Adoption

[Tyler90AZ]

I am aware that some Christian religions believes we are Gods children only through adoption. Why? If God had a hand in creating Adam then it would follow that we are all his physical children and spiritual children. I think maybe the scriptures are referring to the fact that we are in a fallen state. That when we accept Christ he adopts us from our fallen state to a godlike state.

Just interested in what people have to say about this issue or talks given.

[embleau]

It has to do with Israelites. Evangelicals say they are God's adopted children because they believe unless they are Jewish they aren't REALLY God's children, but through Christ they are.

[Tyler90AZ]

The Israelites may have been God's chosen people, but they are not his only people. Despite not being his chosen people everyone are sons and daughters of God. We can all be traced back to Adam.

[mnn727]

Remember, we were with the Father in the beginning, intelligence's can not be created (D&C 93:29) thus God can not be the actual Father of us (who we are, our intelligence or identity) physically, so becoming his spirit children must be some kind of adoption process rather than a birthing process.

My 2 cents -- I know its not a popular belief, but it is scriptural.

[Just_A_Guy]

I am aware that some Christian religions believes we are Gods children only through adoption. Why? If God had a hand in creating Adam then it would follow that we are all his physical children and spiritual children. I think maybe the scriptures are referring to the fact that we are in a fallen state. That when we accept Christ he adopts us from our fallen state to a godlike state.

Just interested in what people have to say about this issue or talks given.

I'll defer to Prisonchaplain, but my understanding is that evangelical Christianity teaches that on accepting Christ He makes us into a new creature and is, to all intents and purposes, the Father of our new, saved selves.

This idea also pops up in the Book of Mormon, by the way--King Benjamin's sermon, in early Mosiah, IIRC.

[Dravin]

I am aware that some Christian religions believes we are Gods children only through adoption. Why? If God had a hand in creating Adam then it would follow that we are all his physical children and spiritual children.

They'll agree we're all his creations but it doesn't follow by virtue of their view of creation that we are his spiritual and physical children in any more sense than whales are. If you're going to make that assertion you need to tighten it up some.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Dravin

[Vort]

They'll agree we're all his creations but it doesn't follow by virtue of their view of creation that we are his spiritual and physical children in any more sense than whales are. If you're going to make that assertion you need to tighten it up some.

My understanding is that many of them think our relationship with God is that of whales, or bats, or insects, to God: Created to Creator. To me, this idea flies in the face of Christ's clear teachings -- but then, I've never thought that the beliefs of larger Christianity about God and our relationship to him has ever had much to do with scriptural teachings.

[Tyler90AZ]

Remember, we were with the Father in the beginning, intelligence's can not be created (D&C 93:29) thus God can not be the actual Father of us (who we are, our intelligence or identity) physically, so becoming his spirit children must be some kind of adoption process rather than a birthing process.

My 2 cents -- I know its not a popular belief, but it is scriptural.

My understanding is that everything is intelligence. That God created* intelligences to take different forms. That we are his literal sons and daughters cause he creates our intelligence to be like him. Unlike animals or anything else, humans are created in his image. The fact that were created in his image shows that were his sons and daughters, not animals.

*I think shaped would be a better word.

I am looking for what we believe. I understand we our sons and daughters of god but how. Is it through adoption or what?

Just-a-guy - That is pretty much what I was getting at, turning us from a fallen state to a Godlike. You used the correct terminology though, always helps.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Tyler90AZ

[embleau]

The Israelites may have been God's chosen people, but they are not his only people. Despite not being his chosen people everyone are sons and daughters of God. We can all be traced back to Adam.

You asked why they believe that, I answered from my background. not to debate. I grew up most of my year until I was 32 in Southern Baptist and non-denominational churches. Just telling you what was always told to me on this subject, not that I believe or agree with it or that ALL others have the same answer.

Prisonchaplain being from a different faith background might have a different insight on it. Not that his answer is the de facto answer either.

[pam]

No person can receive the Gospel without becoming of the seed of Abraham. If they are not of his blood by descent they become so by adoption.

Joseph Fielding Smith

[Seminarysnoozer]

I am aware that some Christian religions believes we are Gods children only through adoption. Why? If God had a hand in creating Adam then it would follow that we are all his physical children and spiritual children. I think maybe the scriptures are referring to the fact that we are in a fallen state. That when we accept Christ he adopts us from our fallen state to a godlike state.

Just interested in what people have to say about this issue or talks given.

In this discussion, I think it is important to separate the two aspects of our dual being, the spirit and the body. Most Christians are only talking about our physical body, which I think is pretty close to the truth. It is when we talk about our spirit selves that being a child of God comes into play.

If we are only talking about the body then it is important to understand that we do not have bodies that are the offspring of the body that was created in the Garden. Our bodies are offspring of the fallen Adam and Eve, which at that point, they had different bodies than the ones created in the Garden. Our bodies are the offspring of corrupted, fallen bodies.

By becoming a child of Christ, through the principles and ordinances of the gospel then Christ can pull this corrupted body out of its corrupted state into a glorified one, that is in a stratified way (varied bodies, one like the sun, one like the moon and many different ones like the stars) like His. Christ's action is the counteraction to both deaths created by the fall, and so the rebirth related to the spiritual death caused by the fall labels it as a "child of Christ", even though throughout the whole time we were and always will be children of our Heavenly Parents. The metaphorical "death" (separation from God) requires a metaphorical "birth" (reuniting with God).

[Vort]

If we are only talking about the body then it is important to understand that we do not have bodies that are the offspring of the body that was created in the Garden. Our bodies are offspring of the fallen Adam and Eve, which at that point, they had different bodies than the ones created in the Garden.

I have never heard this doctrine. Are you saying that at the Fall, the spirits of Adam and Eve were removed from their Garden bodies and placed into other, telestial bodies? Or are you saying that the nature of their Garden bodies was so greatly changed in the Fall that they were, in effect, no longer the same bodies?

[mikbone]

Moses 3:4-7

Makes it pretty difficult to deny a spiritual creation of man...

[Jenamarie]

I have never heard this doctrine. Are you saying that at the Fall, the spirits of Adam and Eve were removed from their Garden bodies and placed into other, telestial bodies? Or are you saying that the nature of their Garden bodies was so greatly changed in the Fall that they were, in effect, no longer the same bodies?

I thought their bodies "changed" from immortal and perfect, to mortal and corruptable (subject to disease, injury, etc.), and from being unable to have children, to being able to have children.

Not sure I could pull up any scriptural support for that though, but I'm pretty sure I remember hearing it in Seminary.

[Blackmarch]

I am aware that some Christian religions believes we are Gods children only through adoption. Why? If God had a hand in creating Adam then it would follow that we are all his physical children and spiritual children. I think maybe the scriptures are referring to the fact that we are in a fallen state. That when we accept Christ he adopts us from our fallen state to a godlike state.

Just interested in what people have to say about this issue or talks given.

yes. we are both

in sinning we gave up our birthright, and the right to be in the presence or family of God. Christ purchases us or "re-adopts" us into it. So yes it deals with our fallen nature and yes we are adopted, even tho we are technically his children.

The Bible really has very little on what happened before this life or what happens after, and where there is little information there is room for a lot of wandering... and i imagine that the general philosophies of God had a hand in shaping many of the beliefs regarding God's nature and our relationship to it.

[Seminarysnoozer]

I have never heard this doctrine. Are you saying that at the Fall, the spirits of Adam and Eve were removed from their Garden bodies and placed into other, telestial bodies? Or are you saying that the nature of their Garden bodies was so greatly changed in the Fall that they were, in effect, no longer the same bodies?

Yes, the later description. How great the change would be equivalent to the change from perfection to corruption, however much of a change you think that is.

An immortal body is not just a body that doesn't die, it is one that matches perfectly with the power and potential the spirit holds. Our body in its current state is suppressive to the power of our spirit self. The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. If the body was equal to the spirit in its potential then the Apostles wouldn't have fallen asleep in the garden. We could probably all fast for 40 days and nights as well.

There was such a change in the body that Adam couldn't understand why he was sacrificing other than to say because God told him to. Whereas, in the garden he was walking and talking with God, naming animals etc.

I realize "blood" is mostly metaphoric in its description but to run with that description, if there is no blood, then there is no need for lungs, nose, liver, spleen, kidneys, bladder, bone marrow, blood vessels, heart, etc. And, yes, I have heard people say 'well, there is still some form of fluid just goes by a different name other than blood'. Well, I don't buy that because the flesh is still called flesh and the bones are still called bones even though they are different flesh and bones because they don't die or atrophy etc. A rose by any other name is still a rose. If it truly is a body without blood then it would have to dramatically change in its characteristics but could still maintain a certain "image". And many would argue that the ability to reproduce was dependent on that change as well.

Bottom line is the change is equal to the fall from perfection to corruption. To me, that is a long way and therefore a big change. Similar to the change that took place with many lifeforms with the fall. Did roses have thorns in the garden? Did a lion have the drive from it's hypothalamus to kill and eat meat? These are dramatic changes.

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