a question of offense

[jayanna]

So I don't know what to do when someone, someones, especially church leaders say offensive things about others, especially new members/investigators.

I realize it is foolish to take offense when it is intended, but I don't know what to do or say. Here are a couple of situations: a sis who has just left the room upset after telling me and a few others that she has recently had yet another miscarriage, and I say, "I feel so bad, I just don't know what to say to her, I'd better follow her home to make sure she gets there okay..." and the RS pres. says, "The reason God won't give her another baby is because she doesn't control the ones she already has, everyone has seen the way they behave." In front of everyone in the room....how could I possibly respond to that? If I just leave without saying anything could this be construed as agreement? Should I disagree with my RS pres in front of everyone? At the time I just worked my mouth, open and shut open and shut, and said something like," Uhhh she's leaving I'd better go now" and left.

Another instance has happened time and time again in our ward. We have a new member/usually an investigator who starts coming to church. I have noticed that if the person does not make much money, they are usually not welcomed, and are always talked about the minute they leave the room. IF they have children and are poor someone invariably says that they are the next welfare family that the church doesn't need, and their kids are complained about quite a bit. Recently (in the past two weeks) two new moms in the ward overheard on separate occasions some of the sisters speaking this way about them and their kids( one of them actually did not know that the church had a welfare system). Both moms had decided not to come back to church, both moms (after a lot of visiting and all the encouragement I could think of) have now decided to come back, but are extremely jaded and are reluctant to leave their children in primary. I have told them to bring their littlest ones to Gospel Principles class with them rather than skip classes altogether.

I keep hoping that someone will notice that we can't keep investigators, but so far after about 10 years of it now I am feeling really discouraged. I don't have a calling, which gives me time to do things for these dear new little sisters, like give them rides to/from church activities. I sit with them in classes to answer any questions they might have. I tell them who they need to talk to about things like preparing for baptism/temple endowments... what home teachers are for, etc. Sometimes I help with weddings if they aren't married, and things like that, but but I lose them when they hear words that they should not have to hear at church.

I have discussed this with my VT and she suggested that I discontinue hanging out with the 'stinky kids in class' meaning those that do not at first blush to be what sisters call "an asset to the ward"...but you know what, I like those stinky kids....they are smelling pretty rosey to me in comparison at this point. How do I convey to others how precious these new sisters are, as well as their little ones? People are starting to roll thier eyes at me when I say something nice about someone new at church, and I find myself henpecked if I am late because I brought two families to church with me....sure I apologize to my hubby since he is conducting, but why are they worried about whether I get there on time when I have others that need me? I mean sure sometimes it takes me 2 or three trips to get everyone to church in the morning, but isn't it more important that they all get there than whether or not I am sitting down in my seat during the opening hymn? One said this month, "Late again? What's your excuse this time?" As we were both coming in the door at the same time I did not tell her that one little family was not ready on time, I don't think it was any of her business. As the last RS lesson was on setting goals it was a funny point to those around me to bring up being on time as a necessary goal, as it is inconsiderate to others to be late. The two investigators beside me both gasped and looked at me. One apologized like six times for making me late and I just told her that I didn't care about it one bit, and not to worry.

Should I just keep ignoring it, what do I say to these sisters that get offended on both sides?

I just really need a pick me up.

[NeuroTypical]

Here's how my wife navigates through life:

Curing other people of their faults isn't her job.

Avoiding giving offense to people who need to be slapped isn't her job either.

So she doesn't go looking for ways to fix such people, but when someone chooses to display unrighteous unchristlike uncharitable annoying dumbness in front of her, she is pretty plainspoken about how that crap don't fly around her.

"The reason God won't give her another baby is because she doesn't control the ones she already has, everyone has seen the way they behave.

"I wish God had stopped my mother at three - we're heading to a parole hearing for #4 next month."

.

IF they have children and are poor someone invariably says that they are the next welfare family that the church doesn't need

"Sometimes I wonder how you all suffered me, back when my husband was out of work for six months."

.

I have told them to bring their littlest ones to Gospel Principles class with them rather than skip classes altogether.

...

I don't have a calling, which gives me time to do things for these dear new little sisters, like give them rides to/from church activities. I sit with them in classes to answer any questions they might have. I tell them who they need to talk to about things like preparing for baptism/temple endowments... what home teachers are for, etc. Sometimes I help with weddings if they aren't married, and things like that, but but I lose them when they hear words that they should not have to hear at church.

Such things tend to make far, far more of a positive difference on earth, than giving one of the upturned nose brigate the verbal flogging they so richly deserve. From what I'm reading, you're choosing the Christlike way. Thank you.

.

I have discussed this with my VT and she suggested that I discontinue hanging out with the 'stinky kids in class'

"Hi Bishop - I wanted you to know what I am being taught by my visiting teacher, and how the RS President is reinforcing it. Just FYI, I've asked to be taken off the VT list until the program has something a little less offensive to teach me."

.

Late again? What's your excuse this time?

...

The two investigators beside me both gasped and looked at me. One apologized like six times for making me late and I just told her that I didn't care about it one bit, and not to worry.

This one is beyond me. My wife would have something witty and introspective to say - but I'd probably just say something that guaranteed this person would never speak to me again.

Keep fighting the good fight. In some ways, it's good for an investigator to know that our church has it's share of jerks in it too.

[Guest]

Stop caring what other people think. There will always be Pharisees and Sadducees. You don't need their approval, nor do the sheep we are called to feed. Just keep your head down, do the good work you're doing, and ignore them.

[jayanna]

Thanks, guys...I guess I'm just really feeling it this week. Most of the time I kind shrug it off and move on, but when I went to visit one sis after she skipped church this Sunday and she opened the door I could tell she had been crying all morning from what certain sisters had been saying at the New Years party Sat. night. I just couldn't take those brown, red rimmed eyes. I'm so glad she didn't slam the door in my face. I had her over for FHE last night, and I think she is feeling a little bit better. I hope she gives us another chance. She has moved along so far and grown so much, she is just a few months away from getting her endowments!

We are going on a trip next month to do baptisms at the temple. Boy, I really think she needs to go and feel some of the blessings of sticking with it, ya know? Her kids are 1,2 and 3 and she has very little time to sit and ponder. My two teenagers are going to watch her kids while we are in there, I am really excited and up to this weekend she was too...oh please oh please don't give up little sis!

[jayanna]

Is this just a local issue, or does this happen a lot of places? One day my daughter heard some of it and she told me that when she grows up and has kids she won't live here. She did say that she would let me move in next door though :)

[Guest]

I don't mean to be flip. I learned this the hard way.

When we moved into our current ward 6 years ago, I was active and doing everything I should, including visiting teaching. I wanted to make friends. There was a play group announced in RS, and since I had 2 young kids, I decided that it would be a good way to get to know people. I went a few times, talked to people, everything seemed fine. I have pleasant, well-behaved children (for real- not just in my mommy brain. I expect a lot of them.). One of the gals I taught headed up the group. She stopped announcing it, and for a few weeks I'd ask her when and when we were meeting. She said they weren't really doing that anymore.

Then one of my visits ran long one month, and as I was leaving, the rest of the playgroup people started to show up. She was sheepish and clearly felt badly, and asked me if I'd like to stay, but the damage had been done and I frankly wanted to get out before I started to cry. My feelings were really, really hurt. I wondered for so long if it was a group decision to exclude me because I wasn't cool enough, or if they didn't like my sweet kids for some reason, or if she just didn't like me, even though our visits were always enjoyable and easy. I remember going home and crying. I am somewhat sensitive, and I was lonely as my husband was taking classes and working full time, and I felt like the rug had been pulled out from under me. Here I had thought I was making friends, and in my estimation, they had voted me off the island.

I was pretty hurt for awhile. I remember telling my husband that if my testimony wasn't pretty solid, I'd want to never go to church and sit next to these people again. I was removed from her route soon after that, I assume at her request. A new sister moved in who is one of my dearest friends to this day, and I got to know some other wonderful, lower-profile women in the ward. Over time the sting went away, I had my circle of friends, and everything was fine. But I do remember how humiliated I felt to even walk the hallways at church and wonder what people were saying about me, that she or they would go to such an effort to squeeze me out. I notice that there's an ebb and flow of cliquishness in our ward as people move out and in, but I have good, steady friends who are there for the right reasons, who have seen me through some tough times, and I hope they can say the same about me.

Sorry I'm getting long. My point is, I do wonder how it would have been if I were an investigator, or an inactive person trying to find my way back to activity. Over time I had to learn to harden myself in a way to the Queen Bees that are everywhere, including our Relief Societies, and make sure I'm there not for the other women, but to worship and to serve. I'm not saying I'm always perfect at it, but going in that attitude makes it a lot easier.

[Guest]

And I do have to say that, I believe under the leadership of a particularly amazing Relief Society president, our ward RS has evolved into a group that is largely very compassionate, kind, and inclusive. There are women that I assumed to be stuck-up who were actually shy or struggling in their own way. I don't think it's bad everywhere, but I think that whenever you get a bunch of women together, it takes the right kind of guidance and leadership to prevent it from becoming a chapter out of Queen Bees and Wanna Bees.

[Vort]

I don't mean to be flip. I learned this the hard way.

I am appalled.

Did you ever learn a reason for their exclusion of you?

[Guest]

Nope. I was just asking my husband if he thinks it was a group choice or just her. He thinks it was probably her. She's since moved out of state and while I stayed friendly with her, I never tried to strike up a friendship with her again, even when she initiated it. Hurt me once and all that. For all I know, I offended her at some point and she just made sure I stopped getting the information. It's hard to say.

Most of the friends I have in the ward now either didn't live here yet at that time, or weren't active in that group. Many that originally were have since moved.

[JudoMinja]

You are an inspiration jayanna-

You have been working so hard to help these poor sisters and their families who seem to be getting the short end of the stick in your ward, and I thank you for it. You will be so very blessed for your efforts, and you clearly have such a sweet, loving, and gentle heart.

I remember when I was in high-school that many of my non-member friends were considered the "stinky kids", as you put it. When people questioned why I spent time with them or tried to tell me I was waisting my time, I would refer to the scripture that the Savior came for the sinners, not the believers, and that Christ himself hung-out with the "stinky kids" of his time. And I honestly feel that my time with these people was far more fulfilling than if I'd spent time with those who were more accepted and popular.

It can be very hard to see someone we would expect to show Christ-like qualities do or say something that would cause offense to these dear friends, and I unfortunately experienced a situation where this happened to one of my friends. Unlike your struggle with what seems to be many offenses and your ability to bring these investigators back to church, my experience was only a singular event where I had brought one of my friends to church and she was showing a great interest in it. My Young Women's leader and Bishop targeted her and said some things to her that turned her away from investigation, and nothing I said or did was able to convince her to come back.

It hurt deeply. It was my very first experience with unChrist-like actions from members of my ward, and my testimony did- for a time- struggle because of it. Since then, I have seen a number of instances where members have said or done offensive things, and it always saddens me. My mother, in particular, was very hurt when the gossip-chain targeted her. It seemed all the sisters of the ward knew that my brother had gotten a girl pregnant through pre-marital relations before my mother did- and she heard about it through her VT before my brother. Many of the sisters seemed to have labeled her a bad parent and were very rude to her due to this situation, and my mother had a very hard time interacting with and trusting the other sisters of the ward. She felt like an outsider going to church and like all eyes were looking on her and casting judgement. But she just remembered that she went to church for Christ, to listen to the talks, and to teach her primary lessons. She wasn't there to socialize. It would have been much easier though, if sisters had been more loving, compassionate, and Christ-like instead of gossipy, cliquesh, and judgemental.

I've seen many other smaller examples of problems with "snobbishness" and unrighteous judgement in the church. My testimony remains strong because I know the people attending are not perfect, and I'm certain I've probably offended someone myself without even realizing it, and I have my own faults to work on. I am not a perfect example of Christ either, and I struggle with certain areas- mostly fellowshipping because I'm a bit anti-social. I am saddened when I see others who do not have as strong a testimony end up leaving due to an offense on the part of other members.

I think you are doing a wonderful job right now, jayanna, of helping these sisters and that you should strive not to let yourself become discouraged. Every ward has its "snobs", some more than others. It is just a sad fact, and something we all have to find ways to deal with. I, personally, try my best to not let their faults be my focus, as I should be striving to work on my own. I cannot control what they do, or how others perceive their actions and words, but I can control what I do. Keep your focus on personal improvement.

I see two possible courses of action with these "problem sisters" in your ward. Either keep ignoring it and go about your way continuing to do the good your doing, or find ways to bring attention to it. The second option may or may not achieve much, depending on how the sisters take it. They may be inspired to work on their issues... or not. Just remember that what they do is entirely out of your control, and strive always to do what you feel is most Christ-like. Christ was not afraid to put people in place when necessary, so please don't think you must always keep your mouth shut. Just do not do or say anything out of anger. Pray that you will know what to say/do in these situations before going to church, and act on any promptings you receive.

You are doing such a wonderful job. Thank you so much for your example.

[dahlia]

Wow. How come you ladies have so much time to gossip at RS? The only thing I've ever heard about another lady is if she's pregnant or is absent because she had the baby. : ) Otherwise, we have a little chit chat and then it's on to business.

As to getting up and leaving indicating agreement - I can gua.ran.****.tee you everyone would know just how I felt if I got up to leave after something such as you've indicated and it wouldn't be agreement!

No wonder investigators don't stay in your ward; I wouldn't either. Where is the Christian charity toward each other? Gee, if you can't be at least civil to people in the ward, how are you going to be decent to people out in the world?

Considering some of the stories I read on this board, I am very thankful that I wound up where I did.

[Dove]

Hello, Jayanna;

My heart goes out to you. This kind of behavior is the reason I have stopped going to church for the most part. Sad to say; but, how people treat me makes a huge difference in my life. For me, right now, I want to avoid situations that bring me down....

As I was reading your post, the serenity prayer came to mind; "God, grant the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."

I really appreciate what LMM said; but, I would approach it a little differently....I've decided that I can't change a person who doesn't want to be changed. Arguing with them or returning unkindness with unkindness, i.e., responding in kind, is only going to create contention and bad will/feelings, etc. If your really want to say something, by all means go ahead; but, just remember that it will have consequences....If people are dissing others in front of you, they probably have no qualm in dissing you behind your back. Gossip certainly can run rampant in cases like this. Besides, do you really want to come down to their level in being unkind?

Maybe a better way would be to simply compliment the person being criticized at the moment, and then remove yourself from the conversation somehow. Or just leaving, or defending the criticized person...I don't know. Like I said, you can't change people who want to be cruel.

It sounds like you are doing a great job of being a good example....It almost seems like you are doing more than even you can handle. Is there a system you could work out that would help everyone who needs a ride get to church yet not put the full burden on you? Is there anyone else in the ward willing to help with giving rides?

I am amazed that you go so far out of your way to help others. You sound like a wonderful person. There are so many examples in the Bible of people who are persecuted for the name of Christ, which sounds like you....I would suggest studying these examples for comfort and guidance. For example; Matt 5, "Blessed are they which are persecuted for rightesousness sake; for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you."

[Jezebel2011]

Is this just a local issue, or does this happen a lot of places? One day my daughter heard some of it and she told me that when she grows up and has kids she won't live here. She did say that she would let me move in next door though :)

I think we all have that type of person in every Ward, no matter where in the World it happens to be.

We have a RS Pres (a convert of 40 years) whom is outspoken that way and has said some really cutting things about Sisters. Totally uncalled for.

I tend to just keep away from her and her venom.

To be honest they are to be pitied. That they have spent time on the Gospel and in prayer and yet can still come out with such hurtful garbage.

[FunnySheila]

It is a sister like you Janayya, who drove me to my first church service (and at that point she didn't even know me). It was really hard going for the first time, and she got me to sit in her row with her family and helped me with my kids (I have young kids and am a single mum) and has been a wonderful help to me and such a comfort.

Don't stop being wonderful and don't let them discourage you on your efforts, it's through women like you that us converts (and many who make up the church are converts) find the journey so much easier.

It is so scary being new and learning the ropes.

It's a pity there are people in the church who forget what church is all about and instead allow themselves to bad-mouth and disparrage others in conceited and arrogant mind-states.

As someone who has been the brunt of cruel comments at times over my life about pretty much everything and anything, I like to remember the scripture, "Judge not lest ye be judged," and the one about looking for the moat in your own eye before digging around in your brother's for that teeny thorn (my paraphrasing - I can't remember the parable off the top of my head).

As for how I react when someone speaks cruelly of another in my presence, I tend to either speak highly of the victim, or defend the victim quite loudly. Like LoudMouth says, wit is a good tool in such a situation.

My hat goes off to you, I applaud you for your effort, and know that those women you are helping won't forget what you are doing - they might get discouraged and maybe even leave altogether, but at the end of the day you are planting wonderful seeds of love and kindness and hope! Sometimes it takes years for those seeds to grow, but they are there.

Thank you from a convert who received help from someone like you! :-)

[rameumptom]

I would talk with the RS president later on. It is not her responsibility to judge others, but to help and bless them. She cannot do that if she's holding judgment over them, nor will they trust her. Such things said in public by a leader in the ward ends up getting around, can cause divisions and hurt feelings. I would suggest to the RS president that she go serve this sister, rather than judge her. Perhaps with some assistance, this sister could learn to manage her kids better, and the RS president could be a blessing, rather than someone with a beam in her eye. And Since she made the statement publicly, she should also apologize publicly in front of the sisters she made the statement to.

If the RS president will not cooperate, then talk with the Bishop. He is the judge in Israel for the ward. He will not want to see one of the leaders of the ward demeaning and destroying someone else, for any reason.

And yes, I've done this before on many occasions. I've seen whole stakes torn apart by such things, and it takes courage to stand up against the gossip and judging, and to help people see the Christ-like way of doing things. Bishops, and sometimes stake presidents, need to be involved to manage such things before they get so big they destroy a ward or stake. About 30-40 years ago, one of the 70 had to excommunicate several members (including leaders) in the La Paz Bolivia area, because their gossip destroyed a man's reputation and life. The man was innocent of the charges, but would now have to begin his life again, with everyone thinking ill of him.

Had the local leaders stopped the problem early, it would not have led to a General Authority having to step in and hold council over so many in order to stop the problem.

Edited January 4, 2012 by rameumptom

[Guest]

You know how we get to sustain our leadership? There's NO WAY I'm sustaining your RS Pres. In your shoes, not only am I putting her in her place (nicely but firmly without anger, of course) right at the moment she makes a dumb statement, I'm telling the bishopric I cannot sustain her in that calling and have him decide what he wants to do about it.

In the meantime, I'm going to have to do some diplomatic damage control to those offended and try my best to get them to understand that LDS church are run by imperfect people too.

But then, I'm not one to just ignore something that needs to be addressed. If it was just another sister in church, I'd do the Eowyn way and ignore them. An RS Pres or VT is different.

[Vort]

I am aghast at the stories shared in this thread. I have nothing constructive to add, except perhaps that many people and even wards are not like this.

[Guest]

I am aghast at the stories shared in this thread. I have nothing constructive to add, except perhaps that many people and even wards are not like this.

I've been to 4 wards in my lifetime and none of them are like this. All 4 wards are actually super awesome - yes, there are problems, but not even within 1,000 miles close to this and the other orson card thread.

I wonder if it's a "only in Utah" thing? It might be just a culture thing - I mean, if the majority is born and raised LDS in the town, it could be that the church becomes the breeding ground for pride and prejudice instead of the safe haven. I'm, of course, just blabbing not knowing what I'm saying...

[Bini]

I am aghast at the stories shared in this thread. I have nothing constructive to add, except perhaps that many people and even wards are not like this.

Not sure how familiar you are with RS but you get a bunch of women together and you get a bunch of yakitty-yak going on too. That includes the un-intentional hurtful comment and the malicious gossip as well. But from my own experience when looking back, I saw less poor conduct actually taking placce in church, and more of it happening outside of church when running into each other on a daily basis. Growing up I remember seeing many of the RS standing out on their driveways gossiping with each other about this person and that person. It isn't that unusual.

[Bini]

I wonder if it's a "only in Utah" thing? It might be just a culture thing - I mean, if the majority is born and raised LDS in the town, it could be that the church becomes the breeding ground for pride and prejudice instead of the safe haven. I'm, of course, just blabbing not knowing what I'm saying...

You're not blabbing. Cultural differences do exist. But I can only make extreme comparisons, that being LDS members in Asia and those here in good ole Utah. First thing I noticed when I moved to Utah was that the members (in general) took a lot more for granted than the ones in the Philippines, for example. I remember my family having to plan ahead to get to any church event on time because (a) the traffic was horrendous and (b) the travel distance was lengthy, as opposed to walking to the nearest ward building in your neighbourhood here in Utah.

[JudoMinja]

I am aghast at the stories shared in this thread. I have nothing constructive to add, except perhaps that many people and even wards are not like this.

I don't know how many wards have problems like this in comparison to ones that don't, but I do know that problems with gossip can be very prevalent among Relief Socitey sisters. And it is always a few individuals that cause problems and give all the sisters a bad rep. For instance, in my mother's ward, I know for a fact that there are at least three individuals who fed the chain of gossip and created problems for my mother and other sisters. Just three "problem sisters" in a ward of hundreds can have an enormous debilitating effect.

My family moved quite a bit as my father was in the military, and my mother tells me that there were problems with gossip in all the wards, but none as severe as her current ward. There was one other ward that presented some problems with serious judgementalism and snobbery out of the many we attended, but this was already well contained and the good members kept it very well balanced.

[Madriglace]

This kind of thing happens in every ward in every country. Seems like folks just don't get the part about living a Christ like life. This is not a butts in the seats on Sunday religion this is a way of life.

As I have gotten older I have become more and more vocal ... I am way past the days of being nice and keeping my mouth shut. My take would be to speak up and then move on. As members of the church we are accused of not being Christian ... behavior like this is so not Christian. I am afraid I would have to say something like "Gee it must be nice that you are perfect enough to judge someone else".

You are doing the best thing. Making these new members feel welcome and loved. I know in our ward someone asked an investigator to move because they didn't like the smell of cigarette smoke ... really and just how awful would their sins smell if they had an ordor? We need to stand up for these people ... the Savior helped the poor, the sick, the needy ... where do people get off thinking they are above the Him?

OK off my soap box ..... all people have value. One of of the prophets said the every new member needs 3 things ... a friend, a job and to be nurtured by the good word of God. We are responsible for all those things.

One of the dear sisters that I was lucky enough to VT for years went to a RS homemaking day early in her life in the church, she worked on a quilt for an hour or so and another sister who didn't like her work picked out the stitches, this sweet sister left the church and never came back until the day she died last year. So sad ... this year we will do temple work for her and her husband ... nothing we could do on earth could change that hurt.

[Backroads]

My little sister, years ago, nearly stopped attending Young Women's because one of our leaders (ironically, one of my favorite people I have ever met) repeatedly made fun of her at girl's camp--and not just the witty roasting joke that went too far, but really hurtful things, to her face, beyind her back. And this was a supposedly responsible adult. I was bitter toward the woman for awhile; today, I really do mainly remember her many wonderful qualities and the many things she did do for the girls and figure what she did was a bad slip of judgment and maturity.

I do believe that most people are good, or at least attempt to be good; but they just happen to be human, mess up, aren't quite right in their beliefs, etc. In fact, I found myself wondering if the sister in Eowyn's story was subtly trying to apologize with her iniations of kindness.

That being said, my immediate response to some of these situations would have been a lot more vindictive. I'm with Rammy--I do think in quite a few cases it is better to say something to someone; nip it in the bud, so to speak. Because such behavior is NOT okay and while it is all well and good and downright crucial to be Christlike I think we often need to go beyond being nice and take a stand.

Of course, my responses would have possibly been mean. I think I would have descended to the level of asking these sisters why they bothered coming to church if they didn't believe in being Christ-like. Which probably would have backfired.

But even so I see nothing wrong with letting these women know that what they did was unacceptable and hurtful.

I wonder if people like this realize how many people they alienate at the price of pleasing a few people.

[RescueMom]

I live in a ward that has these issues also. As a person who has been inactive and then come back, I have plenty of people who try to trap me in my past, and I think some of them will never see me as changed. However, the Bishop has also seen this (and I think it's not just me) and has worked hard at changing the attitudes of those who are so judgmental.

Jayanna,

I think you are doing the Christlike thing....I think the others are not. I'd be tempted to walk up to them and say 'I'm taking back your Christianity card cause you don't meet the requirements'.

Eowyn,

I am sorry that happened to you, I've had almost the same experience.

In fact my ward was so bad that I ended up going inactive, and my children both left the church their YW/YM leaders were so harsh on them for being from a single parent family. Both of them would be in tears after every meeting, meeting after meeting, for about a year before I finally said they didn't have to go anymore. My daughter has since returned...my son is a full fledged Evangelical now. I do blame myself because I should have done more than I did, instead of just complaining to the Bishop at the time, I should have made him do something more. I should have worked harder at keeping them in the church, but it's hard to see your children in tears every single Sunday because of the cruel words of the Adults in the ward.

[Dravin]

I am aghast at the stories shared in this thread. I have nothing constructive to add, except perhaps that many people and even wards are not like this.

None that I've noticed either. I've noticed a trend though, and it might just be confirmation bias, but it seems the majority of these kind of events revolve around women. Either woman are on both sides of the giving and receiving offense line or just on the receiving offense line. Now before anyone freaks out, men are perfectly capable of being offended and giving offense.

I'm wondering if it's differences in the way the genders handle social conflict. Either in that women are more sensitive to these things (in keying in on them and the implications they draw from them) or that they're more likely to share their hurt with others (or a combination of both).

Edited January 4, 2012 by Dravin