Mormons and the illuminati ?

[lizzy16]

So, I heard this rumor about the Illuminati and the LDS church.

Should I avoid looking into this? I don't want to find out anything temple related until I'm ready.

[prophetofdoom]

There are no links between the Illuminati and the Church. Satan does have counterfeits out there though.

[lizzy16]

There are no links between the Illuminati and the Church. Satan does have counterfeits out there though.

when you say counterfeits would it be appropriate to say modern day Gadiantion Robbers?

[prophetofdoom]

I, personally believe, that there are modern day Gadianton Robbers (though they probably don't call themselves such). Just as the Gadianton Robbers took over the government, bought off judges, planned secret assassinations, and committed all types of crimes.. so there are groups that do that today. Just as the Lord has set up his church and appointed prophets, seers, and revelators to lead the church under Jesus Christ...Satan also has his counter organizations. This is my belief though and not an official doctrine of the church.

[slamjet]

Yea, there are Gadianton Robbers, it's called Congress

Just keep yourself clean, close to the Church and the Lord and be careful in all your dealings. You will be fine.

[Iggy]

Yea, there are Gadianton Robbers, it's called Congress

Just keep yourself clean, close to the Church and the Lord and be careful in all your dealings. You will be fine.

Personally I think the Moose Lodge, Elks Lodge, etc qualify too.

Lizzy, my husband has researched out the Illuminati, before and during which, he made sure to keep the spirit with him. He stopped often and prayed. He would double check things using his standard works.

He also printed off things for me to read. I would scan it, but the spirit told me not to read in depth. I got a roiling in my gut- and felt like I was touching filth, spiritual filth. This I explained to my husband, and he didn't feel that I was being childish or over zealous. He also rightly assumed that I was not telling him NOT to read/research this.

I was concerned that he was allowing himself to be open to Satan's minions. When he assured me that he was praying, and keeping the Holy Spirit close, then I left him to his research.

I am not telling you NOT to research this out. Just to do so carefully. Keep the Holy Spirit with you, pray for council and for protection. Heed the Holy Spirit. This may not be the right time for you to study about the Illuminati- perhaps later in your life it will be.

For Your Information my husband was 67 years old when he did his research.

[NeuroTypical]

So, I heard this rumor about the Illuminati and the LDS church.

Should I avoid looking into this? I don't want to find out anything temple related until I'm ready.

I'm thinking the 'rumor' involved Masons, not the illuminati. Although I suppose you could have heard it from someone who couldn't tell the difference, or thought they were related or something.

Anyway, yes indeed, there are certain similarities between some of the symbolic stuff masons do, and some of the symbolic stuff you see in or on the temple. There are various ways to think about such things, and I've heard various possible explanations put forward. Here are a few, although none of them will really make any sense unless you've either been to/through the temple or know anything about masonry:

FAIR: Mormonism and temples/Endowment/Freemasonry

FAIR: Mormonism and Freemasonry/Hugh W. Nibley quotes

Neal A. Maxwell Institute Book Review: Mormonism, Masonry, and Mischief

LM

[prophetofdoom]

There are various types of secret societies. I don't think it is a good idea to delve into researching masonic ceremonies. These ceremonies are the counterfeits I was talking about.

[Traveler]

So, I heard this rumor about the Illuminati and the LDS church.

Should I avoid looking into this? I don't want to find out anything temple related until I'm ready.

It is very unlikely there is a connection of the LDS Church with the Illuminati. Anyone that has any sense of history realizes that the Missouri executive extermination order 44 and the church being driven out of the country and civilization, eliminates any intelligent thinker from making a connection. Though some of the symbols used by the illuminati are also used by the church - but the same symbols appear through history long before the illuminati and are in essence ancient religious symbols.

The Traveler

[volgadon]

Basically the Illuminati are an 18th century central-European offshoot of freemasonry. They were young men disillusioned with the corrupt government and the Roman Catholic Church

[NeuroTypical]

Aw come on volgadon - everybody knows the illuminati is a shadowy puppet-master society older than time. They are the people who ran the neanderthals out of Europe with tommy guns so they could go extinct. They suppressed the invention of the wheel and control of fire until introducing it among humans would help them build the military industrial complex.

Recently- they are the people who got daVinci to pretend he had a code, just to throw us off their track. And they took out atlantis because 'they knew too much'. They are the people who faked the moon landing, hide the mars landing, and control the secret ingredient of KFC chicken.

And since mormons are all about brain washing and world domination and lizard people and whatnot, it makes perfect sense that we have ties.

[Wingnut]

Personally I think the Moose Lodge, Elks Lodge, etc qualify too.

Can you explain? Aren't these types of organizations service-based? What's wrong with that?

[Blackmarch]

So, I heard this rumor about the Illuminati and the LDS church.

Should I avoid looking into this? I don't want to find out anything temple related until I'm ready.

This goes under a section labeled, "Conspiracy Theory"

you can research it all you want. But it won't be very fruitful or helpful for you.

Generally what critics associate with the temple ceremonies is masonry, as they have some ceremonies whose appearance is similar in quite a few ways.... and since at one point in time Joseph smith participated in masonry to some extent they say, "Aha that's where he got the temple ceremonies ideas from!"

[FunkyTown]

The Illuminati doesn't exist.

You can believe that they exist, and that belief is nuttier than a squirrel convention, but that doesn't make you nuttier than a squirrel convention.

Just that single belief.

[rameumptom]

The temple has nothing to do with secret combinations. The temple is sacred, and while some parts are secret, it is the worst kept secret around, as the entire ceremony is available on anti-Mormon websites.

The temple endowment is a symbolic instruction, where we observe the Creation and the Garden of Eden. Then we symbolically go from the Telestial to the Terrestrial and then Celestial, learning the things necessary to go from one level of heaven to the next. We literally practice returning into God's presence.

Of the few secret things involved, Brigham Young explained we receive signs and tokens that help us pass by the sentinels (angels that guard the entrance to the different levels of heaven), so we can return into the presence of God. These concepts are not new, but are found in the ancient Jewish-Christian writings, such as the Apocalypse of Paul, and the Ascension of Isaiah.

Gadianton Robbers use secrets to get gain for themselves: power, wealth and glory. We use sacred secrets to learn how to be like Christ and God, and to be with them. Vast difference.

[slamjet]

The Illuminati doesn't exist.

You can believe that they exist, and that belief is nuttier than a squirrel convention, but that doesn't make you nuttier than a squirrel convention.

Just that single belief.

I would be cautious with that belief. They may not exist as a large organized and highly secret society, but after the Da Vinci Code, who knows what nut cases out there have begun such a cult, especially on colleges where some student's love coming up with counter-culture stuff.

It may be out there in small groups, it may even be meant as playful, but still dangerous as I would surmise it detracts and repels the Spirit of God.

[FunkyTown]

I would be cautious with that belief. They may not exist as a large organized and highly secret society, but after the Da Vinci Code, who knows what nut cases out there have begun such a cult, especially on colleges where some student's love coming up with counter-culture stuff.

It may be out there in small groups, it may even be meant as playful, but still dangerous as I would surmise it detracts and repels the Spirit of God.

You raise a good point. Allow me to rephrase:

The Illuminati existing as a centuries old, pan-global conspiracy that runs everything does not exist. Believing it does is nuttier than a squirrel convention.

I respectfully rephrase due to Slamjet's quite accurate assessment that somebody out there may have started a group called The Illuminati because they like the idea.

[Iggy]

Can you explain? Aren't these types of organizations service-based? What's wrong with that?

They are secret combinations. They only do for their own, period. When my ex husband was in the lodges- I saw what they do in their meetings. At the moose they pray facing the east, and it is a printed prayer and they do not pray to the biblical God through his Son Jesus, they do not use any form of the Bible at all.

The women do the same thing, and they tell you that if ANY of the rites are spoken of outside the doors, you will be kicked out and ostracized, with an unspoken threat that it will encompass where you work and your business if you own one.

I spoke of them- and got kicked out. The four years my ex and I were still there, the only public good the lodge did was hand out a scholarship to two high school kids in the amount of $500 each. Big deal, they could have easily made that $5,000.

As for the Elks, I never heard of them helping the public at all. They both exist to provide cheap alcoholic drinks to their paying members. Yep, you pay to belong to them. Yearly dues. They do have activities, but they are for members only.

In this town the moose opens their doors to feed the hungry on Thanksgiving. That is it for their public services. Oh, and they have Bingo once a week that is open to the public. The moose also has gambling- because they are a 'Fraternal' Organization they don't pay the taxes that a retail business has to pay- they are exempt from laws that prohibit gambling. Yes, Oregon state has gambling, and nearly all retail business's have it, but the 'Fraternal' organizations also have in house poker, blackjack, and 4-5-6 that are run by private individuals that pay the lodge a percentage of the wins. That form of gambling is illegal in Oregon in retail establishments.

The moose have Moose Heart & Moose Haven- it is a community where orphaned children of members go. It is also where member adults go who need 24 hour care. Had an elderly female friend go there after her husband passed away- I wrote to her a couple of times, my letters came back unopened, stamped on the front that said person was not at that address. She is the one who wrote to me and gave me that address. Oh, by the way, the lodge that sent the orphans has to pay for their upkeep there, and the adult members who go there for assisted living also have to pay monthly to be there.

[Wingnut]

I guess I still don't see the problem. Just because they have secrets doesn't automatically make them secret combinations. Do they teach evil things, or try to draw people away from God? You mentioned that one group prays facing east -- so? They pray. Why is that a bad thing?

I mean this without any maliciousness, but it sounds like your experiences with these groups may be tainted by the association with your ex-husband, of whom you've repeatedly spoken angry and bitter things (and justifiably so).

Edited March 1, 2011 by Wingnut

[rameumptom]

The Lodges are NOT secret combinations. Just because a group may have some "secret" rites, does not make what they are doing a secret combination.

A secret combination, as defined in the scriptures, is a group that uses secrecy to get gain.

Heck, the LDS Church uses set/rote prayers for baptism and Sacrament. We use a set script for the endowment, and for baptism/confirmation of the dead. If that is all which is required to be a secret combination, then the Church becomes its own worst enemy. Guess what would happen if you started talking about the secret portions of the temple endowment? You get excommunicated! Or, in your words, "kicked out."

Do you know why they pray to the east? Because that is where the Jerusalem temple site is! Jews also pray to the east (as do Muslims, for that matter, towards Mecca). Nothing secret combination about any of that.

Organizations have a right to protect their rites and rituals from those who would misuse them.

Elks, etc., seek to serve while worshiping God in a general manner. They are not out committing murder in order to get gain. So, let's please not confuse ourselves as to what a true secret combination is. If we make all things evil, then nothing is evil.

[NeuroTypical]

Heh - my dad was a Mason and a Moose. Does that mean I've inherited the reins of power for poor deluded planet earth?