Literal sense or symbolic sense of the scriptures

[imanuelga]

Hello all,

Should the scriptures be read litteraly or symbolically ?

Il both, the literal sense is it always agree with the symbolic one ?

You are free to give your opinion, but be carefull... May be, my conclusions are like a sharp sword...

[slamjet]

You are free to give your opinion, but be carefull... May be, my conclusions are like a sharp sword...

Then why should we give any opinions since you already have your conclusion that you deem the only correct answer and the tone gives the impression that you are not here for a give and take discussion, but to shout down those who dare to have an opposing view?

[MarginOfError]

Hello all,

Should the scriptures be read litteraly or symbolically ?

Yes.

Il both, the literal sense is it always agree with the symbolic one ?

Depends on the context

You are free to give your opinion, but be carefull... May be, my conclusions are like a sharp sword...

Thems fightin' words

[john doe]

Let's be mindful of the site rules. Sounds to me like you have your mind made up already. Trolling for people to slap down will not be allowed.

[LDSChristian]

Hello all,

Should the scriptures be read litteraly or symbolically ?

Il both, the literal sense is it always agree with the symbolic one ?

You are free to give your opinion, but be carefull... May be, my conclusions are like a sharp sword...

Both. Take the parables for example. They are definitely symbolic. Then you have scriptures about Christ's birth. That's to be taken literally. It's easy to tell what is symbolic and what is literal.

[MarginOfError]

Both. Take the parables for example. They are definitely symbolic. Then you have scriptures about Christ's birth. That's to be taken literally. It's easy to tell what is symbolic and what is literal.

You mean like Noah's flood?

[HiJolly]

You mean like Noah's flood?

Trouble maker.

I take most of the important stuff as symbolic. Like the flood, that's a good example. I think it would be easier for us to understand this if we were expert anthropologists of the times from whence the scriptures come.

HiJolly

[prophetofdoom]

Spiritually. There are types, symbols and literal events. Sometimes, an event can be both symbolic and literal at the same time. IMHO, there may be some events in the scriptures that didn't literally take place, but, they serve as narratives to teach us spiritual truths.

[LDSVALLEY]

I might add that we have to remember to keep things in context both to the section and to the times that things were written in. Words can have different meanings over the years.

Also that the Bible, no matter which version you use, is often the interpreted version by man with many references.

And our perspective is worldly not heavenly so we are forced to try and understand or interpret from a narrower scope then the heavenly perspective would allow.

I tend to apply Logic when deciding how to take something. Is what I am reading and understanding in line with a loving eternal Heavenly Father who takes the very long view of things?

Learning in Sunday School, seminary etc. Listening to the Leaders and such, help with understanding.

Last but far from least, if I am not sure, I pray.

[imanuelga]

Thank for all of your contributions, guys !

We use to say that the scripture are "true". But in what sense?

If it is in any one of this sense, saying that they are true is true...

But, really what sense is the most important?

The only one who can help us understand really our God, is, of course, the symbolic.

Because it is said :

Proverbes 25:2 ¶It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

So, if we read the scriptures searching to be sure that the events really occured, aren't we trying to look for proof ? Instead or using our faith to understand what is behind the story.

What do you think of this?

[imanuelga]

Then why should we give any opinions since you already have your conclusion that you deem the only correct answer and the tone gives the impression that you are not here for a give and take discussion, but to shout down those who dare to have an opposing view?

conclusions was not the good term : better may be I should have used : "thoughts"

Your are right and you are wrong : I don't want to shoot anybody. But It is true I do not affraid to have my own opinions even if they are not the standart ones.

Is it possible to express them here, if with courtesy ?

If you think I am in a fighting spirit, may be you can explain me what these words of the lord mean :

Matthieu 10:34 *Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

[slamjet]

Matthieu 10:34 *Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Yea, this helps. Not.

Look, you essential said, What's your opinion and ended by saying regardless of your opinion, you're wrong.

And now you're here speaking out of both sides of your mouth again. You saying on one side, I welcome your thoughts and opinions, and with the other side you're saying, but regardless of your opinion, I've come to set you straight because I come with the sword of truth.

Well, all that does is diminish your standing. It tells us that you are no respector of other peoples thoughts, ideas, opinion and experiences since you fancy yourself as the holder of all truth. This really turns me off because the quest for truth is a life-long quest. It is the journey that is shared that enriches our understanding. Not the solo-trip and beating down those with contrary views.

So yes, there is a lot of room for courteous banter. If you want to share, share, but without the pompous pronouncement of your pride and self importance. Tell us what you think, what you feel is correct and stay away from all this "I am the vanguard of righteous truth, hear me and fear me." Otherwise, you risk being dismissed as one who is not worth listening to.

[Dravin]

Matthieu 10:34 *Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

It's means that the saints aren't going to have a peaceful little existance with no conflict. Keep in mind the following verse talks about the gospel causing separation in families. It's not an invitation to be belligerent or hostile in the presentation of the Gospel.

Christ also said these words:

For verily, verily I say unto you, he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another.

There are also the words of Alma that are applicable:

Use boldness, but not overbearance; and also see that ye bridle all your passions, that ye may be filled with love; see that ye refrain from idleness.

Is it possible to express them here, if with courtesy ?

If you want to be courteous and examine others views and discuss them you are certainly welcome to do so. Your warning however comes across as someone who is rearing for a fight against anyone who doesn't hold the same conclusion as you and that you'll 'put them in their place'. If that's not the case no worries.

Edited February 21, 2011 by Dravin

[jayanna]

IMO the scriptures being taken literally or symbolically depends on both the record you are reading, and on your spiritual needs at the time..

To all things there is a season

For example...the burning bush that Moses saw while recieving his calling...I have always taken it literally, there was a bush, it was on fire, it got his attention...so on, so forth

But the bush was not consumed, so when I read that same thing later, I understood that our callings that carry great responsibility are not meant to consume us, we are still us, just greater in a way we could not imagine before, because of the service we are doing.

Literal things can have a symbolic meaning, and oftentimes do, we just aren't aware of it at the time.

The most important things for reading the scriptures is to have the Holy Spirit and listen, rather than look for some scripture that verifies your own belief or current concern, be ready to be educated, be cheerful and of good heart, have a mind single to the glory of God and making yourself more like the Savior, and you can't go wrong.

[mrmarklin]

Hello all,

Should the scriptures be read litteraly or symbolically ?

Il both, the literal sense is it always agree with the symbolic one ?

You are free to give your opinion, but be carefull... May be, my conclusions are like a sharp sword...

I would say it depends.............................................

[Wingnut]

Uh, guys? The OP's location is France. Perhaps we're being a bit harsh in response to what may simply be a translation issue?

[imanuelga]

Uh, guys? The OP's location is France. Perhaps we're being a bit harsh in response to what may simply be a translation issue?

Thank you.

It is true I am french and the English is not easy for me and it is true too : I use also google traductions !

But any way :

I believe the scripture have a symbolic meaning.

For example : the term sword is often used in scripture, even the lord use it saying that :

Apocalypse 1:16 *And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

If we just say that the explain that the true believer will have not an easy life is not in the symbolic meaning. This is litteral. Even, if this litteral is also true. But I beleave it is more a consequence of the spiritual meaning.

Some where even in church teachings, it is explain that the sword represent the word of god who can separate the thuth from the false.

The word sword in Matthieu 10:34 is still in this sense in my opinion.

But I agree I should not have used it in this contexte to argue with anyone. So I apologize if I heart anyone.

But these words of the lord are in my opinion near in the sense with these ones :

Matthieu 10:39 *He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

Luc 18:25 *For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Of course, may be these scripture are true in the literal sense... but they are true because they are true in the symbolic too.

What is the symbolic sense?

of what kind of richness was he rich ? Just material?

You know: I believe we work more or less as in science : we do not go forward because of the truth we have, but because of the falsities we unterstand to be wrong.

If I am here in this forum is because I have been a member for more than 20 years, and I love the members, but it is also true, I don't beleave any more that the leader always says true doctrines, even Joseph Smith.... But I don't want to speak of what separate us.

I want to share and listen what are those symbolic sense.

If people wants to speak only of the literal, I am not interested.

Humbly yours,

[Blackmarch]

Hello all,

Should the scriptures be read litteraly or symbolically ?

Il both, the literal sense is it always agree with the symbolic one ?

You are free to give your opinion, but be carefull... May be, my conclusions are like a sharp sword...

I think one has to read it both ways. altho there are obviously some parts which are not literal, and others that are certainly not as symbolic as others.

But God rarely does something that is not symbolic in some manner or the other.

[MarginOfError]

It is true I am french and the English is not easy for me and it is true too : I use also google traductions !

And Google has a sense of humor, too!

[Traveler]

Scriptures are to be understood and interperted spiritually - which has a very different requirement from literal of symbolic.

The Traveler

[imanuelga]

Scriptures are to be understood and interperted spiritually - which has a very different requirement from literal of symbolic.

The Traveler

I am not sure to undestand that you mean.

My post wanted to point out that there is more in the scripture than the literal sense.

The real sense is hidden. And it is spiritualy than we can reach this sense. As it is written :

1 Corinthiens 2:14 *But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15 *But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

So I would like to draw attention to the fact that stay only in the litteral is an error.

Why the word is Hidden?

Of course I have my idea.

I think it is to help us to humiliate ourself and to make effort to know our god.

If we are "poor" and reconize we are poor, we can ask for the lord help. If we are rich (or we believe we are), not :

Proverbes 28:11 *¶The rich man is wise in his own conceit; but the poor that hath understanding searcheth him out.

Apocalypse 3:17 *Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

And in this scriptures, the words "miserable", "poor", "blind", "naked", are they to be understood litteraly ? or do they represent symbolicly a state of a soul?

Of course they are symbolic.

Friendly yours,

[LDSVALLEY]

I am not sure to undestand that you mean.

My post wanted to point out that there is more in the scripture than the literal sense.

The real sense is hidden. And it is spiritualy than we can reach this sense. As it is written :

1 Corinthiens 2:14 *But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15 *But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

So I would like to draw attention to the fact that stay only in the litteral is an error.

Why the word is Hidden?

Of course I have my idea.

I think it is to help us to humiliate ourself and to make effort to know our god.

Not sure I follow your line of thinking. I believe the scripture quote you gave was the answer to your question.

If you don't believe in God but in man then you will define everything within the narrow confines of natural man. You will never have the perceptiveness to go beyond the horizon of what can be seen or rationalized.

If you are of the Spirit then you can see beyond that restriction. It is not a secret nor is it hard. Nor do I believe the word is hidden, but you have to be willing to look for the 'word' and to take it in the context intended which is a wider then Earthly outlook.

God has not hidden anything from us in the scriptures it is the method of viewing and interpreting we choose that puts the blinders on keeps them off.

[imanuelga]

Not sure I follow your line of thinking. .......

God has not hidden anything from us in the scriptures it is the method of viewing and interpreting we choose that puts the blinders on keeps them off.

Thanks for your answer. I respect it.

And you point really well on what we disagree! That is nice!

Effectively, the sense of the scripture is not hidden for this who is spiritual.

But we are men, human, and natural.

And the two men have a different "perception".

When a natural man hears the word "blind", he thinks on the natural eyes. When a spiritual man hears the same word he thinks in the state of a soul who can't see the spiritual (who is in incredulity etc).

For exemple, in the book of mormon, when we read the travell of Lehi and his family in the desert and the use of the liahona....(I take an exemple in the book of mormon respectuously ) At first, it could be read as an historical account...

But even Alma in Alma:36 or 37, said that this never end to have a symbolical meaning.

And explain that it represent our live in the desert driven by our faith depending on our diligence...

So the natural see only historical, natural account.... But I believe there is much more in the word of God.

I Believe there is no single natural word that have not a spiritual correspondance (who is not a symbol of this spiritual).

To have acces to this sense, we have to pray, to ask ("ask and you shall receive") be humble etc...

So it is the reason the thruth is "hidden" as I have already mentionned:

Proverbes 25:2 *¶It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

respectly yours,

[imanuelga]

And Google has a sense of humor, too!

Yes

[Seminarysnoozer]

I am not sure to undestand that you mean.

My post wanted to point out that there is more in the scripture than the literal sense.

The real sense is hidden. And it is spiritualy than we can reach this sense. As it is written :

1 Corinthiens 2:14 *But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15 *But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

So I would like to draw attention to the fact that stay only in the litteral is an error.

Why the word is Hidden?

Of course I have my idea.

I think it is to help us to humiliate ourself and to make effort to know our god.

If we are "poor" and reconize we are poor, we can ask for the lord help. If we are rich (or we believe we are), not :

Proverbes 28:11 *¶The rich man is wise in his own conceit; but the poor that hath understanding searcheth him out.

Apocalypse 3:17 *Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

And in this scriptures, the words "miserable", "poor", "blind", "naked", are they to be understood litteraly ? or do they represent symbolicly a state of a soul?

Of course they are symbolic.

Friendly yours,

I think those words represent the passions of the body. We are dual beings, both body and spirit. To be spiritual means to not let the body drive your passions but to keep the spirit in charge of one's actions. We need a body, it is important for our eternal happiness. We need to learn how to overcome the natural drives and tendencies of this body though and not let it control us. To be "miserable" "poor" "blind" and "naked" are symbolic representations of when we leave carnal passions to follow spiritual passions. We could even throw in "hungry" and "thirsty". It makes me think of breaking a wild horse, to bridle our passions. Like Alma said, "“See that ye bridle all your passions, that ye may be filled with love.”

Our test is to see what our soul delights in more, things that are carnal or things that are spiritual. If we don't actively seek out spiritual passions the default is to become carnal in nature. So, we are constantly fighting that battle to not slip into that carnal state. Those words remind us of that constant battle, to endure to the end.

To understand the scriptures in it's fullness one requires a spiritually guided soul. Those that still have the carnal state as the lead will interpret the scriptures with that level of understanding.