Yet another 'sexual sin' thread

[Anonono]

Hi there,

I'm an ex-mormon, I guess you could say, I've not been excommunicated, although I'm sure I'd qualify for it, and I'd like to know your honest opinion about what I should do.

I'm gay. I was born into the mormon church into a perfectly functional family (well at least as functional as a mormon family can be) and I genuinely believe I was born this way. I guess I've always known I was gay from a very young age. I can date 'homosexual tendencies' back to when I was 7, but I only really said it to myself out loud and acknowledged it when I moved away from home at the age of 20. While I was growing up i felt hatred and shame towards myself, which I felt both my family (although I had never told them) and the church were to blame for. Now I believe, like many others, that I was born like this, or at least that something happened to me before gaining self awareness to make me this way. To be born as something and to be taught that I was hated for something I couldn't help took a toll on my mental health during my teen years. I have done terrible things to myself over this time because of this.

I'm sure you'd be happy to hear that this self hatred is all behind me, however detaching myself from church was a crucial step for me to accomplish this current state of happiness. I'm now in a long term relationship with another man and I am very happy with my life, but I feel like I have left the church very abruptly without giving a reason. Should i speak to a bishop and request that I get excommunicated? Do you think I should stay in the church and attempt celibacy? and what I'm most interested to hear from you is, do you think I'm a bad person?

[Vort]

Why do you care what a bunch of anonymous people on an internet discussion board think? You need to establish your relationship with God, not with us.

[Dravin]

Do you think I should stay in the church and attempt celibacy?

Yes.

and what I'm most interested to hear from you is, do you think I'm a bad person?

"Bad person" is a bit of a loaded and unspecific term.

[Just_A_Guy]

Either the LDS Church is what it claims to be, or it is not.

If it is, then conforming every aspect of your life to its teachings--however difficult or inconvenient or even, at times, absolutely gut-wrenching--will increase your happiness over time, even if at present you don't see just how that might be possible.

On the other hand, if the Church is not what it claims to be--then you owe it nothing.

[Wingnut]

Should i speak to a bishop and request that I get excommunicated?

You can resign your membership without being excommunicated. You would need to contact your bishop for that still, though.

[Anonono]

Either the LDS Church is what it claims to be, or it is not.

If it is, then conforming every aspect of your life to its teachings--however difficult or inconvenient or even, at times, absolutely gut-wrenching--will increase your happiness over time, even if at present you don't see just how that might be possible.

On the other hand, if the Church is not what it claims to be--then you owe it nothing.

That's a very mature statement. I don't feel like I owe the church anything either way, I'm happy how I am right now, and if God decides to judge me for living my life the happiest way I can, without harming anyone, then let him.

You can resign your membership without being excommunicated. You would need to contact your bishop for that still, though.

So excommunication only happens to people who are interested in staying in the church? This is new to me.

Why do you care what a bunch of anonymous people on an internet discussion board think? You need to establish your relationship with God, not with us.

Does it matter? I'm simply asking for what the general thoughts are on this situation. Last time I checked you didn't need to beg to be judged in the mormon church.

[beefche]

Does it matter? I'm simply asking for what the general thoughts are on this situation. Last time I checked you didn't need to beg to be judged in the mormon church.

Interesting statement. So, is that why you are here? To be judged?

[Windseeker]

Well for what it's worth Anonono, From what you have shared about yourself so far I don't think that you are a bad person. We all have our struggles.

[Wingnut]

So excommunication only happens to people who are interested in staying in the church? This is new to me.

Excommunication is something that is put upon you. If you wish to leave the Church on your own, you can.

[Anonono]

Interesting statement. So, is that why you are here? To be judged?

No, please don't take this the wrong way. I'm not here with any malevolent reasons. I genuinely want to hear an opinion. I want to hear about what you think of this scenario. I have read similar subjects to this in the forum in the past when the elephant(me in this case) wasn't in the room, and there was nothing inhibiting the community from speaking their mind. Why can't we have this discussion?

[sarah331]

Oh you're not a bad person at all. I'm happy to hear you're in a loving relationship :)

Have you seen the site No More Strangers? I'd check that out. Also look at Mitch Mayne's site. Both of these may help you find a reconciliation in your soul, which seems to be what you're looking for.

[sarah331]

Also the only thing you owe anyone is yourself your happiness.

[Dravin]

No, please don't take this the wrong way. I'm not here with any malevolent reasons. I genuinely want to hear an opinion. I want to hear about what you think of this scenario. I have read similar subjects to this in the forum in the past when the elephant(me in this case) wasn't in the room, and there was nothing inhibiting the community from speaking their mind. Why can't we have this discussion?

If you've spent much time on the forum then you can probably appreciate why some people might be cautious of your posts. I can appreciate that the caution may be a bit annoying for you, as you probably want to jump right in, but it should settle down in a little bit.

[estradling75]

Does it matter? I'm simply asking for what the general thoughts are on this situation. Last time I checked you didn't need to beg to be judged in the mormon church.

It matters because you made it clear that it is the most important thing that you are looking for. Most people don't consider the opinions of anonymous strangers to be all that important to how they live their life. Thus it doesn't make a whole lot of sense and further questions are needed to try to gain understanding.

This is a predominately LDS website therefore you had to know that the main advice would be to live according to the teachings. However such recommendations mean nothing until and unless you are willing to follow Christ and believe that the LDS can help you do so.

As for Church action it depends... Do you wish to sever your connection officially? If so then you will need to talk to your bishop. Other wise you are simply another inactive member that the church will on occasion try to reach out to.

[skippy740]

What we think... doesn't matter.

It's about what you think and want... and what you think your Heavenly Father thinks and wants for you.

If you want to leave the Church, and not have ANY future contact with the Church, then I would simply contact your Bishop and request that your records be removed. It will typically take a letter and a little bit of time.

[mikbone]

Your original post is devoid of two concepts. God, and a testimony.

If you just think of the church as a social institution, you don't owe the church anything.

[Wordnerd]

Also the only thing you owe anyone is yourself your happiness.

Please don't take this at a criticism, but I, and many LDS people don't believe that our personal happiness is the most important thing in this life. It is a common belief in our society, and used to justify doing whatever people feel will make them feel good regardless of the consequences. We have made covenants with God and keeping those covenants and serving Him are the most important things even if it is harder and requires sacrifice in the short term. In the long term (eternally) it will bring us greater happiness than we could know here on earth.

[sarah331]

Please don't take this at a criticism, but I, and many LDS people don't believe that our personal happiness is the most important thing in this life. It is a common belief in our society, and used to justify doing whatever people feel will make them feel good regardless of the consequences. We have made covenants with God and keeping those covenants and serving Him are the most important things even if it is harder and requires sacrifice in the short term. In the long term (eternally) it will bring us greater happiness than we could know here on earth.

Hmm even when you're talking about big, huge, longterm happiness that comes from loving yourself and having a partner in love?

I see the argument when you're talking about like, drinking, or something like that. But Happiness in the largest sense should still be a goal, right? Would you want someone to be miserable in their life here on Earth?

[estradling75]

Hmm even when you're talking about big, huge, longterm happiness that comes from loving yourself and having a partner in love?

I see the argument when you're talking about like, drinking, or something like that. But Happiness in the largest sense should still be a goal, right? Would you want someone to be miserable in their life here on Earth?

We want someone to be happy throughout all eternity. Earthly pleasures come and go and we are only here a short time. While we don't want them to be miserable on this earth we do firmly believe that the greatest, and longest term happiness is gained by bringing your life in harmony with the will of God.

[Dravin]

Please don't take this at a criticism, but I, and many LDS people don't believe that our personal happiness is the most important thing in this life. It is a common belief in our society, and used to justify doing whatever people feel will make them feel good regardless of the consequences. We have made covenants with God and keeping those covenants and serving Him are the most important things even if it is harder and requires sacrifice in the short term. In the long term (eternally) it will bring us greater happiness than we could know here on earth.

Your post brings to mind:

10 Do not suppose, because it has been spoken concerning restoration, that ye shall be restored from sin to happiness. Behold, I say unto you, wickedness never was happiness.

I see the argument when you're talking about like, drinking, or something like that. But Happiness in the largest sense should still be a goal, right?

Note the scripture quoted above. If the long-term goal is happiness, it won't be found in sin. Spending your Earth life in sin isn't a long term perspective, it's a short term one. Happiness in the largest sense comes from following Christ and his commandments.

Would you want someone to be miserable in their life here on Earth?

Nope, we want people to be happy. But again, happiness is found in proper understanding and application of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, not in sin contrary to the commandments of God.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Dravin

[sarah331]

Oh I guess I just don't think OP is sinning :) I'll step out of the convo, it's digressing in a way I don't think is beneficial to OP. Thanks, though!

[Anonono]

Please don't take this at a criticism, but I, and many LDS people don't believe that our personal happiness is the most important thing in this life. It is a common belief in our society, and used to justify doing whatever people feel will make them feel good regardless of the consequences. We have made covenants with God and keeping those covenants and serving Him are the most important things even if it is harder and requires sacrifice in the short term. In the long term (eternally) it will bring us greater happiness than we could know here on earth.

The reason for my parents to join the church was a search for their personal happiness, to their family this was rebelling as both my grandparents are catholics. In their eyes they have transgressed and in the church's eyes I have transgressed. But the one thing these 3 generations had in common was a pursuit of happiness, which we have all found in different things, and which contributed to our own personal self fulfilment. The notion of not accepting other's happiness seems a little unfair when you've achieved yours.

[Wordnerd]

I had a big long post typed out, but Estradling said it better. I will only add that people can be happy in the midst of terrible trials, simply because they choose to be.

[EarlJibbs]

Hmm even when you're talking about big, huge, longterm happiness that comes from loving yourself and having a partner in love?

I see the argument when you're talking about like, drinking, or something like that. But Happiness in the largest sense should still be a goal, right? Would you want someone to be miserable in their life here on Earth?

Your argument comes down to the fundamental question of why are we even here in the first place? We didnt come to this Earth for Happiness (while on Earth). Although happiness can be found, even through times of misery. We came here with eternal prospectives with a knowledge that trials and unhappiness would ensue. But we still came. Now I admit that I say these things and beleive them, but I do not feel that I have a trial in my life as hard as homosexuality, but I would hope that my testimony wouldnt change.

This has nothing to do with the OPs questions.

Is he a bad person = Not for us to judge, but I dont think so.

Should he attempt celibecy and stay in the Church = Personally, yes, it will be worth it in the end. But everyone has to make their own path in life

Should he ask to be removed from the church because of his lifestyle = I have no opinion on that. But it would imagine that it depend on being celibit

Edited April 4, 2013 by EarlJibbs

[Dravin]

The notion of not accepting other's happiness seems a little unfair when you've achieved yours.

Only in the sense that it's unfair that sound travels through a medium and not through a vacuum. We don't accept that sin leads to happiness because, "I have my happiness, get lost." but because, "That's not how reality works."