Sealing Cancellation Letter

[anatess2]

On 12/6/2012 at 3:31 PM, Backroads said:

I'm wondering if the Church gets sick enough of divorces we might see such an idea enforced. I still must admit, I find it slightly unfair (and in reverse, if an ex-husband must wait for his ex-wife to remarry to even request a sealing clearance) but I also strongly believe it would be one of those things eventually worked out.

I find it unfair period that people can get unsealed as easily as they get divorced.  One would think sealings as an eternal ordinance should carry eternal obligations regardless of how both mortal entrants to such covenants want to rid themselves of it.

Edited December 26, 2017 by anatess2

[estradling75]

9 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

I find it unfair period that people can get unsealed as easily as they get divorced.  One would think sealings as an eternal ordinance should carry eternal obligations regardless of how both mortal entrants to such covenants want to rid themselves of it.

While I tend to agree with the idea of people not giving covenants the weight and concern they deserve.  But the simple fact is we brake eternal ordinances/covenant every time we sin.  Only Faith and Repentance can restore them.  If Faith and Repentance are not happening the Covenant is void anyway... all that is left is the Church acknowledgment of that state.

[anatess2]

4 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

While I tend to agree with the idea of people not giving covenants the weight and concern they deserve.  But the simple fact is we brake eternal ordinances/covenant every time we sin.  Only Faith and Repentance can restore them.  If Faith and Repentance are not happening the Covenant is void anyway... all that is left is the Church acknowledgment of that state.

Sure.  Covenant is void - you carry the weight of the consequences.  For it to be swept away as non-existent to have a do-over without the process of repentance does not make sense to me.

[estradling75]

6 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Sure.  Covenant is void - you carry the weight of the consequences.  For it to be swept away as non-existent to have a do-over without the process of repentance does not make sense to me.

Do you really think God is doing that?

[anatess2]

26 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

Do you really think God is doing that?

Of course not.  So why the Church allows it, I don't know.

[estradling75]

Just now, anatess2 said:

Of course not.  So why the Church allows it, I don't know.

So who do you think is more likely to know the mind of God on the matter... You or the local Leaders and Prophet have the stewardship on it?

[anatess2]

Just now, estradling75 said:

So who do you think is more likely to know the mind of God on the matter... You or the local Leaders and Prophet have the stewardship on it?

You sure you know what "I don't know" means?  Of course, the prophet has stewardship.  Doesn't mean I know why they do it.  It's not my place to tell them they're wrong.  It is only my place to try to understand why they do it.  I don't understand it.  I have no plans on divorcing or getting out of my sealing.  That sealing will be forever even if my husband decides to exchange me for a pair of twenties.  I promised God I will love my husband in as close as I can make it to the same manner He loves my husband.  What my husband does does not change that promise.

[estradling75]

2 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

You sure you know what "I don't know" means?  Of course, the prophet has stewardship.  Doesn't mean I know why they do it.  It's not my place to tell them they're wrong.  It is only my place to try to understand why they do it.  I don't understand it.  I have no plans on divorcing or getting out of my sealing.  That sealing will be forever even if my husband decides to exchange me for a pair of twenties.  I promised God I will love my husband in as close as I can make it to the same manner He loves my husband.  What my husband does does not change that promise.

Why do you think you need to understand why they do it?  Is it not enough to accept that God and his leaders know what they are doing and perfect Justice and Mercy will be the end result?

[anatess2]

1 minute ago, estradling75 said:

Why do you think you need to understand why they do it?  Is it not enough to accept that God and his leaders know what they are doing and perfect Justice and Mercy will be the end result?

I'm no lemming.  I can only be content with "I don't know" after I have asked and asked and asked to understand and an answer is not forthcoming.  Doesn't mean I'm not gonna ask again.  Only means I'm at peace with I don't know for now.  If my husband decides to ask me to get unsealed, he knows the answer will be No unless I get a clear answer to my desire to understand.  So, good thing he can get sealed without having to be unsealed first, huh? 

In any case, I don't know may be enough for the here and now but it will never be enough in our progression.  To progress means to eventually KNOW everything pertaining to the Kingdom of God including those that are still to be revealed.

[estradling75]

8 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

I'm no lemming. 

We are not talking about some theory of men here we are talking about God and his dealing with people that are not you.  Do you really think that Trusting God Knows what he is doing makes you a lemming?

[anatess2]

14 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

We are not talking about some theory of men here we are talking about God and his dealing with people that are not you.  Do you really think that Trusting God Knows what he is doing makes you a lemming?

The doctrine of Eternal Marriage is not "his dealing with people that are not you".  That's silly.

[estradling75]

1 minute ago, anatess2 said:

The doctrine of Eternal Marriage is not "his dealing with people that are not you".  That's silly.

When the day comes I hope to be found a Lemming in following the Lord...  But you seem to think that is a bad thing.

The doctrine of Eternal Marriage you seem to have a strong handle on... How the Lord choose to handle people who break or disregard Eternal Marriage is no longer under that doctrine but under the Doctrines of Faith, Repentance, Mercy and Justice.  Which I am sure you also have a strong handle on, so that you know that the application of Repentance and Forgiveness is Highly personal and highly Individualized and are not one size fits all in application. None of us as individuals are really fit Judges for someone else's repentance.  That is my point and it is not silly at all.

This conversation does remind me of a conversation Jesus had with the Pharisees on the subject of marriage.

It is in Matthew 19.

6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

This is Christ and he is talking about marriage.. which is easily applicable to Sealing

7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?

Verse 7 is the Pharisees asking about divorce if no man is to put asunder what God has joined.

8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

Verse 8 is Christ answer to why divorces were allowed.  It seems to be that "Hardness of Hearts" is still a valid reason for the Lord to command his Servants to allow a "writing of divorcement" aka Sealing Cancellation Letter

[anatess2]

1 minute ago, estradling75 said:

When the day comes I hope to be found a Lemming in following the Lord...  But you seem to think that is a bad thing.

The doctrine of Eternal Marriage you seem to have a strong handle on... How the Lord choose to handle people who break or disregard Eternal Marriage is no longer under that doctrine but under the Doctrines of Faith, Repentance, Mercy and Justice.  Which I am sure you also have a strong handle on, so that you know that the application of Repentance and Forgiveness is Highly personal and highly Individualized and are not one size fits all in application. None of us as individuals are really fit Judges for someone else's repentance.  That is my point and it is not silly at all.

I understand what you're saying, I think.  You don't understand what I'm saying, I'm sure.  That's fine.

Following without trying to understand is a lemming and is a bad thing.  Following even if one doesn't understand after searching because of one's Faith is not a lemming and not a bad thing.  Following while trying to understand is also not a lemming and not a bad thing.  So to question - why do you need to understand?  Answer:  because I'm not a lemming. 

I am not judging someone else's repentance.  I do not understand why a sealing is not kept to an eternal standard than earthly marriages.  I understand why earthly marriages like the Catholic marriages end at death.   I understand why eternal marriages in the LDS Church don't end at death.  The Catholic Church not having a path for divorce I understand.   The LDS Church having a path for cancellation of sealing - which is different from an annulment of sealing - I do not understand.  This has nothing to do with your marriage or the OPs marriage or any other marriages. It is the doctrine that I do not understand.  Not an individual's situation.   If God deemed us worthy to be charged with the restoration of eternal marriage why are we not worthy to be charged with the full import of such marriages? 

And that's all I have to say about that.

 

[zil]

6 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

I'm not a lemming.

But if you were, you'd be awfully cute:

[estradling75]

1 minute ago, anatess2 said:

 The LDS Church having a path for cancellation of sealing - which is different from an annulment of sealing - I do not understand.  This has nothing to do with your marriage or the OPs marriage or any other marriages. It is the doctrine that I do not understand.  Not an individual's situation.   If God deemed us worthy to be charged with the restoration of eternal marriage why are we not worthy to be charged with the full import of such marriages? 

And that's all I have to say about that.

 

Ahh I see... I think the answer is found in the scriptural verses I gave.  Hardness of Hearts.  Until the Sealing is ratified by the Holy Spirit it only exist as a possibility.  Your Sealing to your husband, my Sealing to my wife, everyone Sealing to their respective spouses until the Sealings are Ratified by the Holy Spirit of promise only exist in the paperwork of the Church.  They couple is under coventant to bring this to pass. If due to the hardness of someones heart that ratification does not happen then they do not have an eternal marriage they have an earthly marriage and some paperwork in the church record.

Seems to me that a divorce indicates that ratification of that Sealing by the Holy Spirit of Promise did not happen.  (This is of course speculation but it seems solid to me)   In this case there was never an eternal marriage to terminate.  Those that failed to do so are of course accountable to God for there actions and covenant breaking.

As for the church being charged with the full import... the church is made up of people and people are part of the world and the world has been degrading marriage for a long time now.  Christ (and his church) tend to met people were they are and then try to pull them up.  So as the world degrades marriage they Lord and his Church reach out farther.  This is not abandoning the doctrine but more of a Law of Moses type of baby steps to try to pull them up as far as they will go.

[JohnsonJones]

On ‎12‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 8:57 AM, anatess2 said:

I find it unfair period that people can get unsealed as easily as they get divorced.  One would think sealings as an eternal ordinance should carry eternal obligations regardless of how both mortal entrants to such covenants want to rid themselves of it.

I absolutely agree.  The Savior even mentioned some of this in his statements regarding divorce.  It is basically almost like adultery, especially if they get remarried once again.

However, he points out that it was allowed due to the weaknesses of the people.  Divorce in the LDS church has been gaining ground is getting more and more common.  The cancellation of sealings have been getting EASIER to get.  I think this is due to the weakness of the membership in our time.  I think the allowances for these things are getting easier simply because the world (and even members) are getting more wicked, and thus our weaknesses are getting larger.  Just like the Jews of the Old and New Testament, divorce (and temple sealing cancellations) are getting to be easier. 

I don't think this is a good thing, but as we get closer to the second coming men and the world will continue to grow in wickedness and holy things will be seen as naught, until, like with the Nephites before the Lord came, those who are left will NOT BE RIGHTEOUS, but merely those who were not as wicked as everyone else.

[Vort]

On 12/26/2017 at 10:22 AM, zil said:

But if you were, you'd be awfully cute:

I thought they looked like this.

[Sunday21]

cancelled this!

 

Edited January 11, 2018 by Sunday21

[phydroxide]

Wow, so much misguided speculation in this thread. It is worrisome to me the result is diminished not added value to the topic of temple sealings.