Conceal-carry permit frenzy

[Dravin]

Let's look at this from a business point of view. If I'm a firearms manufacturer, I want to be the top dog in my class of weapons. To do that, my product has to be unique, safe, reliable, and durable. If I fail in any of those areas, I won't be where I want.

There is a market for cheap. Not that your name brands are shooting to be top of the (almost literal) junk heap, but it can't be discounted as a market.

[HoosierGuy]

What's the deal with Austria and destruction? First they give us a guy named Adolf who killed millions of innocent people. Now they give us a guy who sales filthy Red Bull that young people use to mix with alcohol, and now another guy who creates guns with no external safety that are cheap and gangs and thugs love them!

[Guest]

Yeah, let's outlaw Austria!!!

[Vort]

What's the deal with Austria and destruction? First they give us a guy named Adolf who killed millions of innocent people. Now they give us a guy who sales filthy Red Bull that young people use to mix with alcohol, and now another guy who creates guns with no external safety that are cheap and gangs and thugs love them!

Yeah, plus Mozart, Archduke Ferdinand, and wieners.

[NeuroTypical]

I was in Austria in the 1990's. In Salzburg, I had the absolute, hands-down, no close 2nd place best roast beef sandwich I've ever had the priviledge of encountering. They keep that to themselves apparently.

[HoosierGuy]

So I bought me a gun magazine this evening at Books-a-Million. Combat Gun or something like that. What's one of the first articles? How to legally shoot a bad guy and not go to jail. And then a story about some guy in South Africa who was attacked and saved himself by pulling out his Glock and gunning the bad guy down. Then another story from the 1960s about a radio engineer saving himself with a gun. South Africa and 1960s? Hmm, having trouble finding actual modern U.S. stories about people saving their lives with guns?

And check this out - I was looking up Indiana gun classes and found some classes in Fort Wayne Indiana. This story is on their site:

"Dr. William Petit and his family were attacked in their home in Cheshire, Connecticut, on July 23, 2007, by two thugs who followed Mrs. Petit home from a grocery store. They beat Dr. Petit almost to death, forced Mrs. Petit to withdraw $15,000 from the bank on the promise of doing no harm to her and her daughters. They then raped and strangled Mrs. Petit, sexually assaulted the youngest daughter, and burned the house with the daughters still alive, inside. Dr. Petit escaped and survived.

The Petits were unarmed and defenseless."

What kind of person would use that kind of story to get people to take their gun classes? It's kind of creepy.

[Guest]

. . . people that don't want anyone else to go through what the Petits did? What kind of people want to desecrate our constitution and leave families unarmed and vulnerable to thugs who don't give a fig about gun laws, and down the road a possibly corrupt government? It's pretty creepy.

[pam]

So I bought me a gun magazine this evening at Books-a-Million. Combat Gun or something like that. What's one of the first articles? How to legally shoot a bad guy and not go to jail. And then a story about some guy in South Africa who was attacked and saved himself by pulling out his Glock and gunning the bad guy down. Then another story from the 1960s about a radio engineer saving himself with a gun. South Africa and 1960s? Hmm, having trouble finding actual modern U.S. stories about people saving their lives with guns?

And check this out - I was looking up Indiana gun classes and found some classes in Fort Wayne Indiana. This story is on their site:

"Dr. William Petit and his family were attacked in their home in Cheshire, Connecticut, on July 23, 2007, by two thugs who followed Mrs. Petit home from a grocery store. They beat Dr. Petit almost to death, forced Mrs. Petit to withdraw $15,000 from the bank on the promise of doing no harm to her and her daughters. They then raped and strangled Mrs. Petit, sexually assaulted the youngest daughter, and burned the house with the daughters still alive, inside. Dr. Petit escaped and survived.

The Petits were unarmed and defenseless."

What kind of person would use that kind of story to get people to take their gun classes? It's kind of creepy.

I don't understand why you would think this kind of story would be creepy. I remember when this was on the news. It was shocking and the kind of story that could happen anywhere.

[HoosierGuy]

OK, here are some stats from N.Y.'s finest - their police force:

http://www.nyclu.org/files/nypd_firearms_report_102207.pdf

This is public stuff:

Lets see, in 2005: 276 gun shots fired in gunfights. Only 23 hits out of those 276 gun shots. That's a small 8% hit rate. Now accidental discharges in 2005: 25 shots fired. Those accidental discharges that hit: 10. That's a whopping 40%

Now 2006. 144 shots fired in gunfights. Those that hit: 30%. Accidental discharges: 28 shots fired. Those that hit: 25%

I'm not sure if all the police force use Glocks but some or many of them do.

This report gets better:

Total number of incidents:

1. Accidental discharge - 21%

2. Gunfights - 10%

3. Other shoots vs. subject - 37%

4. Dogs - 24%

5. Mistaken Identity - 0%

6. Others - 6%

7. Suicide/Attempted - 2%

And more:

Weapons used by officers in those shooting incidents:

Revolvers - 5

Semi-Automatic Pistols - 147

Ithica Shot gun - 1

Colt M4 - 0

Interesting report but nothing I didn't really already know. Well, didn't know they had to shoot so many dogs. But I did know owning a pit bull is good indicator you are a bad person.

Anyway, those Glocks are dangerous, this report is proof.

[mirkwood]

Hmm, having trouble finding actual modern U.S. stories about people saving their lives with guns?

You must not have looked very hard. There are mutliple, easily found stories, just through an internet search. I personally know several people who have saved thier lives or the lives of others through the use of firearms.

[mirkwood]

Anyway, those Glocks are dangerous, this report is proof.

Hardly. I've carried a Glock 17 and a Glock 26 for 16 years. NO negligent discharges...EVER. At least 50% of my co-workers carry Glocks of varying models/calibers. Our agency over the course of 16 years has had less then a dozen ND's that I am aware of. ONE involved a Glock.

The reality of negligence in the discharge of a firearm is the operator. Guns don't shoot themselves, people make them go bang.

[pam]

Interesting report but nothing I didn't really already know. Well, didn't know they had to shoot so many dogs. But I did know owning a pit bull is good indicator you are a bad person.

Anyway, those Glocks are dangerous, this report is proof.

What? I just don't know how to respond to this. HG your ideas just get more bizarre every time you post.

[beefche]

What? I just don't know how to respond to this. HG your ideas just get more bizarre every time you post.

Well, that Cesar Milan who owns several and works with hundreds is...wait, is he a bad person? He rescues dogs, empowers people, gives to charities...yeah, he's pretty rotten.

[Dravin]

What? I just don't know how to respond to this. HG your ideas just get more bizarre every time you post.

It's kinda fun when you combine them, just imagine a pit-bull wielding a Glock.

[pam]

What's the deal with Austria and destruction? First they give us a guy named Adolf who killed millions of innocent people. Now they give us a guy who sales filthy Red Bull that young people use to mix with alcohol, and now another guy who creates guns with no external safety that are cheap and gangs and thugs love them!

Let's just bring in Arnold Schwarzenegger who is also from Austria. He will take care of the bad guys.

[beefche]

It's kinda fun when you combine them, just imagine a pit-bull wielding a Glock.

Is his name Mirkwood?

[pam]

Is his name Mirkwood?

Are you saying mirkwood looks like a pit bull?

[Vort]

But I did know owning a pit bull is good indicator you are a bad person.

How evil must you be if you own a pitbull named "Glock"?

Shoot. Dravin stole my thunder.

Edited January 31, 2013 by Vort
"Dravin" means "thunder stealer"

[beefche]

Are you saying mirkwood looks like a pit bull?

Naw, I'm saying he goes after the perps like a pit bull.

[Dravin]

I'm picturing a quirky police sitcom starting Mirkwood, a K-9 officer, who due to a strange mess up is assigned a pitbull named Glock. Mirkwood's love of Glocks would feature prominently and be a common plot point as the lesser non-Glock guns of criminals fail them at the most inopportune (for the criminal) moments. Maybe by season 3 we can work in where Glock is in a horrible accident and GLOCK Inc. rebuilds him ala Robocop, outfitting him with a suite of built in Glock weaponry. At which point fans will complain the show jumped the shark and became too action oriented but it will continue for another 2 seasons to end up with a cult fan following and surprisingly strong syndication figures.

Edited January 31, 2013 by Dravin

[NeuroTypical]

Hoosier, I have to give you kudos for looking into the matter further. Even if you are just confirming your own judgements, not everyone with your opinion bothers to even look as far as you are. If I could suggest something for further study, you could pick up a copy of Col. Cooper's Principles of Self Defense. Twelve bucks including shipping off Amazon.com. If you want to understand the heart and soul of a mature, sober gun nut, you can learn there. I doubt I'll agree with many of the conclusions you reach, but again, at least you're looking.

Anyway, those Glocks are dangerous, this report is proof.

Hey, you started out with a passionate, exclamation-point-fueled post about how Glocks made it "more easy to shoot oneself", and how they were "pure murder weapons". Now you're down to "those Glocks are dangerous". I'm willing to meet you halfway from there and agree that handguns, power tools, cars, and some chemicals can all be dangerous in the wrong hands.

And again, the Prophet's own bodyguards carry Glocks. Since you refuse to respond, the only thing left for me to say here, is neener-neener. :)

As for pitbulls, well, you're already beside yourself that my wife owns a Glock. I fear I might push you over the edge if I told you about how she used to rescue pitbulls from dog fighters and evaluate which ones were ok to place in families with small children.

[NeuroTypical]

Oh - and I'm not telling you which of us has this tattoo:

[mirkwood]

You all know I hate dogs right?

[beefche]

You all know I hate dogs right?

Oh my heck, that would make an even funnier sitcom with Dravin's plot....

[HoosierGuy]

Hoosier, I

As for pitbulls, well, you're already beside yourself that my wife owns a Glock. I fear I might push you over the edge if I told you about how she used to rescue pitbulls from dog fighters and evaluate which ones were ok to place in families with small children.

Well you just said pitbulls are owned by bad people - dog fighters! Again, not all pitpull owners are bad, but it's a good indicator.

Put an external safety on those Glocks and I'll be happy. I think having guns with no slide safeties is horrendous and the U.S. congress should have hearings and stop the sale of all guns that do not have external safeties.

I've been watching a lot of youtube videos from gun fans and reading some gun forums. It seems it's a popular idea to carry their guns "loaded" with one in the firing chamber. The general consensus seems to be if you don't have one in the chamber then your gun is useless. The craziness just never stops with those gun radicals. The chances of someone getting in a bad situation where they have to use their gun is very low. Then the chances of them having to fire a gun is even lower. And those guys think they have to be ready as fast as Marshall Matt Dillon so they carry one in the chamber, or so they say. Well if you want to carry a loaded GLOCK with a round in a chamber go right ahead, just don't carry in public and don't carry around kids and don't carry around me.