Need your comments! Faith is slipping!

[girlygirl]

Okay this is going to be a long story but I need your feedback so bear with me- I have always been 100% mollymormon and believed wholeheartedly that the church was true. A few years back after graduation I went to live with a mormon relative. She decided she didn't want me to live with her anymore and wanted me to go home to my folks. I didn't want to and was going to move in with a mormon roomate. Instead of this being okay she brought the bishop into it. She made him go to my boyfriends family and say I was moving back home without telling me. She then got him to come around to pack my bags. Needless to say we got in an argument and stopped talking. However more drama would come up everyweek and I was stuck in the bishops office with various offenses claimed against me. After about 1 year of rumors flying around about me and being almost called to a church court the bishop said that I was innocent of my offenses and everything claimed against me the church knew was false and shook my hand, and that was it, after all that grief, they washed their hands of the matter and said what i knew all along! (This is a very condensed version of course.)

A year after that I had a boyfriend who forced himself on me. He then felt guilty and made us go to the bishops office. When I was there the bishop acted like it was my fault and talked to us separately and tried his hardest for me to admit that it was my fault and that I was the one to deflower his 'holy priesthood holder!!!'

With these combined experiences looking back and seeing all the stress I went through and wondering why I even kept going to church at all I can't help but feel that this has really shaken my faith. Im scared now of how much the church can control your life. This was a situation that should have been handled between us but instead the church took over it. Every Sunday I was worried of being called into the bishops office, which he did, and made me promise to do certain things. Why did he not just tell her that it was not a church matter? I have been to other churches and felt the spirit, does this mean they are true too? It seems like the church just preaches that it is exclusively for lds purposes only.

I am now married and my husband just got converted to the church. I try on the outside to look faithful but on the inside I feel I don't know if the church is true anymore. I see how the missionaries manipulated his feelings, even saying he could save his whole family if he got baptized (one of the big selling points for my husband who loves his atheist family alot). I walk around church and can't help but feel the fakeness of everyone, and that everyone seems brainwashed. No one is a deviant, and if they are it seems the church is going to intervene. There are so many questions about polygamy and other church's controversial backgrounds that are not taught to us yet we are expected to pay 10% of networth to the church (which I do)...

I love the church but since my bad experiences I just don't feel the same about it anymore. Does anyone have some feedback? Has this happened to anyone else before? Why do I feel like this?

[Backroads]

A quick search on the internet will reveal a thousand and one stories of people's horrible experiences with church authority, missionaries, etc (not that I advise a search.) I don't condone any of these power trips when the experiences are valid. But I don't think we are expected to love and celebrate any of these bad experiences.

You were a victim of some stories that got out of hand. You had mere mortals who handled it and probably even wanted to make themselves look good and helpful and heroic. You feel like you do because you were hurt and you feel the injustice.

You say you love the Church... and I'm guessing by that you mean the Gospel. The Gospel part of the Church is perfect and right. That doesn't meant bad things won't happen or even that church authorities won't mess up from time to time.

As for controversial topics... I had plenty of seminary classes that did discuss quite a few of them. But my view is that Church time is for worship, not for history. Nothing is stopping you from doing the research yourself.

It's been said a million times before, but here it is again "The Church is true, the people aren't." You can't base your testimony on the people of the Church. You need to study and pray about the sure things of the Gospel. Focus on those and your relationship with God.

[girlygirl]

Thanks Backroads for your post. And yes you are right when I say Church I am referring to that I love the Gospel. My problem is this has happened with two bishops now and I just don't want to go through my life having people in authority trampling on me. What would you do in this situation? Just not go into the bishops office?? Thats where I have the problem it seems like I am damned if I do damned if I don't! And you are right I do need to do more historical personal research, although online it seems all that comes up is anti mormon history

[Backroads]

I say kill 'em with kindness. Is it really like the bishop is constantly hounding you to enter his office? Be as nice and friendly as you can, be a great example. And if you do get called in again, I wouldn't reveal anything unless asked. Until you can develop a good relationship with this bishop, feel free to explain you are working on your own spiritual growth. If he asks and you feel comfortable, you might want to explain to him why you feel so apprehensive about church authority--not in a defensive way, but lay out your experience.

The problem with online research is that it's usually in the form of blogs and forums where people have already drawn their own conclusion. That's what I hate about it. I can't research polygamy or blood atonement online without practically being told that I must be offended by it all. In that case, go to the source material and draw your own conclusions. Though I might not be the one to ask on such things as the storybook fan in me loves the idea of dark histories.

Edited July 19, 2011 by Backroads

[The_Phoenix]

Okay this is going to be a long story but I need your feedback so bear with me- I have always been 100% mollymormon and believed wholeheartedly that the church was true. A few years back after graduation I went to live with a mormon relative. She decided she didn't want me to live with her anymore and wanted me to go home to my folks. I didn't want to and was going to move in with a mormon roomate. Instead of this being okay she brought the bishop into it. She made him go to my boyfriends family and say I was moving back home without telling me. She then got him to come around to pack my bags. Needless to say we got in an argument and stopped talking. However more drama would come up everyweek and I was stuck in the bishops office with various offenses claimed against me. After about 1 year of rumors flying around about me and being almost called to a church court the bishop said that I was innocent of my offenses and everything claimed against me the church knew was false and shook my hand, and that was it, after all that grief, they washed their hands of the matter and said what i knew all along! (This is a very condensed version of course.)

A year after that I had a boyfriend who forced himself on me. He then felt guilty and made us go to the bishops office. When I was there the bishop acted like it was my fault and talked to us separately and tried his hardest for me to admit that it was my fault and that I was the one to deflower his 'holy priesthood holder!!!'

With these combined experiences looking back and seeing all the stress I went through and wondering why I even kept going to church at all I can't help but feel that this has really shaken my faith. Im scared now of how much the church can control your life. This was a situation that should have been handled between us but instead the church took over it. Every Sunday I was worried of being called into the bishops office, which he did, and made me promise to do certain things. Why did he not just tell her that it was not a church matter? I have been to other churches and felt the spirit, does this mean they are true too? It seems like the church just preaches that it is exclusively for lds purposes only.

I am now married and my husband just got converted to the church. I try on the outside to look faithful but on the inside I feel I don't know if the church is true anymore. I see how the missionaries manipulated his feelings, even saying he could save his whole family if he got baptized (one of the big selling points for my husband who loves his atheist family alot). I walk around church and can't help but feel the fakeness of everyone, and that everyone seems brainwashed. No one is a deviant, and if they are it seems the church is going to intervene. There are so many questions about polygamy and other church's controversial backgrounds that are not taught to us yet we are expected to pay 10% of networth to the church (which I do)...

I love the church but since my bad experiences I just don't feel the same about it anymore. Does anyone have some feedback? Has this happened to anyone else before? Why do I feel like this?

Your story is filled with various of a lot of common events. But you love such a church? I spend enough time on other sites to recognize much of "your" story. I hope for your sake 9with your 3rd post) you are not making this stuff up. I fear you are really an atheist trying to expose a church you hate, or a believer thinking the ends justifies the means.

[girlygirl]

Phoenix, I don't quite understand what your comment means but if you are implying that I made this stuff up my answer is no.. and it is a bit hurtful that you would imply that my life is one giant cliche as I really do want some truthful honest feedback not road blocks. Most of my problems have been in my twenties with the church and these events such as boyfriends, marriage, and moving out of the parents home all do occur in your twenties- so its not just all a coincidence!

Edited July 19, 2011 by girlygirl

[JudoMinja]

I think there are few people who have not had bad experiences with church authority figures. The thing is, they are human, just like us. They are bound to make mistakes, and some people become overly controling when put in a position of power. Experiences like yours often cause people to fall away from the church, but it does not have to be this way-

You ran across some "bad" people. An overly controlling and manipulative roommate, a couple meddlesome bishops, and an "impatient" boyfriend. These things happen, but they are not reflective of the gospel. We tend to make connections between these bad experiences and our faith when the real connection is between the experiences and the frailty of people.

Your testimony is personal and should be based on the gospel. Do you believe that the message of the LDS church is true? Do you feel the spirit when you abide by its teachings? Are you confident in your testimony and faith enough to overlook the faults and mistakes of "man" and declare to others that you know these things to be true?

Yes, much of LDS "culture" is difficult. Much of any culture is hard to swallow, and I think I'd be more comfortable dealing with gossipy, nosey, overly concerned and controlling church members than I would be in many other social situations...

Many people have been in your shoes. Many people have gone through a "trial of faith" in which other church members appear to be nothing more than fake, two-faced, and/or brainwashed. You are at a crossroads and have two directions to choose from. You can either let your doubts fester and grow and tear you up inside so that you turn away from the church, or you can confront them and overcome them so that you come out a stronger and more faithful person. Should you follow the first path, you will always be bothered by the frailties of your fellow man, will always see their weaknesses. Following the second path will bring peace of mind as you are able to overlook these failings.

[girlygirl]

Judo, yes you are right. It is just disheartening I have very good Baptist, Evangelical and Seven Day Adventist friends and it just seems in our circle I am the one who is weighed down the most by guilt, not being good enough, and stressful responsibilities. I know the best way is not always the easiest but it seems sometimes the load is alot to carry when they seem to get as much fulfillment out of their religion and feel like God loves them regardless and is not judged on a daily basis... Comparing them seems like night and day. I just feel like I put up with so much in the lds religion where as they teach you should be satisfied enough to have God in your heart- if only it was that easy!

[Suzie]

Thats where I have the problem it seems like I am damned if I do damned if I don't! And you are right I do need to do more historical personal research, although online it seems all that comes up is anti mormon history

I am a LDS history 'junkie'. Please, if you have any questions post them and I'll be glad to take a look and reply if I know the answer. Good luck.

[HiJolly]

Okay this is going to be a long story but I need your feedback so bear with me- I have always been 100% mollymormon and believed wholeheartedly that the church was true.

That pretty well describes my youth also, except I was a "peter priesthood".

A few years back after graduation I went to live with a mormon relative. She decided she didn't want me to live with her anymore and wanted me to go home to my folks.

That sounds reasonable to me. You don't want to toss a relative out on the street, and she (your relative) probably wanted your parents to finish raising you (implying your immaturity at the time, I'm thinking).

I didn't want to

bingo

and was going to move in with a mormon roomate. Instead of this being okay she brought the bishop into it. She made him go to my boyfriends family and say I was moving back home without telling me. She then got him to come around to pack my bags. Needless to say we got in an argument and stopped talking. However more drama would come up everyweek and I was stuck in the bishops office with various offenses claimed against me. After about 1 year of rumors flying around about me and being almost called to a church court the bishop said that I was innocent of my offenses and everything claimed against me the church knew was false and shook my hand, and that was it, after all that grief, they washed their hands of the matter and said what i knew all along! (This is a very condensed version of course.)

Who is "he" -- the bishop or the boyfriend? Too bad the Church got involved, I agree -- but in the end I would think this would be a very satisfying conclusion. I mean, crap happens to everyone, even when family/friends try to help, so you can't resent the way things went down -- it's just the way life is. So...

A year after that I had a boyfriend who forced himself on me.

I'm betting you weren't keeping the rule to never be alone with a person of the opposite sex... Did you know that rule? I sure hope you did. Regardless, I'm sorry that happened.

He then felt guilty and made us go to the bishops office.

Good for him!

When I was there the bishop acted like it was my fault and talked to us separately and tried his hardest for me to admit that it was my fault and that I was the one to deflower his 'holy priesthood holder!!!'

There are some bishops/stake presidents like that -- I hope they are becoming fewer and fewer, though. Tough break!

With these combined experiences looking back and seeing all the stress I went through and wondering why I even kept going to church at all I can't help but feel that this has really shaken my faith.

It should have nothing to do with your faith.

Im scared now of how much the church can control your life.

Glad you know it's *people* in the Church that control, not the Church itself.

This was a situation that should have been handled between us but instead the church took over it.

Apparently your relative made it the Church's business. Bad on her. OTOH if you'd gone home like she wanted, none of the ensuing drama would've occurred (hopefully).

Every Sunday I was worried of being called into the bishops office, which he did, and made me promise to do certain things.

Bad things? Probably not... If you look happy to see the Bishop, these things don't usually happen.

Why did he not just tell her that it was not a church matter?

Really? You don't get that bishops are people too? You expect him to be a better person than you are? Why?

I have been to other churches and felt the spirit, does this mean they are true too?

Yes, they are. Absolutely.

It seems like the church just preaches that it is exclusively for lds purposes only.

God allows us (*all* of us, even bishops) to mis-understand. It's a part of agency. While it may seem self-serving, it is not, really. It is for the benefit of the membership.

I am now married and my husband just got converted to the church. I try on the outside to look faithful but on the inside I feel I don't know if the church is true anymore.

Normal maturation process. Welcome to the way things are.

I see how the missionaries manipulated his feelings, even saying he could save his whole family if he got baptized (one of the big selling points for my husband who loves his atheist family alot).

Do you disagree? As a member, he can ensure that their temple work is done, right? True, if I had been in on the conversation I wouldn't have said it in those words "save his whole family", but it's reasonably close to what I might have said.

I walk around church and can't help but feel the fakeness of everyone, and that everyone seems brainwashed.

I think maybe this is just in your head. A few bad experiences, and now "everyone" is fake? Sheesh.

No one is a deviant, and if they are it seems the church is going to intervene.

I feel bad for you. Hope you can eliminate such stinkin' thinkin' in your head. We're all sinners. Every one of us. But most of us are trying, you know? Trying, and failing, and trying some more.

There are so many questions about polygamy and other church's controversial backgrounds that are not taught to us yet we are expected to pay 10% of networth to the church (which I do)...

"networth" is a lie. Why are you stating a lie?

I've patiently spent decades (on my own time, of course) on things like polygamy and church history. 99% of the garbage is bias and resentment and lack of a good heart. I know. The 1% is fascinating and I love it!

I love the church but since my bad experiences I just don't feel the same about it anymore. Does anyone have some feedback? Has this happened to anyone else before? Why do I feel like this?

Feedback given. You feel this way ... I'd better not read your mind, come to think of it... Done enough of that already.

Best wishes to you, and know this -- God (Heavenly Father & Mother) love you. But they're not stupid -- they know you need to grow and learn and have crappy experiences. Try to see the better side of things.

HiJolly

father of 3 daughters -- 24, 20 & 16 years old.

[girlygirl]

Suzie- I will message you with some of my questions, thanks for your offer!

Hijolly- thanks for breaking it down! Yes you are right I definitely do have my backup after these experiences. It is hard to keep opening up when you have had your feelings trampled on so many times. Despite a few questions I just don't understand about Church, I do sincerely love the gospel. However it is hard to trust those in authority after these problems and it is hard for myself to completely open myself up to being happy with the church.

[HiJolly]

In regards to the leadership, I honestly believe that the LDS Church has more sincere *leadership*, percentage wise, than any other mainstream Christian religion.

Thank God we don't send our Bishops to protestant seminaries!

HJ

[slamjet]

I've had to deal with some of the same as you. Authorities doing things improperly and/or not within the Church guidelines. I also had to deal with at least one member (that I know of) going to my Bishop and telling him he didn't want me attending the ward because of past mistakes and misdeeds I've made. However, I take to heart D&C 1:30

"And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually—"

The Church as a whole is the Lords church. The individuals within the Church are imperfect and will make judgments and mistakes. But I've had to grow a very thick skin and build my testimony on my own personal Christ and what his Atonement means and does for me, as an individual and how much I've learned and grown by studying the Gospel, especially the Book of Mormon. Then whatever everyone else has to say, or whatever else everyone decides to do I let slide off of me with compassion and understanding that they are trying to do the best they know how. And if it's hurtful and wrong, well, there's an eternal perspective I've gained that helps me swallow it all and move on.

So concentrating on the individuals in the Church will do you no good. Whenever anyone is put to our test, they will always fail. Pray, read the scriptures and stay active in the church and remember that the witness from the Spirit does not come until after the trial of your faith. This is your trial, hang in there because in the end, you will benefit immensely from it.

[HiJolly]

Awesome comment, slamjet. :-)

HJ

[JudoMinja]

Judo, yes you are right. It is just disheartening I have very good Baptist, Evangelical and Seven Day Adventist friends and it just seems in our circle I am the one who is weighed down the most by guilt, not being good enough, and stressful responsibilities. I know the best way is not always the easiest but it seems sometimes the load is alot to carry when they seem to get as much fulfillment out of their religion and feel like God loves them regardless and is not judged on a daily basis... Comparing them seems like night and day. I just feel like I put up with so much in the lds religion where as they teach you should be satisfied enough to have God in your heart- if only it was that easy!

"The grass is always greener"... Would you be good friends with Baptists, Catholics, Muslims, etc, members of ANY other religion if they were NOT good, happy, loving people? There are good people like this in every religion, but that does not mean everyone in their particular religion is like them. I'm pretty sure that if you grew up in any of these other religions you would be experiencing the same problems you are facing now.

You can get "fulfillment" out of just about any religion. I believe they all have at least a portion of truth to them and most followers want to better themselves and others. They are good people who just want to do what is right. While you recognize that there is a separation between the people of the church and the gospel of the church, I think you are only now really facing and coming to terms with that separation. That is why you are feeling this discord. You need to dive back into your studies and really decide for yourself whether you believe "this" gospel to be true or if you think another religion is more in line with the feelings of your heart. Your testimony is faltering because it was partially built on something false- the unsure foundation of the "perfect" people in the church.

Also, something much more common among LDS than members of other relgions is that feeling that you are never doing enough... This is because we put more focus on the work we need to do to obtain salvation and perfection than other religions. I think many LDS members do not have a real solid understanding of the GRACE of God and the power of the atonement, and because of this they are always struggling to reach that "unattainable" goal of perfection. This has resulted in a rather "pushy" culture with many members feeling guilty over tiny things and suspecting that they are always falling short. I would suggest putting some time into a more intensive study of the balance between works and grace.

There are many things I don't like about the "church" when I am focusing on individual people... so I just do my best to put those things aside. I stock it up to their imperfections and something over which I have no control and just leave it at that. If I really don't like that individual and can't get along with them, I just avoid them. Then I focus on myself. What are MY imperfections that I CAN control and improve on? What can I do to make church a more welcoming environment to those seeking the gospel? How can I build-up both myself and those around me?

Try to turn things around- If you feel like you are being judged, what are you doing that might cause others to feel as though you are judging them? If you feel weighed down by guilt, what can you do to help lift the guilt of another? If you are feeling like this road is hard, what can you do to ease the path of someone else?

I've found that I get a very different experience at church when I am more focused on what I can do to help others than what I feel others should be doing to help me. I opt to ignore things that could cause offense and focus on the good. I'll bet thats what your good friends from other religions do too... Even when I am struggling through my hardest times, I am striving to do something to help someone else. And remember... living righteously was not meant to be easy. There will always be struggles. There will always be difficulties. And sometimes, the source of those troubles and difficulties will be people.

[applepansy]

I only read your original post.

My only comment is that sometimes we have to separate the church and its people. The Church is Christ's church. We're all imperfect beings.

I'm sorry you're had such a terrible time.

[pam]

Suzie- I will message you with some of my questions, thanks for your offer!

Much better to keep the questions out in the open.

[Suzie]

Much better to keep the questions out in the open.

Ooops I replied to the PM already. Sowie.

Girlygirl, please feel free to add more questions in this thread, thanks. :)

[shine7]

girly girl, sometimes we get a bishop that can really hurt us, I have had that experience.....do not base your testimony on that, but rather on Christ. Right now our ward has a bishop.....good man but no 'bedside manner' (he is a doctor). I know in my tender emotional/mental state that I can not handle anyone being unkind to me right now; I pray for him, but stay away.

Christ is true; strive to focus on Him, give your challenges to Him every day, put them in His capable hands and 'watch' as they melt away......HE is the place to put your trust and hope and gratitude.

Edited July 20, 2011 by shine7

[Guest Sachi001]

First of sorry to hear your situation and the feeling of being unjustly treated.

Hmmm...looks like when you generalizing as everyone is brainwashed such as myself. Shows quite a bit of resentment. Trust me I'm not brainwashed by your assertion. The resentment and underlying anger is clouding your judgment. You need to learn the power of true forgiveness, and letting go of the past. This is a chain that Lucifer binds you with. It's one of his tools. It will drag you and others down and away from exaltation.

You seem to think everyone in the church needs to be perfect including Bishops, and more than likely you probably think the President of the church himself should be also. However no one is, and they will make even huge mistakes. That's why we have Perfecting the Saints. Understand?

I don't know all the details of your life. Maybe your leaving out specifics that can tell more. It is the fact that your resentment is already working against your husband, and soon you will begin the poison if not already.

I've studied the church in detail as a convert. Go read my testimony on my account page. I'm telling you this church is true. It has the proper answers to many questions other churches can't answer. The Prophet JS has revelated principles of the mysteries of HF, and coincides with science theories today. Decades before they were introduced in the science field.

I suggest you read Spencer Kimball's "The Miracle of Forgiveness". There you will find your answers that you need. One more thing your salvation is not dependent upon what others think and do. It's upon how you think and do. It's all about your relationship with HF and how to overcome life's challenges, and there are many unfair ones. Even the ones you think are unjust. Just remember if God were to introduce you to others. What would you want him to say about you?

Jesus Christ himself was wronged in so many ways. Even by men with honorable intentions. However he forgave everyone, and that means every single brainwashed fool while crucified on the cross. Now pay attention to the atonement, and learn something! Christ did not whine, and feel sorry for himself. He perfected his soul by rising above the pettiness of man, and exalted himself.

Are you gonna keep moaning about the unfair lot you have been dealt with, or are you going to learn what the master taught via the atonement? Forgiveness and rising toward exaltation.

[Backroads]

Much better to keep the questions out in the open.

Don't we have some moderator-approved thread somewhere for such questions?

[girlygirl]

Sashi- it sounds like you have never come into a road bump with church authority, but when you do, it really disrupts your faith. I don't think you understand that it is very hard to turn the other cheek when a major part of your life is being trampled on by someone you need to respect and look up to. Because this has happened to me twice now, yes the experiences have poisoned me, perhaps it is pride, but it is hard to feel like a doormat when people above you do not judge you correctly, assume wrong things, and cause alot of emotional pain. Are you just supposed to 'go with the flow' and suck it up? I see what everyone is saying that everyone is human. But it is hard to be 'ruled' in away by someone who does not judge you correctly and puts you through alot of unnecessary hurt. Church should not make you feel like that!

[girlygirl]

What I gather from everyones comments is that I need to put my faith in doctrine not other peoples testimony which is true, I do get alot of my strength from other people when I really need to secure myself better. However it is hard to be affiliated with an organization that has different levels of priesthood which governs you, sometimes incorrectly, and you are just supposed to let them judge you incorrectly and keep coming to church with a smile on your face like everything is okay? To me that is not okay.

[Backroads]

Sashi- it sounds like you have never come into a road bump with church authority, but when you do, it really disrupts your faith. I don't think you understand that it is very hard to turn the other cheek when a major part of your life is being trampled on by someone you need to respect and look up to. Because this has happened to me twice now, yes the experiences have poisoned me, perhaps it is pride, but it is hard to feel like a doormat when people above you do not judge you correctly, assume wrong things, and cause alot of emotional pain. Are you just supposed to 'go with the flow' and suck it up? I see what everyone is saying that everyone is human. But it is hard to be 'ruled' in away by someone who does not judge you correctly and puts you through alot of unnecessary hurt. Church should not make you feel like that!

No, Church should not. But you are not in a position to change those past bishops or the Church. No one on this thread has said those bishops were right in how they treated you. But it's not a good reason to assume the worst of everyone in the Church. I know you realize you are doing so, but I have yet to see an attitude from you that you believe that is just as wrong as what the bishops did to you. They judged you incorrectly; if you are truly bothered by that kind of behavior, you would not do the same to others.

No, do not feel like you have to go with the flow and suck it up. Stand up for yourself. You haven't said what this current bishop is making you do. Tell him where you stand. Third time is a charm. I'm getting the impression (and please correct me I'm a wrong) that you would rather play the victim and complain about how the Church is treating you.

[estradling75]

girlygirl... Life is full of test and challenges.

In my opinion one of the worst challenges is when we have problems with a leader or with something that they have done. Because there is only so much that you can do about it before you reach the point were you risk throwing all that is good and true about the church away because of it. Don't do this.

You have made your case to the bishop, now take what faith you have left and take it to the Lord in prayer. Turn it over to him, let the Lord deal with it. Then ask him to help you forgive and to let it go. Its not easy to do this, the natural man rebels against it. But there is a miracle waiting here for you if you can reach it.