's not about the government being in people's bedrooms, it's about people being irresponsible in their bedrooms and then expecting society to pick up the slack.

1. Six days shalt thou labor and do thy work and rest on the 7th day. If someone is a full time minister for the L-rd what six days do they do their work and what day is the day of rest? I do not post this to be critical but if this principle is not understood one will not be able to utilize the L-rd’s method of providing for their family.

Most ministers work six days, and rest on Mondays.

2. Learn the secret, joy and benefit of hard work. Learn to enjoy work, learn to love work and wish for work more than money - for both you and your children. Money does not provide what the L-rd expects to be provided by a man for his family but work does. It is the first commandment given to man being sent from Eden.

I totally agree with this. We settle for jobs that pay the bills, and are miserable for at least a 3rd of our lives. In addition, the other 2/3rds gets distorted. Far better to work longer hours for less pay, but do something that is fulfilling and meaningful.

[shanstress70]

Lucky7,

I have to believe you're kidding about all this... but who knows? It's easy for a man to say all of that stuff. I happen to be a woman with a successful career, and I have to say that I do the mothering thing wonderfully, as that will always be my top priority. Since my co. allows me to work whatever hours I wish, I go in super-early so I can get off around 3:00 to go pick him up.

His father was a SAHD for the first 3 years of his life, as he lost his job when I was pregnant. We planned to do it the other way around, but it just worked out best this way. Now he's in a wonderful daycare from about 10 till 3, which I think is a perfect amount of time.

Life is good.

As far as PC's question about whether career women are looked at unfavorably in the LDS church, I have to say that in my experience, this was the case. I happen to live in quite a weatlhy area, and most of the women in my ward were able to stay home in their half million dollar homes. Because I worked as a member, and Gosh Forbid I didn't have a baby until I was over 30, I always felt I was on the outside looking in. When my husband stayed home with our child, we would always get the rudest comments like, "We've got to help DH get a job so we can turn this around like it's supposed to be." Did they ever think that we were OK with it this way, since I was set climb the ladder at my company and he'd be starting from scratch somewhere? We were fine with it... they were not!

And Outhshined, I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm sure that it's more acceptable in some places than others.

[Lindy]

Winnie you had some great things to say in defense of womankind :)

Luckysleven.... your right... it is increasingly difficult to raise a family on one salary alone amist the rising cost of living with no cost of living increases. From every ward I have been too, everything I have heard the church DOES encourage the mother to be there for the children at home... IF POSSIBLE... if life circumstances will allow it.

I guess it really is the choice of the husband and wife what is important to them, for those who struggle to make ends meet from paycheck to paycheck... it's up to them if they want to cut down to the bare bones of living to have an at home mom at all times. And in my eyes, if it is something agreed upon, it is something they will learn to deal with and acheive thru sacrifice.

I agree that mothers need to be home for their children as much as possible.... for those in a traditional family (both parents) woman have a choice to add to the family income without sacrificing that precious time just being a presence in the home for the children. It takes thought and will power but it can be done. Some mothers just take part time jobs....working minimum hours a week to spend maximum time at home with the children. Those who do work fulltime..... usually have to. And I'm sure that they understand the sacrifice of time given up for the children for them to have to work.... and it doesn't make them feel good about it, but they can give as much quality time at home as they can.

In this day and age of escalating costs of EVERYTHING.... it is nearly impossible for some families to make it without that second income. I'm sure that LDS mothers are doing their best to help out the family income without sacrificing their childrens best interest. (non LDS mothers too....but this was a thread about LDS mothers in the work force I think).

What about those called for church duties that take the mother (or father) out of the home for meetings and such? Is that part of satans subtle plan to get us to break God's laws? That can be very taxing on a marriage with all time spent away from home with varies callings...but I am sure that families don't see that as a temptation of doing something wrong. Most see it as service, and part of their responsibility as members of the church.... and they learn to deal with the extra time away from home. It IS a sacrifice.... but it is a duty...and they just make it work. A married couple just needs to communicate and work together to acheive what they believe in, what they want to achieve...and goals they want to reach together.

My honest opinion,

Lindy

[shanstress70]

If I may be so bold, would you guys please not hold this opinion against me, or take it to heart?

I have read of the problems with depression in LDS women. (For the record, I will state that I have also read conflicting studies that say LDS women are no more depressed than women of other faiths.) I have a theory about LDS women suffer from depression more often than others (and yes I believe they do, as I have seen it firsthand).

Not all women are happy staying home full-time raising children. And I know that a lot of you men AND women think it sounds terribly selfish, but IMO children are happier and better adjusted when their mothers are happy and fulfilled. I think that a lot of LDS women feel pressured into staying home because that's what is expected of them. And yes, I know that a lot of them do it because they really want to, but I'm talking about the others who won't admit it, but really would like to have a career.

And it can be done without keeping their children in daycare 12 hours a day... I know because I am one of those succeeding at it. My child is in daycare 5 - 6 hours a day and loves it. And I will say with 100% certainty that I love my child just as much as anyone here! I have a lot of time to spend with him (4:00 till 9:30 each day), and I appreciate that time and make the most of it. And our weekends are always full of fun stuff.

Just keep in mind that not every woman is happy having lots of kids and staying home 100% of the time! Not much is being said in this thread about the well-being of women. And although most women (myself included) put the happiness and comfort of others first, We deserve to be happy too.

[luckynumbersleven]

i'm open to all these opionions btw, but this is the line i have been fed in teacher's class, priest's class, elder's quorum, by my mission president, and even now when i sit down w/ the bishop!

i actually resent being told that as a man and priesthood holder that i have a duty to support my family in a way a woman doesn't - but that while the woman now has a choice whether to stay at home and be w/ the kids or go into the workplace, i don't - and you just know that no matter how dissaproving some members can be of working mothers, it's a slamdunk that i'd be dissaproved of if my wife worked and i just put in parttime or decided i just didn't want to work - what about choosing to stay single the rest of my life, working parttime, and having no dependents so as to make my life comfortable?

as for the LDS church's official position? it's funny how once-former clear mandates like women staying at home, no birth control, marital bedroom privacy etc etc are all now subject to interpretation, but god forbid if i wear jeans and a t shirt w/ no garments on a hot sunday to church!! (which i often do btw), noone seems to be disputing the latter - why not? i do. i don't believe it's OFFICIAL that i need to always wear a suit to church, and how is one's clothing even as close in importance to things like motherhood, fatherhood etc?

perhaps i was playing devil's advocacte somewhat - but i think the church needs social reforming bigtime - i believe that most everything in our lives should be the result of our personal choice w/out having to expect comments or directions from church leaders - the church should stick to basics i.e., no murder, no adultery, no fornication (woops!), and much of the remainder (woman going to work, birth control, how to dress on sunday, what rated movies you see etc) should be a private choice of the individual.

[shanstress70]

i'm open to all these opionions btw, but this is the line i have been fed in teacher's class, priest's class, elder's quorum, by my mission president, and even now when i sit down w/ the bishop!

i actually resent being told that as a man and priesthood holder that i have a duty to support my family in a way a woman doesn't - but that while the woman now has a choice whether to stay at home and be w/ the kids or go into the workplace, i don't - and you just know that no matter how dissaproving some members can be of working mothers, it's a slamdunk that i'd be dissaproved of if my wife worked and i just put in parttime or decided i just didn't want to work - what about choosing to stay single the rest of my life, working parttime, and having no dependents so as to make my life comfortable?

as for the LDS church's official position? it's funny how once-former clear mandates like women staying at home, no birth control, marital bedroom privacy etc etc are all now subject to interpretation, but god forbid if i wear jeans and a t shirt w/ no garments on a hot sunday to church!! (which i often do btw), noone seems to be disputing the latter - why not? i do. i don't believe it's OFFICIAL that i need to always wear a suit to church, and how is one's clothing even as close in importance to things like motherhood, fatherhood etc?

perhaps i was playing devil's advocacte somewhat - but i think the church needs social reforming bigtime - i believe that most everything in our lives should be the result of our personal choice w/out having to expect comments or directions from church leaders - the church should stick to basics i.e., no murder, no adultery, no fornication (woops!), and much of the remainder (woman going to work, birth control, how to dress on sunday, what rated movies you see etc) should be a private choice of the individual.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. Perhaps the problem is that it is no business of a church how someone wishes to live their lives. I don't understand why people are OK with that!

[Winnie G]

Lucky number 7

(as for the LDS church's official position? it's funny how once-former clear mandates like women staying at home, no birth control, marital bedroom privacy etc etc are all now subject to interpretation,)

I don’t know were you attend church, but the interpretation of this mandate you call it is not interpretation but the use of common sense.

All things must and have always been common sense not a mandate.

Like my life for instance do to economics I have always worked up till now, I’m retired.

I also raised four children at the same time, and been divorced.

As for a official position that went out with the old thinkers. Even president Kimball told the men of the church to have restraint and not to burden their wife’s with more then they could handle.

As fare as

(god forbid if i wear jeans and a t shirt w/ no garments on a hot sunday to church)

Again I wonder were you go to church, but my husband and many of the priesthood wear short sleeve white shirts and summer dress pants on hot summer days. Again, this is common sense not a mandate.

Of course, if you were to officiate at a priesthood ordnance of some importance then yes you would show the Lord respect by dressing appropriate.

I never had to tell my youngest son what to wear to visit and administer the sacrament to someone ill or dieing in the hospital even on a hot day.

It has been asked of a church leader when asked “if one cup of coffee would not keep someone out of heaven” he said “no the coffee would not but the disobedience of a commandment would”.

When you entered the Temple, I assume you did since you wear garments, you willingly made that covenant to wear those garments did you not? Then I think you understand that importance of keeping that commandment and the consequences of disobedience?

I have a skin condition that courses me to brake out in hives when over heated (perspiration) or espouser to the sun. Swimming in the ocean is a ambulance ride. I can say I understand your reasoning for no garments on a hot day, but I have been blessed by obedience to my covenants, yes it has meant staying out of the sun, witch we all should do. I also choose cotton garments over dry silk and when the weather is extremely hot I change and shower often. Like I do when I visit Nauvoo during the summer.

You seem to choose disobedience for comfort.

When comfort is a matter of were and when you choose to sweat.

As fare as the church needs social reform again I ask were do you go to church and how long have you been a member?

I have seen change, but you must remember that the commandments have always been the same as the Lord has remand the same.

(The church should stick to basics i.e., no murder, no adultery, no fornication (woops!), and much of the remainder (woman going to work, birth control, how to dress on sunday, what rated movies you see etc) should be a private choice of the individual.)

All commandments from the Lord have been the privet choice of each individual, though free will.

To choose disobedience or blessings, is up to you. :)

[kymmy]

it is called

free to choose

but are'nt we lucky

to have the church to guide

a wonderful prophet

to give us direction

i have heard the womens movement is no good.

in part i agree and disagree

i am old fashioned

i believe my husband should work so i can

care for our children

at the same time i am happy my husband

spends time interacting with his kids

and he helps around the house

kids come first

[Bob_oz]

Lucky number 7

(as for the LDS church's official position? it's funny how once-former clear mandates like women staying at home, no birth control, marital bedroom privacy etc etc are all now subject to interpretation,)

I don’t know were you attend church, but the interpretation of this mandate you call it is not interpretation but the use of common sense.

All things must and have always been common sense not a mandate.

Like my life for instance do to economics I have always worked up till now, I’m retired.

I also raised four children at the same time, and been divorced.

As for a official position that went out with the old thinkers. Even president Kimball told the men of the church to have restraint and not to burden their wife’s with more then they could handle.

As fare as

(god forbid if i wear jeans and a t shirt w/ no garments on a hot sunday to church)

Again I wonder were you go to church, but my husband and many of the priesthood wear short sleeve white shirts and summer dress pants on hot summer days. Again, this is common sense not a mandate.

Of course, if you were to officiate at a priesthood ordnance of some importance then yes you would show the Lord respect by dressing appropriate.

I never had to tell my youngest son what to wear to visit and administer the sacrament to someone ill or dieing in the hospital even on a hot day.

It has been asked of a church leader when asked “if one cup of coffee would not keep someone out of heaven” he said “no the coffee would not but the disobedience of a commandment would”.

When you entered the Temple, I assume you did since you wear garments, you willingly made that covenant to wear those garments did you not? Then I think you understand that importance of keeping that commandment and the consequences of disobedience?

I have a skin condition that courses me to brake out in hives when over heated (perspiration) or espouser to the sun. Swimming in the ocean is a ambulance ride. I can say I understand your reasoning for no garments on a hot day, but I have been blessed by obedience to my covenants, yes it has meant staying out of the sun, witch we all should do. I also choose cotton garments over dry silk and when the weather is extremely hot I change and shower often. Like I do when I visit Nauvoo during the summer.

You seem to choose disobedience for comfort.

When comfort is a matter of were and when you choose to sweat.

As fare as the church needs social reform again I ask were do you go to church and how long have you been a member?

I have seen change, but you must remember that the commandments have always been the same as the Lord has remand the same.

(The church should stick to basics i.e., no murder, no adultery, no fornication (woops!), and much of the remainder (woman going to work, birth control, how to dress on sunday, what rated movies you see etc) should be a private choice of the individual.)

All commandments from the Lord have been the privet choice of each individual, though free will.

To choose disobedience or blessings, is up to you. :)

[Bob_oz]

Outstanding comment Winnie,

I find it fascinating that when we don't like something we say the Church should not comment, yet we go to church to to be closer to God (well I assume we do!) The comment Church leaders make are based on the commandments we say we follow, some comment is a don't do this, murder for example, or we recommend, like in the issue of working wife's, in the end its down to choice. With the choice comes blessings. Some times we just have to be obedient.

My wife and I decided with our first child that she would stay home and support the family as a home maker, 6 children and 20 years later she re-entered the workforce, at first part time and later full time to pick up her career which she has shined in.

3 years ago I had a cardiac arrest while at work and my wife came real close to being greatly blessed for being back in the workforce and able to support herself.

We (yes I repeat its WE) have always made decisions based on gospel teachings, our covenants, and fasting and prayer, we sometimes didn't understand the way we had to go but in time we knew it was right.

OK, last point, why do Church leaders in all positions make comments, suggestions etc where some say they should just be quiet .......... because they/we care .... they are plenty of people out there who say nothing!

Have a great day

Bob

[Snow]

I have read of the problems with depression in LDS women. (For the record, I will state that I have also read conflicting studies that say LDS women are no more depressed than women of other faiths.)

I have never read any studies that indicate LDS women suffer from more depression than their non-LDS counterparts. Could you please direct me to what you have read?

[Lindy]

If I may be so bold, would you guys please not hold this opinion against me, or take it to heart?

........We deserve to be happy too.

Shan~ I'm always glad to read your posts :) your opinion is just as important as mine is to me.... I agree that woman do deserve to be happy too... and sometimes meeting the hubby at the door with a glass of whatever and a "how was your day" like they used to.... just doesn't cut it now. Many women were miserable back then cause no one took them seriously... society told them what they "should" be. At least now we have the choice of what we "would like to be".

The church should stick to basics i.e., no murder, no adultery, no fornication (woops!), and much of the remainder (woman going to work, birth control, how to dress on sunday, what rated movies you see etc) should be a private choice of the individual.

Well lucky... I guess that is one of the big reasons we have a prophet... TO GUIDE us.... not dictate us. I have never been told I COULDN"T watch an R-rated movie... never been told if I COULD work or not... never been told if I COULD use birth control or not.... EVER! It has always been my private choice of what I do or dont' do. Bob had a great comment with

OK, last point, why do Church leaders in all positions make comments, suggestions etc where some say they should just be quiet .......... because they/we care .... they are plenty of people out there who say nothing!

Because they care that is a very good word. It actually means something to me.....Winnie... Supa K.. great additional comments!

[shanstress70]

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I have read of the problems with depression in LDS women. (For the record, I will state that I have also read conflicting studies that say LDS women are no more depressed than women of other faiths.)

I have never read any studies that indicate LDS women suffer from more depression than their non-LDS counterparts. Could you please direct me to what you have read?

You're right Snow, I was wrong about the studies saying that LDS women are more depressed than non-LDS women. However, I have read articles about it. I have, however, read a study saying that Utahns are prescribed antidepressants more than any other state. With Utah being about 70% LDS, I feel safe drawing the conclusion that I did.

Here is an interesting article that I came across.

My point is that some women are not cut out for staying home taking care of children all day every day. In the LDS church, there is so much pressure to do this. If you are one of those women who are not fulfilled doing this, it can be tough to feel OK about yourself and your decision... at least it was for me! The easiest thing to do is just ###### it up, stay home, and pretend to be happy. The pills come next.

And once again I would like to say that I know many women (LDS and non) who are very happy staying home taking care of their children. This doesn't work for all women though.

Perhaps for me, it was the way I was raised... my single mom raised my brother and I while my dad got started on a new life with a younger woman. He paid measely child support. My mom was superwoman by necessity. "Never trust a man, blah blah blah..." is something I heard a lot. Yes, I got over some of that when I met my awesome husband, but deep down I'm probably reluctant to completely depend on a man. I find the most happiness at home with my husband and child, but I also derive great pleasure from my career.

[Ray]

I feel and believe the greatest work a woman can do is the work she can do within and for her home, and that no other amount of success in any other area can compensate for failing to do better doing that.

And I also love the fact that my wife loves doing that type of work, while not feeling like she is “missing out” on doing something else she could choose or could have chosen to do with her time, also believing that our lives and the lives of our children are as happy as they are because of her.

And btw, in case anyone thinks being a homemaker is a piece of cake, or not as good as any other career option she could have made, I’ll give you a sample of some things that she does and continues to do for our home.

1) Keeping the house clean and decorating on occasions (and yes I do help as I can)

2) Maintaining the landscape and tending the gardens (and yes I do help as I can)

3) Doing the laundry and putting away the clothes (and yes I do help as I can)

4) Doing the shopping and paying the bills (and yes I do help as I can)

5) Tending the children and running the errands (and yes I do help as I can)

6) Cooking and baking some good foods to eat (and yes I do help as I can)

7) Setting the table and cleaning the dishes (and yes I do help as I can)

8) Always being home when family comes home (and yes I do help as I can)

9) Studying the scriptures and sharing her knowledge (and yes I do help as I can)

10) Always being supportive while listening to others (and yes I do help as I can)

… and I’m sure I’m probably leaving some things out

And btw, my wife is also talented with the ability to draw and paint all kinds of things with all kinds of paint and “art” supplies, and we have sold a lot of her art through some craft stores, but the greatest blessings we receive from all she does is from all that she does for our home (and yes I do help as I can).

[shanstress70]

I feel and believe the greatest work a woman can do is the work she can do within and for her home, and that no other amount of success in any other area can compensate for failing to do better doing that.

And I also love the fact that my wife loves doing that type of work, while not feeling like she is “missing out” on doing something else she could choose or could have chosen to do with her time, also believing that our lives and the lives of our children are as happy as they are because of her.

And btw, in case anyone thinks being a homemaker is a piece of cake, or not as good as any other career option she could have made, I’ll give you a sample of some things that she does and continues to do for our home.

1) Keeping the house clean and decorating on occasions (and yes I do help as I can)

2) Maintaining the landscape and tending the gardens (and yes I do help as I can)

3) Doing the laundry and putting away the clothes (and yes I do help as I can)

4) Doing the shopping and paying the bills (and yes I do help as I can)

5) Tending the children and running the errands (and yes I do help as I can)

6) Cooking and baking some good foods to eat (and yes I do help as I can)

7) Setting the table and cleaning the dishes (and yes I do help as I can)

8) Always being home when family comes home (and yes I do help as I can)

9) Studying the scriptures and sharing her knowledge (and yes I do help as I can)

10) Always being supportive while listening to others (and yes I do help as I can)

… and I’m sure I’m probably leaving some things out

And btw, my wife is also talented with the ability to draw and paint all kinds of things with all kinds of paint and “art” supplies, and we have sold a lot of her art through some craft stores, but the greatest blessings we receive from all she does is from all that she does for our home (and yes I do help as I can).

Of course you believe that, Ray. Most LDS men do. I'm talking about what women want and need. And yes, I know that some women are happy with this, as I said before, but if a woman isn't happy doing those things I'm not sure she would come forward and say so.

And I for one KNOW that being a homemaker is no piece of cake.

Diff'rent strokes...

[Ray]

<div class='quotemain'>

I feel and believe the greatest work a woman can do is the work she can do within and for her home, and that no other amount of success in any other area can compensate for failing to do better doing that.

And I also love the fact that my wife loves doing that type of work, while not feeling like she is “missing out” on doing something else she could choose or could have chosen to do with her time, also believing that our lives and the lives of our children are as happy as they are because of her.

And btw, in case anyone thinks being a homemaker is a piece of cake, or not as good as any other career option she could have made, I’ll give you a sample of some things that she does and continues to do for our home.

1) Keeping the house clean and decorating on occasions (and yes I do help as I can)

2) Maintaining the landscape and tending the gardens (and yes I do help as I can)

3) Doing the laundry and putting away the clothes (and yes I do help as I can)

4) Doing the shopping and paying the bills (and yes I do help as I can)

5) Tending the children and running the errands (and yes I do help as I can)

6) Cooking and baking some good foods to eat (and yes I do help as I can)

7) Setting the table and cleaning the dishes (and yes I do help as I can)

8) Always being home when family comes home (and yes I do help as I can)

9) Studying the scriptures and sharing her knowledge (and yes I do help as I can)

10) Always being supportive while listening to others (and yes I do help as I can)

… and I’m sure I’m probably leaving some things out

And btw, my wife is also talented with the ability to draw and paint all kinds of things with all kinds of paint and “art” supplies, and we have sold a lot of her art through some craft stores, but the greatest blessings we receive from all she does is from all that she does for our home (and yes I do help as I can).

Of course you believe that, Ray. Most LDS men do. I'm talking about what women want and need. And yes, I know that some women are happy with this, as I said before, but if a woman isn't happy doing those things I'm not sure she would come forward and say so.

And I for one KNOW that being a homemaker is no piece of cake.

Diff'rent strokes...

Heh, well, I also feel and believe that all of us, including women, should be doing what our Lord and heavenly Father want us to do, not what some uf us, including women, feel we want and need.

Or in other words, which would you rather be and become, out of all the choices you have:

A wife and mother who devotes all of her life to home and family, without any other career.

OR

A wife and mother who devotes some of her life to home and family, while having another career.

And btw, just in case you might want to ask me about the same thing in my role as a man, I will say that if neither me nor my wife had to work outside the home to provide for the things we want and need, I would also choose to be with my wife instead of anywhere else... unless my Lord or heavenly Father had other work for me to do and they sent me out to do Their work away from my home and family.

[shanstress70]

Or in other words, which would you rather be and become, out of all the choices you have:

A wife and mother who devotes all of her life to home and family, without any other career.

OR

A wife and mother who devotes some of her life to home and family, while having another career.

Well, I've already answered this above, but my choice would be #2. If I chose #1, I could do a great job, but not AS good as if I had a career. (There is something to be said for mental health.) Having a successful career makes me feel better about myself and more capable as a mother. And working only till 3, I feel that I get the better part of the day to spend with him.

My devotion is to my child though... not my home. Although I do my share, my husband can and does help, and those who specialize in that field help as well. (I don't get any fulfillment from cleaning!)

I'm pretty sure that God is pleased with my decision, and frankly, that's what matters to me.

And as far as a child being better off at home than in a daycare, I don't believe that. Yes, I do believe that for the 2 or 3 years it is good for a baby to be home with mom (or dad), as not surprisingly we decided to do for my child... he was home with dad until about age 3. But around 3 or 4 I think it is helpful for them to be with other kids in a learning environment. I also know that many here disagree with this, and that is great, as we're all entitled to our opinions.