Why do so many couples divorce?

[slamjet]

What did you think the point of marriage is for?

For a couple to bond in holy matrimony and gain the eternal blessings of being sealed in the temple. Having children is not what is going to get you to exaltation. Having an Eternal marriage will.

Love is an important bond needed for marriage, but without procreation the love is in vein.

Unconditional love, as Christ gave us the example for. Not "I'll love you unless you can't give me children." For goodness sakes, it could be because your plumbing is bad. Then what, you're worthless? Sounds like what you're saying to me.

I was married to a woman who told me she couldn't have children. She gave birth to five.

Eternal perspective, it's a wonderful thing.

[LDSJewess]

What did you think the point of marriage is for?

Love is an important bond needed for marriage, but without procreation the love is in vein.

Heavenly Father commands us to "Go forth and multiply."

Sorry Fascism, the problem with our society is that there is a lot of multiplying and not enough love and responsibility. If you are not capable of loving your wife unconditionally, then you will likely be also incapable of loving your children unconditionally in which case you are not as yet knowledgeable enough or mature enough to take on the responsibility of being a spouse no less a parent. Marriage and parenting is not some "happily ever after" fairy tale that works fine as long as everything goes the way you want it. I would also be curious if it turned out that you were the one that was unable to father biological children. Would you expect your wife to leave you in such a case. What if you had an accident or became ill? All I can say is hopefully you will grow up and mature a lot before you marry and attempt to have kids. I am a grsandmother now but I am also the product of irresponsible people that did not think before they decided to procreate, and I can assure you it is painful for all involved. Seriously you need to pray about this and not try and twist the scriptures to suit your personal desires.

[LDSJewess]

Hmmmmm It just also occurred to me that I wonder how it would have turned out if the aging couple Sarah and Abraham divorced because after waiting many many years (I am sure it was likely more than 5), decided to divorce. They had FAITH and they were blessed with children. Abraham became the father of many Nations and the father of Israel. It isn't entirely clear but it is implied that they were well past the age of child bearing but they had faith.

[Fascism]

Sorry Fascism, the problem with our society is that there is a lot of multiplying and not enough love and responsibility. If you are not capable of loving your wife unconditionally, then you will likely be also incapable of loving your children unconditionally in which case you are not as yet knowledgeable enough or mature enough to take on the responsibility of being a spouse no less a parent. Marriage and parenting is not some "happily ever after" fairy tale that works fine as long as everything goes the way you want it. I would also be curious if it turned out that you were the one that was unable to father biological children. Would you expect your wife to leave you in such a case. What if you had an accident or became ill? All I can say is hopefully you will grow up and mature a lot before you marry and attempt to have kids. I am a grsandmother now but I am also the product of irresponsible people that did not think before they decided to procreate, and I can assure you it is painful for all involved. Seriously you need to pray about this and not try and twist the scriptures to suit your personal desires.

You claim it is not a happy ever after fairy tale, but yet you are using unconditional love as an argument? Fertility is the one condition I have, otherwise what's the point of marriage? If I was infertile and my wife wanted to leave me because of it I would completely understand.

Most likely any woman I marry will be fertile and there will be no problems, it is my lifes dream to have a large family and nothing, not even love, will prevent me from obtaining that goal.

[slamjet]

You claim it is not a happy ever after fairy tale, but yet you are using unconditional love as an argument? Fertility is the one condition I have, otherwise what's the point of marriage? If I was infertile and my wife wanted to leave me because of it I would completely understand.

Most likely any woman I marry will be fertile and there will be no problems, it is my lifes dream to have a large family and nothing, not even love, will prevent me from obtaining that goal.

Ok, so how will you know what either one of your fertility level is?

[Fascism]

Hmmmmm It just also occurred to me that I wonder how it would have turned out if the aging couple Sarah and Abraham divorced because after waiting many many years (I am sure it was likely more than 5), decided to divorce. They had FAITH and they were blessed with children. Abraham became the father of many Nations and the father of Israel. It isn't entirely clear but it is implied that they were well past the age of child bearing but they had faith.

Well you must forget the part when Abraham impregnated his maid.

[LDSJewess]

I am reading a lot of what you want and that is not what marriage is all about. "Any woman I marry" "MY Life's dream". Marriage is never all about what one person wants. With the attitude that nothing not even your wife or love can stand in the way of what YOU want, you are not planning to live according to God's plan rather your own.

If you do wind up marrying and having children, your wife may eventually be unhappy that she is being used as a baby factory and she just may decide to leave you, take the kids and you get to pay the child support.

But perhaps your view of marriage is just another answer to the original posters question.

[Fascism]

If you do wind up marrying and having children, your wife may eventually be unhappy that she is being used as a baby factory and she just may decide to leave you, take the kids and you get to pay the child support.

That is an example of how feminism is corrupting our culture. Any woman cruel enough to take a fathers children away, and then steal his money with child support, deserves worse than the telestial kingdom.

[LDSJewess]

That is an example of how feminism is corrupting our culture. Any woman cruel enough to take a fathers children away, and then steal his money with child support, deserves worse than the telestial kingdom.

No actually it is merely an example of what can happen when people marry for heir own personal selfish agenda. Parents are required to support their children and support is not strealing. If you fail to be a loving husband and parent and only use people for your own wants then it is you that would be stealing.

I think it would behoove you to read your scriptures and pray about this and see what heavenly fathers plan is regarding marriage and families. And always remember that your life is all about HIS plan not yours.

[Fascism]

No actually it is merely an example of what can happen when people marry for heir own personal selfish agenda. Parents are required to support their children and support is not strealing. If you fail to be a loving husband and parent and only use people for your own wants then it is you that would be stealing.

I think it would behoove you to read your scriptures and pray about this and see what heavenly fathers plan is regarding marriage and families. And always remember that your life is all about HIS plan not yours.

Child support checks never go to the children, they go to the womans selfish desires like buying shoes or dresses, or buying gifts for their new boyfriend after they divorce a man and take half his things. Child support court is a very corrupt business meant to squeeze every penny out of a mans pockets.

A man has the obligation to pay for his children's expenses as he sees fit, not write a blank check to his skank ex wife that wants to go around town fornicating with random men.

[LDSJewess]

Child support checks never go to the children, they go to the womans selfish desires like buying shoes or dresses, or buying gifts for their new boyfriend after they divorce a man and take half his things. Child support court is a very corrupt business meant to squeeze every penny out of a mans pockets.

A man has the obligation to pay for his children's expenses as he sees fit, not write a blank check to his skank ex wife that wants to go around town fornicating with random men.

Young man, you are making a tremendous amount of assumptions about where child support money goes and what ex-wives buy. It appears that you have some experience with this, no? Or just making assumptions.

Bottom line is if you choose to marry, be sure to love your wife even as Christ loves the church. If you do not, then you indeed will become a very bitter man and resent having to pay support that is court ordered. Like it or not it is what happens.

While you are pursuiing your dreams of a large family you also may want to think about how you actually plan to support this wife and large family. Hopefully you already have a good education and strong career prospects. In today's economy providing a home, clothing, food and education is very expensive, (plan at least $40,000.00 per child for their college education). And in additional to the physical expenses of supporting a family, there is the time and emotional support required to nurture a family. Then there will be time for your career and of course time for church and your calling/s. Before you start multiplying, do the math on the time and expense it will require of you to both emotionally nuture and financially support your family.

I will not discuss this further as your idea of marriage and family is so far removed from Gospel principles that it would only create serious contention, and I joined this forum for healthy discussions with other LDS people that are conducive to the purpose of the forum.

I truly so hope that as you mature a little you will realize the responsibility and also have a better opinion of women before you decide to marry. If you do not you will likely just be another addition to the divorce statistics.

[Fascism]

Young man, you are making a tremendous amount of assumptions about where child support money goes and what ex-wives buy. It appears that you have some experience with this, no? Or just making assumptions.

I have many family members and friends who have had to deal with the child support ruining their lives. Edited June 3, 2011 by pam
Inappropriate response

[MarginOfError]

My worry is that if I get married and my wife is infertile, I would instantly divorce her. That is the bottom line, I need to create children, and if my wife is unable to do so, it is over.

The religion you subscribe to (presumably, by your choice to join this forum) would call that a pretty stupid reason to end a marriage. President James E. Faust once said that the only "just cause" for divorce was irreparable damage to a person's dignity as a human being. If you are going to claim that infertility is just cause for divorce, then, by President Faust's standard, you are saying that your wife's infertility is causing irreparable damage to your dignity as a human being.

I submit that if you divorce your wife over her infertility, you have done irreparable damage to your own dignity...and I'd consider her lucky to be out of that marriage.

I am planning on having my own children as well as adopting one or two children to add to the family. I take the commandment "Go forth and multiply." very seriously.

My brother and his ex wife spent 5 years trying to get pregnant, but she had a problem with her ovaries that made it very difficult to conceive, which inevitably lead to their divorce.

Their divorce was not inevitable. Their divorce was a result of choices they made that prevented them from properly coping with her infertility. If his attitude is anything like yours, then I'd be willing to claim that their marriage ended because he was a .....

What did you think the point of marriage is for?

Love is an important bond needed for marriage, but without procreation the love is in vein.

Heavenly Father commands us to "Go forth and multiply."

You are correct that one of the chief cornerstones of marriage is to provide an environment in which spirits may come to earth and be raised in the gospel. But it also is meant to help people learn to serve, be humble, and progress in ways that are unique to such an intense relationship. There is no one single purpose to marriage. There are multiple purposes to marriage, and by focusing on only one purpose, you will fail to reap all of the blessings available to those living in a well rounded and complete marriage.

You claim it is not a happy ever after fairy tale, but yet you are using unconditional love as an argument? Fertility is the one condition I have, otherwise what's the point of marriage? If I was infertile and my wife wanted to leave me because of it I would completely understand.

Most likely any woman I marry will be fertile and there will be no problems, it is my lifes dream to have a large family and nothing, not even love, will prevent me from obtaining that goal.

Why is it that the people you least want to have children are the ones hell-bent on having the most?

Just do us all a favor. When you propose to a girl, use language such as, "will your uterus marry me?"

That is an example of how feminism is corrupting our culture. Any woman cruel enough to take a fathers children away, and then steal his money with child support, deserves worse than the telestial kingdom.

And we certainly hope any man so narrow minded, ignorant, and demeaning as to think this about women would join said women.

Child support checks never go to the children, they go to the womans selfish desires like buying shoes or dresses, or buying gifts for their new boyfriend after they divorce a man and take half his things. Child support court is a very corrupt business meant to squeeze every penny out of a mans pockets.

A man has the obligation to pay for his children's expenses as he sees fit, not write a blank check to his skank ex wife that wants to go around town fornicating with random men.

This is outright abusive, almost categorically false, immature, and stinks of sexism.

[pam]

We can now carry on with the original intent of this thread.

[sweetiepie]

Thank you pam, and thanks for the replies everyone...except for fascism...wow.

[KrazyKay]

Do you think these people fall in love, get married, have children, start having money problems, finish having children and when they get a chance to breathe they realize that they don't love the other person anymore? When it does not involve adultery or anything covenant breaking, what do you think happens?

My brother in law even said to his wife that she is breaking the hearts of her children (13, 12, and 10), and she still doesn't want to work things out.

I used to think in early marriage that if a husband cheats on a wife, it should be over immediately! Now, after everything we have built together, I can see how important it is to keep your marriage together even through something as horrible as adultery.

Do you think lds members are taking sealings less seriously than we should?

Just wondering, and sad for these families. Thanks for the discussion!

I think when a marriage ends, it is usually a very complicated mess. I know when I left my first husband after 6 months of marriage, it was very very complicated. He was not a member of the church and this was during the time I was not active in the church. I was also 19 when we married, 20 when I got the marriage annuled. But I left him for several reasons - the main one that broke the camel's back so to speak was catching him in our bed with another woman when I came home from work early one day. It turns out he had told that other woman that he was living with his sister. I was already so depressed - more depressed then any other time before or after, that that night I tried to kill myself by over dosing on Tylenol. Obviously didn't work, I'm still here, lol. Anyway, the other reasons were that he was bipolar - diagnosed in high school. He claimed he was in the Navy Seals for a few years - after I left him I found out that it was not possible for someone with bipolar to be in the navy seals. He was also sexually abusive - I won't go into here how just say it was very sick and deviant and has made it hard on me with my current husband. I am very thankful that my current husband has been so supportive. My first husband also smoked - promised me before marriage that he would try to stop... instead he started to smoke more often. Like I said, a complicated mess.

It is possible some of these marriages could be ending for a number of reasons making them a complicated mess. Personally, the only reason I can see justifying ending a marriage is if there is abuse - physical, sexual, or emotional and the one doing the abuse doesn't think he/she is doing anything wrong and refuses to change his/her ways and/or see a counselor.

Oh, I also wanted to say thank you to Pam. I didn't really want to reply with Fascim's comments going on and on like he was.

[pam]

You are very welcome sweetiepie and KrazyKay. It was just utter nonsense. MOE said everything I was feeling though but held back.

[Jennarator]

Wow, get into the conversation late and you miss a lot!

I am glad the subject is back on track!

I agree with most of the orginal responses. A lot of divorce is selfish. I say that knowing perfectly well I am divorced. I did everything I could to let my husband know I was there to love and support him. After I lived with emtional abuse and put him thru drug and alcohol rehab, and his anger and abuse did not end, and he started abusing the children, I kicked him out. Then I found out he was also inviting women over for sex while I was working and supporting the family, since he never supported the family at all. The couple years that he did work, all his money and most of mine went to drugs and such. I did everything I could to try to get our marrige back on track. 3 years of counceling countless blessings, and I gave until I realized I couldn't fix it. I needed him to want to, he didn't want to change. So yes, selfish. If he would have wanted to save the marrige, he could have. But instead he wanted to hurt us, for his own personal "needs."

[seeking_peace]

I certainly can’t speak for all divorces, but I know what ended my 22 year marriage.

The final cause of our divorce was that my husband left me to marry someone else. The things leading up to that point were many (although some of the issues were discovered in hindsight):

Depression

Pornography addiction

Resentment

Underemployment

Detachment

Jealousy

Inequality

Envy

Sexual dysfunction

Isolation

Miscommunication

Infidelity

Selfishness

Do I think that LDS members are not taking sealings seriously? Not at all. I took my covenants very seriously. Choosing to allow my marriage to end was the most difficult choice I’ve ever made. I stuck through a lot of heartache because I had made vows and because I believed---still believe—in marriage and families.

But when my husband left, it was like being released from a darkness…a darkness that I clung to for a long, long time.

I think that a lot of times we, as LDS members, hold on to marriages long after they’ve really ended because we take the sealing seriously.

Looking at my list, I realize that other than depression, underemployment, and sexual dysfunction, everything on my list is a result of selfishness. And even though they were not caused by selfishness, they fed into the inability to be empathetic.

So, I agree with the consensus: selfishness is the main cause of divorce.

[Jennarator]

I certainly can’t speak for all divorces, but I know what ended my 22 year marriage.

The final cause of our divorce was that my husband left me to marry someone else. The things leading up to that point were many (although some of the issues were discovered in hindsight):

Depression

Pornography addiction

Resentment

Underemployment

Detachment

Jealousy

Inequality

Envy

Sexual dysfunction

Isolation

Miscommunication

Infidelity

Selfishness

Do I think that LDS members are not taking sealings seriously? Not at all. I took my covenants very seriously. Choosing to allow my marriage to end was the most difficult choice I’ve ever made. I stuck through a lot of heartache because I had made vows and because I believed---still believe—in marriage and families.

But when my husband left, it was like being released from a darkness…a darkness that I clung to for a long, long time.

I think that a lot of times we, as LDS members, hold on to marriages long after they’ve really ended because we take the sealing seriously.

Looking at my list, I realize that other than depression, underemployment, and sexual dysfunction, everything on my list is a result of selfishness. And even though they were not caused by selfishness, they fed into the inability to be empathetic.

So, I agree with the consensus: selfishness is the main cause of divorce.

I love it when people say what I want to say, only better. I echo this. :) The last thing I ever wanted to do was divorce or break a covenant. I put great value on it. Thanks, seeking, I feel the same. I am in a much better place, now.

[Vort]

Personally, the only reason I can see justifying ending a marriage is if there is abuse - physical, sexual, or emotional and the one doing the abuse doesn't think he/she is doing anything wrong and refuses to change his/her ways and/or see a counselor.

I have avoided commenting on this thread because I don't have anything useful to offer the topic. But I'm curious about KrazyKay's comment above. Not sure whether or not I agree with it -- I may -- but I wonder if KrazyKay considers the refusal to engage in sex, or only in extreme and uncommon circumstances (e.g. once a month, lights out, under covers, no talking, five minutes max), to be a form of sexual abuse and thus a legitimate reason for divorce.

(Thankfully, I am not in any such position, but I know people, including members of my own extended family, who have been.)

[Jennarator]

I have avoided commenting on this thread because I don't have anything useful to offer the topic. But I'm curious about KrazyKay's comment above. Not sure whether or not I agree with it -- I may -- but I wonder if KrazyKay considers the refusal to engage in sex, or only in extreme and uncommon circumstances (e.g. once a month, lights out, under covers, no talking, five minutes max), to be a form of sexual abuse and thus a legitimate reason for divorce.

(Thankfully, I am not in any such position, but I know people, including members of my own extended family, who have been.)

I am not KrazyKat, but I think that is manipulation and definatly a form of abuse. (And a bit shocking. I have never heard of this. Tho I have heard of people using sex as bribe, agian, manipulation and a form of abuse.)

[Backroads]

I have avoided commenting on this thread because I don't have anything useful to offer the topic. But I'm curious about KrazyKay's comment above. Not sure whether or not I agree with it -- I may -- but I wonder if KrazyKay considers the refusal to engage in sex, or only in extreme and uncommon circumstances (e.g. once a month, lights out, under covers, no talking, five minutes max), to be a form of sexual abuse and thus a legitimate reason for divorce.

(Thankfully, I am not in any such position, but I know people, including members of my own extended family, who have been.)

I think it could be a sign of something wrong. Not the sex or lack thereof itself, but the fact that the husband and wife can't reach agreement.

I always have to wonder when people talk about using sex as punishment. If I'm mad at someone, why should I be forced to have sex when I'm not feeling loving?

[estradling75]

I have avoided commenting on this thread because I don't have anything useful to offer the topic. But I'm curious about KrazyKay's comment above. Not sure whether or not I agree with it -- I may -- but I wonder if KrazyKay considers the refusal to engage in sex, or only in extreme and uncommon circumstances (e.g. once a month, lights out, under covers, no talking, five minutes max), to be a form of sexual abuse and thus a legitimate reason for divorce.

(Thankfully, I am not in any such position, but I know people, including members of my own extended family, who have been.)

I am not KrazyKay either but I put it in the 'could be' abuse category. I see sexual relations between husband and wife as a 'canary in the mine' on the status of the health of the marriage. If things are good (at whatever level they both agree to) then then marriage is probably healthy. If things are not good then there are issues in the marriage that need to be uncovered and worked on. Abuse is a potential issue but not the only one.

[Jennarator]

I have avoided commenting on this thread because I don't have anything useful to offer the topic. But I'm curious about KrazyKay's comment above. Not sure whether or not I agree with it -- I may -- but I wonder if KrazyKay considers the refusal to engage in sex, or only in extreme and uncommon circumstances (e.g. once a month, lights out, under covers, no talking, five minutes max), to be a form of sexual abuse and thus a legitimate reason for divorce.

(Thankfully, I am not in any such position, but I know people, including members of my own extended family, who have been.)

I also wonder if people that do this might have been abused earlier in life? Perhaps not severly but enough to make it a scarey or not enjoyable thing for them. Or maybe just taught that it is a bad thing? I don't know. I just don't see how anyone can hate it so much....it's kinda sad.