How Do You Know?

[Lindy]

When God says something to me, and I say what God tells me, what I say is also the absolute truth… even if other people don’t agree with what I am telling them or don’t believe God said what God said.

Ray, I understand what you are saying... really I do I feel the same way. Sometimes it's hard to make yourself heard when you KNOW what you feel or KNOW what you heard from the Lord. I understand that you are the type of person who want's to share that knowledge with everyone so that all will know the truths as you know it. ..... LOL I grew up with agnostics... I would have very good discussions on religion with my step brother...and learned to accept his views were his views... and try as I might I couldn't sway him to even contemplate mine.

UNTIL there was an incident/accident at the high school... an explosion in the Chem Lab..... he could have been in the middle of it....and as injured as the one mixing the "experiment". As he was standing there... he heard a voice tell him to move away from his friend. to move... move back.... move back NOW. And he listened... and moved back.. ...... he was still blown against the door by the blast, but all he received was loss of hearing for awhile. The other guy was really messed up.

As he was relaying the story to me... I told him.... THAT was the Holy Ghost talking to you...THAT is the little voice I was telling you about. I think that is the only insight my brother ever had to what I was talking about and what I felt. He's still agnostic as far as I know.... but there was that little seed of thought planted in his mind that day.

Sometimes that's all that needs to be done.... one thought .... than it's up to them to pursue that thought if they want to. I believe that non believers can hear GOD.... and that helps them to help themselves and others. I dont' condemn them for not following up on anything. That is their right...of free choice.

Just because people don't believe in the same thing..follow the same rules... doesn't mean they are doomed to follow satan.... Lots of good Non LDS out there Ray... doesn' t mean they are being helped out by satan.

Don't know WHERE that rehash of life in the past came from.... but somehow it seemed relevent.

[shanstress70]

The other guy was really messed up.

As he was relaying the story to me... I told him.... THAT was the Holy Ghost talking to you...THAT is the little voice I was telling you about.

Honey Child, you KNOW I'm going to ask this question. Don't get mad at me, please. As you and many others know, this is the biggest stumbling block I have with issues of faith.

Please help me understand why you think your stepbrother got the message from God when the other guy didn't. Was your brother more righteous? Why would God think your stepbrother is anymore deserving of such a warning?

[Ray]

Lots of good Non LDS out there Ray... doesn' t mean they are being helped out by satan.

If people are being led away from the truth, including being "helped out" of the truth that is in the (LDS) Church, (and the word "led" is an active word), then it is ultimately Satan who is responsible for helping to lead them away from the truth, even though it isn't always Satan himself who is helping to lead other people away from the truth.

And yes, I know, there are very many well intentioned people who really don't know they are helping to lead themselves and some other people away from the truth... who simply share what they believe and think it is really the truth.

Case in point, Lindy, is what YOU said that I quoted, which is something NOT true that is helping to lead away from the truth, and the other people who believe you are also being led away from the truth... even though I know you really don't and didn't intend to do that.

Really I do. :)

[Ray]

I know you aren't asking me, so i appologize if this is out of place. My question would be, are we sure the other guy didn't get the warning but just refused to listen to a voice in his head?

That is a very good and powerful point, because almost everybody can sense His promptings, but a LOT of people don't know they should pay attention... and some will even actually "refuse" to pay attention to His promptings, thinking whatever it is in their minds that keeps them from Him.

[Lindy]

<div class='quotemain'>

The other guy was really messed up.

As he was relaying the story to me... I told him.... THAT was the Holy Ghost talking to you...THAT is the little voice I was telling you about.

Honey Child, you KNOW I'm going to ask this question. Don't get mad at me, please. As you and many others know, this is the biggest stumbling block I have with issues of faith.

Please help me understand why you think your stepbrother got the message from God when the other guy didn't. Was your brother more righteous? Why would God think your stepbrother is anymore deserving of such a warning?

Shanstress...have I EVER really gotten mad with you I enjoy you and appreciate you for who you are.. and I think I'll answer yours and SoulSearchers question of

I know you aren't asking me, so i appologize if this is out of place. My question would be, are we sure the other guy didn't get the warning but just refused to listen to a voice in his head?

at the same time.

I am not sure that the other guy didnt' get a warning... or maybe he did and he chose to ignore it. Maybe the warning was "STOP mixing the chemicals" and maybe he just didn't listen until it was too late. I don't know,

I never talked to him about it. Sad truth is he wasn't one of my favorite people and I never even thought of going to talk to him in the hospital.

[shanstress70]

<div class='quotemain'>

Lots of good Non LDS out there Ray... doesn' t mean they are being helped out by satan.

If people are being led away from the truth, including being "helped out" of the truth that is in the (LDS) Church, (and the word "led" is an active word), then it is ultimately Satan who is responsible for helping to lead them away from the truth, even though it isn't always Satan himself who is helping to lead other people away from the truth.

And yes, I know, there are very many well intentioned people who really don't know they are helping to lead themselves and some other people away from the truth... who simply share what they believe and think it is really the truth.

Case in point, Lindy, is what YOU said that I quoted, which is something NOT true that is helping to lead away from the truth, and the other people who believe you are also being led away from the truth... even though I know you really don't and didn't intend to do that.

Really I do. :)

Then there are those of us who know the truth, and find that truth outside of the LDS church, and do not believe that LDS have the truth. But I love many of them in spite of their confusion.

I suppose one day we'll find out who's right. If you're right, I'll be all, "God, why did you tell me what you told me about leaving the LDS church?"

Thanks for your explanation Lindy! I can agree with that possibility. :)

[Lindy]

and in a very small childish voice I say....... "rice pudding....may I have mo please?"

[shanstress70]

and in a very small childish voice I say....... "rice pudding....may I have mo please?"

But of course, my Dear!

[Ray]

I suppose one day we'll find out who's right. If you're right, I'll be all, "God, why did you tell me what you told me about leaving the LDS church?"

Try carrying that thought just a little bit further. What would His answer be if I really am right?

Can you see why I say some people are deceived?

I have simply been telling you that God speaks to me, and that I go to Him, not you, for my faith.

And then you go and get all offended???

Sheeesh. Get real.

[shanstress70]

<div class='quotemain'>

I suppose one day we'll find out who's right. If you're right, I'll be all, "God, why did you tell me what you told me about leaving the LDS church?"

Try carrying that thought just a little bit further. What would His answer be if I really am right?

Can you see why I say some people are deceived?

I have simply been telling you that God speaks to me, and that I go to Him, not you, for my faith.

And then you go and get all offended???

Sheeesh. Get real.

Ray Ray Ray Ray Ray. I get offended bc you tell people they are wrong. I don't constantly tell you are wrong, until I feel I'm forced to in order for you to see how you come across to people.

And Ray, what would His answer be if I really am right? And what would you say to that?

[Ray]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

I suppose one day we'll find out who's right. If you're right, I'll be all, "God, why did you tell me what you told me about leaving the LDS church?"

Try carrying that thought just a little bit further. What would His answer be if I really am right?

Can you see why I say some people are deceived?

I have simply been telling you that God speaks to me, and that I go to Him, not you, for my faith.

And then you go and get all offended???

Sheeesh. Get real.

Ray Ray Ray Ray Ray. I get offended bc you tell people they are wrong. I don't constantly tell you are wrong, until I feel I'm forced to in order for you to see how you come across to people.

Shannon. Shannon. Shannon. Shannon. If and when I ever mention the fact that other people are wrong, I only say that when I know the truth from God. And even then I do not "harp" on the fact that other people are wrong, as you seem to be implying, I mainly talk about what I know and how to find out.

For instance, if someone were to tell me that gorillas fly in the sky, I would say wrong, they do not have wings and that is impossible. And then I would go on to talk about what I know to be true about gorillas, and hardly ever mention the fact that people, either one person or several persons, think they can fly, while I am trying to share the truth. I'd simply share and go on to explain what I know to be true about gorillas, and explain how I came to know what I know to be true.

And Ray, what would His answer be if I really am right? And what would you say to that?

Did you think about my question or did you simply turn it around?

I'm curious to know if you can relate to what I've been saying?

Heh, and I really don't worry too much about the people I know who are wrong. I ask God to know the truth and then I share what I know to be true, and I also share what I know about how to find out. :)

[StrawberryFields]

Shan, Ray has very strong feelings and sometimes he doesn't know how to say things without the "you're wrong" impression but thats just "Ray" I have seen him do this with those of us who are also members of the church. I would prefer not to tell someone they are wrong unless, they are going in the wrong direction and I am their passenger or something like that.

We are all wired differently. I personally think that Ray would cause a lot less contention for himself and others if he could "agree to just disagree." Although I think Ray goes overboard from time to time, I do admire his devotion to a good debate.

[Ray]

Something else about me is that I do not like to agree that to disagree with others is fine and okay with me.

I would rather that all of us be just as God wants us to be and to me that means that we should all be “one” and “one’ with God.

Heh, that’s an idea. We can all be Musketeers. All for one and one for all, and all for God!!!

And btw, there were more than three.

But yes, I know, some people will not agree, but I don’t want you to think that’s “okay” or “fine” with me.

[StrawberryFields]

Something else about me is that I do not like to agree that to disagree with others is fine and okay with me.

I would rather that all of us be just as God wants us to be and to me that means that we should all be “one” and “one’ with God.

Heh, that’s an idea. We can all be Musketeers. All for one and one for all, and all for God!!!

And btw, there were more than three.

But yes, I know, some people will not agree, but I don’t want you to think that’s “okay” or “fine” with me.

Maybe we could get a Doctors opinion on this. What is the diagnosis when someone insists that they are right and everyone else is wrong? No, no, no, I don't mean childish.

Is there a doctor in the house?

[Ray]

Hmm. Who has that problem?. I have never said everyone else is wrong about everything. Just the truths they think they know because of what they were taught by people other than God.

Delusional, maybe?

And btw, Strawberry, I have a question for you: Do you really know that you really know some truths?

If you do what do you say to the people who disagree with you... if you choose not to cop out on them?

Do you infer that you may not really know the truth?

p.s. And why do you want a doctor's opinion? Do you really think they know? Do you have that much confidence in what they are taught in college?

[StrawberryFields]

And btw, Strawberry, I have a question for you: Do you really know that you really know some truths?

If you do what do you say to the people who disagree with you... if you choose not to cop out on them?

Do you infer that you may not really know the truth?

Ray,

You are really okay in my book. :)

Basically my truths are just that, mine. Sure, I will share them with another if I feel so inclined. I don't however, feel the need to shove my beliefs down someones throat just because I can. I believe in a gentler way. To teach by example, to show love and consideration like our Savior would do. I believe that we will all need to answer for our actions, but even more importantly,for the intent behind them. If 1someones intent is to just be right at all costs I think they have missed the boat completely.

[Jason]

I'm pretty sure Ray missed the boat.

[Dr T]

Hello all,

I had to step back for a minute. Ray, your "I know what God has told me is true" idea against anyone else's "I know what God has to me is true" argument has not been answered. You just repeatedly say that you ask God and He gives you assurance. What of everyone else who prays to God and get the assurance that LDS beliefs are false? What do we do then? Continue to say, "I right!" "No, I'm right!!" ad infinitum? I don’t think that everyone can be correct. I do believe in absolutes. I haven’t done much study on relativism but on the surface it feels good but I don’t think that it holds up. As Shan said, “What happens in the end”? If LDS is wrong, you guys are in a heap of trouble. In Christians are wrong, they still make it to the lower level of heaven. Weigh your options. I also agree with you on your point that God's truth is God's truth consistently and without error. Were are we to go from here?

Lovingly,

Dr. T

[sgallan]

Hmm. Who has that problem?. I have never said everyone else is wrong about everything. Just the truths they think they know because of what they were taught by people other than God.

It's been my experience that religiously arrogant folks tend to chase off far more people from what they proclaim to want them to have, then they attract to their faith. It is as if those people are saying.... you are stupid, you have no value, your opinion doesn't count for crap, and you had better listen to me because next to God I am the way.

Are you one of those people Ray?

[Lindy]

Rice Pudding anyone?

Cherry Cheesecake?

Boston Creme Pie?

Death By Chocolate Ice Cream Sundae?

Angel Food Cake!!!!! with strawberries and whipped cream!!!!

[Dr T]

Cheesecake

and Angel Food Cake!!!!! with strawberries and whipped cream!!!! I second that Lindy.

[boyando]

I'll have just a couple of scoops of ice cream. I'm on a diet. I'm always on a diet.

Can a guy admit that he is on a diet and still be a manly man?

[shanstress70]

I'll have just a couple of scoops of ice cream. I'm on a diet. I'm always on a diet.

Can a guy admit that he is on a diet and still be a manly man?

Most definitely it's OK. Better than not caring or trying.

[Palerider]

lets throw in some apple pie to go with the ice cream........

[Dr T]

Hot apple pie.