Return to Islam ???

[Hala401]

Something has been troubling me for weeks, and the way seems unclear to me, so it seems that the Bishop is my only avenue of consultation. It's frightening because the likely hood of my being disfellowshiped seems high.

To be clear, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has been absolutely life saving to me, and Heavenly Father has my devout obedience in every area that I understand.

YET, since my conversion to the church I miss some things and the pain of loss does not lessen. There were aspects of Islam that seemed to reach clear into my innermost parts in a way that I have never been touched before or since.

The practice of Hijab gave me great security because I was constantly reminded of my devotion to Allah SWT (Heavenly Father). After all, even in the middle of a supermarket, you can not forget Heavenly Father when your whole body except your face and hands are covered. And, for me it provided security because the load of my past sin so bore me down.

Right before encountering Sister Missionaries, the shame of the past was driving me to the final solution and in my absolute despair, I knew it.

The praying 5 times a day meant so much to me also. Though I must admit that I frequently failed to meet that goal, still, it set before me a path of increasing obedience.

The mindset of obedience is still before me as a member of the church, and unlike many, I do not have the distraction of 6 toddlers, or a husband, or demanding Sisters to distract me from that.

So, in the presence of such loving sisters and brothers in my church, why would I still miss certain aspects of my old faith? I do not know. This week, I decided that returning to some of the modesty of my old faith might help, yet I know that some will misinterpret that change as a weakness of faith. There will be no head scarf, but the long skirts and long sleeves I must use.

Certain of you correctly discerned the exact nature of what was at one time deep, inexplicable sin in my life, and the past is ready to wound when least expected. All the repentance, and remorse in the world can not erase the past, and certain people seem bent on blocking the use of the Atonement and the dependence on the forgiveness that Heavenly Father has extended to me through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

Thankfully, those assaults on my sincerity have been few, but they were enough to make me feel hounded, and not safe any more. I am praying that Heavenly Father make his will clearly known to me for the future.

[Vort]

If you feel more comfortable in a hijab, I do not see that wearing it would be a big deal. Only my opinion.

As for praying five times a day, you are welcome and even encouraged to pray twenty-five times a day. Such is not a formalized "pillar of Mormonism", as it is in Islam. But you are not limited in your daily prayers and can pray for strength and comfort any time you feel the need. You can even make it a formal practice, if you wish.

[Hala401]

If you feel more comfortable in a hijab, I do not see that wearing it would be a big deal. Only my opinion.

As for praying five times a day, you are welcome and even encouraged to pray twenty-five times a day. Such is not a formalized "pillar of Mormonism", as it is in Islam. But you are not limited in your daily prayers and can pray for strength and comfort any time you feel the need. You can even make it a formal practice, if you wish.

Alhumduallah (Thanks to Heavenly Father), your reply touches my heart. Thank you. So you think I could observe Mormon customs and Muslim customs also? This is a great comfort to me.

[SanctitasDeo]

Many prophets and many missionaries have quoted the idea that Mormonism and the Restored Gospel are on the earth to add to the truth that men already have. If you enjoy or prefer some Muslim customs; if they bring you closer to God in some way, then I see nothing wrong with observing them.

The doctrine of the church, along with its saving ordinances, such as the sacrament, are one thing. The customs and culture are another entirely. If a Russian member had asked my opinion while I served there whether it was okay to keep icons about the house, I would have said: Yes, as long as you understand what they are and how they function in the grand scheme of things.

Praying five times a day could be admirable. Perhaps I will join you.

[NeuroTypical]

Hi Hala - glad you came back!

Other faiths hold many aspects that can be incredibly beautiful, meaningful, touching. I honestly love Black Baptist Choirs more than the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. There's a song in a Veggie Tales movie (our God is a God of second chances) that does it for me more than Handel's Hallelulia, or 85% of what I sing at church on Sunday.

I don't see anything wrong with praying 5 times a day. I don't know enough about Islamic modesty to comment one way or the other.

[applepansy]

Hala, I see no problems with dressing in any way you see fit. Longer sleeves, longer hems, hijab... I don't understand why it upsets you to need to dress more modestly. Just do it.

As for praying, we are commanded to pray continually. We are not limited to 5 times a day. Pray whenever you feel like it.

I don't see anything you've posted about that would get you disfellowshipped. Talk to you Bishop let him help guide you.

[Hala401]

Many prophets and many missionaries have quoted the idea that Mormonism and the Restored Gospel are on the earth to add to the truth that men already have. If you enjoy or prefer some Muslim customs; if they bring you closer to God in some way, then I see nothing wrong with observing them.

The doctrine of the church, along with its saving ordinances, such as the sacrament, are one thing. The customs and culture are another entirely. If a Russian member had asked my opinion while I served there whether it was okay to keep icons about the house, I would have said: Yes, as long as you understand what they are and how they function in the grand scheme of things.

Praying five times a day could be admirable. Perhaps I will join you.

I could not ignore the way that Holy Spirit sheltered and comforted me while I was yet Muslim. Then one day, I realized that if I prayed upon getting up, at each meal, and at bed time, that was 5 times a day. :)

Another pleasant realization is that most of the time, I do not hear Mormons use the word God. They use mostly Heavenly Father. This usage "feels" more comfortable to me, because any good Muslim will use "SWT" after Allah (God in Arabic). SWT means "Glorified and Exalted is he."

So, in some ways, I can see a linkage between Islam and Mormonisim in the devout reference to him. :)

[Wingnut]

Hi Hala - glad you came back!

Other faiths hold many aspects that can be incredibly beautiful, meaningful, touching. I honestly love Black Baptist Choirs more than the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. There's a song in a Veggie Tales movie (our God is a God of second chances) that does it for me more than Handel's Hallelulia, or 85% of what I sing at church on Sunday.

I don't see anything wrong with praying 5 times a day. I don't know enough about Islamic modesty to comment one way or the other.

I'm totally watching Veggie Tales with my daughter this morning. We've got Lord of the Beans on. :)

[Hala401]

Hi Hala - glad you came back!

Other faiths hold many aspects that can be incredibly beautiful, meaningful, touching. I honestly love Black Baptist Choirs more than the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. There's a song in a Veggie Tales movie (our God is a God of second chances) that does it for me more than Handel's Hallelulia, or 85% of what I sing at church on Sunday.

I don't see anything wrong with praying 5 times a day. I don't know enough about Islamic modesty to comment one way or the other.

Not many people realize that LadySmith Black Mambazo with Paul Simon sings Christian songs. :)

[NeuroTypical]

So did Johnny Cash. He even released an album of gospel songs.

When I baptized my last kid, I came very close to sneaking in Johnny's "Ain't no Grave" into the interlude music. Every time I think about it, I wish I had.

[Hala401]

Many prophets and many missionaries have quoted the idea that Mormonism and the Restored Gospel are on the earth to add to the truth that men already have. If you enjoy or prefer some Muslim customs; if they bring you closer to God in some way, then I see nothing wrong with observing them.

The doctrine of the church, along with its saving ordinances, such as the sacrament, are one thing. The customs and culture are another entirely. If a Russian member had asked my opinion while I served there whether it was okay to keep icons about the house, I would have said: Yes, as long as you understand what they are and how they function in the grand scheme of things.

Praying five times a day could be admirable. Perhaps I will join you.

At my conference to be Baptized, I told the President that I felt that Jesus Christ's church, by our own Mormon doctrine, did not last too long after the crucifiction. So, I felt that the start of Islam was another effort by Heavenly Father to bring truth. Sadly, that was less successful than I would have liked. Though it did go a long way toward civilizing people on the Arabian penensula.

Finally, Heavenly Father tried with us again with Joseph Smith. So, to me it is all a progression. I think that Heavenly Father is further continuing to help us by keeping a live prophet in the church.

[Hala401]

So did Johnny Cash. He even released an album of gospel songs.

When I baptized my last kid, I came very close to sneaking in Johnny's "Ain't no Grave" into the interlude music. Every time I think about it, I wish I had.

Sadly, Sunni Muslims are not known for their musical works; stringed instruments being seen as tools of the Shaitun. The horn is not favored and I do not know why. Drums are OK, however. I used to love Drumming and Belly Dancing until I found out that Belly Dancing is a fertility ritual. At my age, um, NO.

There are some fine musicians who are Persian, (Shia Muslims), and the rationale behind that escapes me.

Any who have been to the BYU Museum in Provo, the Muslim Art display there is Persian (Shia), not main stream Sunni Art, I think.

[prisonchaplain]

Alhumduallah (Thanks to Heavenly Father), your reply touches my heart. Thank you. So you think I could observe Mormon customs and Muslim customs also? This is a great comfort to me.

An answer that transcends all of Christianity is Paul's admonition that whether we eat or drink, or abstain, we should do it for the glory of God. So, if you choose to dress modestly, for God's glory, then it is counted to you as righteousness. I'd even suggest you could choose the month of Ramadan as a time for special fasting, so long as it is for God's glory.

On the other hand, do you have peace in your heart that doing these things pleases God, or are they an inner pulling, that would indeed lead you to return to Islam? If so, and you are certain that your conversion was God's will, then these very acts that for most would be righteous devotion, may be spiritual stumbling blocks for you. You will have to seek God to discern this, of course. I'm not even sure a spiritual counselor would be helpful for you in this. It may have to just be you and God.

[Guest]

I'll add that the Atonement is between you and the One who paid it. No one else.

[annewandering]

I love southern and country gospel music. Elvis made the most wonderful gospel album.

What is wrong with wearing what you feel comfortable in so long as it is modest. Of course you do need to know that the clothing you prefer is not required by others. Some of the most beautiful dresses are the ones the Hindu women wear. So feminine and graceful. Cultural is not the same as religious so wear what you like from other cultures.

In the church women wear different types of clothing all over the world. check google images for lds women in various countries.

Do not google lds clothes images. It is very distressing to see the antimormon garbage.

Edited September 2, 2012 by annewandering

[Hala401]

I love southern and country gospel music. Elvis made the most wonderful gospel album.

What is wrong with wearing what you feel comfortable in so long as it is modest. Of course you do need to know that the clothing you prefer is not required by others. Some of the most beautiful dresses are the ones the Hindu women wear. So feminine and graceful. Cultural is not the same as religious so wear what you like from other cultures.

In the church women wear different types of clothing all over the world. check google images for lds women in various countries.

Do not google lds clothes images. It is very distressing to see the antimormon garbage.

I had three question marks at the end of my title. And, the issue with Jesus Christ is one that troubled me the entire time I was Muslim. I had such bad taste in my mouth from previous experience with Christians that I doubted that Jesus Christ would have anything to do with them.

I can not fully express how much the church impressed me in that respect.

Now that my hissy fit is over, I will return to the modest dress that helped me feel secure.

Interestingly, I felt guilty at Ramadan this year, in spite of the fact that my Doctor does not want me fasting. I wished many Muslims I know, EID Mubarak> It is all I could do. Oh, make no mistake, I am Mormon, and I am thankful that I am not forced to wear clothes that make me feel over exposed.

[annewandering]

I can see how it could be very frustrating. Still we have to remember what Jesus did and taught not how His teachings have been corrupted and misused and ignored by people who claim to follow Him. Even in the church. None of us is perfect yet. :)

[SisterSarah]

Something has been troubling me for weeks, and the way seems unclear to me, so it seems that the Bishop is my only avenue of consultation. It's frightening because the likely hood of my being disfellowshiped seems high.

To be clear, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has been absolutely life saving to me, and Heavenly Father has my devout obedience in every area that I understand.

YET, since my conversion to the church I miss some things and the pain of loss does not lessen. There were aspects of Islam that seemed to reach clear into my innermost parts in a way that I have never been touched before or since.

The practice of Hijab gave me great security because I was constantly reminded of my devotion to Allah SWT (Heavenly Father). After all, even in the middle of a supermarket, you can not forget Heavenly Father when your whole body except your face and hands are covered. And, for me it provided security because the load of my past sin so bore me down.

Right before encountering Sister Missionaries, the shame of the past was driving me to the final solution and in my absolute despair, I knew it.

The praying 5 times a day meant so much to me also. Though I must admit that I frequently failed to meet that goal, still, it set before me a path of increasing obedience.

The mindset of obedience is still before me as a member of the church, and unlike many, I do not have the distraction of 6 toddlers, or a husband, or demanding Sisters to distract me from that.

So, in the presence of such loving sisters and brothers in my church, why would I still miss certain aspects of my old faith? I do not know. This week, I decided that returning to some of the modesty of my old faith might help, yet I know that some will misinterpret that change as a weakness of faith. There will be no head scarf, but the long skirts and long sleeves I must use.

Certain of you correctly discerned the exact nature of what was at one time deep, inexplicable sin in my life, and the past is ready to wound when least expected. All the repentance, and remorse in the world can not erase the past, and certain people seem bent on blocking the use of the Atonement and the dependence on the forgiveness that Heavenly Father has extended to me through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

Thankfully, those assaults on my sincerity have been few, but they were enough to make me feel hounded, and not safe any more. I am praying that Heavenly Father make his will clearly known to me for the future.

Hala401,

This response is not doctrinal per se, it is just women to woman, and sister to sister.

Being a Mormon does not mean you need to miss anything.

Being a Mormon is not about guilt or tormenting yourself with guilt.

In fact the sheer beauty of it is we are a work in progress. We learn about Heavenly Father's love for us and the saviors love and forgiveness for us, so about his wrath. We learn to love Heavenly Father and we develop a sense of awe that he would have his son suffer on behalf of our transgressions long before we even transgressed.

We learn to do Heavenly Fathers will through service to others so that we and those we serve can come to know the love of Heavenly Father and know the fullness of joy.

If you happen to be comfortable wearing a Hajib, then wear it. If five times a day is when you choose to pray, do so. But Heavenly Father is not going to love you more or forgive you more or less based on these things.

I feel as loved by Heavenly Father when I am laying in the sun on the beach wearing a swimsuit and pondering the beauty of creation, as I feel sitting in the Temple wearing whites, or praying in church in a simple skirt and blouse. And as for garments, I don't wear them because I feel they will protect me, or that I am covering a shameful body, rather I wear them as a reminder of a covenant and promise I mad with Heavenly Father.

Sometimes on a busy day I say a prayer in the morning or one before meals, or if I am just busy or preoccupied I supposed there are days I forget to pray alltogether, but I do my best for that not to be very often. Many days I pray more than five times a day and especially in church most of us pray considerable more than three times in the course of the day at church.

My family is very interfaith and multi cultural. I am perfectly fine with attending a catholic mass. My grand daughter just made her first holy communion and I was there in her church to celebrate with her. I have also attended several Seders on Passover and prayed along side dear Jewish friends. But the fact that I am a Mormon remains. My love for Heavenly Father, and even more important, my conviction that Heavenly Father loves me, is what it is all about.

I don't have all the answers. My goal is to build a very strong testimony, and be the best i can be. I fall short of that all the time. That is why we have the savior to pick us back up and the Holy Spirit to comfort us.

I personally don't wear a Hajib and never have not because I see anything wrong with it, but because it is not a part of my cultural experience. If it makes you comfortable, then wear it. But Heavenly Father is a lot more concerned with the person under the clothing you are wearing.

And although I believe that repentance is very important we should not be beating ourselves up with guilt. Doing that would not be trusting in forgiveness and the sacrifice of his son on our behalf. I think when we pray, no matter how many times a day, we should remember to thank Heavenly Father for his unwavering love. He will know you heart no matter what you are covering your body with. He knew you and loved you long before you were born and didn't yet have clothing at all.

Talk to your Bishop, your Home and Visiting Teacher. In your prayers, see out Heavenly Fathers guidance and then guidance, watch for personal revelation, and you will not miss a thing, rather find more and more joy in the blessings that Heavenly Father wants for you.

Sarah

[skoshmom]

Dear Hala,

I'm fairly new here and don't respond to all threads, but wanted to say I've enjoyed reading your threads and have missed you. I'm so glad you have found the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Days Saints and know of Christ's atonement personally for you.

Many times, I get so down on myself and refuse to forgive myself for the things I've done in my life that I've come to regret and have to live with daily. However, I know that if I have faith in Jesus Christ, that I will not just believe in Him, but that I believe in what He says He will do - which is to have mercy on me - a person so unworthy and undeserving of Him. That is the wonder of His atoning sacrifice! The challenge was given to me of - you say you believe in Christ, but do you believe in what he says He will do - FOR YOU. I realize that it is harder for us to forgive ourselves than for our Heavenly Father - thie miracle of forgiveness is real and totally amazes and humbles me. I write this with tears in my eyes and love and peace for you. It sounds to me that you have not yet been able to fully forgive yourself of things in your life - please forgive yourself, our Savior paid that price for you so that you don't have to bear this by yourself anymore. Again, if you believe in Christ, then believe what He says, and by the way, what he says applies for you as well as everybody. YOu don't have to be a bystander. This is the one thing I beat myself up with over and over again, because I still struggle with forgiving myself. Yet in my heart, I am truly sorry for not living the way I should have in the past show my sorrow for this by living my life in such a way now that my Heavenly Father knows that I am trying and by living my life in service to Him. I have a magnet on my refrigerator that says:

"Live your life in such a way that those who do not know Jesus Christ will want to know Jesus Christ because they know you." Now that's a tall order, but there are many humble people in my ward (my hometeacher and his wife come to my mind) that have inspired me to try to live my life as best as I could - - because we love the Savior and want to show him our gratitude.

The practice of Hijab gave me great security because I was constantly reminded of my devotion to Allah SWT (Heavenly Father). After all, even in the middle of a supermarket, you can not forget Heavenly Father when your whole body except your face and hands are covered. And, for me it provided security because the load of my past sin so bore me down.

I feel the same way you do, but do so by wearing my garments. It is "my little secret" if you will, something not outward, but underneath which shows by me wearing them my modesty and my constant and total devotion to my Heavenly Father. My covenants that I made in the temple are something I remember always by wearing my garments which allow me to dress fashionably but modestly in a way that I kow would be pleasing to our Lord.

The praying 5 times a day meant so much to me also. Though I must admit that I frequently failed to meet that goal, still, it set before me a path of increasing obedience.

What I love so much about our church is that we are able to exercise our freewill. We can pray to our Heavenly Father however many times we want - so there is no requirement of how many times a day we HAVE to pray ( please, I sincerely do not mean this in any derogatory way at all). I always pray to my Heavenldy Father each and every day, but there are times that I feel the need to pray more, maybe even more than 5 times a day. He is only a prayer away and He does hear our prayers - I know this, because He has answered my prayers more than I deserve.

There will be no head scarf, but the long skirts and long sleeves I must use.

Ain't freewill grand? If you are more comfortable in long sleeves and skirts, than that is your privilege.

Peace and love to you dear Hala.

[Hala401]

Your reply and the compassionate replies of others has helped me to order my thinking on the matter. Thinking more clearly now, it is easy to see that this cultural shift is challenging; more than originally anticipated.

I'll be 66 soon and the idea of running around in the same clothing that college women wear feels like too much (actually too little), and perhaps for good reason. Years ago, my nature drew me to wear way too little, by quite a margin, but now in Jesus Christ, it feels shaming.

As far as accepting the Atonement is concerned, it has been quite a challenge, but Holy Spirit finally convinced me. Lately, the challenge has been with those who would ignore the word of Heavenly Father and drag me down into the finery pit, according to their own wickedness.

Edited September 4, 2012 by Hala401

[MorningStar]

I would much rather you wear the modest clothing you feel comfortable in than what I see some women wear to church! As for praying, we are encouraged to "pray always" and always have a prayer in our heart.

[Hala401]

I would much rather you wear the modest clothing you feel comfortable in than what I see some women wear to church! As for praying, we are encouraged to "pray always" and always have a prayer in our heart.

I haven't wanted to say anything because I can be really judgmental and sanctimonious and have been corrected by Heavenly Father for it. I too think that what some women wear is way past the boundaries and feeling that way makes me really fearful, because I do not want Heavenly Father to visit hardship on me for my sin.