Doing more with 10%

pam · February 18, 2013

The government could learn great lessons from Mormons.

And we aren't in any debt.

Anddenex · February 18, 2013

A-men.

EDIT: The picture of the San Diego Temple is all the more convincing...to me. :) Yes, it has everything to do with the San Diego Temple being the place my beloved and I were sealed...unequivocally biased.

Edited February 18, 2013 by Anddenex

pam · February 19, 2013

Since San Diego is my home town, I would have to agree. :)

Traveler · February 19, 2013

There is a very big and real difference between tithing and taxes. The goal in taxes is to gain revenue from which the government is able to exercise and distribute its power and influence. Tithing on the other hand is intended to encourage thrift and productivity. In short taxes is intended to empower the government and tithing is intended to empower individuals.

Once we understand the actual purpose of tithing and taxes we can begin to realize how much more effective taxes are than tithing.

The Traveler

pam · February 19, 2013

Yes I can see how much effective taxes are than tithing.

My taxes are going to a government that goes further and further into debt while my take home pay goes lower and lower. I'm gaining so much more from that. I could be taxed at 50% and we would still not begin to touch the deficit that our country has gotten ourselves into.

Where as my tithing goes to building temples around the world that families can go to be together forever. A place where ordinances for family members that didn't have that opportunity during mortal life can be done. My tithing goes to the building of meetinghouses so that I can go to worship and learn how I can be more Christlike and return to my Father in Heaven.

My tithing is used to sustain missionary work so more can be brought into the gospel.

My tithing is used to help educate church members and to further the work of the Lord.

Can my taxes do that and with the same amount as tithing?

ZionsRodeVos · February 19, 2013

It is not comforting to know that the US government wants to tax me more and still is going to go further and further into debt. The people who are in a position to fix the problem are not fixing it.

Yes, as Pam said there is a lot the government could learn from the LDS and other people who know how to not spend more money than you earn.

February 19, 2013

To be fair, it does stretch the dollar quite a bit to have mostly volunteer workers. I'd love for the government to shrink up and take less in taxes, but I don't think we could staff an effective military by charging 19 year olds $400 a month for the privilege of serving their country.

pam · February 19, 2013

We also can't have an effective military with the budget cuts being done. Fighter pilots being delegated to desk jobs. Cutting back on aircraft engine maintenance and ship maintenance to stretch the budget out. That puts the pilots and flight crew at risk. When I worked in a Navy helicopter and jet engine shop, the helicopter engines were brought in after 700 hours of flight time. That is now being stretched to far beyond that.

Backroads · February 19, 2013

I have no argument with the theory of taxes. In a perfect world, my taxes should be quite effective. But that doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

November 28, 2013

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December 6, 2013

Brace yourselves, this is a long one. :)

Many say that the LDS faith does so much good. I certainly am not saying that they don't do any good. But I think things should be put into perspective here. My issues with most people in our society these days is that it seems that they dont' really think outside of the box - to take a view from other angles perse. It doesn't matter from what walk of life they come, it seems to be a growing epidemic of people blindly following and doing what other men who claim authority over them want them to do. Here is an example. Forget about the 6 billion dollar mall topic, why don't we look at tithing, given that this post started with the whole "10%" vs. the gov's "50".

The church claims it has 15,000,000 members. Half of those are probably active, maybe more ,maybe less. That is about 7.5 million active members. If we take half of them, we have 3.75 million members. This is probably the number of members that pay tithing regularly (the other half could be children or those that do not pay their tithing). If the average person that pays their tithing makes $25,000 a year (I think that number is bigger) and they pay 10 percent of that to the church - that's $2,500 per person, per year. That's 9,375,000,000 (billion) a year, just in tithing monies received. That equals to about 781 million per month, and about 26 million a day. Based off these numbers and the church's history, it's safe to assume that the church is worth about 100 billion dollars, and I wouldn't be surprised if that number is much greater.

With that said, the church recently mentioned that they have given 1 billion dollars in relief aid in the past 25 years. Keep in mind that this is a monetary number. The church itself gave about 350 million, but they valued their services (people volunteering, donating, etc.) to about 1 billion. The point is this: Why does the church boast that they do so much good for other people (I'm not saying they don't do any good by the way) when in all actuality, they don't' really give that much at all? That 1 billion dollars is in 25 years time. That's only 1 percent of what the church is worth today, and if you break that number down into years, then this year alone, they only gave .04 percent of their worth to help others. All their money is tied up into investments and buildings. They own numerous companies and stocks which are for profit companies, most of which are also kept out of the eyes of the public.

I have many friends who have a hard time receiving financial help from the church. The church has recently started to encourage members to seek financial aid from the federal and state government before they ask for help from the church. These are people who pay 10 percent of their worth and also provide money for fast offerings. When someone pays their fast offerings, they're technically giving the amount of what two meals would cost and that money is allocated accordingly. Those who are wealthier are encouraged to donate more than this if they so wish. Break the previous numbers down even more, and the church only gives the equivalent of $2.67 per member that they claim towards helping others.

While it is not my intent to attack anyone, but to simply provide information so people can see things from a different perspective, I must say that, if the LDS church is indeed true, then there clearly is a lot of misunderstanding regarding what's actually going on within the organization. If the LDS church is not true (study the topics and find out for yourself), then who would argue that it is simply taking advantage of the human condition - the need to belong to something - the need for community - the need to be a part of others who believe in the same things that they believe - and the need to know that this life is not where the road ends; all in order to have power and control over people while bringing in an astronomical amount of money, that of which hardly any is spent on what you would think Christ would be spending it on.

On a business level and based on certain LDS claims, I'd be disappointed if the church were not the fastest growing religion on the earth. After the vast amounts of money they spend on advertising, controlling the internet when someone types in spiritual or religious word, etc. it doesn't surprise me that they are growing. But, just because something is growing on a numbers level, does not add to its truth or validity. I'm sure that at a point in time, the Catholic church was the fastest growing church on the earth. But if the LDS church wants to use this argument, then they must concede that their growth has nothing to do with it's truth, because they certainly would admit that the Catholic church is not the true church. The same applies to all religions, popular or unknown.

It saddens me that more money is spent protecting the church's image and what outsiders think of the organization than is given to those who really need it. According to christian faiths as a whole, would Christ's teachings still exist if you take away the Bible or the Book of Mormon? Sure they would. Did Christ need buildings upon buildings and piles of money to preach his gospel? No, he didn't. Can Christ still be organized without having a church or a temple to attend? Sure he can.

If the church encourages its members to seek help elsewhere before approaching them for help, isn’t it a fair question to ask what it’s doing spending 6 billion dollars on the City Creek Mall in Salt Lake City? I was just there. It’s quite impressive. Why does the church need a mall? They claim that the money used to build the mall didn't come from church tithing. Didn't everything the church has built up to this day come from member tithing at some point?

I wish people who read and make pictures such as the one above, would really look deeper into the topics that they raise, so they can realize that perhaps their perspective is not all what it's cracked up to be.

December 6, 2013

Brace yourselves, this is a long one :)