God and Jesus Christ. Please help.

[Ijustforgotit]

Lately i have struggled somewhat... I dont know how to feel and please dont judge me. I just got sealed to my wife back in April after 1 year of marriage... It was one of the best things in the world!!! Whats been bothering me is that every other christian religion believes Christ is our God.. but we do not?? We believe god the father is our god right??? So at times i have felt guilty even in my prayers for not giving enough recognition to Christ for what he did for me... He died for my sins but am i supposed to thank god the father for that? I thank god the father in my prayers for the attonement and the sacrifice Christ made for me. But somehow i feel that this attonement doesnt recieve enough of my focus because i pray to god the father not jesus christ.... why am i feeling this way.??? is this wrong??? what do i do?? please any thoughts? Has anyone else ever felt this way?

[Just_A_Guy]

Christ and the Father are both our Gods. The official Church position is that we "worship" the Father with the Son as intermediary. In my experience, though, "worship" is a pretty slippery definition and in practice I think most of what we do can be counted as worshiping the Son as well.

I think the Atonement is a central feature of the Church theologically, though certainly different individuals and congregations will inevitably have "gospel hobbies" that may detract from the primacy of the Atonement to some degree. Ultimately, it's up to you to determine the role that you think the Atonement should play in your life and align your communal and individual worship activities accordingly.

[prisonchaplain]

One aspect of LDS theology I find intriguing is the statement that Jesus is Jehovah. I firmly agree, and would love to be a fly on the wall in a conversation between a Jehovah's Witness and an LDS spokesperson. Nevertheless, the Father does seem to get some supremacy--and more than just because he is Father.

[applepansy]

I look at it this way. I try my hardest to repent and live a Christ-like life. I honor my Savior every time I succeed in being Christ-like. I will be eternally grateful to my Savior for enabling me to return to my Heavenly Father's presence (if I choose to act in such a way to qualify). The only way to make it is to be Christ-like.

What better way to show our regard or Christ than to emulate Him?

My prayers are to my Heavenly Father in Christ's name because its only through Christ that we can return to our Heavenly Father.

[EarlJibbs]

A very valid question.

Christ himself prayed to his Father (God the Father), He did what he did for his Father and taught us his example. He wanted all the glory to go to his Father. This is his example. By giving praise to God the Father, are we not honoring Christ himself? He is the one who taught us to give glory to God.

Christ is a huge part of my life. Remembering him, his sacrafices, his teachings, and I honor him by Praising God for Christ. Thanking God for Christ.

Every time we follow Christs teachings, we show thanks. Applepansy said it well, what better way to show our regard than to emulate Him. He knows our hearts and wants us to do as he has done, give glory to God.

Edited July 3, 2012 by EarlJibbs
Re-word

[prisonchaplain]

I would not disagree with what anyone has posted. However, the OP seems to be driving at something that is common in traditional Christian circles--the worship of Jesus. For example, we sing: Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, there's just something about that name/Master, Savior, Jesus, like the fragrance after the rain/Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, let all heaven and earth proclaim/Kings and Kingdoms shall all pass away/But there's something about that name.

Is that kind of adoration wrong, okay...exemplary?

This passage (Revlation 5) comes to mind:

11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;

12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

I took J-A-G's answer to mean that an LDS member could, if they sought approval and gained it from the Spirit, worship Christ in that manner, without compromising allegiance to the Father. Yes?

[Just_A_Guy]

I took J-A-G's answer to mean that an LDS member could, if they sought approval and gained it from the Spirit, worship Christ in that manner, without compromising allegiance to the Father. Yes?

I think privately, certainly. For public worship, it gets a little dicier. There have been some very clear statements by LDS authorities that we worship God the Father, not God the Son. But then, the LDS hymnal common Christian hymns addressed directly to Jesus ("Jesus, Lover of my Soul", "Jesus, Savior, Pilot Me" etc), and has a few of its own ("O Savior Thou who Wearest a Crown", "I Believe in Christ", which includes the line "I'll worship Him with all my might/He is the source of truth and light").

Edited July 3, 2012 by Just_A_Guy

[Vort]

"I Believe in Christ", which includes the line "I'll worship Him with all my might/He is the source of truth and light"

Penned by Bruce R. McConkie, the apostle who claimed that in the true and full sense, worship is reserved for the Father, not the Son. Obviously, this is a concept that is only inexactly reflected in our word usage. "Worship" does not fully convey the concepts involved; they must be learned and perceived by the Spirit.

My great-great-uncle wrote "Come unto Jesus", each verse of which begins with the invitation "Come unto Jesus". Originally, the first and fourth verses began that way, but the second verse began "Call unto Jesus" and the third began "Pray unto Jesus" (which accounts for the respective "He'll ever heed you" and "He'll surely hear you" lyrics that follow).

[rameumptom]

Christ asked us to give all glory to the Father. Christ taught us to pray to the Father "in the name of the Son", because Christ receives his glory from the Father, not us. We honor Christ when we honor his (and our) Father.

[skalenfehl]

OP, prayerfully read D&C 109, all of it.

Doctrine and Covenants 109

Edited July 3, 2012 by skalenfehl

[Ijustforgotit]

Thank you all for your kind words and advice. I will use the suggestions given. I appreciate it.

[Ijustforgotit]

Thank you all so much for your replies

[FunkyTown]

To be honest, this is one of the confusing things I find about traditional Christianity. The Savior taught us how to pray and began his prayer, "Our Father, who Art in Heaven."

He never prayed to himself, always sought to do the will of His Father, but many people far wiser than myself pray to the Savior and tell me this is what I should do.

Ultimately, I have to trust God that He wouldn't lead me astray and simply listen to all that I can and decide what must be right.

I would not disagree with what anyone has posted. However, the OP seems to be driving at something that is common in traditional Christian circles--the worship of Jesus. For example, we sing: Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, there's just something about that name/Master, Savior, Jesus, like the fragrance after the rain/Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, let all heaven and earth proclaim/Kings and Kingdoms shall all pass away/But there's something about that name.

Is that kind of adoration wrong, okay...exemplary?

This passage (Revlation 5) comes to mind:

11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;

12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

I took J-A-G's answer to mean that an LDS member could, if they sought approval and gained it from the Spirit, worship Christ in that manner, without compromising allegiance to the Father. Yes?

[prisonchaplain]

To be honest, this is one of the confusing things I find about traditional Christianity. The Savior taught us how to pray and began his prayer, "Our Father, who Art in Heaven."

He never prayed to himself, always sought to do the will of His Father, but many people far wiser than myself pray to the Savior and tell me this is what I should do.

You seem to have answered your own question. It would have been bizarre for Jesus to pray to himself. There was no reason for him to do so. Further, his mission was indeed to represent his Father. On the other hand, it would not be strange for us to pray to him. We are, after all, his ambassadors.

Jesus did give us his name. He told us to use it to pray for healing, for deliverance from demons, and for blessing and forgiving of sins. So, when I pray, "Heal my brother of sickness in Jesus' name, amen," am I praying to Jesus? Through him, with an implied "to the Father?"

For most personal prayers and petitions we join LDS in praying to the Father in the name of the Son. Yet, there are episodes in the New Testament in which Jesus receives worship. Thomas proclaimed to Jesus, while on his knees, "My Lord and my God!" Again, the angels declare his glories and worship him with song.

On earth Jesus did not sit on the right hand of the Father. He was the suffering Messiah. In resurrection he is exalted.

When Jesus taught us to pray, he gave us a model. I would see that as thin gruel indeed for arguing that Jesus' prohibited prayers directed towards him. Otherwise, I suppose we could argue that we should simply recite the Lord's prayer verbatim.

Edited July 4, 2012 by prisonchaplain

[Maureen]

When I was growing up, I was taught this prayer that we said for grace (blessing of the food).

Come Lord Jesus

Be our guest,

Let these gifts to us be blessed.

Amen.

M.

[Just_A_Guy]

Maureen, that's awesome! I went to a Pentecostal pre-school (always thought it was Lutheran until I grew up and googled them) and that was what we said before every snack time (except it was "Let this food be blessed . . .").

Edited July 4, 2012 by Just_A_Guy

[FunkyTown]

On earth Jesus did not sit on the right hand of the Father. He was the suffering Messiah. In resurrection he is exalted.

When Jesus taught us to pray, he gave us a model. I would see that as thin gruel indeed for arguing that Jesus' prohibited prayers directed towards him. Otherwise, I suppose we could argue that we should simply recite the Lord's prayer verbatim.

And some people do. When I was growing up, up until about the age of 9(Maybe a bit later, maybe a bit earlier), we did two things every morning: We sang the national anthem and we repeated the Lord's Prayer - Verbatim. This in spite of Matthew 6:7 telling us not to use vain repetitions.

The Disciples were specifically being instructed how they should pray.

He could have said, "And when you pray, you should end 'In Jesus name, amen', but he didn't. Or he could have said, "When I leave this world, you should pray directly to me', but he didn't. It can be argued that he had his reasons not to at this point, and those points might be inferred, but it's all just guessing essentially.

I admit I don't know the answers to these things. Not by myself. I pray that I'll be enlightened and know, and that I'll have a heart open enough to accept my answer. Until I gain a personal testimony of the true order of prayer, I pray to God, through His Son.

[prisonchaplain]

Funky, we both interpret Jesus' prayer literally. However, you seem to take it as establishing boundaries for how to pray. It reminds me of the reason one sect does not allow the use of mechanical instruments during their Sunday worship--there's no record of the early church ever doing so in the New Testament.

My default is to pray to the Father in Jesus name. However, I will sometimes pray in the authority of Jesus name, without specifically addressing the Father. Additionally, in compliance with examples such as Rev. 5:12-14, I will sometimes express worship of the Son. To say that Jesus never called for it is an argument from silence. BTW, some same-sex couples argue that since Jesus never directly addressed homosexuality, it is no big deal. Another argument from silence. These tend to be very thin gruel in their persuasiveness.

[Vort]

Funky, we both interpret Jesus' prayer literally. However, you seem to take it as establishing boundaries for how to pray.

Not sure how else one would interpret the verse, "After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven..."

[prisonchaplain]

Not sure how else one would interpret the verse, "After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven..."

"In this way"

"Like this"

"In this fashion"

"Here's an example"

"Here's my style...you'd do good to pray similarly"

"Hey, I said pray to the Father, and since I'm the Son, don't pray to me"

OR..."It's okay to pray to me since your my disciple, and the Father and I are one"

Definitely not: "Using these exact words"

I could go on...but since we clearly all agree that Jesus did not expect us to simply recite the example he gave us, there is precious little evidence here to suggest that we could not pray to Jesus--especially if one is trinitarian. I take the bolded section to simply say Jesus was giving us an example of a way to pray--not making hardline doctrine about who to pray to, what to pray for, what not to pray for (if it's not there are we not to include it???). As an example, there is nothing in this prayer about healing. Are we now prohibited from praying for healing?

[Anddenex]

Lately i have struggled somewhat... I dont know how to feel and please dont judge me. I just got sealed to my wife back in April after 1 year of marriage... It was one of the best things in the world!!! Whats been bothering me is that every other christian religion believes Christ is our God.. but we do not?? We believe god the father is our god right??? So at times i have felt guilty even in my prayers for not giving enough recognition to Christ for what he did for me... He died for my sins but am i supposed to thank god the father for that? I thank god the father in my prayers for the attonement and the sacrifice Christ made for me. But somehow i feel that this attonement doesnt recieve enough of my focus because i pray to god the father not jesus christ.... why am i feeling this way.??? is this wrong??? what do i do?? please any thoughts? Has anyone else ever felt this way?

I find this verse in the Book of Mormon intriguing, and still have been seeking to fully comprehend aspects within it, 2 Nephi 11: 7:

"For if there be no Christ there be no God; and if there be no God we are not, for there could have been no creation. But there is a God, and he is Christ, and he cometh in the fulness of his own time.

[Maureen]

I find this verse in the Book of Mormon intriguing, and still have been seeking to fully comprehend aspects within it, 2 Nephi 11: 7:

"For if there be no Christ there be no God; and if there be no God we are not, for there could have been no creation. But there is a God, and he is Christ, and he cometh in the fulness of his own time.

Not only that one but I have noticed that the BofM and D&C have several verses that mention Jesus is God. Here are some:

And as I spake concerning the convincing of the Jews, that Jesus is the very Christ, it must needs be that the Gentiles be convinced also that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God; (2 Nephi 26:12)

And behold, they began to pray; and they did pray unto Jesus, calling him their Lord and their God. (3 Nephi 19:18)

And also that ye may believe the gospel of Jesus Christ, which ye shall have among you; and also that the Jews, the covenant people of the Lord, shall have other witness besides him whom they saw and heard, that Jesus, whom they slew, was the very Christ and the very God. (Mormon 3:21)

And I, Jesus Christ, your Lord and your God, have spoken it unto you, that I might bring about my righteous purposes unto the children of men. Amen. (D&C 17:9)

And I, Jesus Christ, your Lord and your God, have spoken it. (D&C 18:33)

Behold, I, Jesus Christ, your Lord and your God, and your Redeemer, by the power of my Spirit have spoken it. Amen. (D&C 18:47)

Listen to the voice of Jesus Christ, your Lord, your God, and your Redeemer, whose word is quick and powerful. (D&C 27:1)

M.

Edited July 6, 2012 by Maureen

[Hala401]

Lately i have struggled somewhat... I dont know how to feel and please dont judge me. I just got sealed to my wife back in April after 1 year of marriage... It was one of the best things in the world!!! Whats been bothering me is that every other christian religion believes Christ is our God.. but we do not?? We believe god the father is our god right??? So at times i have felt guilty even in my prayers for not giving enough recognition to Christ for what he did for me... He died for my sins but am i supposed to thank god the father for that? I thank god the father in my prayers for the attonement and the sacrifice Christ made for me. But somehow i feel that this attonement doesnt recieve enough of my focus because i pray to god the father not jesus christ.... why am i feeling this way.??? is this wrong??? what do i do?? please any thoughts? Has anyone else ever felt this way?

Gosh, I was just studying this. John 20:17, Matt 25:40, Matt 12:49, Matt 12:50. According to those scriptures, Jesus Christ refers to us as his brothers and sisters.

For me, it is very easy to see Heavenly Father as the ONE God, the most high.

I've been struggling in my prayer too, and finally decided that what ever I did, Heavenly Father would know what I meant. I trust Heavenly Father.