Do missionaries only meet with someone who's committed to baptism soon?

[Max3732]

I've been investigating the church on and off for the past couple years. I'd been meeting with missionaries in my area several times a week and they went through all the lessons again and answered a bunch of my questions.

Periodically they've asked me to think about baptism dates, which I have and I've pushed back. I'm someone whose been following commandments like the word of wisdom my whole life and have basically been following most of the teachings, but I'm still not comfortable with some of the more specific doctrine like exultation.

Despite this the missionaries and people in the ward all think I'm ready to get baptized as its only a first step. In my last meeting with the missionaries I told them my mom is sick and I don't want to get baptized till she gets better as I don't want to put more stress on her and make her worse.

I don't know if they didn't understand or they've been taught to push baptism, but they didn't seem to care and just reiterating how important baptism is and that I should do it anyway. I told them they've done a great job explaining and helping me learn and that even though I'm not going to get baptized for a little while I gain a lot from discussing my concerns and meeting with them.

After this I could see a huge change in them and they said their purpose is to bring people to Christ to get baptized and that if I'm not going to do it there's nothing else for them to teach me. I asked them to meet again and they said it depends on whether I'll get baptized.

Basically now I feel like the missionaries have gone from friends helping me understand the LDS gospel to used car salesman trying to ring up numbers and when they realized I wasn't going to buy the car from them they don't want to spend anymore time on me.

If I want to learn more should I forget about these missionaries completely and try talking the ones on mormon.org or will I have the same problem with them? One of the negative things I've heard about the church is that they care more for other members than their own families and this experience of wanting baptism for me now rather than waiting a few months even if it makes my mom seriously ill kind of confirms that. So is that unusual?

[Guest]

If you see it from their perspective, they are taking time out of several of their days per week, have taught you the lessons more than once, and have answered many other questions. I can see how, if you've expressed disinterest in going further, they would feel like they've given you what they have to offer. What more is it that you are wanting from them? Is it "bible bashing" sessions that you're having several times a week? I don't know what kind of questions you're wanting them to answer. While they are your friends, they don't have time to just hang out several times a week. They are giving 2 years of their lives to teach as many and do as much missionary work as they can.

Family is the central unit in the Church. Family always comes first. I don't know why being baptizes would make your mom seriously ill? Do you still live with her, and is she that firmly against the LDS church? Only you know your situation, so I won't comment more on that. But if, for example, you had a wife who said she'd leave you if you were baptized, you certainly wouldn't be pushed to be baptized at the expense of your marriage.

I think my post may come off as a little abrasive. I don't mean it to. I'm just trying to help you see it from another side.

[Vort]

The primary duty of a missionary is to bring people to Christ through baptism. A missionary is not called to be a friend to everyone, at least not in the normal sense of the word. A friend is there for you to help you, even when you are not walking the path he thinks you should walk. A missionary, in contrast, should be there to help those in need, but focuses his time on those who benefit from his efforts. A missionary is a spiritual guide, and there is no use in "guiding" people who don't want to go where you're guiding them.

That said, your description does sound like the missionaries may be a bit overzealous in "pushing" you toward baptism. Baptism is your decision, not theirs. So if you've said, "I don't want to get baptized right away because I'm dealing with a few things in life," and their response is, "Then we won't come teach you any more," that sounds like something is fishy. Not sure what, though.

Internet-based diagnoses of personal difficulties are notoriously inexact. I want to encourage you in your efforts, but I don't want to condemn missionaries I've never even met based on a short, anonymous note on an internet forum, either. I'd say you should just keep pushing on, be honest with the missionaries, let them make whatever decision they feel they should. Pray, read the scriptures, and maybe get back in touch with mormon.org missionaries, if that goes better for you. Missionaries typically serve in an area only for a few months at a time, so soon enough there will be other missionaries in your area.

[Max3732]

I'm not bashing anyone with my questions. The kinds of questions I'm asking are things I haven't understood in church, questions about what I've read in the book of Mormon, questions about how getting baptized affects day to day life, questions about things said by the prophets in the last 50 years or so and more detailed questions about the basic lessons. Also, just having them share gospel stories or talks helps a lot. The 3 hours of church can be overwhelming and its difficult not having anyone I can talk to about what's going on there. It's certainly not just "hanging out" One of my friends also suggested I listen as they teach others and I've brought up that idea but they've never invited me to come along.

I try to research my questions online, but there's often too much info on lds.org or not enough. When I do general searches I also get too much extra info. They also seemed to say that I should just do it then even if she's firmly against it at that point it would be too late.

Without going into too much detail me getting baptized would be very difficult for her and cause a lot of problems right now. Hopefully in a few months she'll be better and it won't be an issue. By then I'm not sure if I can continue learning everything on my own or if I'll want to do this without some kind of help.

In short, I feel like I need guidance and just maintenance with what I've learned already, but they're saying "get baptized or we will not help you anymore"

[Guest]

Have you asked if the ward missionaries can help you out? That's more in line with what my husband does in his calling as a ward missionary.

[bytebear]

It sounds to me like you need to integrate with the ward more. you really need to attend church weekly. even if you aren't ready for baptism, you should live your life as if you are a member. Test the doctrines by living them. I would recommend visiting with the bishop and even look at getting a ward missionary or home teachers to transition you from missionaries to ward members. You don't need the missionaries any more. The reason missionaries only stay in a ward for a few months at a time is so that people investigating the church don't rely on friendships or the missionary/investigator relationship to sustain them. The ward is your family, not the missionaries. So, my advice is get involved in your ward, and move on from the missionaries. you don't need them to teach you. You need your ward.

[Dravin]

When I was a missionary my general thought process was:

1) Are they progressing towards a testimony and baptism?

2) Will continuing to meet with them either keep them progressing or help them progress towards a testimony and baptism?

Sounds like your missionaries may be a little overzealous on what constitutes progression but sometimes you encounter people who like to discuss/visit with you but aren't willing to go anywhere at any pace and sometimes it can be hard to distinguish between someone who is progressing slowly and someone who isn't progressing and who you can't seem to help do so.

As far as not getting baptized for family members, ultimately one has to, if they have a testimony that they need to be baptized, make the decision of if they will follow Christ's commandment to be baptized or defer him in favor of the wishes of family. It's an application of Matthew 10:37. Thing is it doesn't sound to me, and my limited understanding of the situation, that you're deferring being baptized because your Mom doesn't want you to, but rather you're wanting to push it back a bit until she's in a slightly better place to accept it (health wise). Sometimes it can be tricky to gauge if someone is serious about waiting one month or if they're just looking for a reason not to be baptized and a month from now once the bronchitis is better if something else will pop up.

Now if I had an investigator back when I was a missionary who honestly was just waiting until Mom got better I'd probably step the visits back a bit (still keep in touch and visit periodically though). My purpose is to help you build a testimony and prepare for baptism, if you there but just waiting for someone to recover from an illness or what have you then you're for the most part there, in a sense my purpose for visiting and teaching you is 'done' and it's a case of transitioning you to learning to lean upon your ward.

Most people a missionary teaches stop progressing for various reasons (missionaries teach a lot more people then get baptized) and so as a missionary you tend to brace and prepare for that moment, sometimes a premature call is made.

Edited December 5, 2011 by Dravin

[NeuroTypical]

Hi Max,

Kudos to you for not doing something you aren't comfortable with. When I was serioiusly investigating the church, I basically kept it a secret from everybody so I could avoid all the pushing and urging and handwringing and commentary and unsolicited advice and everything else. It's not just a mormon thing, mind you. Whenever you've got someone who thinks they have something special and important, they automatically want to share it with people they know and like.

My advice - tell them as kindly as possible that you will be proceeding at your own pace, and you are a little uncomfortable with how much they are pushing. If the pushing continues, feel free to get less kind.

The instant that God lets you know you should be Mormon, go tell the whole world you're ready. Until then, take your time. This is worth thinking through all the way.

[Mamas_Girl]

So, my advice is get involved in your ward, and move on from the missionaries. you don't need them to teach you. You need your ward.

If you're serious about the church, I agree. You need to continue attending church services, and getting home teachers who can help answer questions and fellowship you into the church. Missionaries come and go, but the branch/ward members are typically there for the long haul. Keep attending the investigator classes, if you wish. People like the bishop, ward mission leader, relief society president, etc are just as qualified, if not more so, to answer some of your more advanced or complicated questions, and it will give you a chance to bond with those who will be there with you years down the road. Your ward can also be responsible for your baptism, you do not need the missionaries for that either. :)

[Max3732]

Thanks for your help everyone. If this is too much info I'm posting let me know

I've been going to church nearly every Sunday and have met a lot of people at church besides the missionaries. Where I go to church is a branch, not a ward so there isn't a ward mission leader here. The members are extremely nice and lot are returned missionaries, but they're all busy with school/work and I don't feel right asking to meet with them regularly although I'm sure they would do it.

I haven't had much luck with the bishop either. I came in with several specific questions that I wanted to have addressed, but instead he asked me some general questions then basically just lectured me the whole time in a way that wasn't very helpful.

Before this whole thing with the missionaries I felt like baptism wouldn't be that big a deal since I already live and act like a member on most issues (and have my whole life). After discussing it with my dad some more we're both kind of taken back and shocked by how uncaring and pushy the missionaries came across. Today my dad asked me if I'd really want to join a church that values baptism over the health of a close family member and where teaching is dependent on joining first.

One of his concerns (and mine too) is that the church might use being nice and all these activities to get people to do things and say that the church family is more important than your own family. From talking to people in the branch a lot of them don't have good relationships with their family or had all kinds of problems. I don't know if this is just a reflection of society in general or if these are the kind of people who join.

My reason for posting this is not to vent, but figure out if most missionaries follow what Loudmouth_Mormon posted about the 2 questions he'd ask or if the missionaries are taught that whatever happens in the investigators life they need to use it to get him baptized.

[sister_in_faith]

Max, I'm sorry that for whatever reason, you have come away with a bad impression of how these missionaries are acting. I want you to know that my personal experience is not that the church values baptism over family, much the opposite. I hope that you won't let this leave a bad taste in your mouth, because the church is a wonderful place to be.

The only other thing I keep thinking of, is that I know that when someone is considering baptism the advesary goes into overtime trying to do EVERYTHING he can to keep that person from making that right choice. Just be careful that he isn't doing things in your life that make baptism harder for you, when it really is the right thing to do...

good luck!

[Mamas_Girl]

I've been going to church nearly every Sunday and have met a lot of people at church besides the missionaries. Where I go to church is a branch, not a ward so there isn't a ward mission leader here. The members are extremely nice and lot are returned missionaries, but they're all busy with school/work and I don't feel right asking to meet with them regularly although I'm sure they would do it.

Have you tried talking to the Elders' Quorum President? He'd be sort of the equivelent of a ward mission leader. Also, don't sell those Returned Missionaries (RM) short. Have you gotten to know them? Usually they'd be more than happy to have the blessings of visiting with someone who's interested in the church. Many of us here are RMs and wouldn't mind talking gospel doctrine, if you have questions that you want answered.

From talking to people in the branch a lot of them don't have good relationships with their family or had all kinds of problems. I don't know if this is just a reflection of society in general or if these are the kind of people who join.

People join the church from all walks of life. World-wide have members who run multi-million dollar companies, there are doctors, lawyers, students and those who are on welfare, and everything in between. I think a lot depends upon the socio-economic area in which a person lives. When I lived in a previous branch that was in heavy coal and timber country, we had more miners, when I lived in a student ward we had more analytical and scientific minded individuals, etc. When one lives in an area where the economy has been really hit hard it's difficult to always stay upbeat and positive. Mormons should be the happiest people on earth, or so I've been told. But we're also human and as such occasionally suffer like other people.

My reason for posting this is not to vent, but figure out if most missionaries follow what Loudmouth_Mormon posted about the 2 questions he'd ask or if the missionaries are taught that whatever happens in the investigators life they need to use it to get him baptized.

You have to understand the purpose of missionary work -- In Matthew 28:19 the Savior said: "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost..." So yes, obviously baptism is the main goal of missionary work. As s_i_f said, the adversary will work harder on one trying to find the truth than he will on those who plain aren't interested. Oftentimes, like in my own situation, I had to give up my siblings to join the church because I knew the church was true, and they refused to accept my becoming LDS. It was the best move I ever made, and my siblings are slowly re-friending me as time passes, but there was no guarantee that would happen.

There comes a fine line sometimes regarding at what point the missionaries need to move on, and apparently you've been taught the lessons at least once, maybe twice (IIRC), and you've been attending church... You are really now under the stewardship of the branch president and the various branch leaders. Try going back to the branch president and telling him what you said here. I don't know what you said to him, but ask him why he lectured you in a non-productive way. Explain to him how that made you feel. Seriously I don't want this to sound mean or anything, I'm just trying to help you figure things out by trying to explain things from the other point of view.

I don't know if any of this helped, please don't take offense as none is intended. I know it's hard to read the emotions when not talking face to face.

Edited December 5, 2011 by Mamas_Girl

[skippy740]

I think some investigators overcomplicate their study of the gospel.

Articles of Faith 1:4

4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

3 Nephi 11:37-40

37 And again I say unto you, ye must repent, and become as a little child, and be baptized in my name, or ye can in nowise receive these things.

38 And again I say unto you, ye must repent, and be baptized in my name, and become as a little child, or ye can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God.

39 Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine, and whoso buildeth upon this buildeth upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them.

40 And whoso shall declare more or less than this, and establish it for my doctrine, the same cometh of evil, and is not built upon my rock; but he buildeth upon a sandy foundation, and the gates of hell stand open to receive such when the floods come and the winds beat upon them.

There is only 1 reason for teaching the gospel lessons: to feel the spirit, to then invite unto baptism. No spirit = no action = no baptism.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is a feeling. The missionaries didn't even study all this stuff until they were called as missionaries.

Unless an investigator is serious in their study and progression, eventually a "frank" discussion is held. This discussion is when the missionaries ask 'how do you feel about the things we've shared?' Then based on the response it tells the missionaries ALL they need to know on how to proceed.

A response like "I'm reading the Book of Mormon on a regular basis and I love what I'm reading. I've been reading about ____ and how they did _____." This is the response of someone who is moving forward in their understanding and feeling the spirit.

A response like "This is pretty cool. I like you guys and we have fun." Typically, on this response, we ask another clarifying question like "What do you think of the Book of Mormon?" And a lukewarm response then invokes a parting discussion that when they're ready, to call them.

The spirit that the missionaries (should be) carrying with them and teaching by is brought with them. The spirit is to help inspire and gain commitments to live by the commandments. If no commitments are being made, then the missionaries need to find and teach others who will make those commitments.

When I was serving as a missionary in a small branch, we nearly dropped everyone who we were teaching by the time I had left. Why? Because they weren't progressing by making and keeping the commitments being asked of them.

But that is the job of a missionary. They're not called to be "pals", but to be teachers and baptizers into the church.

But YOU have an additional resource... lds.net! We can help you with your many questions. We have many members of the church here in various parts of the world. Your local members can help... but as you said, they have other commitments as well.

So ask away! That's what we're here for! As we help to clarify some things for you, I would then recommend contacting your missionaries about the questions you've asked us here and the progress you've made in helping to resolve your concerns.

[rayhale]

Here are some things to know about the missionaries:

Like most people here have said, missionaries stay in one area for a short time, I only stayed in an area for roughly two to three months.

Missionaries are only formally taught for three weeks, at the Missionary Training Center. That being said, there is little time to teach tact.

Yes, baptism is important, but sometimes people, even missionaries, forget that it should be conversion, not baptism, that should be the goal.

This may be surprising, but, missionaries are not required to read the scriptures, learn about Church history, learn how to be a missionary, or anything like that, before going on a mission.

[bytebear]

True, the missionary has very basic lessons. And it is to introduce the Book of Mormon as a second witness to Jesus Christ, introduce the church that was restored, tell the investigator the requirements for baptism and what is expected of members of the church. Beyond that, they are not there to teach the details of the gospel. That's what Sunday School is for. Really their only job is to show men (and women) how to gain a testimony of Jesus Christ and the church He established and how to join that church.

[Jezebel2011]

Thanks for your help everyone. If this is too much info I'm posting let me know

I've been going to church nearly every Sunday and have met a lot of people at church besides the missionaries. Where I go to church is a branch, not a ward so there isn't a ward mission leader here. The members are extremely nice and lot are returned missionaries, but they're all busy with school/work and I don't feel right asking to meet with them regularly although I'm sure they would do it.

I haven't had much luck with the bishop either. I came in with several specific questions that I wanted to have addressed, but instead he asked me some general questions then basically just lectured me the whole time in a way that wasn't very helpful.

Before this whole thing with the missionaries I felt like baptism wouldn't be that big a deal since I already live and act like a member on most issues (and have my whole life). After discussing it with my dad some more we're both kind of taken back and shocked by how uncaring and pushy the missionaries came across. Today my dad asked me if I'd really want to join a church that values baptism over the health of a close family member and where teaching is dependent on joining first.

One of his concerns (and mine too) is that the church might use being nice and all these activities to get people to do things and say that the church family is more important than your own family. From talking to people in the branch a lot of them don't have good relationships with their family or had all kinds of problems. I don't know if this is just a reflection of society in general or if these are the kind of people who join.

My reason for posting this is not to vent, but figure out if most missionaries follow what Loudmouth_Mormon posted about the 2 questions he'd ask or if the missionaries are taught that whatever happens in the investigators life they need to use it to get him baptized.

Hello,

You need to remember one very important point -

The Church is a perfect religion with imperfect Members.

If we were 'perfect' we would not need to be here.

There are problems with folks in every Ward and Branch simply because we all have an earthly life to live, along with all its associated problems and difficulties.

I agree with others that the best place for you to do your learning now is at the Church and not via the missionaries. Of course they want you to be baptised!! All Church Members will want for you to be baptised - it is the most wonderful, cleansing, spiritual and amazing experience ever. I want you to be baptised.

I take it that you are doing the full three sessions at Church? All are really important but you must attend the Sunday School which for you will be with the missionaries as they go through the Gospel Principles book. Once I was baptised I was kept in that Class, along with others for nearly 9 months before the Bishop moved us to the adult Sunday School.

To my way of thinking once you have a Testimony that you know the Book of Mormon is true, that Joseph Smith was a Prophet, that Pres Monson is the living Prophet then baptism is the only way forward.

Other than that there is no point in waiting. Remember that you are not expected to know everything about the Gospel of Jesus Christ or the History of the Church, the Teachings of everything at that point in time, that comes throughout your life of learning.

Go for it - it is the best thing I ever did. My only regret is that I didn't do it 30 years ago.

[Guest gopecon]

If you're serious about the church, I agree. You need to continue attending church services, and getting home teachers who can help answer questions and fellowship you into the church. Missionaries come and go, but the branch/ward members are typically there for the long haul. Keep attending the investigator classes, if you wish. People like the bishop, ward mission leader, relief society president, etc are just as qualified, if not more so, to answer some of your more advanced or complicated questions, and it will give you a chance to bond with those who will be there with you years down the road. Your ward can also be responsible for your baptism, you do not need the missionaries for that either. :)

Mamas Girl - The missionaries DO NEED to be a part of convert baptisms. The keys for that work are the mission president's, not the bishop's.

[Guest gopecon]

Max, one option for you to consider is calling the mission president's office. You could explain to them what you've told us - that you want to get baptized but need a little more time. If the missionaries were just putting you off, the MP could address that with them. If they feel that the missionaries have done what they can do for now, then they will advise you as many here have - keep going to church, get involved and find someone who can answer your more detailed questions (if there are some that the missionaries are not trained on).

[RMGuy]

Basically now I feel like the missionaries have gone from friends helping me understand the LDS gospel to used car salesman trying to ring up numbers and when they realized I wasn't going to buy the car from them they don't want to spend anymore time on me.

If I want to learn more should I forget about these missionaries completely and try talking the ones on mormon.org or will I have the same problem with them? One of the negative things I've heard about the church is that they care more for other members than their own families and this experience of wanting baptism for me now rather than waiting a few months even if it makes my mom seriously ill kind of confirms that. So is that unusual?

I am going to share a couple of thoughts that might make me unpopular with some of my fellow forum members. Having once been one of those missionaries, I think you need to remember that they are 19 or 20 year old young men. They have been set apart as representatives of the Lord, but that did not remove whatever immaturiy they may have, nor did it magically endow them with wisdom and experience beyond their years. When you couple this with a need to return and report on their efforts and a link (whether real or imagined) between baptism and success, one can sometimes see how missionaries can be percieved as pressuring....even when it is not a good time. In personal experience I have seen missionaries drop investigators who they did not believe to be "progressing."

If we assume good intentions on the part of the missionaries (and I would), it can also mean that they believe that this step would be a good and powerful first step for the rest of your life. As such, it pains them to see you not recieving the blessing that are in store for you.

I think it is important to know that the Gospel is not one sized fits all. Some individuals join the Church after a week and are stalwart members the remainder of their lives. Others join hastily, never really had a good understanding of the church or a testimony of the gospel and fall away as quickly as they joined. We recently had a new convert in our ward that investigated for decades.

In your situation, perhaps call the missionaries up. Schedule a meeting, and share with them exactly what you have shared here with us? Again, each situation is different. Your Heavenly Father knows that. Best of luck, and hope your mother is doing better soon.

-RM

[Mamas_Girl]

Mamas Girl - The missionaries DO NEED to be a part of convert baptisms. The keys for that work are the mission president's, not the bishop's.

Actually, you are correct. Senior moment there, that's why the missionaries keep asking members if we know people who might be interested. I stand corrected, not the first time, or the last I'm sure.

[rayhale]

One thing I forgot to mention, missionaries are strongly encouraged to pay as much as the $375 a month expense that the Church set as a standard rate for all missions. That being said, some missionaries would not only see a waste of time to talk to someone that have been talking to the missionaries for years, or even decades, but also a waste of money.

[Maureen]

One thing I forgot to mention, missionaries are strongly encouraged to pay as much as the $375 a month expense that the Church set as a standard rate for all missions. That being said, some missionaries would not only see a waste of time to talk to someone that have been talking to the missionaries for years, or even decades, but also a waste of money.

Just so the OP doesn't get the idea that missionaries are robots and only have a narrow vision of "get them baptized and move on", I must add my 2 cents.

For missionaries their world is the investigators they meet, the ward or branch members and fellow missionaries. Their lives take on a more spiritual focus than regular members but they do not forsake their social involvement with people. Because their social involvement has become very limited I would think that that interaction (for their humanity sake)would become even more important. My nephew just finished his mission (and I have another one 1/3 of the way into his mission) and from emails received by both, their lives were and are intertwined with the lives of the many people they meet. Some missionaries stay with members in their homes, and form bonds and friendships. Some investigators become converts and stay in touch with their missionaries. And some fellow missionaries that they work with become fast friends, during and after the mission. When my nephew finished his mission, his Mom and sister came to pick him up and he took his family around visiting members and converts that he became close to.

So even though a missionary's life if centrally focused on teaching and baptizing, I suspect that the most do not loose their humanity while trying to do their job. I would hope that for the majority, their humanity would become more open and caring.

M.

[Guest gopecon]

As someone who has served in the missionary program as a full time missionary and in 4 wards and branches since then, I can assure you that missionaries "drop" investigators all the time. While they could possibly have explained it better, and maybe a full drop should not have happened (if that is what happened at all), this is not an unusual thing to have happen. I don't mean this to be critical either, it is often for the best that it does happen.

They have a limited amount of time to find people who are honestly seeking for the truth. I was willing to meet with just about anyone once, but if it became clear that I was just answering questions for curiosity sake I would have evaluated whether or not this was an effective use of my time. I'm not sure of the exact situation of the OP, but if the missionaries had been meeting with him for many months with slow progress and they were told that he wanted to wait for an undetermined lenght of time before baptism, then cutting back on their contacts makes sense (not totally dropping, but reducing the amount of time). I assume that waiting for Mom to get better is not just getting over the flu, but something much longer term. I can see how this would feel like they are just getting put off and are seeing progress stalling out. Maybe we have a failure to communicate clearly (on both sides). Did the Elders explain how much they will come over, if at all? Did Max give them a hoped for time frame on his mother's recovery? If it's short term (few weeks) I don't see the harm in waiting. If it looks to be significantly longer then the Elders didn't seem to have much of a choice.

[Max3732]

Thanks again for the tremendous input.

The length of time is probably going to be in the 2 to 4 week range, but it could be longer. Before this conversation they told me they could see a lot of progress in me and I also just a week before told them that I was no longer afraid of baptism and its something I could see myself doing, which has never happened before.

As a result of the conversation and just how "robot like" their reaction was when I told them my mom had taken a turn for the worse and how they didn't seem to care what she or my family was going through I've seriously reconsidered the idea of baptism. When I was meeting with them I was reading everyday and also reading talks online. Now I can barely stand to look at the stuff, although I did attend church. Cutting down the frequency of meeting would have made a lot of sense, but the ultimatum (get baptized or we won't talk to you) really stung.

As I mentioned before the members couldn't be nicer, although I still find it odd that they said we should keep track of who doesn't come and then contact them to make sure they come next week. They've also talked about going to the rescue of people who haven't gone to church in a while.

I'm not someone who wants to explain why I went or didn't go to church and don't think its anyone's business how often I go. When they pass around the attendance sheet I never sign it because I don't like the idea of them keeping a record. If someone says they didn't go because they were busy would the members push them on it or leave them with some privacy?

I haven't gone to all 3 meetings every week. I'm usually late for sacrament meeting and I've also left elder's quorum early numerous times.

I don't want to repeat the conversation with the branch president cause I don't know if he's reading this and I don't want to be identified. The main thing I can think of that may have caused him to start lecturing was that I didn't readily agree with everything he was saying.

As far as asking doctrine questions here, I may give that a try although its a little different than having a person in front of you explaining it.

[Mamas_Girl]

The length of time is probably going to be in the 2 to 4 week range, but it could be longer. Before this conversation they told me they could see a lot of progress in me and I also just a week before told them that I was no longer afraid of baptism and its something I could see myself doing, which has never happened before.

Again, this is going to come off sounding rude, but I'm just going to throw this out there.

I think one thing that you have to keep in mind is that you've said you've been investigating the church on and off for the past couple of years, you've been resisting baptism up till now... and now you want to but you can't cause mom's ill, and it'll be too difficult on her. May I ask why you feel being baptized would be difficult on your mom and cause a bunch of problems but it won't when she's better? It's been my experience that if it's a problem when they're ill, it's no better when they're well, and I'm wondering if your missionaries have run across the same findings.

You really should have a mentor within the branch that you can turn to with questions and concerns. What worries me to some extent is that you say when the missionaries quit coming you lost the initiative to search and study on your own. How do you expect this to change when you're baptized and the missionaries have to move on?

As far as attendence sheets: most churches that I've attended (non-LDS) have attendence sheets. I used to attend the Methodist church (born and raised) and every week during the service there was a clipboard with a paper on it at the end of the row that was passed down. We put our name on it and whether or not we were local, a visitor, a member, or a member of another denomination (and if so, which one). We did this in Sunday School as well. So I never saw this as anything odd or unusual.

Signing the attendence sheet is important as the difference between a branch and a ward is numbers. The church keeps track of how many people attend each week, and if they hit a certain number for so many weeks then the branch can become a ward. When it becomes a ward it gets some benefits like a new building or new wings added onto the existing building. Right now I attend a ward, but we're trying to reach a certain number so we can have a full gymnasium, instead of just a half of one, and I think there are other rooms and such that are added as well.

I've never found that people are all that concerned with a person's non-attendence. Sometimes we'll ask if there's anyone who's sick or afflicted, not so much to barge in on them, but to keep them in our prayers. I came back about 6 months ago after being inactive for 25 years. No one asked me why I was gone, or what I was doing. I was contacted only once by my bishop to be told that the branch had just been made a ward and they were holding a special service if I was interested in coming. I didn't. No one asked why. It may be different in other places, but I've lived all across the US and served my mission in 8 different areas, and I don't find they're too concerned.

I haven't gone to all 3 meetings every week. I'm usually late for sacrament meeting and I've also left elder's quorum early numerous times.

I don't mean to be blunt here, but are you sure you're ready for baptism? I mean you really do need to attend regularly in order to receive the blessings of church membership. Yeah, you'll get asked about attendence when you go to get your temple recommend. The branch president and stake president will both ask you if you've been attending church regularly, and if not, why?

As far as asking doctrine questions here, I may give that a try although its a little different than having a person in front of you explaining it.

Great! Look forward to helping you.

Edited December 6, 2011 by Mamas_Girl