A very, very disturbing look into the evil in the world.

[ClickyClack]

If you want to see just what kind of evil is in the world, listen to this podcast, "22 faces".

Be warned: It IS disturbing. Particularly when the they speak of just how prevalent this is, even with in Utah, and even within the church. In the late 1980's, the Church even formed a special inquiry into the matter, leading to all of the material being turned over to authorities, for further investigation into the matter. The back history on it literally seems as if it could come right out of a sci-fi/fantasy/horror/conspiracy movie.

Edited August 9, 2012 by ClickyClack

[Guest]

What is it about?

[annewandering]

Your link is not working. Yes it is very prevalent. Maybe not next door but I have met a number of people who have gone through this. I used to run a mental health chat room. People do lie but we got to know a number of people who went through similar abuse.

It is hard to understand how people can be so evil. I dont understand it except to know that they have given over their lives to satan in a very real way.

It is about multiple personalities and satanic ritual abuse.

[ClickyClack]

Your link is not working. Yes it is very prevalent. Maybe not next door but I have met a number of people who have gone through this. I used to run a mental health chat room. People do lie but we got to know a number of people who went through similar abuse.

It is hard to understand how people can be so evil. I dont understand it except to know that they have given over their lives to satan in a very real way.

It is about multiple personalities and satanic ritual abuse.

The link takes you to the page where you can click on "listen". This is a direct link to the file.

Eowyn: Multiple personality disorder, caused by systematic, ritualistic abuse, including techniques developed in Nazi Germany, brought to the US as part of the CIA's "project MK Ultra", and transferred to satanic cults.

The back story sounds so bizarre and unbelievable that I had to do some more research before accepting that it might be true.

Honestly, the things that I found about MKultra, just from officially released documents, not from the tinfoil-hat crowd, are enough to make me want to say "Stop the world, I want to get off."

Edited August 9, 2012 by ClickyClack

[annewandering]

Just a minute. One I go nowhere with that link because it is a dead link.

More importantly. Multiple personalities, called DID or mpd/did by health officials but multiples by people who are, are not all caused by ritualistic abuse. SOME is caused that way. Most of the strongly multiple people are that way because of sexual and physical abuse as children. Most occur before the age of 12. After that it is almost always caused by an accident causing damage to the brain. By the age of 12 the personality is firmly fixed in the brain so is more difficult for new ones to be created.

Ritualistic abuse is a horrible version of abuse, no doubt, and many are caused this way. In fact many of the ritualists DELIBERATELY attempt to cause the child to become multiple. It becomes easy to control and hide what is going on if the child is multiple.

For the record I do not believe in any cia caused version.

Edited August 9, 2012 by annewandering

[ClickyClack]

Just a minute. One I go nowhere with that link because it is a dead link.

Huh. Both of them work for me.

Of course, not all cases are from ritualistic abuse. The main subject in this, however, was, and one of her caregivers talks of the cases that do stem from it, and the history.

Honestly, talking of Nazi occultists being brought over to work for the CIA's mind control projects sounds like loony hooey... but seems to be well documented, and the type of ritualistic abuse he developed - ritualistic torture and hypnosis, specifically designed to bring about multiples and mind control - has been found all over the nation in satanic rituals.

The Church looked into it when LDS social services counselors found a good number of the survivors, and brought it up. A special inquiry was formed, and many victims were interviewed. Elder Pace, the head, said that he could have interviewed three times as many. The main detective who investigated the "Zion Society" eventually went on to Homeland Security to train law enforcement across the nation in it, because it is that widespread.

Even if you don't listen to the podcast, I think that everyone could benefit from reading Elder Pace's report. It is downright... chilling.

Like I said... stop the world, I want to get off.

Edited August 9, 2012 by ClickyClack

[bytebear]

I am not impressed.

Twenty-Two Faces | Backward Messages

[ClickyClack]

Fair enough. I would love for this to all be wrong!

[annewandering]

I am not impressed.

Twenty-Two Faces | Backward Messages

I am seriously not impressed with that review. I do not know if the 22 Faces is valid but I do know that the diagnosis of multiples and also satanic ritualistic torture is a fact. Not all of the ritualistic abuse is called satanic but it certainly is of satan. And yes it does happen.

You probably should know I am not a person that jumps on satanic ritual crap. I dont think there are all sorts of things that are auto satanic. Most of those followers of all those ideas are crazy in my opinion.

Still I know people who have endured incredible tortures. Unbelievable tortures.

[pam]

Since it requires me to download it to my computer...I'm going to pass on this.

[bcguy]

I dont think anything can even come close to the evil and horror of WWII where 60 million people from all countries both civilian and military died as a result of the war.

[annewandering]

I dont think anything can even come close to the evil and horror of WWII where 60 million people from all countries both civilian and military died as a result of the war.

I wish that were true. WARNING. DO NOT CONTINUE IF YOU HAVE A QUEASY STOMACH FOR HORROR.

Imagine being a tiny child, seeing their friend murdered by your father, being sewn into the body cavity of the dead friend, and buried in the ground. Then 'born' out of the dirt and being forced to drink the blood of your friend. Then being raped by members of the group including your father and uncle. This happened repeatedly to a friend of mine. Do not tell me war is worse.

[pam]

Anne what your friend went through is horrific. Worse than most people ever have had to go through. But in bcguy's defense...the sheer number of people who died and what so many people went through. The number of innocent people killed. Not much worse than war when you think of numbers.

Plus the horrific things that happened to innocent people during wars. Many probably went through things we would consider just as horrific as what your friend went through.

Edited August 9, 2012 by pam

[Dove]

I'm sorry, I don't intend this to be rude. But, isn't this kind of old news? I've heard of this stuff going on for over 20 years. I remember as a missionary my senior companion talking about stuff like this happening in the worst places. My brother and his friend found a house in Springville, UT, where there were dead animals all over the place that had been sacrificed/killed in one of these satanic/occult practices.

I was given a good book that addressed sexual and ritualistic abuse in our LDS culture. It was a credible book written by a therapist attempting to offer positive healing in abuse like this. It's been so many years ago when I was given it that I was trying to look up the title to quote in my thread. I didn't find it; but, was so surprised to see all the different references to this on the web.

Yes, I strongly believe that this is a real and heinous evil practised by many people we don't even suspect. Of utmost importance is to offer love and kindness to the victims in this horrible abuse.

[Dove]

PS;

As far as bcguy's comments that WWII was much worse....I don't think this should be about comparing as to which murder, or number of murders, are worse than the other. What's sad is that this type of abuse is being found in our culture. Perhaps right in our own back yards~

Please, let's not digress by saying something is worse than this. Whether or not that's true is not the point. The point is that ritual abuse is happening in our society today. Up close and personal, right now. It is heinous to the victims that have lived it. We should do all we can to expose it and fight against it. Not argue that something in history is worse.

Dove

[NeuroTypical]

From what I can tell, there are two things going on here. First, there are some tremenduously evil people in the world who can commit acts of unspeakable horror. Second, the human brain sometimes responds to traumatic events by just inventing memories. For example, you can google up people who claim to have been abducted in Salt Lake and taken into the catacombs under the temple, where they were ritually molested by their father, their bishop, and Gordon B. Hinckley, who are actually shape-shifting lizard people.

I never discount tales of horror that are pushing against the borders of believability. But neither do I discount the phenomenon of false recovered memories. In cases where I have insufficient facts to tell one way or the other, I am forced to abstain from judgement in the matter.

[HiJolly]

We ran into this in California in the early 90's. The Relief Society president was having some emotional issues, so she went to the bishop. He referred her to a brother in the ward who was out of work but had a divinity degree, with a counseling certificate in CA.

So through therapy she 'remembered' her parents doing horrible Satanic things to her sexually and all. But none of it happened. "The panic was influenced to a large extent by testimony of children and adults that was obtained using therapeutic and interrogation techniques now considered discredited." from Satanic ritual abuse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It was a mess, but we were very relieved to find it was due to the kind of counseling she had been through, and not her 'real' past.

HiJolly

[annewandering]

The really wonderful thing about false recovered memories is that we can apply it to all cases, including people who have not gone to any therapists. This way we can ignore those who have had real experiences. Useful to those of us who dont want to believe things like that can happen, which has to include all of us doesnt it. It is not so useful to those whose experiences are marginalized.

There is at least one organization that actually attacks the idea that anyone has ever had these experiences and they are very proactive.

One thing I know for sure. People who have endured it almost always hide it. They dont want to remember and they dont want to be treated as delusional.

[HiJolly]

The really wonderful thing about false recovered memories is that we can apply it to all cases, including people who have not gone to any therapists.

There is absolutely nothing "wonderful" about false recovered memories. Period. You should be ashamed for saying such a horrible thing.

HiJolly

[Guest]

There is absolutely nothing "wonderful" about false recovered memories. Period. You should be ashamed for saying such a horrible thing.

HiJolly

I think what we have here is a sarchasm.

[Bini]

I don't like playing sides on Who Got It Worse. Whenever the innocent is violated or has their life taken from them, it is truly a tragedy. Yes, there are more gruesome methods of torture (perhaps leading to inevitable death) than being shot point-blank or gunned down by the masses - but a life is a life.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Bini
Typos

[carlimac]

Anyone read or listened to the book "Unbroken" about an American living through Japanese POW/torture camps during WWII? HORRIBLE!! I just cannot fathom the deranged mind that could take so much pleasure in torturing human beings like that.

[annewandering]

I think what we have here is a sarchasm.

I think you are absolutely right. :) ty.

[Blackmarch]

I can imagine, and i can probably imagine much worse.

[annewandering]

I can imagine, and i can probably imagine much worse.

Sad isnt it. Sometimes I think imagination is not such a good thing.