Underwear & infidelity?

[Truth12]

Looking for advice/counsel/direction/answers etc.... The short version is I'm trying to determine to what extent, if any, that my wife is having an affair(s). I know she has gone on a few dates, she calls them platonic friendships but keeps it all a secret. I am collecting evidence and trying to get a complete picture before heading towards divorce. If we ask her directly, she goes more underground. There is more to the story but just one main question today.

The question I don't have an answer to is in regards to underwear. I have noticed that several times she will wear "civilian" underwear and not her garments. Around me and the kids she always wears her garments but when she goes to work etc. sometimes she switches to the other. I just happened to notice a few pairs she hides, some days they are there, other days gone. Days that they are gone they reappear shortly after she gets home from work. I don't believe this is a normal LDS married woman's behavior but, I'm not a woman.

Is there some "womanly" reason an LDS woman would do this?

Should I be alarmed? What does this indicate? How should I proceed?

I appreciate any insight you can offer.

Married 20 years; 2 children.

[Guest]

Sometimes a woman will wear "civilian" underwear during their period. Beyond that, I don't know. If you really suspect she is having an affair and you want to save your marriage, I suspect going to marriagebuilders.com and seek advice on their forums. They have great input on how to find out and then how to deal with it to give your marriage the best chance of surviving.

[Wingnut]

If we ask her directly, she goes more underground.

Who's "we"?

[Windseeker]

I know she has gone on a few dates, she calls them platonic friendships but keeps it all a secret.

If you know about them, how are they secret?

If we ask her directly, she goes more underground

Who is 'we', are you working with someone on this? One of your kids perhaps?

As far as your question is concerned, the only reason my wife wears regular underwear is when she goes to Yoga. Does your wife workout?

If you are really concerned you might want to check her calls, emails and text messages.

Also there are those who disagree, but there should really not be any "Platonic" relationships with the opposite sex that involve going out somewhere alone together unless it's unavoidable and strickly business related. Even then I would recommend them looking for different employment.

just my 2 cents

[Bini]

I am collecting evidence and trying to get a complete picture before heading towards divorce.

It doesn't sound like OP is interested in resolving issues within the marriage but rather building a case against his wife with "signs" that may or may not be evidence of infidelity.

[Gwen]

Are they "sexy" undies or just something practical (like for dr appointments or period)? If "sexy" does she ever wear them for you?

You don't have to actually answer that by the way. If they are sexy and she's hiding them then I might be worried. Otherwise....

Keep in mind that the wearing of the garments is between the person and the lord and she may have fair reasons for doing what she is doing.

[Guest]

Actually building a case with proof before confronting her is a good idea. Cheaters always lie. Always. If you have indisputable evidence that they are being unfaithful, you can skip the whole "I didn't do it" phase and move on into recovery. Marriagebuilders.com. Really. Marriage counselors might disagree, but they also have terrible stats for actually saving marriages; the methods taught by marriagebuilders aren't easy, but they do have a better track record for success.

[Bini]

Actually building a case with proof before confronting her is a good idea. Cheaters always lie. Always. If you have indisputable evidence that they are being unfaithful, you can skip the whole "I didn't do it" phase and move on into recovery. Marriagebuilders.com. Really. Marriage counselors might disagree, but they also have terrible stats for actually saving marriages; the methods taught by marriagebuilders aren't easy, but they do have a better track record for success.

I should have clarified more.

Yes, building a case with facts is beneficial but building one with "maybe facts" is not beneficial. I was also responding to his overall tone in original post. It sounds like if she is having an affair, it's an outright deal breaker, and divorce is it. I think serious consideration and knowing what is fact versus speculation, is of utmost importance, if divorce is the answer.

[Truth12]

The "we" part is my kids, largely my son because he discovered her post to Craigslist looking for a male friend. He also discovered several emails of hers to other men. He asked me "why is mom looking for boyfriends". I did catch some of her emails to other men through the keylogger on the computer to keep track of the kids. She now does not use the home computers for any email/internet activity. I do know that she has gone out on dates, lied about going to work and then others telling me the story. She admitted once but contends it is a platonic friendship. For a while we were able to track her cell phone (GPS) to know she was lying. I know while I and the kids took a trip to see family (she refused to go, had to work) the home modem logged in a name identical to one of her "platonic" male friends and the phone repair person provided additional info.

Overall I know she is seeing other men on a regular basis. I know she found these men through Craigslist. I know she has regular email and texts with them. Everything points towards her having an affair. What I don't know is are these men just friends or something more. I don't know if she has been physical with them. I don't have a smoking gun.

Why is this important? If in her mind these men are just friends then there may be hope for our marriage. It is possible that she has a warped way of looking at reality (past events). If these men are more than platonic boyfriends and she has been physical with them, then it's too late and I need to have evidence for the divorce. She will deny everything unless I can show evidence. I highly suspect she is cheating but she appears to others she is a "molly mormon" girl. No one will believe she is capable of cheating. I'm starting to find evidence that indicates she has always cheated from the beginning. I feel I need to know for sure before another confrontation, I need evidence. Right now I only have circumstantial evidence that makes an indication, I don't want to draw a conclusion based on indications.

The underwear... mostly boyshort type, kinda sexy I suppose...she has never worn anything "sexy" for me I've never seen her in this underwear. She runs everyday wearing her garments, underwear is only worn when away from us.

Edited February 19, 2013 by Truth12

[Truth12]

..." It sounds like if she is having an affair, it's an outright deal breaker, and divorce is it. I think serious consideration and knowing what is fact versus speculation, is of utmost importance, if divorce is the answer."...

The deal breaker isn't so much the affair, it is the outright lying, deception, and destruction it causes. If she would be honest and talk about it, show any remorse or regret, then we have something to work with. Her failure to be honest is the problem. Right now I don't believe she wants to work on the marriage, I don't think she wants to be married. Before I give up on 20 years of marriage, I want to make sure my facts are straight and based in solid evidence.

I guess I keep hoping that her behavior and activities are for good, that in time she will reveal a project she worked on that simply gave the impression of an affair. However, I realize the reality it is most likely an affair.

[Gwen]

It sounds like you are pretty sure just looking for proof.

I think you need to put your energy into protecting the kid(s). How many do you have? How old is the one involved? This could be a very damaging situation for them. If you feel that pressed for evidence before moving forward hire a PI for awhile, get what you need for closure and start working on healing the family.

[Wingnut]

Keep the kids out of it.

[MorningStar]

Oh man! Not only is she lying, she is really bad at lying! If adultery isn't a deal breaker for you, then maybe issue her some major consequences and tell her she will be out of the house (or whatever arrangement you think is best) until she can be honest. Also, call her on every lie and don't accept any excuses. Lies sometimes make me physically ill, especially from those closest to me. Ugh!

Edited February 19, 2013 by MorningStar

[Windseeker]

I'm sorry to hear what your going thru. I've been thru this myself it's a tragedy.

[NeuroTypical]

Yeah, protect your children and keep them out of it to the extent possible. How old are they?

I'd get a lawyer, and absolutely keep a paper trail and daily log of everything that happens.

[Backroads]

Yeah, sounds downright suspicious.

As a female, the only times I do not wear my garments is for exercise where I am not practicing yoga in my living room (garments are an incredible yoga outfit, if it's not disrepectful to say so). If I were going to work, then the gym, I would stay in my garments and change at the gym. I suppose changing way ahead of time might just be your wife's thing, but I really can't think of any good reason for that behavior.

[Truth12]

I didn't plan on telling the story but perhaps you will have more insight.

My kids are my priority which is why I'm being careful and trying to cover all basis with evidence rather than assumptions. My son is now 10 and my daughter is 12. My son has developed some anger issues directly tied to the situation and my wife's behaviors. My daughter tries to ignore and remove herself from the issue. She defends her mom on everything even though she knows something is going on. The affair and lying is only one part of the problem. She also displays anger, yells a lot, is sarcastic, negative, and can be verbally abusive to both me and the kids. She can also be very nice and loving. The kids say "just when we get used to her being mean she goes and does something nice". She is never happy and chooses to complain about everything. It isn't that she sees the glass half empty, she doesn't even see the glass.

I'm a very patient and forgiving person which I believe is the only reason the marriage has worked. She has all the signs of a co-dependent, 80% of a borderline personality disorder, and 90% of an obsessive compulsive personality disorder. Think "Walking on eggshells" when around her 70+% of the time. And she denies that she is any part of the problem in our marriage. I finally got her to go to marriage counseling; she went in, told the counselor "my husband needs fixing". She never returned. A few years later she agreed to go to another therapist, as soon as the topic turned towards her part in the problems, she quit going. All the therapists agree that she has some major issues. To clarify "all", I worked in mental health and had supervision with several of them. I have learned that I am not the problem in the relationship except that I should have stopped her behavior years ago. She basically has never learned to love her self and therefore can not love anyone else, and I have been sympathetic to her "illness" trying to help her get better.

She has said that she wants a divorce in the past but she never takes action, I assume she wants everyone to think I am the problem and that I filed not her. The reason or motive for now moving towards divorce is the "alleged affair" and I have discovered that she never loved me. I found some notes and letters of hers she wrote to friends weeks before we got married where she states "I don't love him but he is good husband material". I have also found out that friends and family knew she didn't love me, they just didn't feel it was their place to say anything. I do have divorce papers written but my children are my main priority so I need be sure.

I know the kids would be best to be with me, so I need to make sure all the evidence is in to assure I am custodial parent if we divorce. The only reason the kids would want to be with their mother is because they are afraid she can't handle being alone (they have already expressed that). The past three years she has refused to go on any vacations with us and most activities. She always finds an excuse not to go. I have been the main caretaker of the children the past 8 years however, as the father that doesn't always count in court.

The other reason I need to be clear about the facts is because I've been unemployed and have no money. She actually closed out our accounts a year ago, opened a new one without my name taking all the savings. I can't afford a PI, or another place to live for me and the kids until I get some work again which is difficult in this economy. I want to have all the facts and evidence so when I do find work I will have leverage to force her hand to either come clean and work on the marriage or call it quits. Evidence of an affair may also play a role in child support and alimony. I am getting over the numbness and starting to feel like my love for her is leaving; I deserve to be with someone that loves me and accepts me for me.

Overall my priority is for the children's welfare and mental health. I am the stable one and have always been there for them. If she were to get custody, the kids would end up with her negative behaviors which are not healthy. I have no support so I'm doing this all on my own, perhaps being over protective but wanting to assure my kids have a positive outlook on life.

[Truth12]

In regards to the underwear...

She only wears it when going away from the house (without us). If it were for "female" problems I would assume they would be worn at home as well. There are also times when she is having her period and does not wear the underwear and years prior she never owned underwear outside of garments. She changes to garments as soon as she gets home. She does not go to a gym but runs in the morning in sweats and garments.

Is it then fair to say she is wearing underwear for other reasons? Like plans to take off clothes for someone else?

Additional note: I did find that she was going to some apartments before and after work. These apartments are where students typically live (and I would never go to). She has now disabled her phone GPS so I can't track her movements. Again, it appears she is doing something along the lines of an affair but all I have is her car being there assuming the GPS service was accurate.

[kapikui]

Something like this might help as far as evidence

CheckMate Infidelity Test Kit for Semen-Sperm Stain Detection.

Edited February 19, 2013 by kapikui
spelling

[ZionsRodeVos]

I am very sorry for all you and your children have been through. Most of what you wrote about how your wife treats you and your children reminds me of my childrens mom.

One of the key factors in me being granted custody of my four children was the Guardian Ad Litem that the court assigned. That lawyer represented the children and visited me when I had the children at least twice and visited my childrens mom while she had the children. I'm sure my documentation helped but that lawyer was critical in telling the judge which parent would see to their needs the best. I suggest you find out if in your state such a thing exists and let your lawyer know you want a lawyer .

Also a home study was done which included a social worker interviewing me and talking with the children some.

I too, had to wait until there was enough documentation before initiating the separation. In your case it does sound like things are made more difficult by the fact that you don't currently have a job.

[Guest]

I'm sorry for the incredibly difficult position you're in. I think in your position, the only thing I can think of to do is go to the bishop for counsel and support, or at very least a priesthood blessing.

[Jennarator]

Sounds like my husband's ex. Yeah, she cheated big time. And my ex, too, he did the craig's list thing. Gather the proff and go to a lawyer. If you have proof and get the paperwork going, you'll get the kids, (most of the time) I am sorry this is happening.

[All_Apologies]

"I don't believe this is a normal LDS married woman's behavior but, I'm not a woman. "

This is not normal LDS married woman behavior. Danger! Danger! Danger!

"Is there some "womanly" reason an LDS woman would do this?"

No. Absolutely not.

"Should I be alarmed?"

YES!!!!!!!

"What does this indicate?"

She is probably up to something she shouldn't be up to.

"How should I proceed?"

Pay close attention to what's going on.

Hey, I know this is a danger sign about the underwear because I am an LDS woman and when I didn't wear my G's, it was because I planned on cheating on my husband. I am for real. Been there, done that, got the tee shirt, and DON'T wanna do it gain. It is my biggest regret. Just watch out. This is a huge red flag. Prayers sent up for you.

[Wingnut]

I keep thinking about this thread. I understand that the OP is in a difficult position, but there's something about his behavior that really bothers me. It doesn't strike as a sign of good parenting (something he's trying to establish) to engage one's ten-year-old child as an ally in the search for proof that mom is cheating. It hurts my heart that a ten-year-old has to deal with splitting parents at all, much less help gather evidence.

[MorningStar]

Something like this might help as far as evidence

CheckMate Infidelity Test Kit for Semen-Sperm Stain Detection.

Ew! If your marriage is so bad that you have to test your spouse's underwear, I think it's time to call it quits.