What Is The Relationship Between Modesty And Clothing?

[MorningStar]

I think modesty has to do with attitude, language, and clothing. What's modest at the beach is not modest at a restaurant or at church. If a girl is wearing a full piece bathing suit that covers everything when she could be wearing a bikini, I think people will get the impression that she is modest. :) I think our clothes are an advertisement of who we are.

[Iggy]

I think our clothes are an advertisement of who we are.

And what we think of ourselves and feel about ourselves.

[Canuck Mormon]

I think modesty has to do with attitude, language, and clothing. What's modest at the beach is not modest at a restaurant or at church. If a girl is wearing a full piece bathing suit that covers everything when she could be wearing a bikini, I think people will get the impression that she is modest. :) I think our clothes are an advertisement of who we are.

I'm sure if anyone caught it, but Miss. Utah in the "Miss America Pageant", was wearing a full swimsuit instead of a bikini like the rest of the women.

And before I get comments on "why is a guy watching Miss America"? My wife made me watch it, at least until Miss. Utah was knocked out.

[MorningStar]

Yes, I heard about that. Good for her!

[Aelswyth]

Modesty is relative. It depends on the cultural context. In modern America, you are modest if you keep your cleavage and your upper thighs covered. In Victorian times, you were IMMODEST if you revealed your ankles (even though a little cleavage was okay). In tribal societies that wear little clothing, it is possible to be perfectly modest by adhering to the standards of your tribe. Your buttocks and privates may be mostly exposed, but if you lose your little tied-on leaf, it's absolutely shameful and very, very embarrassing!

I'll always remember seeing the movie "The Emerald Forest" about a group of Amazonian Indians. They went about mostly naked but for their necklaces and little loin-cloths. There was nothing unclean or impure about their nakedness. Some of the women were captured by white men and put to work in a brothel. One could not help noting the contrast between their innocent nakedness earlier and the carnal, provocative clothing they were forced to wear in the brothel - short skirts, tight tops, high heels, lingerie, whorish makeup. It was very sobering. When they were rescued, the first thing the women did was tear off the hated, corrupt clothing and put back on their badges of pure and modest womanhood: their necklaces and their loin-cloths. It was really a very striking scene, and said more about the true meaning of modesty than anything else I can think of.

So, real modesty is not so much about how much we wear and what is covered, as much as it's about whether the covering and uncovering is provocative or deliberately enticing. It's about our inner attitude towards our bodies and our intent. If we were all truly "like little children", we would not care about nudity and would not have such impure minds as to think "SEX" at every inch of uncovered skin. Sometimes I really think it's the covering up of things that MAKES them enticing. It is the forbiddenness of nudity that drives the pornography market, the "dirtifying" of the human body. Primitive tribal people don't have porn. Give an Amazonian Indian a Victoria's Secret catalogue and he'll find it amusing enough for a few minutes, but then chuck it away and forget about it. Most of them find such things peculiar and think our society extremely weird for our sex-obsession. The human body is nothing new to them, they care about what's inside, not the flesh. Surely if we were all just naked the novelty would soon wear off, and we would be like the folks in the jungle, becoming attracted to one another for who we really are, not out of lustful curiosity about what our bodies might be like under our clothes. For example, in Western countries where breasts are routinely covered up, they are perceived as sex organs and are objects of lustful thoughts, to the point where some twisted individuals even think feeding a little child is indecent exposure! In some other parts of the world, it is much more relaxed. And in yet other parts, such as certain areas of Africa and South America, where women regularly go topless, the people laugh at our men and think them immature and unmanly because they are obsessed with women's breasts. To them, breasts are simply mammary glands, there is nothing sexual about them whatsoever. They find it hilarious that white men are "like babies".

Men are NOT hardwired to be sex-obsessed and driven to madness by the sight of a woman's uncovered skin. Such extreme reactions are the result of a culture that uses clothing to cover up certain parts of the body and entice and allure. This can be amply demonstrated by a broad overview of societies on both ends of the spectrum. Such a survey shows a dramatic correlation between the level of comfort with nudity and the healthy expression of the sex-drive at appropriate times, with no mental obsession in between. In societies like ours, where nudity is feared and disapproved (yet clothing is used to emphasize sexuality), men are constantly thinking about sex even when they're not directly engaged in it. That's the twisted result of our Puritan heritage and has nothing to do with men's hardwired nature, as suggested by some.

[Guest Lexish]

My friend has a 14 year old daughter that looks like she is 20 and is BUILT like she is 20. Far too much bovine growth hormone or something.

This is only sort of relevant, and I don't know how you really meant this comment, but I just have to say: Some girls mature physically faster than others. If she is "built" like she is 20 it will be harder to buy clothes that fit nicely and are modest and trendy. Most 14 year old girls don't look like that, but some do. It has little or nothing to do with growth hormones (generally speaking...)

Also:

As for, "Why can guys go without shirts and girls can't wear tanktops," it's a ludicrous question. Everyone knows that guys get turned on by things that usually don't turn on girls. Guys usually have stronger sex drives than girls. Blah, blah, blah. All the stereotypes are true. Deal with it people. Yes, some people might be excessively obsessed with how much clothing is okay. I'd rather err on the side of too conservative than on the side of too liberal.

Women control the morality of society. Think about that.

Women control the morality of society.

Men are born with a strong desire to "multiply" and have a more carnal outlook on the world than women. There are exceptions, fine. The point still stands.

Women aren't born with the desire to dress skimpy and immodestly, or appear in pornographic magazines or movies. That's a decision.

Men's sex drives are largely determined by hormones.

Women's clothing choices are largely determined by fad and fashion.

I recently learned that another reason men and women are affected differently is because Men have a much greater reaction to images. If we give a man a Victoria's Secret magazine he will likely be unable to think of anything else. Women have a greater reaction to the other senses, mainly touch. If we give a woman a magazine with men in their briefs they can move on fairly quickly and without a second thought.

Point being that us woman have a responsibility to mess not with those vulnerable male minds.

In as much as modesty is concerned, I think it is fair to say that clothes affect our mindset so they are an important consideration in the debate. But if we have the other aspects of modesty down then clothes are not a concern because the righteous choice in a given situation will come naturally.

[Moksha]

My guess is that there are relative degrees of modesty and the perception of what is considered modest changes over the years.

Early Mormon women could not

have this till modesty changed in

1900's. Today this would be laughed

at on the beach or poolside.

[WANDERER]

Very tasteful. Three quarter length skirts are also laughable...you know you will stand on the hem when going down stairs and likely break your neck and good luck with trying to fall modestly...I can sincerely say my knee caps wouldn't tempt anyone. Perhaps for that reason alone they should be covered.

[Iggy]

Very tasteful. Three quarter length skirts are also laughable...you know you will stand on the hem when going down stairs and likely break your neck and good luck with trying to fall modestly...I can sincerely say my knee caps wouldn't tempt anyone. Perhaps for that reason alone they should be covered.

Most of my dresses/skirts have the hems about an inch above the ankle or half way between the knee and ankle (three quarter length about), and I have yet to trip on them. I think you are thinking ankle length and that would be going UP stairs rather than downstairs.

When your hems are at ankle length and you go UP stairs, you should lift the skirt enough so it clears the step BEFORE you put your foot on the step. At least that is how I was taught. A lady does not cross the legs at the knees while wearing a dress, nor does she spread her legs apart while sitting in a dress or slacks.

I like the feel of the skirt hem touching the calves of my legs. The gently swishing of the skirt as I walk. Feels very feminine to me.

[Iggy]

The next time I see a guy looking at the tail end of a 11 year old because her sweat pants say "Hot" right across her butt or a junior high students chest because her shirt says "Baby Doll" across her boobs I am going to poke his friggen eyes out. Society is pushing the young and sweet, innocence is ok, as long as its covered in a piece of linen bull. My friend has a 14 year old daughter that looks like she is 20 and is BUILT like she is 20. Far too much bovine growth hormone or something. She is very beautiful but she likes to dress in societies idea of "modest" clothing because it covers the important parts. Its skin tight, uses design elements to bring the eye to inappropriate places and its purpose is to sell sex. He took her with him to work one day when school was out and when he hit the docks at one of the companies that he delivers to the guys at the docks ALL turned and stared, got all chin dropped and started drooling. He told them to tuck their tongues back in their mouths and let them know that she was only 14. Their response? " Jees... Doesn't hurt to look, I just can't touch". These are grown men. Now imagine what hormonally over driven boys are thinking. Most of the clothing that is popular now leaves nothing to the imagination and our kids are too young to be "sexy". Looking good and appropriate is important but sex is the last thing that we need to be worried about with our kids.

I agree with function in clothing for the arts and what not. I don't see a 5 year old in a tutu as a problem but things like ice skating body suits in flesh tones and elements to attract the eyes to places that your eyes should not be is still a problem. "Camel Toe" and "Whale Tail" are two things I don't want to hear in ANY conversation regarding my children. If you don't know the definition of either of those two terms then you are behind the curve and some guy is checking out your daughter. I can guarantee that your kids can explain them...

So. is modesty simply a clothing choice or is it an attitude that resonates through the entire lifestyle... I vote lifestyle, and clothing is the biggest part of it. No offense, I have seen current swimsuits. For the majority of us, they are fine. We are not the ones to worry about. I have seen some pretty decent suits. My girls were required to wear swim shorts over a one piece and that was appropriate but there is still not much to be left to the imagination. Why should that be a problem? Ask Satan why sex sells so well... and why the church says that pornography is an epidemic in our world. Modesty is far more proactive than simply putting a layer of material over some skin. I know its a sick way to have to look at the world but when the first thing that comes to mind when I think of the word modesty is a picture of modern media dress standard and the word "EASY" flashing across the screen.

Do we over sell the modesty thing? I don't think so. Its about protecting our kids, not limiting them. How can you resist sin if the element is almost forcing you to look at it. Some have the self control, most don't.

Why get all ticked off with the guys reaction, when it is the parents that allowed these sweet little things to dress that way???

It is the parents who are paying for the clothes and allowing the girls to leave the house looking like two-bit street walkers.

Back when I was a pre-teen and teenager, I was not allowed to leave the house with my long, long hair hanging down. It had to be done up in either a bun, French braid or braided and wrapped around my head. My father is the one who set that rule, and I did not disobey it. Dad was born in 1912 - he was 40years older than me, and in his era women who let their hair hang loose were prostitutes. His mother, wife, sister, aunts and grandmothers all wore their long, long hair up on their heads, or pulled into chignons.

I also was never allowed to wear any garment that exposed too much flesh. I was allowed to wear sleeveless blouses in the summer, but never tank tops. Back then tank tops would have been Daddy's undershirts and those were NEVER worn as outer clothes. My skirt hems had to be at least one inch below my knee. And my neck line had best be no more than a discreet and modest v-neck.

School mates that were not modestly dressed were never criticized by my Dad- their parents were though.

So Grant, get ticked off at the parents, gouge their eyes out. Unleash your wrath at them. Not just at the boys & men who are leering at them.If Daddy doesn't want the Dock workers leering and propositioning his little girl, then don't allow her to dress like a hooker! As one of my co-workers says: Shame on some people's parents.

[Queen_Celeste]

Well, I am no expert on Fashion, or Dance clothing, or the like but I do know what the church teaches on modesty.

“Because the way you dress sends messages about yourself to others and often influences the way you and others act, you should dress in such a way as to bring out the best in yourself and those around you." (For the Strength of Youth, Salt Lake City: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1990, p. 8.)

I remember teaching modesty to a group of 16 year old girls at EFY a couple of years ago. Our group name was "Shamefacedness" and we weren't even provided a scripture, but in personal scripture study one of the girls found the scripture that referanced our group name and taught me a little something as well. We had thought it had to do with modesty, but this added a new light.

2 Tim 2:9

9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest capparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

And right at the bottom of the page was the footnote saying it was from the Greek meaning modesty or reverence. Of course it makes sense that modesty and reverence would be related and somewhat interchangeable, but I had never really comtemplated the two together or as synonyms.

The Lord gave us our bodies and we have the priveledge to use them and clothe them. We should remember that the clothes we wear reverence the gift we were given.

I am afraid I cannot answer whether or not dancing costumes should have covered backs or if they can show off your hips, but I do know that the Lord gave us the guidelines for a reason. If we draw near unto Him, He will draw near unto us. Likewise, if we treat our bodies as the wonderous gift we have been given by the Lord, we will cover them in a suitable manner. I remember I was once told I should act as if the Savior could walk in the room at any moment. I believe the same goes for clothing our bodies. If you are clothing yourself in a way that you would be comfortable in the presence of the Savior, then you have nothing to worry about.

[Guest lauracooke78]

My take on it is simple and I have seen the results of immodest dress and how it affects the outcome of girls' lives.

This is my main general theory: Teach a young girl (and young man) to dress and be aware of modest dress standards when they come out of the womb and they have a fighting chance of staying morally pure as they get older. Allow your child to wear singlets and immodest clothes from the womb and they will be akin and think it normal as they grow older, and it will affect their moral behaviour.

Now for my real life observations: 1. Me. My mother taught me from day one to always wear clothes that cover my arm down to near my elbow. That was a norm to me. When I became a teenager and (we all know modesty standards have continuously declined over the ages) I saw other teenage girls wearing singlets and I thought they were so hot looking, I tried it once or twice, but I could not get over the feeling that I felt naked. I can directly attribute that to my mother's consistant efforts to teach me to dress morally when I was a baby - older. The outcome, I did not turn into those "hot looking" girls, I dressed modestly, I kept myself pure and was married a pure vessel in the Lord's temple to a worthy man.

2. ALL the girls I grew up with at church. Were allowed to wear skimpy clothes including singlets and very short shorts from toddler to teenager where parents lose their control over your decisions. Because of this non-consistancy with the parents influence, coupled with their non-control of types of music that enter the home and allow their children to listen to, ALL of the young women whom I grew up with lost their virginity before marriage, most had children before marriage and some of those got married, and some of those married ones got married in the temple after repentance.

From my observations comes my basic/general theory. I will point out to mothers every time I see them dress their daughters with no sleeves at church, that it is not cute and that it can have a grave affect on their daughters future. Of course I said it nicely and diplomatically. And the ironic thing about this is, the ones who listened to me we not family members... and the ones who didn't listen are family members.

I believe there is a direct link to dressing your little girls and boys modestly and how they behave as youth and young adults ( I believe this has to be coupled with influencing your children to listen to uplifting music and never let any of the pop culture into your home because from a young age little girls are hooked into the pop culture with little pop icons like Hannah Montana etc, and it is all a tool of Satan to hook them into sin).

As for young girls and dancing, that has to be the decision of the parents. I as a parent made a conscious decision to not get my daughter involved in dancing because of modesty issues. I believe most sports can be accomodated to dress modestly. ie. Our kids do swimming with long swimming shorts and swimming shirts.

One last example: As we are teaching our four children about agency in every thread of gospel subject we teach them in FHE, we were recently teaching them about modesty (we have already taught them about chastity to their level of understanding). Our family theme is "We use our agency when we choose to follow Christ's law and we lose our agency when we choose to follow Satan. So in terms of modesty, we took our kids on the internet and went to a site where you dress little dolls (boys and girls). Daddy did the dressing and the kids had to identify if the doll was using or losing their agency. This has been a great tool and we have talked about what is modest and what is not and they thouroughly understand the concept. When we are walking through the mall, my daughter will say, losing, using, using, losing (I have taught her not to point now :) ). This instills in them measures so when they dress themselves they can make that same judgement.

[utcowboy]

I found this article and thought you'd like to read it. If you've already seen it I'm sorry to waste your time.

Meridian Magazine :: Cami Style Confusion

[pam]

You can be a dancer and be modest at the same time. My sister owns a dance studio and one of their biggest selling points is their modesty in the choice of costumes for their dance recitals. It's amazing how many parents have signed their girls up for classes because of this ONE selling point. It can be done.

[kellymiller]

I took some of your words and made a much needed poem on modesty

anyone want to help it become better?

Modesty starts in your heart

Where the spirit can take part

It's more than what's on your skin

As it's all that flows from within

It is music and dancing

Love's courtship with romancing

It is wholesome and tasteful

And it's respectful and chasteful

It's not cleavage and armpits

And bare waists and high slits

What is underneath won't show

As you bend, reach up and throw

It's not having to straighten

Pick at, pull or rebutton

While with another you're visiting

And, it shows that you are interesting

It is not flaunting the curves

And watching who observes

It is feeling alive and grateful

While not being disdainful

It's recognizing our worth

And enjoying our life on earth

Not just because we have bodies

But for the knowledge it embodies

[VisionOfLehi]

Hmm. To the OP.

When I think "modest," I think of someone who kind of "puffs down" their own abilities, rather than "puffs up." "Oh, he's just being modest."

But when I think "immodest," I do think of clothing.

I think immodest clothing has a lot to do with intent. Is it intended to look sexual, tempting, or provocative? Is it's purpose to "look good?"

But where is the line drawn? Like in the dance recital... Is it merely artistic, or was it done so everyone looked good? If it's artistic, is that our current society's standard of artistic and acceptable, or more true to the roots of art?

I've seen many friends who wear garments that become visible when they sit down wearing shorts. Are their shorts immodest?

I can't tell.

I do believe 2 piece swimsuits/bikinis are immodest, even though they're worn for a "purpose." But guys go out without shirts on, when swimming... And though I think that's immodest for doing yard work or jogging, for some reason I think it's okay for swimming!

I think, overall, this is a good question.

[peanutgallery]

The church is pretty clear on what is modest dress and what is not. Of course modesty is more than just your choice in clothing, but there is no need to justify immodest dress because of an activity. For years, dancers have been able to perform without showing their stomachs, so why should we suddenly say that is appropriate?

From the For the Strength of Youth pamphlet:

"Never lower your dress standards for any occasion. Doing so sends the message that you are using your body to get attention and approval and that modesty is important only when it is convenient."

"Immodest clothing includes short shorts and skirts, tight clothing, shirts that do not cover the stomach, and other revealing attire. Young women should wear clothing that covers the shoulder and avoid clothing that is low-cut in the front or the back or revealing in any other manner. Young men should also maintain modesty in their appearance. All should avoid extremes in clothing, appearance, and hairstyle. Always be neat and clean and avoid being sloppy or inappropriately casual in dress, grooming, and manners. Ask yourself, 'Would I feel comfortable with my appearance if I were in the Lord’s presence?'

"Someday you will receive your endowment in the temple. Your dress and behavior should help you prepare for that sacred time."

Following these guidelines not only shows our faith in the Lord and his prophets but shows our gratitude and respect for our bodies, which are gifts from God. In 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 it says, "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are."

Let each of us choose to follow the divine commandment to be modest in how we dress, thus respecting our beautiful bodies.