Don't bring your gun.. Too much to ask?

[confuzzled]

I'm going to add my 2 cents.

First off you need to understand that I've been around guns my entire life. I hunt. I am married to a LEO.

My husband carries all the time. I don't have my concealed weapons permit YET but I plan on it.

I believe that there are "sheep, sheepdogs, and wolves" in our world. Please read

http://www.gleamingedge.com/mirrors/onsheepwolvesandsheepdogs.

I for one am thankful for the "sheepdogs" in this world!

Just my 2 cents!

[Guest]

  confuzzled said:

sheep, sheepdogs, and wolves

[Vort]

  confuzzled said:

I am married to a LEO.

I'm married to a Virgo. Virgos and Capricorns get along pretty well.

[confuzzled]

Sorry. Habbit..L.E.O Law Enforcement Officer

[Vort]

I was just funnin' ya. I knew what LEO meant.

[tumbledquartz]

Gun Accidents Kill 500 Kids a Year | momlogic.com

Unless something major changes in my paradigm, I'll never have a gun in my home. It's not a contempt for life - just the opposite. I just have a different perspective than you do on whether owning a gun might be more harmful than helpful. If I was faced with a predator, I don't know that I'd be able to shoot anyway - he'd probably get it away from me and use it on me while I was shaking in my boots.

[MorningStar]

Mr. MorningStar has a concealed weapons permit but he doesn't yet have a concealed weapon. When I asked him why on earth he would spend that much money on a pretend gun, he said it's so he doesn't have to go through a waiting period when he does find a gun he wants to buy. Then he renewed it and he was lucky I didn't have a gun. I'm not anti-gun. I've been shooting, but I hate the thought of having one in our home or spending the money on one right now. In the ward I grew up in, a sister was shot accidentally by her husband. Then my friend's dad shot himself intentionally and I was there about 10 minutes after it happened. It was definitely in the top 5 most horrible things I have ever seen. When my dad became depressed, I hid his gun for months because of that.

Last time I held a gun, the thought I had the power to take a life felt horrible. We're still in negotiations over owning a gun.

[ClickyClack]

  Vort said:

I can. Guns are scary.

And that emotional scariness makes some people lose all logic and reason.

People happily let their children partake in activities that are FAR more dangerous than having a gun in the home, and never give it a second thought, because those activities just don't feel as scary as the idea of being shot.

Our brains are still wired to evaluate risk in a way that made sense for most of human history, but not for our modern society. A huge number of people literally give no thought whatsoever to the most dangerous activities that we partake in as a society, yet they go to huge lengths to try to prevent terribly tiny risks.

[mirkwood]

  Loudmouth_Mormon said:

Quote:UserName

Don't misunderstand me, I'm NOT cop bashing here just stating reported precidents.

I don't see how you can make that claim. "Think the police are there to protect you? Guess again. [...] They are there to draw the chalk outline around your dead body." That's not cop bashing? What would you consider cop bashing?

Yea, really no other way to interpret that statement.

Edited September 29, 2012 by mirkwood

[pam]

  Vort said:

I'm married to a Virgo. Virgos and Capricorns get along pretty well.

So does that mean should I ever choose to get back into the dating scene again, I need to filter tham by whether they are a Virgo or not?

[NeuroTypical]

  tumbledquartz said:

Gun Accidents Kill 500 Kids a Year | momlogic.com

  MorningStar said:

In the ward I grew up in, a sister was shot accidentally by her husband.

I would like to share a mindset that my family has developed, which has helped me reduce the amount of anxiety and fear in my and my family's minds regarding guns.

There is no such thing as a "gun accident" or an "accidental shooting". The words are false - they lie about what really happened. There are only negligent discharges and negligent shootings. Those 500 kids a year were not accidents, they were mostly a result of parents who were negligent in their duty to keep firearms away from innocent children. The yearly accidental shootings are not accidental - someone failed in their basic duty to not point a loaded weapon at someone and pull the trigger.

If you consider guns from a 'negligent vs. responsible steward' standpoint, then you can look at yourself and see what side of the line you currently fall on. Responsible gun ownership demands that one develop a list of habits - locking or otherwise securing your weapon, always treating it as loaded, proper finger/trigger placement, safe carrying, not to mention ability to use it effectively. And especially mindset that would allow you to use it effectively if necessary.

There's a world of difference between saying to yourself "I don't want one of those scary, dangerous guns in my house" and "I don't have the skills, habits, equipment, and mindset necessary to be a responsible gun owner." The first thing basically means that you are at the mercy of the gun - nothing you can do will ever make there not be scary dangerous guns. The second thing is a worldview you can act on. You can choose to develop those attributes.

[MorningStar]

Yes, it's amazing how many people are killed by "unloaded" guns. My husband is sure he would be responsible 100% of the time with a gun. It's just not something I even want to worry about right now.

[tumbledquartz]

  Loudmouth_Mormon said:

There's a world of difference between saying to yourself "I don't want one of those scary, dangerous guns in my house" and "I don't have the skills, habits, equipment, and mindset necessary to be a responsible gun owner." The first thing basically means that you are at the mercy of the gun - nothing you can do will ever make there not be scary dangerous guns. The second thing is a worldview you can act on. You can choose to develop those attributes.

Yeah, I can see that. The article talked about what steps people need to take to make sure those accidents / neglectful situations don't happen. I still fall on the no-guns-in-my-house side of the line, though, because I'm not an organized person with anything else in my life. I waste what feels like hours every day looking for things I had "just a minute ago." I'd like to think that I'd be different with a gun because it is so lethal, but these stories show me otherwise. I'm positive those people whose guns accidentally fell into the couch or whatever care about their kids' lives just as much as I do - they just weren't being vigilant at all times. I feel like my phone is in my couch more often than it's in my pocket sometimes, and I can totally see that happening to me.

And I agree that they weren't pure accidents - someone was being neglectful. In that way, car accidents aren't really accidents, either. If every person was always following the law and taking all of the precautions necessary in every situation, no car "accidents" would ever happen. But they do because plenty of people neglect to do something or other - or are doing something they shouldn't - all the time. I still think it's appropriate to call it an accident, though, because the kid who found the gun didn't /mean/ to shoot anyone.

[Vort]

  MorningStar said:

Yes, it's amazing how many people are killed by "unloaded" guns.

Amazing, but not surprising. Remember, Superman stood bravely while the bullets bounced harmlessly off his chest, but when the bad guys threw ther guns at him in frustration, Superman ducked.

[Dravin]

  MorningStar said:

Yes, it's amazing how many people are killed by "unloaded" guns. My husband is sure he would be responsible 100% of the time with a gun. It's just not something I even want to worry about right now.

And that's why I was raised to always treat a gun a loaded. I remember gun shopping and the guy behind the counter (it was quite a long counter) wanted to demonstrate the double action on a hidden hammer revolver. He picked it up, nonchalantly pointed it down the counter in the direction of his coworkers and started working the trigger. *Click* *Click* *Click* *Click* *Click* *Click*

It made my hair stand up on end, at the very least he could have pointed it at the ceiling or floor. *shiver*

[classylady]

I grew up around guns. We have guns in our house. DH just took a class for concealed. I have a healthy respect for guns. They don't frighten me. I sent most of my kids to gun safety classes when they were young teens.

I have taught my kids that you never, never point a gun at a person, even toy guns.

[Misshalfway]

  classylady said:

I grew up around guns. We have guns in our house. DH just took a class for concealed. I have a healthy respect for guns. They don't frighten me. I sent most of my kids to gun safety classes when they were young teens.

I have taught my kids that you never, never point a gun at a person, even toy guns.

I can't go that far. I mean...what is life without a really good marshmallow shooter?

[classylady]

Didn't say my teaching of never pointing a toy gun was 100 percent heeded. Maybe I should have taught, "if you're going to point a toy gun at a person, at least aim for the legs or arms."

[tumbledquartz]

  UserName said:

As for the "No duty to protect" issue, I cite the following cases:

Warren v. District of Columbia

DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services

Balistreri v. Pacifica Police Department

Several articles have been written about each case. Rather than influence you with my own sources I suggest you look into them yourself.

So, I've read up on this a little bit and given it some thought, and here's what I think. There are lots of places that say police don't have a /constitutional/ obligation to protect you. And you can't sue the police for failing to protect you. But that doesn't mean that the police don't ever protect people or feel a responsibility to protect people. I personally have a lot of respect for LEOs, and I don't think it's just a rare "old school cop" here and there who will try to protect someone if they can. But, no, there won't be a cop hovering nearby at every moment you need protection, even if you have a restraining order, and it would be a shame if people started suing them left and right any time they needed protection and it wasn't there.

[MorningStar]

  Dravin said:

And that's why I was raised to always treat a gun a loaded. I remember gun shopping and the guy behind the counter (it was quite a long counter) wanted to demonstrate the double action on a hidden hammer revolver. He picked it up, nonchalantly pointed it down the counter in the direction of his coworkers and started working the trigger. *Click* *Click* *Click* *Click* *Click* *Click*

It made my hair stand up on end, at the very least he could have pointed it at the ceiling or floor. *shiver*

Ugh! That would make me so mad! Years ago in a different ward, I went visiting teaching and as we visited with this sister, I was distracted by the gun sitting in the middle of the table that was pointed towards her and asked about it. She aimed it at me, rolled her eyes and said, "It's not loaded." I was furious. I told her, "There's no such thing as an unloaded gun." She didn't seem mentally stable and I had very little guilt over never going there again.

[tumbledquartz]

  classylady said:

Didn't say my teaching of never pointing a toy gun was 100 percent heeded. Maybe I should have taught, "if you're going to point a toy gun at a person, at least aim for the legs or arms."

There are people in my neighborhood who let their kids have "wars" out on the street with airsoft guns and bb guns. My son was hit on the cheek, barely below his eye, because these kids came after him. I scolded the kids and told them to NEVER point a gun at a person. Then I called one of their parents and was told that he thought it was just fine as long as they were wearing eye protection. I told him that my son wasn't wearing eye protection and that he had told the kids he didn't want to "play" and the dad's response was that, yeah, they probably shouldn't have done that, but he wasn't going to tell them that they couldn't play their little war game anymore. He'd just tell them not to shoot at anyone who wasn't wearing eye protection.

Marshmallow shooters, though, I'm okay with. But I tell my kids not to even point nurf guns at people.

[Dravin]

  MorningStar said:

Ugh! That would make me so mad!

I did decide I'd never buy a gun at that store. I suppose in hindsight it would have been better to complain to management but the discomfort was strong enough I just wanted to get out of there.

Edited September 30, 2012 by Dravin

[annewandering]

My problem with gun is that while I am comfortable with them and I know how to treat them safely, I do not trust very many other other people to be. There are too many nutcases out there and they ALL have guns. There is no way to tell who is capable of handling them safely and why should I trust them? I dont know them.

Most of you seem fairly intelligent and safety conscious but nope. I dont trust any of you with guns.

There is no way that is going to change. I see no valid reason to encourage others to own guns.

[NeuroTypical]

I'm trying to figure out just exactly how my life would be different if you did trust me with my gun...

[annewandering]

  Loudmouth_Mormon said:

I'm trying to figure out just exactly how my life would be different if you did trust me with my gun...

None. I am explaining why I would object to people having guns around me. If we knew each other and we had any interaction I would object to you having guns around me.