Children and Testimonies

[KitCarson]

Why do we teach children to go forward in Fast and Testimony Meeting and recite a memorized statement? Primary-aged children get up each Fast and Testimony Meeting and recite the same memorized phrases: "I know this is the True Church; I know that Joseph Smith was a prophet; I know the Book of Mormon is true; I know that Thomas S. Monson is a prophet; and I love my family."

They don't KNOW any of the things of which they testify. They know that they have been taught those phrases by parents and primary teachers, but they have no frame of reference to even understand what they are saying. Rarely do any of these "testimonies" mention Jesus Christ or Heavenly Father. How can they honestly state that they know the BOM is true when they can barely read and haven't read it for themselves?

A few weeks ago a mother proudly held her 3-year-old up to the mic to recite this memorized testimony. Most of what she said was unintelligible.

I feel this is totally inappropriate and a mockery to God. It might make their parents proud of them and the kids might feel good about "performing", but I am totally uninspired by these repititions. I would rather see children repeating a memorized scripture that is meaningful to them or stating simple gospel truths that they understand than have them parrot identical "testimonies" one after another.

One member of my ward complained that too much of testimony meeting is a "thankathon." That people should stick to the "church's approved format" of a testimony. SAY WHAT? The church has outlined for members what a testimony should be?

Testimonies should come from the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and from the heart of the believer. Anything that brings comfort, builds faith, and edifies others should be the content of testimonies. Why limit the content of testimony meetings to repetitive recitals of beliefs?

[Guest gopecon]

Some units do discourage children from coming up unless they can do so on their own. Sometimes the Primary will have testimony time as an alternative to the children going up. In wards with large primary groups I think this can be a good idea. I wouldn't go so far as to say that coached testimonies are a mockery to God. Often the act of testifying to something will serve as a great way to strengthen a testimony.

As far as the "approved format" goes...There's no set template for testimonies, but there are guidelines that will occasionaly be touched on in Conference or the Ensign. A testimony is not "Anything that brings comfort, builds faith, and edifies others", it is a declaration of belief. Often short anecdotes can be shared to make a point, but venturing too far from that gets into territory beyond what the meeting is intended for. It's not just an open microphone time. It's not a time for someone to give a sermon about how everyone else needs to be better about X, and its not a time for extended travelogs about vacation or the various woes afflicting someone.

I don't think I've ever seen a testimony stopped because it was being done incorrectly, but it is more enjoyable and often a more spiritual experience when people try to stick with what was intended.

[Vort]

Why do we teach children to go forward in Fast and Testimony Meeting and recite a memorized statement?

We don't, unless you have a midget in there with you.

Primary-aged children get up each Fast and Testimony Meeting and recite the same memorized phrases: "I know this is the True Church; I know that Joseph Smith was a prophet; I know the Book of Mormon is true; I know that Thomas S. Monson is a prophet; and I love my family."

Not in any ward I've been a member of for the last 25 years.

They don't KNOW any of the things of which they testify.

Not trying to rail on you here, but you bring up an interesting philosophical point: What does anyone "know"? What does that even mean?

What do children know?

Do they know their parents love them?

Do they know how to get home?

Do they know who the president is?

Do they know how to vacuum the floor?

Do they know arithmetic?

Seriously, what do they "know"? Children "know" exactly what they have been taught. If I have taught my child how to perform simple addition so that he can reliably do the math and get the right answer, and if he has some concept of numbers representing amounts and addition as an operation on numbers that conglomerates those amounts, is it fair to say my child "knows" that aspect of arithmetic? I think so.

Similarly, if I have taught my child who God is and taught him how to pray, and I have taught him to trust his feelings in deciding whether something is good or bad to do, and he has some ability to discriminate between good and bad choices and feels good about making good choices, is it fair to say my child "knows" God?

If I have taught my child who Joseph Smith is and what the Church's history is, and I have taken him to Church for his whole life and taught him the basics of the gospel, and we have read scriptures together every night for most of his life, and he has prayed every day and night, is it fair to say my child "knows" the Church is true?

What do you think you know? Do you "know" math? Arithmetic? If so, can you discourse in length on number theory and the correspondence between algorithm-based operations such as long division and the basic meaning and functionality of mathematical symbols in a system?

Do you know where Pakistan is? How do you know that? Have you ever been to Pakistan? How do you know people aren't just making it up?

Do you know if men have been to the moon? How? Have you ever been? There are conspiracy theorists who insist that the Apollo project was completely staged. Do you know they are wrong? How?

Do you "know" the Church is true? How? What if your testimony is false? What if that revelation you think you received was really a brain parasite causing hallucinations? What if we all really live in a vast computer matrix without any actual physicality? What if pigs have wings?

At what point do you draw the line between "I know" and "I believe"? And by what reason do you impose such a distinction on others?

99.9% of what we "know" is simply regurgitation of what we have been taught by others. It is a meaningless constraint to say that children aren't allowed to say they "know" what their parents have taught them just because they haven't met some arbitrary bar of experience that you have set for them.

I feel this is totally inappropriate and a mockery to God. It might make their parents proud of them and the kids might feel good about "performing", but I am totally uninspired by these repititions. I would rather see children repeating a memorized scripture that is meaningful to them or stating simple gospel truths that they understand than have them parrot identical "testimonies" one after another.

I don't disagree with your sentiments. Our leaders have asked us not to bring our children up to the podium in testimony meetings to recite such rote sentences. But I also think there is a large spectrum of human experience, and any one of us knows only a small slice of that experience. I don't think it is our place to say what a person, including a child, "knows" and what he doesn't really "know".

[Madriglace]

I have to disagree ... the veil is so much thinner for children than for we adults ... who are we to say they don't know? Many years ago some family friends had a small (3-4) granddaughter who kept telling everyone she was going to go to the temple like her friend Mary ... the family discussed it and couldn't figure out who her friend Mary was so they asked her ... she took her grandmother by the hand and took her to the living room and point to the nativity set under the Christmas tree and said "I am going to the temple like my friend Mary". You can never convince me that these little spirits so recently released from loving arms don't know ... any more than you can convince me that I don't know ... we are each a differnt places in our progression ... children do know ... it's just that once they start listening to adult telling them they don't know they begin to question!

[NeuroTypical]

95% of the young kid testimonies I've heard, is the rote memorization stuff. 3% is something almost completely non-testimonylike, which provokes reactions from laughter to horror, depending on whether the kid is talking about how he hates peas and likes candy, or how he wishes daddy wouldn't yell any more or whatever.

The remaining 2% are some of the most simply inspiring and powerful testimonies I've ever had the good fortune to witness.

[JudoMinja]

I have been in several wards where the Bishop would start the fast and testimony meeting with a little "disclaimer" that we all try to keep our testimonies brief, to the point, and in line with what a testimony really is. As gopecon stated, a testimony is really nothing more than a statement of belief. Technically, the little children going up to bear their "recited" testimonies are bearing testimony more "accurately" than many of the adults that sometimes go up front. Whether or not the children truly understand and believe what they are saying is debatable, but those little recited testimonies ARE short, sweet, statements of belief.

I agree that a child should not really be encouraged to bear their testimony if they do not really understand it, but who are we to decide what they understand? Sometimes we get too many "thank yous" and "I love yous" in children's borne testimonies and they stray abit from their intended purpose, but is that really so bad? I actually enjoy hearing the children's testimonies, especially if you can tell they aren't being "coached" through it too much. I agree that they should try to stick to what the actually know and understand, like maybe testimonies of prayer or feeling the love of the Spirit, but again we don't really know how much they understand and don't understand. I think my testimony was much more basic and simple when I was a child, but also much stronger.

The "testimonies" that bother me are more often ones borne by adults and/or teenagers who share a long story about their experiences that week, or spend more time expressing gratitude about something than bearing an actual testimony. A little anecdote that explains why you believe as you do or something that helped strengthen your testimony is great, but it should be kept as short and to the point as possible, with the focus being on WHAT was strengthened. Such moments really bring the Spirit into the meeting and you can feel it witnessing the truth of what is being spoken. Sometimes our meetings are filled with distracting "travelouges" even after the Bishop has given his disclaimer, but I think we tend to steer more toward better, stronger, more spiritual meetings when we get a good reminder of what we are supposed to be doing. I also think it helps if we set a good example in bearing our own testimonies and teach our children what it means to bear their testimony. Part of teaching is letting them practice. :)

[Dravin]

Why do we teach children to go forward in Fast and Testimony Meeting and recite a memorized statement? Primary-aged children get up each Fast and Testimony Meeting and recite the same memorized phrases: "I know this is the True Church; I know that Joseph Smith was a prophet; I know the Book of Mormon is true; I know that Thomas S. Monson is a prophet; and I love my family."

We've been counseled not to do such, not to have children go up and recite what a parent is telling them in their ear. Also, it seems your complaint is about the whispermony rather than the language used (memorized phrases). It's not unreasonable for a child having learned how to bear testimony in primary and at home with such phrases to use them when they bear testimony. Heck, those phrases find their way into young adult and adult testimonies.

One member of my ward complained that too much of testimony meeting is a "thankathon." That people should stick to the "church's approved format" of a testimony. SAY WHAT? The church has outlined for members what a testimony should be?

No, they've outlined what a testimony is. A rambling list of all the stuff you are thankful for, recounting your latest health trials, or telling everyone how your trip went is not a testimony.

For instance Elder Oaks said:

A testimony of the gospel is not a travelogue, a health log, or an expression of love for family members. It is not a sermon. President Kimball taught that the moment we begin preaching to others, our testimony is ended.

Link: Testimony - general-conference

Elder Ballard:

Our testimony meetings need to be more centered on the Savior, the doctrines of the gospel, the blessings of the Restoration, and the teachings of the scriptures. We need to replace stories, travelogues, and lectures with pure testimonies.

Link: Pure Testimony - general-conference

Elder Jenson:

Sometimes we can learn much about a principle by identifying what it is not. I have found that a testimony is:

• Not an exhortation. Individuals who stand and exhort others in a fast and testimony meeting or even try to call others to repentance, even with the best of intentions, are usurping authority and are often offending others and disrupting the spirit of the meeting.

• Not an experience, although experiences may illustrate belief and conviction.

• Not an expression of gratitude or love, although these are often appropriately included in our testimony sharing.

• Not a public confession.

• Not a sermon or a talk on some doctrinal point, although someone may quote a scripture and then testify of it.

• Not a long explanation of how you know but rather what you know.

• Not merely saying the words “I have a testimony.” It is not inappropriate to say this, but hopefully there is an expression following these words about the doctrines, truths, and principles of which you have a testimony.

Link: Bearing Testimony - Liahona Oct. 2005 - liahona

Edited August 25, 2011 by Dravin

[NeuroTypical]

Now that Dravin has linked to the appropriate sources informing us what a testimony is supposed to be, we're still left trying to figure out what to do about all the "testimonies" we hear that don't quite measure up.

I'd suggest we handle them with patience and a charitable heart, but making a lighthearted song out of them is far more satisfying:

A FEW OF THE TESTIMONIES

(Sung to "My Favorite Things" from Rodgers and Hammerstein's The Sound of Music)

Brother Johansen says God fixed his prostate

Sister Hill wails that her son's gone apostate

Missy Brown details her trip to Belize

These are a few of the testimonies

Brother Stone calls his ex-wife to repentance

Sister Dean can't form a blubber-free sentence

Ammon Smith's grateful the Jazz beat the Kings

These are a few of the Fast Meeting things

There's unchaste movies at Wal-Mart in Layton

Hillary Clinton's a minion of Satan

God loves you just a bit less if you're gay

These are some nuggets I've picked up today

When this low-key

Karaoke

Shows how odd we are

I simply remember I'm not Warren Jeffs

And then I don't feel bizarre

Madison cries that her mom flushed her turtle

Then she announces her daddy's infertile

Tyler loves Jesus and recess and peas

These are a few of the testimonies

Elder Jones gripes that less-actives frustrate 'im

Nine CTR's thank the same things verbatim

Brother McPhie knows Rush Limbaugh is true

And The Da Vinci Code may well be too

Sister Cabell says the United Nations

Must be the beast from the book Revelations

Folks squirm through dubious doctrine and then

Everyone drowsily mumbles "Amen"

When euphor-ya

Starts to bore ya

Here's the thing that's sweet:

Each talk brings us nearer Hymn 152

And then we go home to eat!

Lyrics by M. Spaff Sumsion

Performed by Robert Lund

[MrShorty]

I believe children can have a testimony and should be allowed to public bear their testimony. Where I think it starts to bother me is when the same child gets up each fast Sunday and bears the same testimony.

It was either in a Ward Council meeting or a Stake meeting where someone expressed the concern that, if too many children bear their testimonies, will it deter some adult/teen who really "wants" or "needs" to bear their testimony from getting up.

[applepansy]

I feel this is totally inappropriate and a mockery to God.

Christ loved children. He put children before adults. The following scripture is just one example.

3 Nephi 17:11 & 12

And it came to pass that he commanded that their alittle children should be brought.

So they brought their little children and set them down upon the ground round about him, and Jesus stood in the midst; and the multitude gave way till they had all been brought unto him.

There have been many conference talks about teaching our children what they should know and do.

Mockery? I all can say is WOW!

[KitCarson]

Christ loved children. He put children before adults. The following scripture is just one example.

3 Nephi 17:11 & 12

...

Mockery? I all can say is WOW!

No, Christ did NOT put children "before adults" as you say. Yes, He loved and loves children. The vast majority of His time on earth was spent teaching ADULTS. There are only 3-4 occasions where scriptures record that He specifically focused on the children present. But on those occasions, He did not have the children speak to or testify to the adults. He taught the adults about becoming like children (trusting with childlike faith), not hurting children, and gave the children blessings.

The mockery I referred to is having a mother hold her 3-year-old toddler up to the microphone for her to perform. Most of her memorized statement was unintelligible. Following the baby's words, the mother launched into her own testimony about a chronic ear problem and her husband's priesthood blessing that cured it when specialists couldn't. During the mother's talk, the baby was constantly grabbing the microphone, trying to do her memorized talk again on top of her mother's, and ended up throwing a terrible-3's tantrum because she wasn't allowed to have the mic. Does this encourage the presence of the Holy Spirit? This is the mockery I was talking about.

[applepansy]

No, Christ did NOT put children "before adults" as you say. Yes, He loved and loves children. The vast majority of His time on earth was spent teaching ADULTS. There are only 3-4 occasions where scriptures record that He specifically focused on the children present. But on those occasions, He did not have the children speak to or testify to the adults. He taught the adults about becoming like children (trusting with childlike faith), not hurting children, and gave the children blessings.

The mockery I referred to is having a mother hold her 3-year-old toddler up to the microphone for her to perform. Most of her memorized statement was unintelligible. Following the baby's words, the mother launched into her own testimony about a chronic ear problem and her husband's priesthood blessing that cured it when specialists couldn't. During the mother's talk, the baby was constantly grabbing the microphone, trying to do her memorized talk again on top of her mother's, and ended up throwing a terrible-3's tantrum because she wasn't allowed to have the mic. Does this encourage the presence of the Holy Spirit? This is the mockery I was talking about.

This post just re-emphasizes my "wow." If you choose to be offended about children bearing their testimony that's up to you.

[Blackmarch]

Why do we teach children to go forward in Fast and Testimony Meeting and recite a memorized statement? Primary-aged children get up each Fast and Testimony Meeting and recite the same memorized phrases: "I know this is the True Church; I know that Joseph Smith was a prophet; I know the Book of Mormon is true; I know that Thomas S. Monson is a prophet; and I love my family."

They don't KNOW any of the things of which they testify. They know that they have been taught those phrases by parents and primary teachers, but they have no frame of reference to even understand what they are saying. Rarely do any of these "testimonies" mention Jesus Christ or Heavenly Father. How can they honestly state that they know the BOM is true when they can barely read and haven't read it for themselves?

A few weeks ago a mother proudly held her 3-year-old up to the mic to recite this memorized testimony. Most of what she said was unintelligible.

I feel this is totally inappropriate and a mockery to God. It might make their parents proud of them and the kids might feel good about "performing", but I am totally uninspired by these repititions. I would rather see children repeating a memorized scripture that is meaningful to them or stating simple gospel truths that they understand than have them parrot identical "testimonies" one after another.

One member of my ward complained that too much of testimony meeting is a "thankathon." That people should stick to the "church's approved format" of a testimony. SAY WHAT? The church has outlined for members what a testimony should be?

Testimonies should come from the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and from the heart of the believer. Anything that brings comfort, builds faith, and edifies others should be the content of testimonies. Why limit the content of testimony meetings to repetitive recitals of beliefs?

Some are merely repeating what they arebtold in preparing for when they are older... Some do it because they want to, but dont know better ways of expressing it, and there are others that truly do know.

[pooter1]

I think it is alright if they go up by themselves but when a mom or dad goes with them and whispers a testimony in their ear its wrong and it is a mochery to god. I know of a man that PAID his son a dollar to bear his testimony. I never ever took my kids up and told them their testimony. When they went up it was their decision and it was their testimony.

[supersc]

It may be best to have young children learn to share their testimonies in settings such as family home evening or when giving talks in Primary until they are old enough to do so in a fast and testimony meeting without assistance from a parent, sibling, or other person.

Meetings in the Church 

Nothing about content, just assistance. Out of the mouths of babes...

[Snow]

I have to disagree ... the veil is so much thinner for children than for we adults ... who are we to say they don't know?

Educated, intelligent adults who can use their reason and experience.

You can take a little kid and convince them that babies come from storks and get them to testify that it is true... and that doesn't make their "veil" any thinner.