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Is It Alright If Lds Member's Drink Decaffinated Coffee?

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Well, we are to avoid the appearance of evil. Also, coffee and tea were mentioned in the WoW because at that time they didn't have Mountain Dew and Pepsi. Can you imagine what people would have thought if Father had listed all the things he knew would have caffeine in them? Addiction is what the issue is. The war in heaven was about agency and when we are addicted to something we have given up agency when we are controlled by a need for a substance. Decaf is only 97% caffeine free. It is also akin to keeping one foot in the door to temptation. Father says it isn't necessary for him to govern us in all things

We are to pray and ponder these things. We aren't to look for justification and rationalization to do what he has asked us not to do.

We can argue Spirit of the Law and Letter of the Law all day long but addiction is why we are to avoid caffeine. I would be concerned about anyone seeing me drinking decaf and wondering why an LDS person is drinking coffee. Being a good example. Maybe ask her to do what the Savior would do or what he would have her do.

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The WoW does not state "coffee or tea". It does, however, mention "hot drinks." It is our assumption that hot drinks is to be interpreted as coffee, but only the Spirit can reveal that to an individual.

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The WoW does not state "coffee or tea". It does, however, mention "hot drinks." It is our assumption that hot drinks is to be interpreted as coffee, but only the Spirit can reveal that to an individual.

hmm :hmmm: Does this mean I can eat the Coffee ice cream my wife mistakenly bought me a few days ago? :wow:

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Well, we are to avoid the appearance of evil. Also, coffee and tea were mentioned in the WoW because at that time they didn't have Mountain Dew and Pepsi. Can you imagine what people would have thought if Father had listed all the things he knew would have caffeine in them? Addiction is what the issue is. The war in heaven was about agency and when we are addicted to something we have given up agency when we are controlled by a need for a substance. Decaf is only 97% caffeine free. It is also akin to keeping one foot in the door to temptation. Father says it isn't necessary for him to govern us in all things

We are to pray and ponder these things. We aren't to look for justification and rationalization to do what he has asked us not to do.

We can argue Spirit of the Law and Letter of the Law all day long but addiction is why we are to avoid caffeine. I would be concerned about anyone seeing me drinking decaf and wondering why an LDS person is drinking coffee. Being a good example. Maybe ask her to do what the Savior would do or what he would have her do.

Ok so coffee and tea are both mentioned in the WoW ok,so if a person drinks coffee or tea that will keep them out of the temple right?? But if a person drinks coke,pepsi,mt.dew or any other cold caffeinated drink that wont keep them out of the temple? If thats the case then I think that's a double standard in our church(LDS)caffeine is caffeine no matter what form it happen's to come in weather its in coffee,tea, or soda's. :hmmm: bluesaphires_n_diamonds

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Ok so coffee and tea are both mentioned in the WoW ok,so if a person drinks coffee or tea that will keep them out of the temple right?? But if a person drinks coke,pepsi,mt.dew or any other cold caffeinated drink that wont keep them out of the temple? If thats the case then I think that's a double standard in our church(LDS)caffeine is caffeine no matter what form it happen's to come in weather its in coffee,tea, or soda's. :hmmm: bluesaphires_n_diamonds

I found the perfect article for you located here:

http://www.fairlds.org/Misc/Word_of_Wisdom..._Hypocrisy.html

Ask the Apologist

Q. It seems confusing that Mormons won't drink caffeinated beverages like coffee and tea, but many have no problem with eating chocolate, drinking hot chocolate, colas, and other sources of caffeine. Can you explain the apparent hypocrisy?

A. (by Suzanne Armitage) Section 89 of the Doctrine & Covenants (D&C), also known as the Word of Wisdom, is a revelation appertaining to the health and strength of our physical bodies. The focus relative to this question is 'hot drinks' and caffeine, two separate items which, when lumped together as one, result in misconceptions concerning the Word of Wisdom.

And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly. (D&C 89:9)

As noted in the question, the confusion occurs when one misunderstands the Word of Wisdom. Some members of the Church as well as many non-members understand the Word of Wisdom, specifically the definition of 'hot drinks' mentioned in verse nine, this way:

Hot drinks = coffee and tea. Coffee and tea have relatively high levels of caffeine, therefore the reason LDS abstain from coffee and tea is because of the caffeine, therefore LDS abstain from all products containing caffeine, true?

False, actually. This presents a logical error, known as a fallacy of definition, because the definition is too broad. The official and correct definition of 'hot drinks'1 as found in the Word of Wisdom is simply this:

Hot drinks = coffee and tea.

The Word of Wisdom2 is a basic law of health, in other words, it is a good starting point. Add to this the "body is a temple" scripture3 found in the Bible and we begin to have a clearer understanding of the Church's emphasis on being vigilant of what we ingest and on the wellbeing of our bodies. The standard works4 have many scriptures admonishing us not to defile the mind or the body. "The promises associated with the Word of Wisdom are considered both temporal and spiritual. The temporal promise has been interpreted as better health, and the spiritual promise as a closer relationship to God."5

Latter-day Saints, with the Word of Wisdom as a foundation and mindful of both the scriptures and the counsel of a living prophet, are encouraged to personalize their health regimen and-just like anyone else who chooses to live a healthy lifestyle-quickly realize that there are many paths and options. At this juncture, members of the Church decide for themselves if they will follow the basic parameters of the Word of Wisdom (that is, to simply abstain from coffee, tea, alcohol and tobacco), or if they will go the extra mile, for example by not drinking any caffeinated drinks or eating any caffeinated products whatsoever. In the Church, we refer to this as living according to what the Holy Spirit has revealed to each of us, or in this instance, living according to the spirit of the Word of Wisdom.6

The Word of Wisdom contains two kinds of instructions: (1) prohibitions, and (2) counsel. The prohibitions are binding upon the Saints; the counsel, precisely because it is counsel, is up to each of us as individuals. The prohibition in question is against 'hot drinks.' The Church has, as a body, accepted that the hot drinks in question are coffee and tea. The high caffeine content of these drinks has been widely discussed, and is generally accepted, as a likely explanation for the prohibition; but this explanation has, of itself, no binding doctrinal force.7

A personalized interpretation of the Word of Wisdom oftentimes adds to the confusion of "what is the Word of Wisdom." Our personal interpretation should not be forced on other members, nor should it be promoted as THE Word of Wisdom.8 It isn't THE Word of Wisdom; it is YOUR personalized version that you view as consonant with the spirit of the Word of Wisdom. Keeping this in mind, when someone informs us that "THE Word of Wisdom says don't drink caffeinated beverages," he/she is incorrect.

"But," some may ask, "what about what President Hinckley said on the 'Larry King Show' and '60 Minutes'?" President Hinckley's acknowledgement of his interviewer's leading questions is not indicative of a shift in formal Church policy. It doesn't work that way. If the President of the Church ever wants to formally include caffeine in the Word of Wisdom, he will do so through established Church channels, not by a media interview.

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<div class='quotemain'>

Well, we are to avoid the appearance of evil. Also, coffee and tea were mentioned in the WoW because at that time they didn't have Mountain Dew and Pepsi. Can you imagine what people would have thought if Father had listed all the things he knew would have caffeine in them? Addiction is what the issue is. The war in heaven was about agency and when we are addicted to something we have given up agency when we are controlled by a need for a substance. Decaf is only 97% caffeine free. It is also akin to keeping one foot in the door to temptation. Father says it isn't necessary for him to govern us in all things

We are to pray and ponder these things. We aren't to look for justification and rationalization to do what he has asked us not to do.

We can argue Spirit of the Law and Letter of the Law all day long but addiction is why we are to avoid caffeine. I would be concerned about anyone seeing me drinking decaf and wondering why an LDS person is drinking coffee. Being a good example. Maybe ask her to do what the Savior would do or what he would have her do.

Ok so coffee and tea are both mentioned in the WoW ok,so if a person drinks coffee or tea that will keep them out of the temple right?? But if a person drinks coke,pepsi,mt.dew or any other cold caffeinated drink that wont keep them out of the temple? If thats the case then I think that's a double standard in our church(LDS)caffeine is caffeine no matter what form it happen's to come in weather its in coffee,tea, or soda's. :hmmm: bluesaphires_n_diamonds

That's why Father says it isn't meet that he should govern us in all things. We know what teh answer is. He knows we know what the answer is. It is up to us to decide whether or not WE are going to partake of caffeine whether or not the RS prez or the Stake Prez drinks diet Pepsi. I'll bet the GA's don't drink anything with caffeine in it. In the end, it is Father we have to face. We have our agency to do as we choose. He says that we should reason these things out in our minds, not just give no thought except to ask him. In other words, he gave us intelligence, he would like us to use it. This is just a test, a preperatroy period for what is to come. Either way, even decaf coffee isn't a good thing if for nothing else, the appearance of drinking coffee. The hot drinks they had back then were coffee, tea, and very strong chocolate, which we know has caffiene in it.

So I can justify and rationaize and drink cold espresso, right? I have been wasting all this time being tired when I could have been having iced coffee or iced tea? That must mean not hot herb teas either, or hot water, hot apple cider, hot lemoade for a sore throat: so any hot drink? I will have to tell my Gospel Doctrine class about this. No more struggling with trying to give of Pepsi, for a good friend of mine. Hey, thanks for that link. When it comes around to teaching teh WoW again that will come in darn handy. :sparklygrin:

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Can't drink coffee, but is it okay to drink decaf coffee?

Hmmm. Why not ask:

I know we're not supposed to have sex with anyone outside of marriage...but what if it's "dry sex" (a.k.a. Levi-lovin', et al). After all, it's not really sex...

:wacko:

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First of all, it is not the caffiene, it is the tanic acid that is the problem. But, that beside, we are commanded not to drink coffee and tea. Part of the WOW is the spirit of the law. We are also commanded in that same WOW to take care of ourselves and not let things enter our bodies that should not. I am sure that if drugs and the like had been around then, they would have been there too. Coke and Pepsi also were not there then, and I think the debate on those will go on for what seems like forever. Anything in access can be bad for us. Meat, ice cream, Milk, lettuce for some people, or anything else. It is a spiritual law between us and the Lord. Some things are spelled out specifically in the WOW, and those we abstain from regardless. Some are not, and those we have to use the brain God has given us and also consult with the Lord when something is in question.

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First of all, it is not the caffiene, it is the tanic acid that is the problem.

Don't eat berries, walnuts, pomegranates either then, if tannic acid is bad. Wonder why those items weren't banned in the WoW, if tannic acid is the culprit?

Berries and walnuts are in the top 10 list of healthiest foods to eat... but then, so is tea. Maybe this tannin isn't so bad after all!

http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/lf_hl_nutr...D_27396,00.html

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The WoW also says to use herbs in their season... and there are many herbal teas that are wonderful, so why would God say to use herbs, but then say not drink hot drinks.

Like I said, it should be revealed to the individual by the Spirit as to how to discern this revelation. IMHO

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First of all, it is not the caffiene, it is the tanic acid that is the problem. But, that beside, we are commanded not to drink coffee and tea. Part of the WOW is the spirit of the law. We are also commanded in that same WOW to take care of ourselves and not let things enter our bodies that should not. I am sure that if drugs and the like had been around then, they would have been there too. Coke and Pepsi also were not there then, and I think the debate on those will go on for what seems like forever. Anything in access can be bad for us. Meat, ice cream, Milk, lettuce for some people, or anything else. It is a spiritual law between us and the Lord. Some things are spelled out specifically in the WOW, and those we abstain from regardless. Some are not, and those we have to use the brain God has given us and also consult with the Lord when something is in question.

Tribune: So your telling me that it's NOT the caffiene that's in coffee or tea but its the tanic acid that is the problem..Did you know that "Tannic Acid" is in anything that is grown in the ground??? Such as beans,green bean's,pea's,carrot's,ect... Look in the dictionary,or encyclopedia what all contain's this acid is listed and believe me there are many more than what I just mentioned... I was raised LDS all my life but I have certin question's that bother me and I dont understand our church's reasoning to some of the question's I have it seem's that there is a double standard here... But thanks for your input. Bluesaphires_n_diamonds :unsure:

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<div class='quotemain'>

First of all, it is not the caffiene, it is the tanic acid that is the problem.

Don't eat berries, walnuts, pomegranates either then, if tannic acid is bad. Wonder why those items weren't banned in the WoW, if tannic acid is the culprit?

Berries and walnuts are in the top 10 list of healthiest foods to eat... but then, so is tea. Maybe this tannin isn't so bad after all!

http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/lf_hl_nutr...D_27396,00.html

Josie and Shanstress70: Look in the dictionary or enclopedia and just see what food's contain "Tannic Acid" It's interesting as to what all I found just about everything contain's Tannic Acid such as Apples,diffrent fruits,beans,green bean's,pea's,carrot's just to name a few,so it's NOT just tea or coffee that contain's this so called harmful ingreadent. I grew up LDS all my life as Iam from Utah,but reciently I have come across many things and policy's that I'am having question's to reguarding the LDS faith..T/Y for your comments...Bluesaphires_n_diamonds..aks "J" :dontknow:

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Guest Foryth Teel

<div class='quotemain'>

First of all, it is not the caffiene, it is the tanic acid that is the problem.

Don't eat berries, walnuts, pomegranates either then, if tannic acid is bad. Wonder why those items weren't banned in the WoW, if tannic acid is the culprit?

Berries and walnuts are in the top 10 list of healthiest foods to eat... but then, so is tea. Maybe this tannin isn't so bad after all!

http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/lf_hl_nutr...D_27396,00.html

One possible explaination would be, (and this is only one idea I had, and is based on my own thoughts not nessicerilly any fact or truth,) herbs have many wonderful uses beyond how many people now think of them...as just for teas. Herbs have played a large part, in the roles of medicine, sanitation, horticulture and many other areas. Even tobacco (yes, it could stand as a herb,) can be usefull when used wisely...D&C 89:8 "And again, tobacco is not for the body, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill." Herbs are wonderful when used correctly, and within the propper intent.

This is just one idea I had on this, but it may give you an idea why herbs can be ok to use or atleast give you a new idea on which to expand your own study.

To all things there is a reason, if you have the courage or conviction to seek them out.

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It isn't the tannic acid. If that were the case then Father would have said not to eat nuts, nettle, wood, berries, Chinese galls. Oak wood is very rich in tannic acid. When wine is kept in oak kegs some tannic acid will migrate into the wine. High levels of tannic acid are found in some plant galls. These are formed by plants when they are infected by certain insects. These insects pierce the plant leaves and when the egg hatches out into a larva the plant produces a gall which surrounds the larva. Blecch.

I think I will go with the addiction precept as it certainly makes more sense since Father doesn't say not to eat nuts and berries. The very idea that Father would not want us to partake of tannic acid, which is a tannig agent, makes me wonder about the sacredness of the stomach if not indeed the entire digestive tract, since after we are die we dont need a stomach because we don't have one until we are resurrected whereupon we can choose to eat or not to eat, as shown by the Savior eating with his Apostles after he returned to them after his resurrection. Remember he said, when they were afraid he was a ghost? "Does a spirit have flesh and bone as ye see me have?" And he ate with them. So if it is to avoid tanning the stomach which would be riduculous because everything is restored to its perfect frame, what is the point, especially since in the

war between tannic acid and hydrochloric acid whic is secreted inthe stomach, tannic would lose.

Tannic acid has anti-bacterial, anti-enzymatic and astringent properties. Tannic acid has constringing action upon mucous tissues such as tongue and inside of mouth. The ingestion of tannic acid caused constipation and can be used to treat diarrhoea (in the absence of fever or inflammation). The anti-oxidant and anti-mutagenic properties of tannic acid are beneficial.

However, tannic acid should not be used continuously or in high quantities ad it slows down the absorption of iron and possibly other trace minerals. A study by Afsana K et al entitled Reducing effect of ingesting tannic acid on the absorption of iron, but not of zinc, copper and manganese by rats. published by Bioscience, Biotechnology, and Biochemistry (March 2004) concluded that the usual intake of polyphenols is relatively safe, but that a high intake by supplementation or by dietary habit of tannin affects only the iron level. Tannic acid can also reduce the effectiveness of digestive enzymes.

Externally, tannic acid is used to treat ulcers, toothache and wounds.

Now why would Father want us to avoid that?

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There's a good reason to believe that caffiene played no part in the decision to ban coffee and tea, instead it was the temperature. Even the medical community of the nineteenth century looked at the temperature of coffee and tea as injurious and not so much the ingredients - hence "hot drinks". Before the WofW became a commandment, I believe a way to avoid these "hot" drinks was to let the coffee or tea cool down a bit - makes sense.

One should not infer that orthodox physicians would necessarily have differed with Word of Wisdom guidelines on “hot drinks”. In fact most would probably have felt themselves in full agreement, because on the question of temperature there was near unanimity – at least as it related to high temperatures. Despite his judgement that “no valid objection” could be made against the temperate consumption of tea and coffee, Combe asserted without qualification that “liquids, such as soup, tea, and coffee, taken at a very high temperature, … are injurious”35 To Ticknor, it was the hot water that was the real culprit, hot tea being “positively less injurious than simple hot water” because its tonic properties partially conteracted the debilitating effects of the latter.36

The Word of Wisdom in Early Nineteenth-Century Perspective (page 55). By Lester E. Bush Jr.

http://content.lib.utah.edu/cdm4/document....=6557&REC=9

M.

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I stand corrected and apologize for the mis-information: Maybe this will help though:

“Not for the Body” by Elder Harold G. Hillam Of the Seventy in Ensign, Oct 2001, 18

(this was a discription of what he had learned from a professor in his classes for medical school.)

Tea and coffee were discussed, not only because of their adverse chemical effects on the body, but also because of the temperature of the drinks. The drinks were often taken so hot that, without realizing it, many individuals were drinking liquids close to the boiling temperature. Those detrimental effects were observed.

“And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly” (D&C 89:9).

But why do these substances act as they do? Why does one person contract an infirmity, and another in the same situation and environment never have a problem?

Our renowned instructor explained that under normal conditions, the cells behave in a normal manner; however, certain factors can trigger the cells to go out of control. These cells then become fast-growing and destructive tumors that can disfigure and threaten life. The sensitivity level at which the cells respond to the triggering factor, or T-Factor as he called it, depends on the inherent nature of the individual. Some people are very sensitive, so just a small stimulus would cause the change, while other individuals appear to be more resistant. This inherent level at which the cells can be triggered to change could explain why some people live long and seemingly trouble free, while others are affected easily and early in life.

Boyd K. Packer in Ensign May 1996 page 17:

Members write in asking if this thing or that is against the Word of Wisdom. It’s well known that tea, coffee, liquor, and tobacco are against it. It has not been spelled out in more detail. Rather, we teach the principle together with the promised blessings. There are many habit-forming, addictive things that one can drink or chew or inhale or inject which injure both body and spirit which are not mentioned in the revelation.

Everything harmful is not specifically listed; arsenic, for instance—certainly bad, but not habit-forming! He who must be commanded in all things, the Lord said, “is a slothful and not a wise servant” (D&C 58:26).

BYU Answers to Frequently asked Questions:

Why don't Latter-day Saints drink coffee?

a. In 1833, Joseph Smith received a revelation known as the Word of Wisdom, which states that "hot drinks are not for the belly" (D&C 89:9). Church leaders later defined "hot drinks" as coffee and tea, establishing the official interpretation for subsequent generations. The Word of Wisdom was given originally to show the will of God, though not as a commandment. Abstinence from coffee has been expected of fully participating members since the early twentieth century. The main chemical in coffee that has caused health concerns is caffeine, a cerebral and cardiovascular stimulant. A large number of other substances are also found in coffee, and their effects on health are not yet well understood.

abstracted from "Coffee," in Encyclopedia of Mormonism, ed. Daniel H. Ludlow, 4 vols. (New York: Macmillan, 1992), 1:289.

The abstracts on this site have been prepared by BYU Studies staff and interns.

Related Scriptures

Doctrine and Covenants 89:18-21

I hope this helps. The Source is always the best place to get answers.

Josie :oops:

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Guest bizabra

Well, we are to avoid the appearance of evil. Also, coffee and tea were mentioned in the WoW because at that time they didn't have Mountain Dew and Pepsi. Can you imagine what people would have thought if Father had listed all the things he knew would have caffeine in them? Addiction is what the issue is. The war in heaven was about agency and when we are addicted to something we have given up agency when we are controlled by a need for a substance. Decaf is only 97% caffeine free. It is also akin to keeping one foot in the door to temptation. Father says it isn't necessary for him to govern us in all things

We are to pray and ponder these things. We aren't to look for justification and rationalization to do what he has asked us not to do.

We can argue Spirit of the Law and Letter of the Law all day long but addiction is why we are to avoid caffeine. I would be concerned about anyone seeing me drinking decaf and wondering why an LDS person is drinking coffee. Being a good example. Maybe ask her to do what the Savior would do or what he would have her do.

BIZ: Coffee and tea are NOT mentioned in the WofW. Hot drinks are. Definition on what that entails is now solidified into no coffee or tea. Debate is rampant over why, exactly, these 2 pretty inocuous and mildly stimulating beverages are so banned. Maybe you'd care to speculate?

<div class='quotemain'>

The WoW does not state "coffee or tea". It does, however, mention "hot drinks." It is our assumption that hot drinks is to be interpreted as coffee, but only the Spirit can reveal that to an individual.

hmm :hmmm: Does this mean I can eat the Coffee ice cream my wife mistakenly bought me a few days ago? :wow:

BIZ: Would YOU consider ice cream to be a "hot drink"? I think NOT, ergo, go right ahead and enjoy!

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Josie and Shanstress70: Look in the dictionary or enclopedia and just see what food's contain "Tannic Acid" It's interesting as to what all I found just about everything contain's Tannic Acid such as Apples,diffrent fruits,beans,green bean's,pea's,carrot's just to name a few,so it's NOT just tea or coffee that contain's this so called harmful ingreadent.

Yes, that was the exact same point I was trying to make... that it makes no sense to say it's tannic acid bc it's in so many healthy things.

I stand corrected and apologize for the mis-information: Maybe this will help though:

“Not for the Body” by Elder Harold G. Hillam Of the Seventy in Ensign, Oct 2001, 18

(this was a discription of what he had learned from a professor in his classes for medical school.)

Tea and coffee were discussed, not only because of their adverse chemical effects on the body, but also because of the temperature of the drinks. The drinks were often taken so hot that, without realizing it, many individuals were drinking liquids close to the boiling temperature. Those detrimental effects were observed.

“And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly” (D&C 89:9).

Then why aren't all hot drinks banned: hot chocolate, herbal tea, soup? And why can't you drink iced tea?

Granted, I'm no longer LDS, but even when I was, this subject never made sense to me. So many contradictions.

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<div class='quotemain'>

debate is rampant as to whether these mildly stimulating drinks are banned....perhaps you should speculate where the debate is at..........part of the country I live in there is no debate.....

Hummmm so if there's no debate on this subject where you live where's that? Bluesaphires_n_diamonds :hmmm:

why do I need to say where I live.....I have never seen debate on this subject....only time I hear about it is when I read it here..... :hmmm:

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