Friends of Scouting fund drama

[Suzie]

What I really don't get about this story is why in the email they talked about following the prophet? I understand the concept of scouting and the Church however it doesn't mean that just because you may not agree how administration in scouting runs the program, all of the sudden you're not following the prophet. And if those salaries are real, all I can say is wow.

LDS leader dismissed after criticizing Friends of Scouting | The Salt Lake Tribune

[skippy740]

Anyone is free to disagree.

What HE did was contact the news media regarding this issue. THAT was the mistake, not that he disagreed with the BSA.

[beefche]

Why is the stake president talking to the media? I get that the dude would show the email to the press, but they actually quoted the SP discussing with the press about why he was released. Bad judgment on his part, IMO. Someone's release from a calling should not be broadcast to the ward, let alone the press.

[Suzie]

Beefche, I also thought it was weird of the SP to do that. I thought he would decline to comment but if the story is true, he actually gave details on why this brother was released.

[Suzie]

What HE did was contact the news media regarding this issue. THAT was the mistake, not that he disagreed with the BSA.

Why was it a mistake in your opinion?

[RMGuy]

My take:

The SP is well within his right to recommend release to the bishop

The Bishop is well within his rights to release the individual

After all those are their callings.

The YM should be free to tell the truth, so long as he is willing to live with the consequences (the release).

IF they decide to hold a disciplinary council on this individual and he is punished for telling the truth, I would think at that point the Bishop and SP would be engaged in unrighteous dominion UNLESS there is more to the story than we are being told n the article.

-RM

[skippy740]

Why was it a mistake in your opinion?

It's like publicly criticizing your current employer to the news. It just doesn't bode well. It's just in poor taste... and is usually done in 'disgust' while you're on your way out anyway.

So, the problem ISN'T that he disagreed with F.O.S. or the B.S.A. It was that he dragged the church, himself and the B.S.A. into the media.

If you respect an organization, to me, you don't go bad-mouthing it to the media. You work within the system. (Not that it would change anything in the B.S.A.)

[skippy740]

The next part is the interpretation of this event.

Is disagreeing with F.O.S. and the B.S.A.'s organization considered not sustaining your church leaders?

In my opinion... no. B.S.A. is a separate organization with heavy church involvement.

But that doesn't mean that this person's local leaders won't see it that way.

[john doe]

I can agree with many of the (former) YM President's concerns about scouting. However, and this point has not been brought out very well, he brought this on himself. He has a facebook page dedicated to this issue of BSA leaders and how he feels they are over-compensated for what they do. That is completely within his rights.

But when he sent out an email to all the members of his ward telling them that he is in charge of the fundraising efforts but also at the same time telling them that he thinks the funds are going to be misused, he was basically urging them not to donate. He voluntarily put himself in that spot. He poisoned the well when he sent out the email to the ward. That was his big mistake.

He could have handled this differently. He could have asked his bishop for a release, and honestly told him why. He could have asked that someone else be in charge of the FOS efforts, and honestly told him why. If he had done either of those things, his wishes would most likely have been accommodated, and it would have ended there. He could have said nothing and done what he was asked. But he chose to push the issue, and make it his swan song.

It does bother me that the SP chose to speak to the press about private religious proceedings. He should have had no comment on the issue.

[Just_A_Guy]

I love how the Trib is acting like they broke the initial story about overpaid scout execs. The Deseret News ran a similar story a couple of years ago.

I'm not a fan of FOS. On the other hand, the status quo is what it is. I'm told that, at least in Utah, LDS units that don't make their FOS quota have to pay more for BSA services than units that do make their quota--including (but not limited to) scout camp. Assuming that to still be the case, Thomas' stand was not just a harmless political gambit. It caused real and significant damage to the ward's troop and its members.

Incidentally, I've used FOS and my current Scouting calling to solve my problems with door-to-door solicitors. The window adjacent to my front door bears a sign that reads:

Solicitors will be expected to make a contribution of at least $25 to

Friends of Scouting, Troop ____, Utah National Parks Council.

Thank you for having your donation ready before knocking.

No solicitors in two and a half years.

Edited September 23, 2011 by Just_A_Guy

[Backroads]

I feel the same way, in general, about FOS and I think it's pretty cool he's stating it. I don't know if I agree with how he did it--with me, donate or do not donate and call it a day. I also have issues with the reply of "you messed up our FOS goal". Yeah, the Church and Scouting are pretty tight, but this seems to be a case of too much wordy involvement on both sides. Releasing, though, as far as I can tell, is an overreaction.

On another note, they're darn right about Paul Moore's salary. That kind of funding messed up that council's finances a bit... from what I've been told current GSL council president Rick Barnes was hired partially to help fix that mess... I don't know. When he ran our council (the next one to the north) he was still goofing up finances. But the result is some of these guys get paid WAY too much. Our council is suffering right now and we're all secretly thinking they should force one of the executives (who is half-senile and is making bank) into retirement.

And yes, FOS does go so much to salaries? Camp improvements? In our council, anyway, those are largely coming from private donations.

[Guest]

I've wondered for a very long time why the Church can't have its own program for the YM instead of being tied to BSA. We have an excellent YW program.

[john doe]

I love how the Trib is acting like they broke the initial story about overpaid scout execs. The Deseret News ran a similar story a couple of years ago.

I'm not a fan of FOS. On the other hand, the status quo is what it is. I'm told that, at least in Utah, LDS units that don't make their FOS quota have to pay more for BSA services than units that do make their quota--including (but not limited to) scout camp. Assuming that to still be the case, Thomas' stand was not just a harmless political gambit. It caused real and significant damage to the ward's troop and its members.

Incidentally, I've used FOS and my current Scouting calling to solve my problems with door-to-door solicitors. The window adjacent to my front door bears a sign that reads:

No solicitors in two and a half years.

My ward was told that this year there is no quota and discounts for units making the quotas have been eliminated. However, we were read a letter from the Stake stating that the church wholeheartedly endorses the BSA and is committed to supporting them. It also stated that though there is no quota, the 'suggested' donation would be $50 per household and that all homes, both members and nonmembers, should be visited and asked for donations. The bishop went on to say that since the church endorses Scouting and FOS, then it is a priesthood duty to volunteer and make our best efforts to visit all the homes in our ward boundaries asking for donations, even if we had to return 3-4 times to make contact with someone.

[MarginOfError]

I've wondered for a very long time why the Church can't have its own program for the YM instead of being tied to BSA. We have an excellent YW program.

Infrastructure, training, and insurance. Scouting is a great program, and any program would be prohibitively expensive to run in the Church. Plus, you'd have to provide all the training about skills, working with boys, youth protection, etc, that the BSA provides. On top of that, the BSA will insure troops and leaders on all their activities (given that leaders have proper training), which the Church does not.

While we do have a great Young Women program, the question I tend to ask is why don't we have an external program for the Young Women?

My ward was told that this year there is no quota and discounts for units making the quotas have been eliminated. However, we were read a letter from the Stake stating that the church wholeheartedly endorses the BSA and is committed to supporting them. It also stated that though there is no quota, the 'suggested' donation would be $50 per household and that all homes, both members and nonmembers, should be visited and asked for donations. The bishop went on to say that since the church endorses Scouting and FOS, then it is a priesthood duty to volunteer and make our best efforts to visit all the homes in our ward boundaries asking for donations, even if we had to return 3-4 times to make contact with someone.

That's a little bit absurd. I like how my council does it. They've broken down their annual operating costs to how much money per boy it costs to run the council (I'm sure they've added a few dollars to the final number). They ask each person to donate that much if they can and then gratefully accept whatever is given. There isn't much pressure at all, but it still tends to be very successful.

[Blackmarch]

What I really don't get about this story is why in the email they talked about following the prophet? I understand the concept of scouting and the Church however it doesn't mean that just because you may not agree how administration in scouting runs the program, all of the sudden you're not following the prophet. And if those salaries are real, all I can say is wow.

LDS leader dismissed after criticizing Friends of Scouting | The Salt Lake Tribune

as with about all other media... I wish i knew more facts concerning the matter.

I've wondered for a very long time why the Church can't have its own program for the YM instead of being tied to BSA. We have an excellent YW program.

It can. But the BSA already exists and how it is currently is is good enough good enough in general (for now) for not putting sources into its own seperate organization. The church has a one or two programs that get combined with BSA.

Edited September 23, 2011 by Blackmarch

[john doe]

That's a little bit absurd. I like how my council does it. They've broken down their annual operating costs to how much money per boy it costs to run the council (I'm sure they've added a few dollars to the final number). They ask each person to donate that much if they can and then gratefully accept whatever is given. There isn't much pressure at all, but it still tends to be very successful.

I didn't say I endorse the tactic, just that it exists here. I think they aim high knowing they will get much less, which will be sufficient. I only give to FOS if there is extra money in my wallet at the moment they ask, meaning that generally they get nothing. And my conscience is clear in doing that.

I once told my bishop when he came around that if the boys needed funding that I would be happy to donate generously to the troop in exchange for a service project removing rocks from my new yard so I could start a lawn. They never came, so I figured that they were not in need of my money.

Since that time I have never given more than a few bucks at a time to FOS, and I'm fine with that. When they get desperate for cash, they can come around my neighborhood and perform visible service so people can know that they are doing something valuable for the community. I think if they do that their donations will go up. They have even given up on the flag project because of lack of participation from the boys. I finally cajoled a member of the bishopric into selling me one of the unused flags so I could put it up myself. As it sits right now I see very little community service being performed by the Boy Scouts. They are so focused on earning merit badges that they do the very minimum or are so obscure in their service projects that their service to the community is almost meaningless.

[Backroads]

While we do have a great Young Women program, the question I tend to ask is why don't we have an external program for the Young Women?

I kind of wonder why the church doesn't let both the YM and YW join the crews...

[dash77]

Here is my 2 cents worth.

In the various wards I have lived in, there always seems to be a few pro scouting parents that are almost cult like in their attachment to scouting – and they think getting the Eagle Scout is an equal to a YM serving a mission. In the various Duty to God manuals (from 1995 – present) there is a connection to Scouting, but a YM can easily receive the Duty to God medallion without being involved in Scouting.

Some boys love scouting and some boys hate it. Depending on the scout leader and scout committee, some scouting programs can be wonderful spiritual and physical events and others can be dysfunctional that drive the Spirit away.

I like the way our Bishop does it in the ward I live in. There is general encouragement to be involved in scout and earn the Eagle Scout by age 14. However, if boys do not want to participate, they do not have to the YM program still runs so that boys that do not like scouting (such as camping) can still have spiritual experiences in the YM program. Once a YM has earned the Eagle Scout, he can choose not to do another thing in Scouting or can chose to be a youth leader and help the younger bots. In many ways, it’s a person centered approach related to the boys and not a standardized one size fits all. And it seems to work well in our ward.

With this in mind, I do think the salaries of Scout CEO are hidden and there should be greater clarity in the Friends of Scouting (FOS) where the money goes. Usually FOS is a vague explanation and greater clarity should be provided.