Double Standard

[Guest antishock82003]

On another thread, one that was closed, Jenda said, "Good example, you two, of why we meant it when we said we wanted to steer the topics away from personalities. Now this thread is closed."

I notice no threads have been closed when the Mormons are being confrontational, threatening, or instigative...YET, when someone like myself defends himself the board is closed and a comment is directed at both parties. The problem is that no action is taken until an "anti" like myself takes action, then I'm condemned for doing it.

I didn't threaten Paul. Jenda, Peace, AFDaw, Behunin, and others have been very instigative in their remarks. They're not dealing with the topics...rather they stray by attacking perceived character flaws. I don't really mind their behavior, but I want to raise the Mods' awareness to include both sides when they feel the need to cast blame. 'Nuf said.

[Jenda]

No action was taken because I didn't see the interaction till 9pm this evening (my time), and by that time, both of you had posted already. And when I said "You two", I meant you two. It is nothing against anyone of a particular denomination, LDS or not LDS (I'm sure you remember that I am not LDS, right?).

"I think you're mean."

"Well, I think you're mean."

C'mon, how much more childish can you get?

[Behunin]

Please answer this: Why do you post on a message board that is LDS? It is called LDS talk forum.

Is it your intent to be mean? If not, then what is you intent?

I am curious to know why.

[Maureen]

Originally posted by Behunin@Jan 19 2004, 09:02 AM

Please answer this: Why do you post on a message board that is LDS? It is called LDS talk forum.

I'm sure this question was directed at AS, but I'll answer for myself.

I post at ldstalk because I have an interest in the Mormon religion and history. I have an LDS friend and LDS in-laws. I almost joined the LDS church so I still have a connection with it because of how it has effected my life. I don't share in some of the LDS beliefs but I do enjoy the history and a good debate now and then, and sometimes LDS views on certain religious questions.

M.

[Behunin]

Originally posted by Maureen+Jan 19 2004, 10:18 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Maureen @ Jan 19 2004, 10:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Behunin@Jan 19 2004, 09:02 AM

Please answer this: Why do you post on a message board that is LDS?  It is called LDS talk forum.

I'm sure this question was directed at AS, but I'll answer for myself.

I post at ldstalk because I have an interest in the Mormon religion and history. I have an LDS friend and LDS in-laws. I almost joined the LDS church so I still have a connection with it because of how it has effected my life. I don't share in some of the LDS beliefs but I do enjoy the history and a good debate now and then, and sometimes LDS views on certain religious questions.

M.

Maureen,

Thank you Thank you. I appreciate your honest answer.

Your interest in the LDS religion is with good intentions. I have the feeling others do not share your good intentions. :)

[Blessed]

I am here because my friend invited me.

I enjoy discussion boards that engage in the fullness of the gospel and I enjoy meeting people from around the country... even the not so pleasant types.

I have learned a lot and I do mean A LOT about the unique ties we have in one way or another even when we are miles apart either in beliefs or just distance.

Blessed

[Guest antishock82003]

Originally posted by Behunin@Jan 19 2004, 09:02 AM

Please answer this: Why do you post on a message board that is LDS? It is called LDS talk forum.

Is it your intent to be mean? If not, then what is you intent?

I am curious to know why.

Because I'm ethnically Mormon. My parents were TBM. I was BIC. Served a mission, married in the temple, held callings, paid tithing etc etc...I have an interest in things Mormon because that is what I knew and surrounded myself with for the better part of 30 years.

LDSTalk to me signifies talking about things LDS. It doesn't mean that we have to have a RS meeting and everyone should exchange platitudes. It means discussing, debating, dialoguing about things having to do with the Mormon Church, culture, and history.

If it seems like I can't leave the Church alone...you're right. It didn't leave me alone for 30 years, and now it won't leave my family alone. Someday, when I get tired of this place, or the Church in general...maybe I'll quit posting on Mormon related BB's. It hasn't happened yet, and to be honest with you I don't know when and if it will happen.

Maybe, when my ex-wife has her time with the kids, when the day comes that I don't have to worry about my kids being taken to the Church on Sundays, saying Mormon-esque prayers, being pressured to get baptized, have Mormon faith promoting stories read to them, etc etc...is the day I won't feel a need to share a counter-view to other members in whatever form. Or maybe not...I just don't know...

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by Jenda@Jan 18 2004, 09:51 PM

No action was taken because I didn't see the interaction till 9pm this evening (my time), and by that time, both of you had posted already. And when I said "You two", I meant you two. It is nothing against anyone of a particular denomination, LDS or not LDS (I'm sure you remember that I am not LDS, right?).

"I think you're mean."

"Well, I think you're mean."

C'mon, how much more childish can you get?

I think that you are mean? Really is that as bad as it got?

I don't think that it is necessary that we all agree on everything. What I do think is important is that if we don't agree that we don't have to bash someone else to make ourselves feel better. I think that when things arise like that we should simply agree to disagree. :)

Everyone who posts here is important to someone. How would we feel if someone we cared about was being bashed on a message board because of what they believe. With the rules being enforced, the only thing that could get out of hand is the degree of bashing and therefore feelings getting hurt. Behunin is right, what your intentions are weigh very heavily here. A gentle discussion comes across a lot differently then someone trying to hurt someone else. Part of being mature is NOT always having to be right.

One my license plate of my car I have this written URRIGHT. I have read many books by Dr. Wayne Dyer. He has said that it is better to say "You Are Right" about that then to argue about anything at all. Saying you are right doesn't necessarily make them right but it ends the battle. Another thing that I have learned is that when you let another person upset you, you are giving your power away to them. Things are things that I TRY to follow but I do get carried away at times as well.

[Jenda]

We just want a board where everyone feels invited to participate in the discussion, whether they are LDS, other Christian, agnostic, atheist, Buddhist, WHATEVER (as Biz used to say ) but it is an LDS board, meaning that it is these sets of values that will govern the way the board is run. We posted the rules and code of conduct at the top of the board when we purged it so everyone could (again) read them and (hopefully) stick to them. And one of the things we ask is that you leave personalities out of the discussion.

Thanks.

[Behunin]

Originally posted by antishock82003+Jan 19 2004, 10:48 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (antishock82003 @ Jan 19 2004, 10:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Behunin@Jan 19 2004, 09:02 AM

Please answer this: Why do you post on a message board that is LDS?  It is called LDS talk forum.

Is it your intent to be mean?  If not, then what is you intent? 

I am curious to know why.

Because I'm ethnically Mormon. My parents were TBM. I was BIC. Served a mission, married in the temple, held callings, paid tithing etc etc...I have an interest in things Mormon because that is what I knew and surrounded myself with for the better part of 30 years.

LDSTalk to me signifies talking about things LDS. It doesn't mean that we have to have a RS meeting and everyone should exchange platitudes. It means discussing, debating, dialoguing about things having to do with the Mormon Church, culture, and history.

If it seems like I can't leave the Church alone...you're right. It didn't leave me alone for 30 years, and now it won't leave my family alone. Someday, when I get tired of this place, or the Church in general...maybe I'll quit posting on Mormon related BB's. It hasn't happened yet, and to be honest with you I don't know when and if it will happen.

Maybe, when my ex-wife has her time with the kids, when the day comes that I don't have to worry about my kids being taken to the Church on Sundays, saying Mormon-esque prayers, being pressured to get baptized, have Mormon faith promoting stories read to them, etc etc...is the day I won't feel a need to share a counter-view to other members in whatever form. Or maybe not...I just don't know...

Thank you for being honest. I understand you better now. I don't necessarily agree you, but nonetheless, I understand you a little better.

Contention bothers me. No, it does more than that, it hurts.

As I read your post, I got the feeling that the church has been shoved down your throat for many years. Sometimes I wonder if orthodox mormon parents realize that their overprotection can turn away their children.

If Heavenly Father will not force his children to heaven, then we shouldn't either.

AS, I enjoy a good discussion as long as it does not envolve being mean, contentious, or disparaging to anyone.

They is never any good reason to be that way.

So as long as your intentions are good, I hope we can be friends :)

[Behunin]

Originally posted by Strawberry Fields+Jan 19 2004, 11:13 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Strawberry Fields @ Jan 19 2004, 11:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Jenda@Jan 18 2004, 09:51 PM

No action was taken because I didn't see the interaction till 9pm this evening (my time), and by that time, both of you had posted already.  And when I said "You two", I meant you two.  It is nothing against anyone of a particular denomination, LDS or not LDS (I'm sure you remember that I am not LDS, right?).

"I think you're mean."

"Well, I think you're mean."

C'mon, how much more childish can you get?

I think that you are mean? Really is that as bad as it got?

I don't think that it is necessary that we all agree on everything. What I do think is important is that if we don't agree that we don't have to bash someone else to make ourselves feel better. I think that when things arise like that we should simply agree to disagree. :)

Everyone who posts here is important to someone. How would we feel if someone we cared about was being bashed on a message board because of what they believe. With the rules being enforced, the only thing that could get out of hand is the degree of bashing and therefore feelings getting hurt. Behunin is right, what your intentions are weigh very heavily here. A gentle discussion comes across a lot differently then someone trying to hurt someone else. Part of being mature is NOT always having to be right.

One my license plate of my car I have this written URRIGHT. I have read many books by Dr. Wayne Dyer. He has said that it is better to say "You Are Right" about that then to argue about anything at all. Saying you are right doesn't necessarily make them right but it ends the battle. Another thing that I have learned is that when you let another person upset you, you are giving your power away to them. Things are things that I TRY to follow but I do get carried away at times as well.

DITTO!!!!

[Tr2]

I notice no threads have been closed when the Mormons are being confrontational, threatening, or instigative...YET, when someone like myself defends himself the board is closed and a comment is directed at both parties. The problem is that no action is taken until an "anti" like myself takes action, then I'm condemned for doing it.

That's easy. It's because there are two completely different sets of rules.

There is a good question I'm going to ask: Can a mormon do wrong in the eyes of another mormon? If so, show me where!

[Guest lt]

YEA!!!!!!!!!!!!! they can...If one started swearing or posting things that

that were hurtful to others, the church etc...Everyone on here has the same things being expected of them.

The only people complaining are the ones who either can't (Chill out and stay out of trouble.....) Or the ones who come to just simply (Bash...) Can't we just have some good clean fun?

[Guest antishock82003]

Originally posted by LaurelTree@Jan 21 2004, 09:41 AM

YEA!!!!!!!!!!!!! they can...If one started swearing or posting things that

that were hurtful to others, the church etc...Everyone on here has the same things being expected of them.

The only people complaining are the ones who either can't (Chill out and stay out of trouble.....) Or the ones who come to just simply (Bash...) Can't we just have some good clean fun?

That's not True. Once again LT uses selective observation. Plenty of Mo's were complaining and still complain when I question there doctrine and history and policies. They whine that it's "anti" Mormon and that I'm "bashing" them.

Just be fair. If a Mormon instigates make sure that you treat the Mormon the same as you would treat a non-Mormon. Then we will all respect each other and have hugs and dance.

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Tr2@Jan 21 2004, 09:26 AM

I notice no threads have been closed when the Mormons are being confrontational, threatening, or instigative...YET, when someone like myself defends himself the board is closed and a comment is directed at both parties. The problem is that no action is taken until an "anti" like myself takes action, then I'm condemned for doing it.

That's easy. It's because there are two completely different sets of rules.

There is a good question I'm going to ask: Can a mormon do wrong in the eyes of another mormon? If so, show me where!

Just look for Kevins comments to me...LOL

[Jenda]

Originally posted by antishock82003+Jan 21 2004, 10:39 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (antishock82003 @ Jan 21 2004, 10:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--LaurelTree@Jan 21 2004, 09:41 AM

YEA!!!!!!!!!!!!! they can...If one started swearing or posting things that

that were hurtful to others, the church etc...Everyone on here has the same things being expected of them.

The only people complaining are the ones who either can't (Chill out and stay out of trouble.....) Or the ones who come to just simply (Bash...) Can't we just have some good clean fun?

That's not True. Once again LT uses selective observation. Plenty of Mo's were complaining and still complain when I question there doctrine and history and policies. They whine that it's "anti" Mormon and that I'm "bashing" them.

Just be fair. If a Mormon instigates make sure that you treat the Mormon the same as you would treat a non-Mormon. Then we will all respect each other and have hugs and dance.

AS,

I have been as fair to one as I have to the other. I closed the thread you were questioning when I saw the exchange (and it was after you both posted), I have edited mormon's posts as well as non-mormons.

The bashing comes when you pull things off of anti sites and post them verbatim and don't add any of your own thoughts. If you see a topic on another site that you want to discuss (and discuss is the key word here), bring it here, but use your own words. Don't let others do your talking for you. If you are doing it just for the sake of making the LDS (or any other) church look bad, it is bashing.

[Behunin]

Originally posted by antishock82003@Jan 21 2004, 11:39 AM

Just be fair. If a Mormon instigates make sure that you treat the Mormon the same as you would treat a non-Mormon. Then we will all respect each other and have hugs and dance.

Sounds good to me.

[Guest lt]

Same here jenda...If I see a mormon get out of hand because of an anti I will simply step in and ask it to be stopped and visa versa. We are all here to learn and get to know each other as well as to have a great time

[Guest antishock82003]

Originally posted by Jenda+Jan 21 2004, 11:21 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jenda @ Jan 21 2004, 11:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -antishock82003@Jan 21 2004, 10:39 AM

<!--QuoteBegin--LaurelTree@Jan 21 2004, 09:41 AM

YEA!!!!!!!!!!!!! they can...If one started swearing or posting things that

that were hurtful to others, the church etc...Everyone on here has the same things being expected of them.

The only people complaining are the ones who either can't (Chill out and stay out of trouble.....) Or the ones who come to just simply (Bash...) Can't we just have some good clean fun?

That's not True. Once again LT uses selective observation. Plenty of Mo's were complaining and still complain when I question there doctrine and history and policies. They whine that it's "anti" Mormon and that I'm "bashing" them.

Just be fair. If a Mormon instigates make sure that you treat the Mormon the same as you would treat a non-Mormon. Then we will all respect each other and have hugs and dance.

AS,

I have been as fair to one as I have to the other. I closed the thread you were questioning when I saw the exchange (and it was after you both posted), I have edited mormon's posts as well as non-mormons.

The bashing comes when you pull things off of anti sites and post them verbatim and don't add any of your own thoughts. If you see a topic on another site that you want to discuss (and discuss is the key word here), bring it here, but use your own words. Don't let others do your talking for you. If you are doing it just for the sake of making the LDS (or any other) church look bad, it is bashing.

Fine. Then don't post any scriptures, or quotes from religious figures. Sounds good to me.

[Guest Yediyd]

Originally posted by Jenda@Jan 18 2004, 09:51 PM

No action was taken because I didn't see the interaction till 9pm this evening (my time), and by that time, both of you had posted already. And when I said "You two", I meant you two. It is nothing against anyone of a particular denomination, LDS or not LDS (I'm sure you remember that I am not LDS, right?).

"I think you're mean."

"Well, I think you're mean."

C'mon, how much more childish can you get?

I think that you are mean? Really is that as bad as it got?

I don't think that it is necessary that we all agree on everything. What I do think is important is that if we don't agree that we don't have to bash someone else to make ourselves feel better. I think that when things arise like that we should simply agree to disagree. :)

Everyone who posts here is important to someone. How would we feel if someone we cared about was being bashed on a message board because of what they believe. With the rules being enforced, the only thing that could get out of hand is the degree of bashing and therefore feelings getting hurt. Behunin is right, what your intentions are weigh very heavily here. A gentle discussion comes across a lot differently then someone trying to hurt someone else. Part of being mature is NOT always having to be right.

One my license plate of my car I have this written URRIGHT. I have read many books by Dr. Wayne Dyer. He has said that it is better to say "You Are Right" about that then to argue about anything at all. Saying you are right doesn't necessarily make them right but it ends the battle. Another thing that I have learned is that when you let another person upset you, you are giving your power away to them. Things are things that I TRY to follow but I do get carried away at times as well.

well said, Straw.

[CrimsonKairos]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.

If someone is wrong and I know it, it might not be worth my while to argue with them. The saying goes, "Would you rather be happy, or right?"

I don't necessarily think I'd tell them, "You're right," if they're not, but I get the point of why someone would say that, and defusing contention is always a good thing.

[Jason]

I miss Antishock.

[Snow]

For what it is worth,

Antishock got rebaptised last May, got reassigned to Dusseldorf Germany where he met a German girl named Dietlinde and is currently serving as 2nd councilor in Altstadt 3rd Ward. He and Dietlinde, phebotomist, hope to be sealed in the temple by this time next year.

[Jason]

Snow, are you actually being serious, or just entertaining us with a story?

[Traveler]

This may or may not apply: I read an article a while back that 90% of blacks believe O.J. was innocent and framed. At the same time 90% of whites believe that O.J. was guilty and got off because of a slick lawyer.

What I found interesting is that the blacks and whites in the survey all got their information from the same source. One of my great lesions in life is that some things that seem so obvious to me others would stand as it seems in the brightness of noon day and declare it night.

To be honest I have come to the conclusion that with few exception, anyone that is angry, has a chip on their shoulder, wants to “even” the playing field and just get even for all the bad and injustice done to them – Well most likely they are wrong in their view and even if they are right they have no intension of making any thing better. Sort of – my parade was rained upon so I will rain on everybody else’s parade.

On the other hand someone that has been through a lot and has been wronged on every side – yet they still offer a kind hand to others and soft words of kind encouragement. I have come to the conclusion that they are most likely right in their opinion even if their logic is horrible and they can’t seem to get their facts straight. (Though I really think if we look closely without bias we will find they are very good about facts). So what is the engine of your bias?

Someone once told me that in getting angry and insisting on getting even is like taking poison and thinking and hoping the other person will die.

The Traveler