Clean language?

[Backroads]

This weekend I found myself the mediator between two very different perspectives on the instruction to use clean language.

Side A: We have been commanded by our prophets and other church leaders to use clean language. When we use clean language, it is polite and respectful. It is in keeping with our values. As for sexual dialogue, it's a form of hypocrisy to speak of such things you really have no intention of acting upon. Clean language is a simple way of demonstrating our goodness.

Side B: Swearing is completely a matter of culture. One word means nothing to one person yet is extremely offensive to someone else in another part of the world. Sexual dialogue, kept in reasonable check, happens at some point among groups of guys and is a release of sexual tension. Bad language is not an accurate test of a person's goodness.

Personally, I find both sides have their points.

But really, what do our church leaders refer to when they speak of clean language?

[Vort]

They don't refer to Side B. The cultural context argument has some value, but the "release of sexual tension" argument is pure bull malarky.

[Spartan117]

J. Golden Kimball was very enlightened on this subject. I would recommend going to Deseret Book and picking up the J. Golden Talk on CD for $7.99 and listening to it at least 5 times, then make your own **** descision about the matter.

[Guest]

From Moroni 7:

16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.

17 But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him.

18 And now, my brethren, seeing that ye know the light by which ye may judge, which light is the light of Christ, see that ye do not judge wrongfully; for with that same judgment which ye judge ye shall also be judged.

19 Wherefore, I beseech of you, brethren, that ye should search diligently in the light of Christ that ye may know good from evil; and if ye will lay hold upon every good thing, and condemn it not, ye certainly will be a child of Christ.

I've come away from conversations or parties that included a lot of coarseness in language and action, where people joked around a lot about sex. I've also come away from conversations and parties where everything was kept clean, we talked about uplifting things, and we kept private things to ourselves. Which do you think I walked away from "invited to do good"? Not that I'm 100% innocent, but I recognize and try to honor the importance of keeping my mouth clean. I think I also tend to think less, in a way, of those who freely throw around crude or profane words.

As a side note, it seems to me like there is a direct correlation between willingness to talk freely about one's sex life and level of respect shown to one's spouse. In other words, my friends and acquaintances who make sex just another topic of conversation or something to joke about don't seem to have the same kind of warm, respectful relationships with their spouses as those who won't.

[NeuroTypical]

The purpose of communication, is to communicate something. The way you communicate, says something about you.

That's really all there is to it.

[bytebear]

my view is that words have power, and the more you use them, the less of an impact they have. If you curse like a sailor you have no where to go, and if you really REALLY need to make a point, you will have no words that will have an impact. But if you never swear, then saying "Gosh Darn it" has power beyond measure, and you can only imagine the impact of using harsher language.

[RipplecutBuddha]

The power of words has a spiritual impact in my view. Words mean things.

Matt 12:36-37

36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

As an old commercial on the radio said, 'Whether it's fair or not, how you speak says something about you.' If one is given to lighthearted talk about sexual topics, then that person can be seen as one who does not regard sexuality as a very serious issue.

I use this as an example, but it ranges through vulgarity in general to sexism, racism, and any other potentially offensive attitude. If something is important to us, we tend to not joke about it. Having said that, I understand that there are exceptions, and they may be more pervasive than generally thought. At the same time, I'm talking about other people's perceptions rather than the real attitude of the one engaging in the light conversation.

If all you do is tell sexist jokes at work, what are the odds people think you take your marriage seriously? Finally, I have no doubt Christ was posessed of a sense of humor. I seriously doubt he ever used it at the expense of an innocent person's dignity or self-image.

On the topic of vulgarity, I'm of the common opinion that if that's all you can think to use to express yourself, it is a sad display of the lack of intelligent thought or effort of expression. I should know, I hear it all the time with the guests that check into the hotel.

[Guest gopecon]

I think that option A is the standard that we should strive for in our personal language. Option B is not one I would choose for myself, but I would hope that we would use the understanding expressed there when talking with people (converts, investigators, etc.) who have trod a rougher path in life. When people have grown up surrounded by foul language it can create habits that are difficult to break. There are words that vary in seriousness from culture to culture. I am more reluctant to let the sexual references slide as just a cultural quirk.

[Backroads]

I think that option A is the standard that we should strive for in our personal language. Option B is not one I would choose for myself, but I would hope that we would use the understanding expressed there when talking with people (converts, investigators, etc.) who have trod a rougher path in life. When people have grown up surrounded by foul language it can create habits that are difficult to break. There are words that vary in seriousness from culture to culture. I am more reluctant to let the sexual references slide as just a cultural quirk.

I am happy enough dismissing swearing as culture, but I have a lot of difficulty with sexual references. I have trouble believing that people who joke about sexual perversions are opposed to those things.

[livy111us]

Fornication is also a common part of our culture, but does that make it right? Of course not. You can't say because many people are doing it that it is now ok in the sight of God. That is ludicrous. The scriptures and Prophets are very clear about profanity, and that is we are not to use it.

Col. 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice,dblasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.

Titus 2:8 Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.

James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his atongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man’s religion is vain.

James 3:2-13 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

3Behold, we put bits in the horses’ mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body.

4Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.

5Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!

6And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

7For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:

8But the atongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.

9Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith cursewe men, which are made after the similitude of God.

10Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

11Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?

12Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.

13Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.

1 Peter 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

1 Peter 3:10 For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:

1 Cor 15:33 Be not deceived: evil acommunications corrupt good manners.

Eph. 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

"the habit…of using vulgarity and profanity…is not only offensive to all well-bred persons, but it is a gross sin in the sight of God, and should not exist among the children of the Latter-day Saints" (MFP 3:112-13). Messages of the First Presidency 5 vols., ed. J. Clark. Salt Lake City, 1965-1975.

“ I am sorry that any of us is subjected to profane language, and I plead with you not to use it. I implore you not to say or to do anything of which you cannot be proud.” President Monson April 2011 GC

[JudoMinja]

I was going to bring up James, and livy beat me to it . However, I do want to highlight these specific verses-

"10Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

11Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?

12Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh."

We cannot have foul language be a part of our discourse and expect to be "sweet". We cannot be both. It would be hypocritical to think we can. Our language does indeed say something about us, and what do we want it to say?

This is important when considering ALL our words, not just whether or not we will use profanities. We must be careful about what we choose to speak, because once our words are spoken they cannot be taken back. Much like the WoW and the LoC, this is very much about self-mastery. We must learn to have control of our language.

Mosiah 4:30 " But this much I can tell you, that if ye do not watch yourselves, and your thoughts, and your words, and your deeds, and observe the commandments of God, and continue in the faith of what ye have heard concerning the coming of our Lord, even unto the end of your lives, ye must perish. And now, O man, remember, and perish not."

[Backroads]

Brilliant versus and I thank both of you. Might be handy if the debate ever rises again...

[Traveler]

I am happy enough dismissing swearing as culture, but I have a lot of difficulty with sexual references. I have trouble believing that people who joke about sexual perversions are opposed to those things.

An expert in “brainwashing” once said that anything a person will laugh at they will begin to tolerate and then eventually fully embrace as their own.

The Traveler

[utcowboy]

Coming from the construction industrie my language is a bit rough. When I am around church members I quickly realize that I need better control over myself. It does say alot about who your are and perhaps what your education is.

The teachings of the prophets through out all the ages are true. We need to overcome the natural man and show our love and respect for our Heavenly Father and his Son. And for the sacrific's that they made so that each of us can return to live with Him again.

[RMGuy]

This is a great question, and one that I have struggled with from time to time.

After a lot of thought here is what seems reasonable to me:

1. There are clearly words, gestures, experssions that are unacceptable, improper, crude, etc. in almost every culture in the world.

2. Some of the same language in a different context or culture is not considered crude or rude.

3. I don't believe God hears certain syllables and cringes. For example what constitutes the F bomb here (the way it sounds) is used in a variety of other languages with entirely different meanings.

4. What may indeed cause God to cringe is when we willfully use language that we KNOW to be offensive for the purpose of getting the reaction.

5. We pick our vocabulary from a wide selection of available possibilities. There are times when we select the word automobile for example as opposed to vehicle or car. Many times they are interchangible.....sometimes they are not.

6. When we use an "unclean" word because it is easy, or what comes to mind first, or to insult then I can see it being "bad" When it is the best word to describe the feeling or experience then I believe it is appropriate.

7. In short, are we being vulgar just to be vulgar.

As an example I have heard may things that would be considered swear words here spoken over the pulpit somewhere else, and no one even winces. Yet we use things all the time here that because of my experience in other cultures makes me cringe.

There is not a list of words that are prohibited or allowed and they DO vary from culture to culture. Does that mean that they are culturally based and derived? YES. Does it mean that we don't have an obligation (moral, ethical) to be considerate and respectful to our fellow citizens in the culture? NO.

Just my $.02

-RM

[JudoMinja]

Thank you RMGuy!

Indeed, it is more about the context than the actual words. The way we choose to use the word is what says the most about our language. I can think of several instances where words we are not allowed to use on this site would be considered appropriate, but that is entirely based on the context and because these words are so OVER and MISused, it is better to avoid using them period. There are other words we can use in their stead, even in situations where their use could be considered appropriate. I can also think of several instances where entirely benign words can be used and turned into phrases that are inappropriate.

Instead of thinking of "swear" and "curse" as nouns, I tend to think of them as verbs. There are not certain words that necessarily equal swears or curses, but are we choosing to use our speach in such a manner that the ACT of swearing and cursing becomes a norm? Are we crude, rude, derogatory, or mean with our language? If so, we need to curb our tongues. Clean speech covers much much more than just avoiding certain words. It involves a complete change in the manner of our speech and the purpose behind it.

We should seek always to say things that are uplifting and avoid those things that are irreverent or demeaning. We should not seek to tear others down but to lift their spirits. Whether or not we struggle with the use of "curse words", I think we ALL have areas where we can work on improving the cleanliness of our speech. I know I have sometimes said things I have regretted, even though I am very careful about the words I use.