Modesty dilema

[Backroads]

Backroads:

Explain how I am condeming? In the post right above yours (#48) I am trying to not be condeming and outline this. Perhpas I am missing something in my conduct, please explain.

You continually jump to the pandemic of a few women.

[applepansy]

Applepans:

The point I am trying to make is a simply one. I think there are many LDS women who follow modest dress standards throughout their youth and early adulthood life (which is a great thing) that later learn that drawing attention to breasts can be thrilling. I am simply wondered if this is what happened with the OP’s wife. I might be way off base. Sadly, our society is obsessed with size and I think some women who are larger up top can be more tempted toward this thrilling action. It is not something I am supporting and a good portion of the blame should fall on men who also have a temptation in looking.

Where I might differ with you is that in the everyday world I do not see women who draw attention to this part of their body as “few.” I see it becoming more and more pervasive, through TV shows, breast implant cosmetic surgery, talk, and so forth. A year or two ago MSNBC ran an article outlining that breast implants were becoming a highly valued and popular high school graduation present from parents. So I do not see it as “few.”

I see the “the few” as outstanding LDS women who dress modestly, regardless of size and those women who are larger trying to some degree to go the extra mile not to attract a gaze. But that going the extra mile does not mean extraordinary and normative silliness attempts, such as always wearing baggy clothes. Women who are naturally large did not do anything to affect their size, they should not be punished or ashamed, but they should be a little more thoughtful related to dress.

One additional thought. If there are a few LDS women who draw attention to this part of their body, they can be a temptation to other women by sharing their experiences, or through simply observation. With this said, I am not suggesting to condemn such women or banish them, but they can draw more women (and men) toward a certain type of temptation. So there can be fair-minded concerns. But church is about accepting all people and we are all sinner trying to help each other – I do not want to sound like I am condemning such women.

Good Grief... I disagree with so many of your assumptions that its not even worth typing.

Have a great day dash.

[Jenamarie]

The whole "buying larger garments to show more cleavage" makes no sense to me. I've HAD to wear larger-than-necessary garments due to rapid weightloss with not enough time to make the 2-hour round trip to the nearest Distribution Center, and let me tell you, it was annoying! Sure, more of my chest showed (or *could* have showed, if I'd dressed that way), but I also had more bunching around the torso, LOTS of bunching around my shoulders, and more fabric that I had to tuck into my pants (that often didn't stay tucked). Anything that was even semi-form fitting (and nearly all cut-down-to-there tops and dresses are *very* form-fitting), showed cased a lot more lumps than just what was on my chest. It is *never* something I could see doing on purpose. My regular garments would already allow me to show much more than I normally do, if I wanted to. I would see no need to buy bigger, were I inclined to show off my "endowments", unless I wanted to wear clothing that would require me to ditch the garment all together.

[slamjet]

Applepans:

The point I am trying to make is a simply one. I think there are many LDS women who follow modest dress standards throughout their youth and early adulthood life (which is a great thing) that later learn that drawing attention to breasts can be thrilling. I am simply wondered if this is what happened with the OP’s wife. I might be way off base. Sadly, our society is obsessed with size and I think some women who are larger up top can be more tempted toward this thrilling action. It is not something I am supporting and a good portion of the blame should fall on men who also have a temptation in looking.

Where I might differ with you is that in the everyday world I do not see women who draw attention to this part of their body as “few.” I see it becoming more and more pervasive, through TV shows, breast implant cosmetic surgery, talk, and so forth. A year or two ago MSNBC ran an article outlining that breast implants were becoming a highly valued and popular high school graduation present from parents. So I do not see it as “few.”

I see the “the few” as outstanding LDS women who dress modestly, regardless of size and those women who are larger trying to some degree to go the extra mile not to attract a gaze. But that going the extra mile does not mean extraordinary and normative silliness attempts, such as always wearing baggy clothes. Women who are naturally large did not do anything to affect their size, they should not be punished or ashamed, but they should be a little more thoughtful related to dress.

One additional thought. If there are a few LDS women who draw attention to this part of their body, they can be a temptation to other women by sharing their experiences, or through simply observation. With this said, I am not suggesting to condemn such women or banish them, but they can draw more women (and men) toward a certain type of temptation. So there can be fair-minded concerns. But church is about accepting all people and we are all sinner trying to help each other – I do not want to sound like I am condemning such women.

I have two thoughts here:

1)

I see it becoming more and more pervasive, through TV shows, breast implant cosmetic surgery, talk, and so forth. A year or two ago MSNBC ran an article outlining that breast implants were becoming a highly valued and popular high school graduation present from parents. So I do not see it as “few.”

The media... Really??? What you see on TV is being the norm??? Popular high school graduation gift is breast augmentation for teens??? Really? Popular to who? All high schoolers? Or all high schoolers who are shallow and have a friend in mommy instead of a parent? I mean, please, how about some real stats.

2) Your positively absolute assertions makes me wander if it's not the LDS women with the mind set you are saying but rather you are. Maybe it's all you're looking at when a woman walks into a room, or the chapel? So maybe the problem is with you? Because you have shown no real sources or stats to prove your position, only your observation in your small part of the world. And that, I believe, is suspect.

I have four daughters and one who has gone off to college. She still holds to what she has been taught as proper dress for a lady. Thankfully, my other girls hold to it also. When my 14 year old went out to find a dress, she came back empty handed because there was not a single one that was comfortably modest for her.

So please, be real.

[Martain]

You've got to be kidding with that website. I can buy a Tshirt and shorts cheaper than $150 at Walmart. There are modest swimsuits that look like swimsuits. If you can't keep your eyes in your head unless a woman wears a Tshirt and shorts at the beach the problem is with you.

I'll admit, looking at the price wasn't something I'd already done... I saw that they were modest, that I liked them, and that was enough... no need to peruse through the catalog.

[dash77]

I have two thoughts here:

1)

The media... Really??? What you see on TV is being the norm??? Popular high school graduation gift is breast augmentation for teens??? Really? Popular to who? All high schoolers? Or all high schoolers who are shallow and have a friend in mommy instead of a parent? I mean, please, how about some real stats.

2) Your positively absolute assertions makes me wander if it's not the LDS women with the mind set you are saying but rather you are. Maybe it's all you're looking at when a woman walks into a room, or the chapel? So maybe the problem is with you? Because you have shown no real sources or stats to prove your position, only your observation in your small part of the world. And that, I believe, is suspect.

I have four daughters and one who has gone off to college. She still holds to what she has been taught as proper dress for a lady. Thankfully, my other girls hold to it also. When my 14 year old went out to find a dress, she came back empty handed because there was not a single one that was comfortably modest for her.

So please, be real.

Slamjet:

Showing off one body in a sexual manner is a form of sexual objectification. Obviously, there is a huge difference between showing some cleavage and wearing extremely skimpy clothing.

A very good source to learn about how destructive such behavior is, and how pervasive it is to sexual objectify oneself, is American Psychological Association Task Force on the sexualization of girls/women And although the executive study is a good first step, (see Report of the APA Task Force on the Sexualization of Girls) you need to read the entire document to fully understand how destructive and pervasive the sexual objectification of women are it is. It clearly outlines how media is affecting young women to dislike their bodies and make changes to have a sexualized body.

According to Dr. Grogan’s research, from the academic book “Body image” by the mid 1990 over a million women had had breast implants and from 2005 onward it is the most common plastic surgery among women According to statistics released by the American Society of Plastic Surgeons (ASPS), more than 8.7 million procedures were performed on people to change their appearance by choosing cosmetic plastic surgery in 2003; up 32 percent from nearly 6.6 million in 2002. This past year's growth may be attributed to the attention plastic surgery received from the entertainment industry, which spotlighted plastic surgery and, perhaps, created a larger interest from the public.

Below are a few other academic books that outline the pervasiveness of women sexually objectifying themselves:

• See the book “Sex in advertising” edited by Drs. Reichard and Lambaste. They actual provide research related to the Dallas Cowboys cheerleader franchise and how it related to the sexual objectification of women the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders are a pervasive desired image among women.

•

In a 2000 article in the Journal of Sport and Social Issues the sports sociologist Dr. Messner and colleagues outline the “Televised Sports Manhood Formula” which outlines what constitutes “real men” and one of the foundational concepts is women as sexy prizes and the sexy prized women is the Barbie doll type – big breasts, small hips and mindless. The article is called “Televised Sports Manhood Formula.” In this study he did examine pro football.

• The book “Barbie culture” written by the sociologist Mary Rogers in 1999 explains that this image – larger breasts and thin waists” is the emphatic image most women desire.

Although it is a popular magazine article, I find the following article Is cosmetic surgery a good gift for grads? - Health - Kids and parenting - msnbc.com to be interesting and helpful regarding this topic – especially about the societal norms it reinforces (quick fixes for mental health problems) and how many teenage girls are going to breast implants. I see this as scary stuff.

Slamjet, you may not want to think that the sexual objectification of women is a real thing, but those people who study it in different academic fields (gender studies, psychology, youth development) see this as a real changing trend. And I see it as a real temptation that LDS young women, women, young men, and men need to resist. Just because you do not see this problematic trend, does not mean it does not exist.

I have said this before in different threads; I think too many people reply to threads based on their personal observations or just what they know. I am glad your daughters are modest – good for them. But there is more and more immodestly being presented as normative behavior in mainstream American society and I think it can cause more temptations for some LDS men and women.

[Jenamarie]

Seeing a person's body as something that needs to be constantly covered up lest they tempt others is *also* objectification, though (not saying you're saying women should wear sacks, but it's an extreme that "modesty" can be taken to). I see a hyper focus in parts of the "modesty movement" on not being sexy, on not being the person to blame for another person's poor choices, on not doing anything to be too attractive to the opposite sex. By so doing the fact is ignored that there is far more to the human body than it's sexual function. (I see the breast feeding in public controversy as being prime example of this. Breasts are not ONLY for sexual use!)

Modesty has it's purpose, but as always, "moderation in all things".

[slamjet]

Slamjet:

Showing off one body in a sexual manner is a form of sexual objectification. Obviously, there is a huge difference between showing some cleavage and wearing extremely skimpy clothing.

A very good source to learn about how destructive such behavior is, and how pervasive it is to sexual objectify oneself, is American Psychological Association Task Force on the sexualization of girls/women And although the executive study is a good first step, (see Report of the APA Task Force on the Sexualization of Girls) you need to read the entire document to fully understand how destructive and pervasive the sexual objectification of women are it is. It clearly outlines how media is affecting young women to dislike their bodies and make changes to have a sexualized body.

According to Dr. Grogan’s research, from the academic book “Body image” by the mid 1990 over a million women had had breast implants and from 2005 onward it is the most common plastic surgery among women According to statistics released by the American Society of Plastic Surgeons (ASPS), more than 8.7 million procedures were performed on people to change their appearance by choosing cosmetic plastic surgery in 2003; up 32 percent from nearly 6.6 million in 2002. This past year's growth may be attributed to the attention plastic surgery received from the entertainment industry, which spotlighted plastic surgery and, perhaps, created a larger interest from the public.

Below are a few other academic books that outline the pervasiveness of women sexually objectifying themselves:

• See the book “Sex in advertising” edited by Drs. Reichard and Lambaste. They actual provide research related to the Dallas Cowboys cheerleader franchise and how it related to the sexual objectification of women the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders are a pervasive desired image among women.

•

In a 2000 article in the Journal of Sport and Social Issues the sports sociologist Dr. Messner and colleagues outline the “Televised Sports Manhood Formula” which outlines what constitutes “real men” and one of the foundational concepts is women as sexy prizes and the sexy prized women is the Barbie doll type – big breasts, small hips and mindless. The article is called “Televised Sports Manhood Formula.” In this study he did examine pro football.

• The book “Barbie culture” written by the sociologist Mary Rogers in 1999 explains that this image – larger breasts and thin waists” is the emphatic image most women desire.

Although it is a popular magazine article, I find the following article Is cosmetic surgery a good gift for grads? - Health - Kids and parenting - msnbc.com to be interesting and helpful regarding this topic – especially about the societal norms it reinforces (quick fixes for mental health problems) and how many teenage girls are going to breast implants. I see this as scary stuff.

Slamjet, you may not want to think that the sexual objectification of women is a real thing, but those people who study it in different academic fields (gender studies, psychology, youth development) see this as a real changing trend. And I see it as a real temptation that LDS young women, women, young men, and men need to resist. Just because you do not see this problematic trend, does not mean it does not exist.

I have said this before in different threads; I think too many people reply to threads based on their personal observations or just what they know. I am glad your daughters are modest – good for them. But there is more and more immodestly being presented as normative behavior in mainstream American society and I think it can cause more temptations for some LDS men and women.

I appreciate your post, and thanks for not taking mine too personally (at least I hope you didn't) but one thing I can assure you of, understanding the objectification of women is one subject I excel in. And at the risk of getting too personal again, I understand exactly how it is that women not only objectify themselves, but I am also well aware of how much more it is in the minds of men that go about objectifying them without them (women) even doing anything to attract the attention.

Women can dress as modest as they can and men will still say it's not good enough. You have whole cultures putting women in burkas because they refuse to get it that it's their (the mens) issue to learn to control their lusts and not the women. While there may be a "barbie" culture out there, I can say with certainly that it's not the majority. What is the majority is men refusing to accept their weakness and understand that they need to reign themselves in.

Now I'm not saying that a woman prancing around in a mini skirt and tight clothing doesn't bear some responsibility for how men look at her (not act, look and thing, please don't flame me). But a woman who is showing cleavage and wearing modest shorts hardly rises to that level.

[dash77]

I appreciate your post, and thanks for not taking mine too personally (at least I hope you didn't) but one thing I can assure you of, understanding the objectification of women is one subject I excel in. And at the risk of getting too personal again, I understand exactly how it is that women not only objectify themselves, but I am also well aware of how much more it is in the minds of men that go about objectifying them without them (women) even doing anything to attract the attention.

Women can dress as modest as they can and men will still say it's not good enough. You have whole cultures putting women in burkas because they refuse to get it that it's their (the mens) issue to learn to control their lusts and not the women. While there may be a "barbie" culture out there, I can say with certainly that it's not the majority. What is the majority is men refusing to accept their weakness and understand that they need to reign themselves in.

Now I'm not saying that a woman prancing around in a mini skirt and tight clothing doesn't bear some responsibility for how men look at her (not act, look and thing, please don't flame me). But a woman who is showing cleavage and wearing modest shorts hardly rises to that level.

Slamjet:

I see it as a two way street.

There are many men – both in the church and out of the church – who struggle with sexual issues (e.g., lust) and women should not have to feel body shame or change their dress due to such men (assuming they are dressed to church standard). I agree with you completely and these men need to learn to overcome such temptations.

But there are women who have struggles and real temptations to flaunt and show off their bodies and there is good academic evidence – such as the APA report on the sexualization of women – which outlines the intervening factors, one of which is the media. The APA report underscores female self objectification (e.g., gender schemas) and this is destructive behavior. I am sure it stats slowly (e.g., mini skirts) and progesses from there. And I also realize such sefl-objectifying can also occur in men.

In the context of the OP’s thread, I know of women who are larger up top who have communicated that flaunting this body part is a real temptation. I have made no argument that the majority of women have this struggle/temptation. All I am suggesting is that this could be a real issue for the OP’s wife – she may have learned later in life that dressing a certain ways can gain attention from men who have lust temptations.

[applepansy]

I'll admit, looking at the price wasn't something I'd already done... I saw that they were modest, that I liked them, and that was enough... no need to peruse through the catalog.

I didn't peruse. I opened the link saw that they were Tshirt and shorts for $150.00

I'll wear a swimsuit. Keep your eyes in your head.

[slamjet]

Slamjet:

I see it as a two way street.

There are many men – both in the church and out of the church – who struggle with sexual issues (e.g., lust) and women should not have to feel body shame or change their dress due to such men (assuming they are dressed to church standard). I agree with you completely and these men need to learn to overcome such temptations.

But there are women who have struggles and real temptations to flaunt and show off their bodies and there is good academic evidence – such as the APA report on the sexualization of women – which outlines the intervening factors, one of which is the media. The APA report underscores female self objectification (e.g., gender schemas) and this is destructive behavior. I am sure it stats slowly (e.g., mini skirts) and progesses from there. And I also realize such sefl-objectifying can also occur in men.

In the context of the OP’s thread, I know of women who are larger up top who have communicated that flaunting this body part is a real temptation. I have made no argument that the majority of women have this struggle/temptation. All I am suggesting is that this could be a real issue for the OP’s wife – she may have learned later in life that dressing a certain ways can gain attention from men who have lust temptations.

Agreed. But I was taking issue with using the word "majority" without any clear proof. However, this posting seems to strike at what may be the issue with the OP.

And thank you for the APA report. It's interesting, although it's actually stating the obvious, but that obvious is so ubiquitous that it becomes desensitizing.

[MarginOfError]

The APA report underscores female self objectification (e.g., gender schemas) and this is destructive behavior. I am sure it stats slowly (e.g., mini skirts) and progesses from there.

Dash, only you would think a mini-skirt was starting slowly.

[Backroads]

THe problem with dressing as a larger-chested woman is that I can find an attractive top I find to be quite modest... but because it does not hide the fact that I have a large chest (something I find unnecessary to hide, to be honest) you seem to automatically deem it immodest.

There is nothing immodest about having a large chest. It's immodest to flaunt lots of cleavage, yes, but why should I take the effort to hide the fact I have a large chest?

[slamjet]

There is nothing immodest about having a large chest. It's immodest to flaunt lots of cleavage, yes, but why should I take the effort to hide the fact I have a large chest?

Because you would be guilty of creating all those lewd thoughts generated in my head?

This whole discussion reminds me of a Little House on the Prairie episode I watched when I was young. Some dudes daughter was developing early and dad didn't like it. So she had to wrap her chest up tight to look her age. I dunno, I'm demented.

[Soulsearcher]

I dunno, I'm demented.

Are we supposed to disagree with this or is it ok to just smile and nod knowingly

[MarginOfError]

Because you would be guilty of creating all those lewd thoughts generated in my head?

This whole discussion reminds me of a Little House on the Prairie episode I watched when I was young. Some dudes daughter was developing early and dad didn't like it. So she had to wrap her chest up tight to look her age. I dunno, I'm demented.

Are we supposed to disagree with this or is it ok to just smile and nod knowingly

How about :clap:

[slamjet]

Are we supposed to disagree with this or is it ok to just smile and nod knowingly

I'd say let's celebrate because Slamjet finally posted something that makes sense

[Backroads]

Because you would be guilty of creating all those lewd thoughts generated in my head?

This whole discussion reminds me of a Little House on the Prairie episode I watched when I was young. Some dudes daughter was developing early and dad didn't like it. So she had to wrap her chest up tight to look her age. I dunno, I'm demented.

The only times I ever wanted to wrap up my chest is during swimming/lifeguarding.

[Guest fadedleaf]

I have a little problem I'd like some input on.

My wife and I disagree on what clothing is modest. She likes to wear clothing that's a little tight fitting and revealing in form and cleavage. Same with swimwear. She wears a one piece but it's low cut and revealing in the front.

It makes me uncomfortable to be with her if she's wearing this type of clothing/swimwear. I've talked to her about this but those discussions go badly because we disagree on what's modest.

So after years of this I feel like I've given up on resolving it. If we're going somewhere and she puts on clothes that make me uncomfortable I usually just clam up and avoid her if possible. For example if she suggests going swimming I will look for excuses not to be able to go but if I can't get out of it I'll just figure out ways to stay away from her at the pool. She notices and says something but she just thinks I need to get over it.

I don't care what she does or how she dresses when I'm not around. It only bothers me when I'm with her and I see other guys checking her out.

I feel like I’m not that good at composing an argument; however, in the spirit of wanting to help I will try my best to convey what I believe I would feel in similar circumstances.

I would start by agreeing with Applepansy in her notion that trust and respect is a two way street.

ADDITION: If I started dressing differently and didn't care what my husband thought about it, my husband would wonder. Likewise, If my husband's behavior changed I would wonder too.

And

If I wear something that makes my husband uncomfortable and he mentions that he's uncomfortable, I change my clothes. I love my husband I because I love him I don't want him to be "uncomfortable." My husband responds in a similar way when I'm uncomfortable.

My wife would respond in the same manner and I to her. I feel that that onset of changing attire had a deeper meaning than her saying, "You just need to get over it." I'm not going to requite because I feel that it's my duty, but my feeling on the subject are if she isn't doing it for your attention then who is she doing it for? I'm not going out on a limb to cry infidelity, but I'm not ruling it out either. Why is she doing it? You mentioned she has a friend who gives her a good deal on cloths, yet I wouldn't use that as an excuse for immodest attire.

I would talk to her. No. I would really talk to her. I would get out of the house, maybe drive to another city, eat at a restaurant I haven't been to in a while, and gently try to bring the subject up. If talking doesn't go down the path you're looking for next I would try a third party intimately like a bishop.

I've come to the general conclusion most people already know what they want to hear. It seems that when the words come from someone else then that individual reinforces their original thought. During this process I would pray, pray, pray to Heavenly Father for guidance. No one on in this forum, or any other forum for that matter, can solve your problems. (I'm not implying there isn't a lot of good advise here). We all have our own path to make.

Peace be with you.

[dash77]

THe problem with dressing as a larger-chested woman is that I can find an attractive top I find to be quite modest... but because it does not hide the fact that I have a large chest (something I find unnecessary to hide, to be honest) you seem to automatically deem it immodest.

There is nothing immodest about having a large chest. It's immodest to flaunt lots of cleavage, yes, but why should I take the effort to hide the fact I have a large chest?

A couple of thoughts.

Below, in the link, is a research study published in the Women’s Study International Forum that interviewed 8 large breasted women about their daily experiences. What is clear in this study are two things. First, the real life difficulties that women go through that are larger up top and how brutally abusive men can be so such women. Second, and what I am trying to get at, is how these women found pleasure in being larger up top and how some purposely wore clothing to flaunt their femininity – thus illustrating that are “better than” women who have smaller breasts (feminine credibility). One of the women clear communicates that her confidence goes up when she knows she is being gazed on. The article is a good qualitative study, however, there is one quotation of a women with some swear words. I believe the researcher put this in so readers can learn about real world experiences – but the F word is used – so a word of caution.

ScienceDirect - Women’s Studies International Forum : Being large-breasted: women negotiating embodiment

My point is that I think that for some (not all) women having larger breasts can be a real temptation and a real sin because of the pleasure of knowing they may be more “feminine” than others. I can’t remember if I stated this in another post here or not, but even the words “I’m well endowed” highlight this – an endowment is a gift – meaning God has given women who are larger up to a gift. Imagaine how such statement can be hurtful to women who are smaller up top.

Backroads, you message above, which I quoted, makes sense to me. It is not immodest to have large breasts. But in my mind, it is immodest and not following gospel standards to show cleavage – your statement is that it’s immodest to flaunt lots of cleavage. As the two authors of this academic article outline – that breasts are integrated to a social, cultural, and political meaning – that is why in an earlier post I stated that I have always thought that Christian women who are larger up top have a moral imperative to work harder at being modest and I also stated the same related to men (I do not want to be sexiest). That might not be fair to women who are naturally larger – but I think it’s more of a duty. Just like a person who is rich should work, in my mind, as not to bring attention to this and just like person with advanced degrees should not try to exemplify this around others by using “higher-educated” language. Pride is about show one’s elevated status in society.

I am not suggesting that women with large breasts need to always wear burkas and huge clothing – I think some people are distorting my posts so they can attack the distorted areas they create. I also realize that half of this issue lies with men who have problems with women who have larger breasts, be it lust of other temptations/problems. Women who are naturally larger up top did not do anything to effect this. However, I am suggesting that women who have large breasts need to take some extra time to ensure they are not succumbing to a temptation to show off their bodies and need to take a little more time not to draw attention to them because of a societal reality. And I would suggest this is equally related to men also and body image, such as a man who is swollen with muscles who wants to show off his masculine credibility.

[Guest]

I think you need to spend a little less time thinking and reading about boobs.

[slamjet]

First, I have to purchase the study to see what it says.

Second,

Below, in the link, is a research study published in the Women’s Study International Forum that interviewed 8 large breasted women about their daily experiences.

I hardly think 8 women is an acceptable sample for anything.

[dash77]

First, I have to purchase the study to see what it says.

Second,

I hardly think 8 women is an acceptable sample for anything.

Slamjet:

The link worked for you and brought me right to the article without a fee. I am not sure why it would charge you a fee.

Second, regarding the 8 research participants, you may not know the difference between quantitative research (which looks for universal or macro genralizability in a belief that there are one-size-fits-all universal theories) and qualitative research (which looks at the lived experiences of people through interviews and observations and provides small scale micro understandings of lived expereince). There are many known qualitative researchers that have changed the face of academic and professional disciplines from studing a handful of people but in a really in-depth fashion – the famous child psychologist Jean Piaget conducted his research on his own kids. Margret Meed and the contemporary ape and anthropological researcher, Jane Goodall, is another.

[MarginOfError]

I haven't read the study yet, but qualitative research is intended to do one of two things. It may either show the details of a sub-population that the author feels accurately describes the experience of other similar sub populations (such as writing a book about drug dealers in Chicago and suggesting the concepts apply to drug dealers in New York City).

Alternatively, it may describe the experience of a varied group to show how the players in that group contrast with each other. The intent is to give a battery of experiences and insights into the different ways people within that sub-population handle a common issue.

In the study you cite, I suspect the latter case is what the authors intended. If such is the case, the research is making the assumption that the responses to large-breastedness are going to be different, but that the 8 women are representative of all of the ways to respond to the issue. You seem to be focusing on just one or two of the responses--not surprisingly, the ones that support your point of view.

What's my point....how women respond to have large breasts is an individualized response (and probably inconsistent over time). I think you unfairly try to boil it down to just a common response.

[slamjet]

So, you're saying it's qualitative research. Problem is, it's so narrow, small and focused as to exclude and not be able to be statistically tested, because there just is not statistically significant base to work with. Thus, it cannot be used to take it's findings and spread them across a wide swath of people.

What you have is an extremely small sampling of a very narrow focus that is used to formulate a theory that is highly subjective as a prelude to larger research where objective and statistical testing can be done thus coming to a valid and reliable conclusion.

You cannot come to a final, valid conclusion with what you have provided.