Guns in Theaters are a Good Idea?

[annewandering]

Man accidentally shoots self in buttocks when gun falls out of pocket at Nevada movie theatre - Yahoo! News

Glad he shot himself instead of an innocent bystander.

[Guest]

That guy doesn't deserve to be holding a gun. Anywhere.

[Dravin]

I'm curious what gun he had because modern firearms are designed not to go off when you drop them, in fact it's safer to let such guns drop rather than try to catch them as doing so might result in you pulling the trigger on accident. I suppose if he had a surplus Tokarev or something it could happen, but depending on what his concealed carry choice is I'd find a simple drop and bang to be an unlikely story.

[Bini]

I want to say "Wow" but I think I wow too much. I'll need to read this when I'm off my mobile device. Scary thing is, I've heard about these "shooting accidents" where the gun owner shoots himself, and he's supposedly trained in handling firearms! You know, like a police officer, or someone that teaches gun safety, and or trains people in shooting.. Yikes.

[annewandering]

I'm curious what gun he had because modern firearms are designed not to go off when you drop them, in fact it's safer to let such guns drop rather than try to catch them as doing so might result in you pulling the trigger on accident. I suppose if he had a surplus Tokarev or something it could happen, but depending on what his concealed carry choice is I'd find a simple drop and bang to be an unlikely story.

Are you saying it didnt happen? Or what?

[applepansy]

Guns carried by law abiding citizens are a good idea. The majority are responsible.

In Colorado if there has been someone there with a concealed weapon the gunman (unlawful individual) might not have been able to kill and hurt as many people as he did.

I hate guns. I do not have a permit. But I recognize that if we lose our right to keep and bear arms we will soon lose all the rest of our rights. Only an armed populace stays free. Crimes are committed by people who don't have a concealed weapons permit, not by responsible citizens carrying guns.

[Dravin]

Are you saying it didnt happen? Or what?

What part of my post are you confused about?

• Modern pistols aren't supposed to go bang simply because you drop them, and it's actually safer to just let them drop than to try to fumble with it in midair.
• However some pistols such as old surplus WW2 designs can go bang when you drop them.
• If the guy was carrying a modern pistol that is designed not to go bang when it's dropped it's unlikely that, 'It fell out of my pocket, fell straight to the floor, and went off.' is what happened.

Edited August 15, 2012 by Dravin

[NeuroTypical]

We're using news stories as evidence that carrying is good or bad? Oh goody!

Concealed carry permit holder prevents robbery

Just after 10 p.m. a 36-year-old man was confronted by a robber with a shotgun in the parking lot of the Walgreens located in the 3600 block of College. The man said the robber held the shotgun to his head and demanded money.

The man, a concealed handgun license holder, was able to get his handgun and fired one shot at the would-be robber. The robber dropped his shotgun and took off running fleeing south behind the store. The intended victim was not injured during this confrontation and he did not lose any property.

71-year-old Robbery victim defends himself with permitted concealed gun In this one, the victim didn't take any action until the robber turned back around and pointed a gun at him and the three elderly women he was with.

Armed citizen stops multiple victim public shooting in its tracksThis guy stopped an active shooter who had already killed three people, and was about to kill a responding police officer.

65-year-old woman thwarts robbery on jewellery store after opening fire on five armed men

These are just some of the stories less than a month old. I'm grateful for the mature, sensible folks out there carrying, who stop robberies, muggings, and killings, thousands of times a year. It's a pity that immature unpracticed idiots like the guy from anne's link grab more attention.

Edited August 15, 2012 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[annewandering]

Guns do go off when dropped. My gosh I had a .22 pistol go off in my hand and I was just holding it. Scared the heck out of me since my brothers were around. I do agree we probably dont know the entire story. Maybe he was fondling it.

Is that what we are doing, LoudmouthMormon? You read my mind better than I do!!

[Dravin]

Guns do go off when dropped.

Well, I never claimed they can't. I said modern pistols don't, and I probably should have stipulated quality as well. If you tell me you dropped your Glock 19 and it fired I'm going to be skeptical that you didn't leave out some information such as trying to catch it in midair. If it's your Tokarev or some seriously cheap, but nonetheless of recent design, pistol then I won't ping my 'missing details'-dar.

My gosh I had a .22 pistol go off in my hand and I was just holding it.

Considering the possibility for someone holding a weapon to absently finger the trigger or otherwise apply pressure to a gun that's not entirely surprising if it was a cheap piece of crap (or poorly designed), particularly if they were going to fire it shortly (and thus had the safety off). Heck, the Japanese Nambu pistol supposedly was prone to discharging if you squeezed the sides of the weapon. Though If you're telling me that something like a Ruger Mark III just went off while sitting in your hand I'd have a hard time believing you.

Edited August 15, 2012 by Dravin

[NeuroTypical]

We're using news stories as evidence that carrying is good or bad?

Is that what we are doing, LoudmouthMormon? You read my mind better than I do!!

Well, you started a thread called "Guns in Theaters are a Good Idea?", and your opening post consisted of a news story and a sarcastic jab*, so that was my guess. If I was wrong, it wouldn't be the first time.

So since I'm off base, could you go ahead and clarify why you started the thread?

I have been carrying when I take my kids to a theater for many years. Nobody has ever written a news story about me, nor has anyone had reason to.

LM

(*At least I assume you're not actually glad that he shot himself)

[annewandering]

lol I think he deserved it if he was stupid enough to have a gun in a theater. I have posted here and in other places that I think guns in theaters, even in towns or in crowds, is a stupid idea. I am not attacking guns, per se. Just the lack of common sense on where they are appropriate.

LM, I am sure I can find, at least, an equal number of places guns caused problems instead of aid but please dont ask me to do that. I am trying to get some housework done!! :)

[NeuroTypical]

lol I think he deserved it if he was stupid enough to have a gun in a theater.

Wow. Ok, well, that's a clear position I guess. I mean, I hold CC people to the highest standard possible - I don't believe there are many accidents, only negligence. But even I can't bring myself to actually laugh and applaud when someone gets shot. I'll leave taking pleasure in other's pain to you.

I think guns in theaters, even in towns or in crowds, is a stupid idea. I am not attacking guns, per se. Just the lack of common sense on where they are appropriate.

Disagree. The safest place for a firearm to be, other than locked in a safe somewhere, is safely strapped to a responsible person. Much safer than leaving it in your car to get stolen.

LM, I am sure I can find, at least, an equal number of places guns caused problems instead of aid but please dont ask me to do that. I am trying to get some housework done!! :)

Don't worry anne. You are in very good company with that response. In fact, it's about the only response anyone ever gets when the conversation turns to such matters.

[MarginOfError]

Guns carried by law abiding citizens are a good idea. The majority are responsible.

In Colorado if there has been someone there with a concealed weapon the gunman (unlawful individual) might not have been able to kill and hurt as many people as he did.

I'll repost what I said on this topic earlier.

My dad had a sheriff's deputy come do a security evaluation at his work place a while ago. The deputy showed up out of uniform, walked through the front door and placed little green stickers everywhere he was able to go. He managed to obtain a visitor's pass from an unoccupied desk, passwords to computers that were written on papers left in drawers, and walked into almost every room in the building without being stopped.

When my dad reviewed the results with some other employees, he brought up the scenario of a shooter coming in and opening fire. A couple of gun enthusiasts said that in such a scenario, they would be quick to go out and get their guns out of their vehicles and come back in to hunt down the shooter.

The problems with this scenario:

1. The company employs several hundred people that don't know who each other are. So now you have several people with guns going into a building to shoot the guy with the gun. See where this is going?

2. In the event of a shooter, the police are called. The police enter the building with their weapons drawn ready to shoot the guy with the gun if there is any threatening motion (like a quick turn toward the officer while holding a gun).

They had to stress really hard that going out to get your weapon put multiple people at risk of being injured and made it significantly more difficult for the police to manage the crisis when they showed up.

In a theater situation, like in Aurora, I think the scenarios are even more terrifying. A guy walks into a dark theater and opens fire. In all the commotion of people getting up and running for cover, five people with concealed weapons draw and start looking for the guy with his weapon drawn. Now you've got people shooting through a crowd at the "guy with the gun." That doesn't make me feel any safer at all.

http://www.lds.net/forums/advice-board/48029-what-our-rights-when-being-searched-4.html#post690210

[annewandering]

Wow. Ok, well, that's a clear position I guess. I mean, I hold CC people to the highest standard possible - I don't believe there are many accidents, only negligence. But even I can't bring myself to actually laugh and applaud when someone gets shot. I'll leave taking pleasure in other's pain to you.

Disagree. The safest place for a firearm to be, other than locked in a safe somewhere, is safely strapped to a responsible person. Much safer than leaving it in your car to get stolen.

Don't worry anne. You are in very good company with that response. In fact, it's about the only response anyone ever gets when the conversation turns to such matters.

oh lm, i really dont have time for that. but if you insist i will.

i never applauded or laughed at him. i laughed at your response. he deserved it but no i am not going to laugh at him. i am glad he was the only one hurt and if anyone was hurt i am glad it ws him.

[Bini]

This is a bit off topic but how come in general, conservative parties lean towards pro-gun ownership, and liberal parties lean towards anti-gun ownership? Seems a bit backwards, maybe? I don't delve much into political issues of any sort but overall I consider myself liberal because of my stance on certain topics. It would make sense to me that liberals would fight for the "freedom" to bare arms and carry, but according to some other forums I frequent, it's the conservatives that favour pro-gun ownership and the liberals that don't. Obviously, this is my experience on a small scale but I found it interesting nonetheless. I support the right to bare arms but there's a lot of irresponsible people that take up that right.

[annewandering]

Thailand Senator, Boonsong Kowawisarat, Shoots His Ex-Wife With Uzi 9MM (PHOTOS) | Global Grind

Todd Canady Shoots Himself In Leg While Buying Milk At Walmart; Four Others Injured (VIDEO)

Chandler police: Man stable after accidentally shooting self - News from The Arizona Republic

Man, nephew charged in 'accidental' shooting | shooting, accidental, charged - Brownsville Herald

1 dead, 1 injured in accidental home shooting | khou.com Houston

2 killed in shooting at Toronto outdoor party

http://www.news-leader.com/article/20120731/NEWS01/307310033/Bolivar-accident-one-dead-one-injured?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE%7Cs

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2012/aug/13/21-year-old-custody-fatal-errant-shooting/

http://www.clarionledger.com/article/20120813/NEWS/120813003/1-year-old-girl-shot-head-dies-west-Jackson-shooting?odyssey=nav%7Chead

I didnt do any kids getting into guns or policemen shooting innocent people. Did not read these because to be honest the whole thing sickens me.

[Blackmarch]

While i do believe that abiding, trained citizens that can legally carry has merit... In general for the US, having more carrying citizens is not the right direction at this time.

[ClickyClack]

I'm curious what gun he had because modern firearms are designed not to go off when you drop them, in fact it's safer to let such guns drop rather than try to catch them as doing so might result in you pulling the trigger on accident. I suppose if he had a surplus Tokarev or something it could happen, but depending on what his concealed carry choice is I'd find a simple drop and bang to be an unlikely story.

You probably already know this, but for those not in the know, in the vast majority of times, "It fell out and went off" is a cover for either:

"It fell and I tried to catch it, and pulled the trigger" or "I was playing with it and pulled the trigger".

This is a bit off topic but how come in general, conservative parties lean towards pro-gun ownership, and liberal parties lean towards anti-gun ownership? Seems a bit backwards, maybe?

Conservatives lean more toward personal responsibility. Liberals tend more toward legislating things instead of taking personal responsibility.

Edited August 16, 2012 by ClickyClack

[bcguy]

But not in canada. All hand guns are illegal to own except a very very few "handfull" outside of law enforcement. This is perhaps why Vancouver has one of the lowest homicide rates for a city of its size in north America.

If there is ever a armed robbery, its with a knife.

[skalenfehl]

While i do believe that abiding, trained citizens that can legally carry has merit... In general for the US, having more carrying citizens is not the right direction at this time.

Agree to disagree.

[Guest]

From LM's scenario:

In a theater situation, like in Aurora, I think the scenarios are even more terrifying. A guy walks into a dark theater and opens fire. In all the commotion of people getting up and running for cover, five people with concealed weapons draw and start looking for the guy with his weapon drawn. Now you've got people shooting through a crowd at the "guy with the gun." That doesn't make me feel any safer at all.

You're reading into the situation your own understanding of the behavior of people that conceal carry. These people can recognize crazy mass-shooters from other conceal carryers. They don't just shoot at somebody just because they are carrying a gun.

[Soulsearcher]

But not in canada. All hand guns are illegal to own except a very very few "handfull" outside of law enforcement. This is perhaps why Vancouver has one of the lowest homicide rates for a city of its size in north America.

If there is ever a armed robbery, its with a knife.

UMMMM not quite true. you can get a hand gun permit pretty easy. You have to be a member of a range or organization that has permits for hand gun usage and have the proper permits and license yourself. I know probably at least 100 guys in alberta and probably 50 in BC personally who have a wide variety of handguns and those are just the shooting clubs I've been a member of. Heck here in Edmonton they sell hand guns at the mall. That being said the laws on storage of all fire arms is very strict and by the book up here. Always locked up or with a trigger lock and ammunition stored separate.

[jerome1232]

If there is ever a armed robbery, its with a knife.

I heard criminals purchase their weapons legally.

[annewandering]

Conservatives lean more toward personal responsibility. Liberals tend more toward legislating things instead of taking personal responsibility.

oh baloney.