Military spending

[Airwolf84]

Hi guys, I'm new here - was just wondering if everyone knew about this:

I'm also curious if anyone knows the truth about what really happened on September 11, 2001 that got us to where we are today and what we are seeing politically, financially and militarily? For those who are unaware, the truth will be highly disturbing. I haven't seen a 9/11 thread yet and so I'm assuming the issue/topic hasn't been discussed, but being new, that may not be the case.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Airwolf84
Just wanted to add more text

[selek]

This thread brought to you by a grant from the Reynold Wrap Corporation.

[Airwolf84]

This thread brought to you by a grant from the Reynold Wrap Corporation.

Selek, that's a nice way to welcome someone... with an insult. Are you interested in the truth about 9/11 or are you one of those who thinks anyone who is skeptical of the official fairy tale is a tinfoil hat wearer? Edited April 4, 2013 by Airwolf84

[selek]

My comment was about the topic, not the poster.

If that's not fair game, then why bother posting at all?

[Airwolf84]

My comment was about the topic, not the poster.

If that's not fair game, then why bother posting at all?

Sorry if I misunderstood your post - I thought you were calling me a tinfoil hat wearer with the Reynolds Wrap comment.

[selek]

Hi guys, I'm new here - was just wondering if everyone knew about this:

Aside from the fact that your source is a comedy show rather than a serious journalistic enterprise, the answer is: "Yes, we are aware that the United States has a disproportionately large military budget."

We also have disproportionately large military and diplomatic responsibilites.

So what?

What does that have to do in any way, shape, fashion, or form with LDS culture, thought, belief, or practice?

What possible relevance does it have other than to instigate a political catfight?

Speaking of which:

I'm also curious if anyone knows the truth about what really happened on September 11, 2001 that got us to where we are today and what we are seeing politically, financially and militarily? For those who are unaware, the truth will be highly disturbing. I haven't seen a 9/11 thread yet and so I'm assuming the issue/topic hasn't been discussed, but being new, that may not be the case.

In other words, you came here, not to discuss LDS culture, thought, belief, or practice, but to tout your conspiracy theories.

What possible useful function could that serve except to make the rest of us look bat-guano crazy for entertaining your particular political conceit?

[selek]

Don't misunderstand me- I welcome your participation on these boards.

I simply wonder what you hope to accomplish with this topic (and how it relates to the Mormon Church, Mormon people, a/o Gospel of Jesus Christ).

[Guest]

With my mod hat on, I will say that I can't see any site rules broken in the OP, and it is appropriately placed in the Current Events section.

Taking it off, I am in this camp:

one of those who thinks anyone who is skeptical of the official (reports) is a tinfoil hat wearer?

I will add as a poster with a right to her opinions that I also feel that 9/11 conspiracy theorists are haters of our military and bereft of patriotism. Generally speaking.

[estradling75]

Welcome to the site Airwolf84... You've picked an interesting way to make an introduction.

In addition to what Ewyn said with her mod hat on I would like to add... This is the internet and we see all kinds of people... Several of which claim to know the truth about various subjects. Because of this we have a very simple standard. Those making the claims have the burden of proof. Which means no one here has to prove you wrong. You have to prove that you are right.

So remember that if you find someone interested in engaging you on the subject. Good luck and again welcome to the forums

Edited April 4, 2013 by estradling75

[Airwolf84]

Welcome to the site Airwolf84... You've picked an interesting way to make an introduction.

In addition to what Ewyn said with her mod hat on I would like to add... This is the internet and we see all kinds of people... Several of which claim to know the truth about various subjects. Because of this we have a very simple standard. Those making the claims have the burden of proof. Which means no one here has to prove you wrong. You have to prove that you are right.

So remember that if you find someone interested in engaging you on the subject. Good luck and again welcome to the forums

Thank you for the warm welcome estradling75 and for being rational and open-minded about this issue!:) The reason I brougt this up rather abruptly as my first post is because there are a lot of LDS members right now who are unaware to what is really going on with our country politically, militarily and financially and especially with regard to what happened in our nation on 9/11/01. Let me assure and correct those who are of the belief that anyone questioning the events of 9/11 are NOT unpatriotic, hateful of their country, conspiracy theorists or anything of the sort - in fact, just the opposite - wasn't it Thomas Jefferson who said that dissent was the greatest form of patriotism?

For those unaware of the truth, in a nutshell, the World Trade Center Towers (1 & 2) were demolished in a highly unconventional, powerful and sophisticated fashion with a very high tech military-grade incendiary called nano-thermate (along with thermite) since the buildings had become antiquated, financial liabilities that were money-suckers laden with asbestos:

9-11 Research: Asbestos in the WTC

9-11 Research: Aluminothermic Residues

As a matter of fact, the individual who discovered what was responsible for the towers' demise was Dr. Steven Jones of Brigham Young University, a physics Professor and a devout member of the church and true patriot:

Dr. Steven E. Jones

The owner of the WTC complex, Larry Silverstein, coincidentally took out a massive insurance policy against 'terrorist attack' shortly after acquiring the buildings from the NY Port Authority in the spring of 2001. Instead of facing a $2 BILLION asbestos rennovation setback, he collected $4.5 BILLION on the destruction of the buildings.

The planes were basically the cover for their demolitions. Several key members of the Bush administration had been seeking a way for the U.S. to impose its military might on the middle east because of the tremendous financial opportunities many in his administration would reap from defense and re-construction contracts, the exploitation of natural energy resources in the middle east (oil & gas) for big energy companies, the construction of a massive oil and gas pipeline from the Caspian Sea through Afghanistan (which the Taliban wouldn't allow pre 9/11), drastically increasing the drug (opium) trade in Afghanistan to keep millions flowing through the CIA to Wall Street and the big banks and wartime profiteering owing to ties to the military-industrial complex by highly corrupt and evil individuals like **** Cheney, Don Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz. Wanna know why the plan was concocted?

Project for the New American Century - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Later that night in the evening of 9/11, building 7 was completely demolished which destroyed the investigations and records of almost a thousand case files involving massive financial criminal activity by companies like Enron's $65 BILLION electricity swindle & WorldCom's collapse (which led directly to the White House) as well as other investigations into fraud, racketeering and extortion ongoing between Washington, the big banks and Wall Street.

9-11 Research: 7 World Trade Center

The Pentagon was struck for the same reason... an investigative arm of the Navy along with other civilian Accountants and Auditors were looking into the disappearance of $2.3 TRILLION dollars that had gone 'missing' and their offices were located in the section that was hit - all of the evidence, records, case files and computers/servers in the area were destroyed:

The War On Waste - CBS News

9-11 Research: Missing Trillions

Meanwhile, flight 93 was shot down over Pennsylvania since the passengers had rushed the cockpit and had managed to compromise its mission which was to hit building 7 in New York in order to justify its demolition as well:

9-11 Research: Missing Trillions

So there you have it in a nutshell. I've even pieced together a documentary film about the truth - it's about 2 hours long for anyone interested. Needless to say, we are the terrorists, not some camel jockeys living out of caves in Afghanistan and the true motives for 9/11 were ten-fold:

1. Money/wartime profiteering

2. To cover up massive financial criminal activity within our political and financial system

3. More power over the people of the U.S. by shredding the Constitution and transforming the U.S. into a police state

4. Control of middle east natural energy resources

5. Construction of planned pipeline projects previously denied to our big energy corporations by the Taliban in Afhhanistan

6. Increasing the production/output of opium in Afghanistan since the Taliban had cracked down it for religious reasons

7. Ousting regimes (Saddam in Iraq) that were hostile to our big corporations and the petro-dollar

8. Setting up a buffer for Israel by establishing countless military bases in the middle east for positioning on the global chess board

9. Creating an environment of hate in the U.S. for middle east religions to gain support for the so-called 'wars'

10. Giving the U.S. military-industrial complex a blank check from the American people

Here's a snipit from President Dwight D. Eisenhower's farewell address from 1961:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military%E2%80%93industrial_complex

A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction...

This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence — economic, political, even spiritual — is felt in every city, every statehouse, every office of the federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society. In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes.

To conclude, I ask anyone who has eyes to see... is the following image a photo of a building collapsing due to gravity... or a building being blown to kingdom come:

Edited April 4, 2013 by Airwolf84

[LittleWyvern]

Not to be too dismissive, but if you want to discuss 9/11 conspiracy theories there's probably much better boards out there for that purpose. You're free to post anything that follows the rules, but this board is mostly devoted to the discussion of the LDS Church and the Gospel of Christ. You may not find very many people interested in talking about conspiracy theories here, but you're free to post about it if that's what you like. Just... don't expect a very productive discussion about it. :)

[Leah]

Thank you for the warm welcome estradling75 and for being rational and open-minded about this issue!:) The reason I brougt this up rather abruptly as my first post is because there are a lot of LDS members right now who are unaware to what is really going on with our country politically, militarily and financially and especially with regard to what happened in our nation on 9/11/01. Let me assure and correct those who are of the belief that anyone questioning the events of 9/11 are NOT unpatriotic, hateful of their country, conspiracy theorists or anything of the sort - in fact, just the opposite - wasn't it Thomas Jefferson who said that dissent was the greatest form of patriotism?

For those unaware of the truth, in a nutshell, the World Trade Center Towers (1 & 2) were demolished in a highly unconventional, powerful and sophisticated fashion with a very high tech military-grade incendiary called nano-thermate (along with thermite) since the buildings had become antiquated, financial liabilities that were money-suckers laden with asbestos:

9-11 Research: Asbestos in the WTC

9-11 Research: Aluminothermic Residues

As a matter of fact, the individual who discovered what was responsible for the towers' demise was Dr. Steven Jones of Brigham Young University, a physics Professor and a devout member of the church and true patriot:

Dr. Steven E. Jones

The owner of the WTC complex, Larry Silverstein, coincidentally took out a massive insurance policy against 'terrorist attack' shortly after acquiring the buildings from the NY Port Authority in the spring of 2001. Instead of facing a $2 BILLION asbestos rennovation setback, he collected $4.5 BILLION on the destruction of the buildings.

The planes were basically the cover for their demolitions. Several key members of the Bush administration had been seeking a way for the U.S. to impose its military might on the middle east because of the tremendous financial opportunities many in his administration would reap from defense and re-construction contracts, the exploitation of natural energy resources in the middle east (oil & gas) for big energy companies, the construction of a massive oil and gas pipeline from the Caspian Sea through Afghanistan (which the Taliban wouldn't allow pre 9/11), drastically increasing the drug (opium) trade in Afghanistan to keep millions flowing through the CIA to Wall Street and the big banks and wartime profiteering owing to ties to the military-industrial complex by highly corrupt and evil individuals like **** Cheney, Don Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz. Wanna know why the plan was concocted?

Project for the New American Century - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Later that night in the evening of 9/11, building 7 was completely demolished which destroyed the investigations and records of almost a thousand case files involving massive financial criminal activity by companies like Enron's $65 BILLION electricity swindle & WorldCom's collapse (which led directly to the White House) as well as other investigations into fraud, racketeering and extortion ongoing between Washington, the big banks and Wall Street.

9-11 Research: 7 World Trade Center

The Pentagon was struck for the same reason... an investigative arm of the Navy along with other civilian Accountants and Auditors were looking into the disappearance of $2.3 TRILLION dollars that had gone 'missing' and their offices were located in the section that was hit - all of the evidence, records, case files and computers/servers in the area were destroyed:

The War On Waste - CBS News

9-11 Research: Missing Trillions

Meanwhile, flight 93 was shot down over Pennsylvania since the passengers had rushed the cockpit and had managed to compromise its mission which was to hit building 7 in New York in order to justify its demolition as well:

9-11 Research: Missing Trillions

So there you have it in a nutshell. I've even pieced together a documentary film about the truth - it's about 2 hours long for anyone interested. Needless to say, we are the terrorists, not some camel jockeys living out of caves in Afghanistan and the true motives for 9/11 were ten-fold:

1. Money/wartime profiteering

2. To cover up massive financial criminal activity within our political and financial system

3. More power over the people of the U.S. by shredding the Constitution and transforming the U.S. into a police state

4. Control of middle east natural energy resources

5. Construction of planned pipeline projects previously denied to our big energy corporations by the Taliban in Afhhanistan

6. Increasing the production/output of opium in Afghanistan since the Taliban had cracked down it for religious reasons

7. Ousting regimes (Saddam in Iraq) that were hostile to our big corporations and the petro-dollar

8. Setting up a buffer for Israel by establishing countless military bases in the middle east for positioning on the global chess board

9. Creating an environment of hate in the U.S. for middle east religions to gain support for the so-called 'wars'

10. Giving the U.S. military-industrial complex a blank check from the American people

Here's a snipit from President Dwight D. Eisenhower's farewell address from 1961:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military%E2%80%93industrial_complex

To conclude, I ask anyone who has eyes to see... is the following image a photo of a building collapsing due to gravity... or a building being blown to kingdom come:

I don't normally respond to conspiracy addicts, but....what leads you to believe specifically that LDS in particular are somehow ignorant about what happened on 9/11? What's the importance in targeting that particular demographic? What studies and data can you cite?

Also...what are your credentials and experience in analyzing photographs of collapsing buildings? Can you explain to us exactly how you - from your own expertise and experience - can make the determination you did from that photograph?

[bytor2112]

Not sure about Sept. 11......but, does anybody really believe we landed on the moon???? Seriously??

[selek]

Thank you for the warm welcome estradling75 and for being rational and open-minded about this issue!

So....only those who are willing to play along with your psuedo-scientific and anti-government rants are "rational" and "open-minded"?

Those of us who happen to agree with the vast majority of the scientific community (who in turn disagree with your methods and conclusions) are not "rational" and "open-minded"?

:) The reason I brougt this up rather abruptly as my first post is because there are a lot of LDS members right now who are unaware to what is really going on with our country politically, militarily and financially and especially with regard to what happened in our nation on 9/11/01.

This is an arrogant, and somewhat bigoted assumption.

There is much hubris involved in the notion that you are far more "enlightened" and "open-minded" than the many millions of Latter-day Saints who don't agree with you.

In point of fact, there are quite a few (a great many of whom wore the uniform and put themselves in harm's way) who have followed this "controversy" and happen to be very well-versed in the political, scientific, and strategic implications: and simply do not find your cut-and-past assertions credible.

Whom then shall I trust? The honorable and integrity-ridden Latter-day Saint who offered to lay down his life in my defense? Or the anonymous fringe borderline paranoiac peddling the notion that "everyone who disagrees with him is either a dupe or part of the conspiracy"?

Let me assure and correct those who are of the belief that anyone questioning the events of 9/11 are NOT unpatriotic, hateful of their country

On the contrary, this is a red-herring. No one has argued any such thing.

It is not your patriotism we question, it is your credulousness.

.. conspiracy theorists...

On the contrary, that is PRECISELY what you are. You are here peddling the long-discredited notion that a government conspiracy was involved in the destruction of the World Trade Center Towers and with the attack on the Pentagon, and that every major, credible, scientific, engineering, and media organization conspired with them to keep that truth from the American people.

You may not like being exposed as a "conspiracy theorist", but you cannot escape the fact that is, by definition, what you are doing.

If the shoe fits...

Most of your quotes and links (and all of the salient ones) come from the same website.

It took me fifteen seconds on Google (I both type slowly and read what I link to) to find nearly all of your talking points debunked.

9/11 Conspiracy Theories - Debunking the Myths - World Trade Center - Pentagon - Flight 93 - Popular Mechanics

Debunking 911 Conspiracy Theories and Controlled Demolition Homepage

AE911Truth.INFO. Answering the questions of Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth

Debunking 9/11 Conspiracy Theories and Controlled Demolition - World Trade Center 7, Building 7

wasn't it Thomas Jefferson who said that dissent was the greatest form of patriotism?

No. Like so much else you've gotten wrong, in point of fact, it was NOT.

Misattributed: 'Dissent Is the Highest Form of Patriotism'

Edited April 5, 2013 by selek

[dahlia]

I will add as a poster with a right to her opinions that I also feel that 9/11 conspiracy theorists are haters of our military and bereft of patriotism. Generally speaking.

Yup. And using Jon Stewart, a comedian, as a news source would get an 'F' on any paper submitted to me.

[selek]

Yup. And using Jon Stewart, a comedian, as a news source would get an 'F' on any paper submitted to me.

You mean you wouldn't dock him for a paper that used only a single, unsubstantiated, and highly questionable internet source for most of its premises?

I'm shocked!

[annewandering]

This subject has been discussed on this site before. It got about the same response. Jon Steward is a better source of news than a lot of supposedly real newscasters. :) He seems to find out about whats going on so he can comment on it in a humorous way which is a lot more than some of the 'real' newscasters.

[BadWolf]

What I like best about that list:

Countries who are, by international convention (end of WWII) PROHIBITED from maintaining a standing army/navy beyond token force... Make up a bulk of it. Sumimasen. Then, lets add in the former USSR (who has been selling off its armaments at bakesales for 20 years, trying to but bread), a few States which are known for using mercenaries or allies almost exclusively (2 different budgets), and PARTS of the Commonwealth (Um. UK & Australia? Beg pardon?). Then, once we've done that, lets put the cherry on the sundae by adding China. Who a) doesn't actually publish budgets with any kind of veracity, and b) has millions of workers from slave labor, and c) -but wait, there's more- exchanges hundreds of millions if not hundreds of billions billions in bribes & quid pro quo. SURE you can build a car factory here, just make sure to also produce x number of jet frames per month & we won't seize your company for the state.

China. Bleeding CHINA is on the list? Like knowing what their ACTUAL defense capability/budget/structure is like isn't on the most wanted list of, you know, the entire rest of the quaking world.

I looooooooove Jon Stewart. There's just so may LAYERS of funny in his show. I mean, at least Tgeyre weren't insulting about it by adding Micronesia or Malta. But wheeeeee. You know they had fun generating "which countries will be the funniest to watch people take their 'budget' seriously?"

[pam]

Actually there have been a couple of threads on this in the past:

http://www.lds.net/forums/current-events/20362-scientific-report-wtc.html

http://www.lds.net/forums/current-events/10708-professor-steve-jones-9-11-a.html

[Dravin]

So....only those who are willing to play along with your psuedo-scientific and anti-government rants are "rational" and "open-minded"?

Over the years I've come to the realization that discussing things with a conspiracy theorist is eerily like talking with a rabid anti-Mormon. The tactics and nature of reasoning tends towards commonalities.

[rameumptom]

AirWolf, I was in the Air Force at the time, and from some of the closed briefings I was involved in, I can assure you that the radical Arabs brought down the towers and not some US government cabal.

That said, the neo-cons definitely took quick advantage of the crisis (like the Democrats have taken hold of our current financial crisis) to vastly increase the military and go places we should not be in.

[rameumptom]

You mean you wouldn't dock him for a paper that used only a single, unsubstantiated, and highly questionable internet source for most of its premises?

I'm shocked!

But "they can't put anything on the Internet that isn't true."

-stupid chick on the State Farm commercial

[MorningStar]

Do put it mildly, I think these theories are ridiculous.

[NeuroTypical]

Wow. A 9/11 thread, twelve years later. Airwolf - why now? Are you part of a new generation just learning about it? Or have you been doing this for years?

Refreshing to take a break from hearing about how the govt. caused the ammo shortage because they wanna disarm us and arm the homeland security people to herd us into camps.

[mirkwood]

I had a law enforcement agency give me some .223 and 9mm ammunition recently. Hmmmm...