Garments

[free_thinker]

Hello everyone! ^.^

I hope this is the right place to ask about Mormon Garments!?

Yes, I saw the wikipedia page, and other pages, however I'm interested in "your" words. "Your" ideas. "Your" belief. "Your" experience. So please no literature [mormon links] please (I have no issues looking them up myself, but I thank you for making it easier, and no thx), if you do not wish to speak about this because you feel you can not express your opinion in your own words, I understand just ignore this post.

Now I know about it being sacred, and how it reminds the wearer the promise he/she made to keep the doctrines. Not interested in that part. Not one bit, please no lectures on that I saw the wiki page and I am content.

Protection from actual physical harms. Is that true? Has this been recorded in instances that I can verify myself?(without the aforementioned mormon links) Has anyone been protected by his/her garment in a fire? Accident? Or such, and could you please give details.

[applepansy]

You've given us lots of parameters for a discussion.

The experiences you are asking for are all anecdotal and are often, for the person having the experience, sacred. So, these experiences are not often talked about by the person who actually had them. Thus the stories are more along the lines of just stories.

Best wishes

[skippy740]

This is Bill Marriott's interview on 60 minutes:

This is HIS story. It is not doctrine and any other 'evidence' is purely for that person.

[free_thinker]

Yes I have. I often never get a straight answer from people of certain beliefs. I'm not interested in a discussion about belief. Just a straight answer of did this happen or not. Who is better to answer that question? In my opinion the person that experienced it should definitely be included in the investigation for the truth, even if they are not the sole source of proof used.

Think: courthouse of US law. You will kind of see my line of thinking...or not. Thanks for your reply.

[free_thinker]

Thank you skippy. Watching.

I would have liked a little bit more substance from him, for example take Bill Marriott's experience. (he's a mormon! wow I did not know that, thx. HUGE 10%) if it had been like so: "the firefighters came to rescue me and they all could see my whole body was on fire "except" for the garments. After putting the fire out everyone could clearly see the garments and the parts of my body which it covered were clearly intact, whilst everywhere else was badly burned". That I think would sway a jury, seeing the actual non burned garments too, and I think that's what it would take most unbiased people to believe this man was in a boat fire and was protected. I think of myself unbiased btw.

The football player is also in such a great position to use his garments too in my opinion. Putting the fact that it is frowned upon to use them in sporting events. Imagine the headlines! Mormon Football players go through lifetime careers with not a single injury since they wore religiously their garments for every game! Or imagine Mormons in the military! Grenade shrapnel clearly observed shredding off every limb, yet mormon service men always come home alive due to their garments protecting their vital organs.

Those were just silly made up examples that came to mind of course, that I think would give real substance to the physical protection claim.

Anyone else?

Edited July 5, 2013 by free_thinker
Added thoughts after watching

[skippy740]

Since the Church or its doctrine doesn't make the physical protection claim... seeking real substance behind what I call 'Mormon folklore' is a rather moot point.

[Just_A_Guy]

Indeed. The protection is, first and foremost, spiritual.

If, due to my observance of the covenants represented by the garment, the Lord steps in and protects me physically from time to time by whatever means He deems appropriate . . . great. But that isn't why I wear it.

[free_thinker]

Ooooooh so it's just hearsay this physical protection thin!?

[skalenfehl]

My father in law has. I have as well. Keep in mind that the garments themselves aren't magical or mysterious. It's not the material itself that is a protection (our garments do not cover our entire bodies) so much as one's worthiness and obedience to the covenants upon which such blessings and protections are predicated.

That said, I my life has been spared on multiple occasions as have limbs, where surely I would have lost them and/or my life in a head on collision, in construction accidents, etc. Once my father in law was operating an electric circular saw when while cutting a board, the saw jammed and kicked back while the blade was still at full RPMs. The spinning blade ripped his shirt but didn't touch his garments. In such a scenario, the blade would surely have sliced open his abdomen.

[jerome1232]

Ooooooh so it's just hearsay this physical protection thin!?

If a saint (member) was pin-holed by bullets, cut in half, burnt to a crisp, stabbed multiple times and slapped by a fish all while wearing their garments, no one would blink an eye, doubt that persons worthiness, or concluded they must not have been wearing their garments that day.

edit: Although we might all say that person is really unlucky and should've chosen a better route to come home from work, or something...

[pam]

The problem with us giving answers such as you are asking is that they start to fall into faith promoting stories that one might hear. Which can start to cross the line of the site rules:

9. Please do not share any "true" or "faith promoting" stories, unless you can verify the source.

[free_thinker]

Are you serious...Asking such simple question, to get the truth from people whom are in the best position (they wear garments) to answer, whilst in their least hostile environment (internet-asking something personal-faith) is also against site rules. >.<

I'm asking "their" personal experience, I thought I made myself very clear when I asked my original question. Guess not clear enough.

Edited July 5, 2013 by free_thinker

[Gwen]

The problem, as has already been explained, is in the question. You are asking us to prove to you, through personal experience, something that is not a doctrinal claim of the church to begin with.

You may as well come here and ask us to share personal experience to prove the earth is flat. We don't believe the earth is flat so it's gonna be kinda hard to give you what you are asking for.

Just because something can happen does not mean it will. Are there stories out there for what you are asking? yup. Does that mean everyone will always have that experience? nope. None of that changes anything doctrinal. Just like there are stories of ppl that were inspired to change hotels and the one they were in burns down. Does that mean everyone will be spared a building fire? nope, I was in a house fire as a kid and no revelation to jump ship came to me or my parents beforehand. However, we did all get out safely and I consider that a protection (and I wasn't endowed yet ).

When I think of physical protection that comes from keeping covenants it's not connected to the garments themselves but to having the gift of the holy ghost as a blessing of keeping covenants. We make a covenant to wear the garment to remind us. If we keep our covenants then the HG will be with us. That does not mean bad things don't happen. I have found in my life bad things have happened, but I was able to be of sound mind and process in a very unique way to the situation and come out the other end just fine. I do consider this a blessing from the HG. I consider it a blessing from keeping my covenants. I consider that ability to think calmly a physical safety. Wearing my garments is a covenant I've made..... one could draw a very broad conclusion that this safety comes from wearing the garments.

Do I have the magic story you are looking for? nope.

[free_thinker]

So you basically are just describing your whole life and how you deal effectively with problems, which I and a lot of people whom do not even know about these doctrines you speak of achieve just the same. Then to finally tell me the answer to my question you do not have... hmm so why the life story? lol but yeah thx.

I did not know it was not doctrine, my apologies I thought it was something as widely accepted to be doctrinal like polygamy once was that the garments offered physical protection. Questioned answered, thank you.

[skalenfehl]

As one who attends the temple frequently to do vicarious work in temple endowment sessions and often in what is called intiatiatories, I can testify that the temple garments are placed upon us to be a protection to us until our missions here on earth are finished. They are essentially the same priesthood rites performed throughout scriptural history.

Exodus 40:

12 And thou shalt bring Aaron and his sons unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and wash them with water.

13 And thou shalt put upon Aaron the holy garments, and anoint him, and sanctify him; that he may minister unto me in the priest’s office.

14 And thou shalt bring his sons, and clothe them with coats:

15 And thou shalt anoint them, as thou didst anoint their father, that they may minister unto me in the priest’s office: for their anointing shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations.

16 Thus did Moses: according to all that the Lord commanded him, so did he.

This is still done today. I testify from many personal experiences of being protected that this is true.

Edit: All who are anointed with the Aaronic Priesthood are "sons" of Aaron.

Edited July 5, 2013 by skalenfehl

[Gwen]

So you basically are just describing your whole life and how you deal effectively with problems, which I and a lot of people whom do not even know about these doctrines you speak of achieve just the same. Then to finally tell me the answer to my question you do not have... hmm so why the life story? lol but yeah thx.

I did not know it was not doctrine, my apologies I thought it was something as widely accepted to be doctrinal like polygamy once was that the garments offered physical protection. Questioned answered, thank you.

I didn't give you my life story. You are not worthy of my life story/spiritual experiences. I did answer your question. I said I didn't have a magic story, which it seems is all you are interested in..... hummmm

I gave you what was necessary to understand a concept... I know you specifically asked for no details, similar to what I did, but after your responses to others who said what I did much more plainly you still did not seem to understand. So instead of giving you what you asked for I gave you what you clearly needed. So lol you're welcome.

However, you still seem to not be getting it or still looking for proof the world is flat.

There is handling problems effectively and then there is something more.

I've heard non-lds women talk about something called "mother's grace". This is a grace period given to them in which they know and do things there is no way they could have known to know or do. A period when they have a connection to the other realm for the physical safety of their child. A period where they have such a strong connection with god both day and night. And then when the child is out of immediate danger it's gone, the temporary "grace period" is up.

As LDS we believe that through our covenants we can have the gift of the holy ghost, which is basically exactly like this grace period only it doesn't have to end. What a blessing that is. It's not something that can be prove, or should be. It's not something you would understand if you haven't felt it. It's very personal between that person and god for the edifying of that person's faith. I can't prove it to you any more than I can prove there is a benefit to wearing the garments.

If you want proof and want to know for yourself then you need to take that up with god.

And since your question is asked and answered and you still have attitude rather than appreciation for the time ppl took to answer your question I'd like to call troll...... but I'll leave that up to the mods.

[NeuroTypical]

Sorry for our reaction to you free_thinker. We're a little touchy when someone shows up and asks us about our underwear. And the last dozen visitors to this site who called themselves free thinkers, were all trolls just here to mock or argue.

[Guest]

Also, posts that are mocking, condescending, rude, disrespectful, and accusatory tend to come off as trollish.

[bytebear]

There are two questions here.

1. Do Mormons believe in miracles dealing with physical protection?

Articles of Faith #7: We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.

So the answer is yes.

2. Do we believe that God uses physical objects as catalysts for such miracles or even that certain objects are holy and therefore protected by God?

Exodus 40:9 And thou shalt take the anointing oil, and anoint the tabernacle, and all that is therein, and shalt hallow it, and all the vessels thereof: and it shall be holy.

Mark 6:13 And they cast out many devils, and anointed with oil many that were sick, and healed them.

James 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord

Numbers 21:8-9 And the Lord said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live. And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

So, again the answer is yes.

So, you seem to be equating magical powers to garments, but in ordinances specifically used to heal the sick, neither you, nor the Mormons would ever call olive oil magical in any way.

[Just_A_Guy]

. . . but in ordinances specifically used to heal the sick, neither you, nor the Mormons would ever call olive oil magical in any way.

In The Gift and Power: Translating the Book of Mormon, Brant Gardner goes on at some length about the way the term "magic" has been used historically. It boils down to: "Religion" is what I do; "Magic" is what those other heathens who are not of my faith do.

An interesting perspective.

[skippy740]

You are not worthy of my life story/spiritual experiences. I did answer your question. I said I didn't have a magic story, which it seems is all you are interested in..... hummmm

I want to bring out this point.

All of these experiences are personal. I know that we need to treat sacred experiences as sacred. Therefore, more special experiences are those things that we won't share. We want to show the Lord that we are worthy of these experiences and to bless us with more.

If you're not seeing an abundance of stories being shared, this is probably why.

[free_thinker]

There are two questions here.

1. Do Mormons believe in miracles dealing with physical protection?

Articles of Faith #7: We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.

So the answer is yes.

2. Do we believe that God uses physical objects as catalysts for such miracles or even that certain objects are holy and therefore protected by God?

Exodus 40:9 And thou shalt take the anointing oil, and anoint the tabernacle, and all that is therein, and shalt hallow it, and all the vessels thereof: and it shall be holy.

Mark 6:13 And they cast out many devils, and anointed with oil many that were sick, and healed them.

James 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord

Numbers 21:8-9 And the Lord said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live. And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

So, again the answer is yes.

So, you seem to be equating magical powers to garments, but in ordinances specifically used to heal the sick, neither you, nor the Mormons would ever call olive oil magical in any way.

Thank you for carefully reading my original question. Also my question has been answered, by others who could show me that answer using their own words. Thank you however for your abundant quotes, and following directions. :) you are so kind.

[free_thinker]

I didn't give you my life story. You are not worthy of my life story/spiritual experiences. I did answer your question. I said I didn't have a magic story, which it seems is all you are interested in..... hummmm

I gave you what was necessary to understand a concept... I know you specifically asked for no details, similar to what I did, but after your responses to others who said what I did much more plainly you still did not seem to understand. So instead of giving you what you asked for I gave you what you clearly needed. So lol you're welcome.

However, you still seem to not be getting it or still looking for proof the world is flat.

There is handling problems effectively and then there is something more.

I've heard non-lds women talk about something called "mother's grace". This is a grace period given to them in which they know and do things there is no way they could have known to know or do. A period when they have a connection to the other realm for the physical safety of their child. A period where they have such a strong connection with god both day and night. And then when the child is out of immediate danger it's gone, the temporary "grace period" is up.

As LDS we believe that through our covenants we can have the gift of the holy ghost, which is basically exactly like this grace period only it doesn't have to end. What a blessing that is. It's not something that can be prove, or should be. It's not something you would understand if you haven't felt it. It's very personal between that person and god for the edifying of that person's faith. I can't prove it to you any more than I can prove there is a benefit to wearing the garments.

If you want proof and want to know for yourself then you need to take that up with god.

And since your question is asked and answered and you still have attitude rather than appreciation for the time ppl took to answer your question I'd like to call troll...... but I'll leave that up to the mods.

I understand my unworthiness in your eyes. I have a beautiful wife that loves me and I need to be worthy in her eyes and hers alone :) Not to other man/woman/nor man made entity humans conjure up to deal with certain human issues that can be easily explained without these entities. You know those entities, well you may not know how many we've conjured up...we are pretty good at that :

Agdistis or Angdistis

Ah Puch

Ahura Mazda

Alberich

Allah

Amaterasu SUN GODS AND GODDESSES

An

Anahita WAR GODS AND GODDESSES

Anansi

Anat

Andvari

Anshar

Anu

Aphrodite LOVE GODDESSES

Apollo SUN GODS AND GODDESSES

Apsu

Ares WAR GODS AND GODDESSES

Artemis MOON GODS AND GODDESSES

Asclepius

Athena WAR GODS AND GODDESSES

Athirat

Athtart

LOVE GODDESSES | WAR GODS AND GODDESSES

Atlas

- B -

Baal

Ba Xian

Bacchus

Balder

Bast

Bellona WAR GODS AND GODDESSES

Bergelmir

Bes

Bixia Yuanjin

Bragi

Brahma

Brigit

- C -

Camaxtli WAR GODS AND GODDESSES

Ceres

Ceridwen

Cernunnos

Chac

Chalchiuhtlicue

Chang Hsi See Heng-O.

Charun

Chemosh WAR GODS AND GODDESSES

Cheng-huang

Cybele

- D -

Dagon

Damkina (Dumkina)

Davlin

Dawn

Demeter

Diana MOON GODS AND GODDESSES

Di Cang

Dionysus

- E -

Ea

El

Enki

Enlil

Eos

Epona

Ereskigal

- F -

Farbauti

Fenrir

Forseti

Fortuna

Freya LOVE GODDESSES

Freyr SUN GODS AND GODDESSES

Frigg

- G -

Gaia

Ganesha

Ganga

Garuda SUN GODS AND GODDESSES

Gauri

Geb

Geong Si

Guanyin

- H -

Hades

Hanuman

Hathor LOVE GODDESSES

Hecate (Hekate)

Helios SUN GODS AND GODDESSES

Heng-o (Chang-o or Chang Hsi) MOON GODS AND GODDESSES

Hephaestus

Hera

Hermes

Hestia

Hod

Hoderi

Hoori

Horus

Hotei

Huitzilopochtli

WAR GODS AND GODDESSES | SUN GODS AND GODDESSES

Hsi-Wang-Mu

Hygeia

- I -

Inanna

LOVE GODDESSES | WAR GODS AND GODDESSES

Inti SUN GODS AND GODDESSES

Iris

Ishtar LOVE GODDESSES

Isis LOVE GODDESSES

Ixtab

Izanaki

Izanami

- J -

Janus WAR GODS AND GODDESSES

Jesus

Juno

Jupiter

Juturna

- K -

Kagutsuchi

Kartikeya WAR GODS AND GODDESSES

Khepri

Ki

Kingu

Kinich Ahau

Kishar

Krishna

Kuan-yin

Kukulcan

Kvasir

- L -

Lakshmi

Leto

Liza SUN GODS AND GODDESSES

Loki

Lugh SUN GODS AND GODDESSES

Luna MOON GODS AND GODDESSES

- M -

Magna Mater

Maia

Marduk

Mars WAR GODS AND GODDESSES

Mazu

Medb

Mercury

Mimir

Min

Minerva WAR GODS AND GODDESSES

Mithras SUN GODS AND GODDESSES

Morrigan WAR GODS AND GODDESSES

Mot

Mummu

Muses

- N -

Nammu

Nanna MOON GODS AND GODDESSES

Nanna (Norse)

Nanse

Neith WAR GODS AND GODDESSES

Nemesis

Nephthys

Neptune

Nergal

Ninazu

Ninhurzag

Nintu

Ninurta WAR GODS AND GODDESSES

Njord

Nugua LOVE GODDESSES

Nut

- O -

Odin

Ohkuninushi

Ohyamatsumi

Orgelmir

Osiris

Ostara

- P -

Pan

Parvati

Phaethon

Phoebe

Phoebus Apollo

Pilumnus

Poseidon

- Q -

Quetzalcoatl

- R -

Rama

Re SUN GODS AND GODDESSES

Rhea

- S -

Sabazius

Sarapis

Sarasvati

Selene MOON GODS AND GODDESSES

Shiva

Seshat

Seti (Set) WAR GODS AND GODDESSES

Shamash

Shapsu

Shen Yi

Shiva

Shu

Si-Wang-Mu

Sin MOON GODS AND GODDESSES

Sirona

Sol SUN GODS AND GODDESSES

Surya

Susanoh

- T -

Tawaret

Tefnut

Tezcatlipoca

Thanatos

Thor

Thoth

Tiamat

Tianhou

Tlaloc

Tonatiuh SUN GODS AND GODDESSES

Toyo-Uke-Bime

Tyche

Tyr WAR GODS AND GODDESSES

- U -

Utu SUN GODS AND GODDESSES

Ullr

Uzume

- V -

Vediovis

Venus LOVE GODDESSES

Vesta

Vishnu

Volturnus

Vulcan

Top of Page

- X -

Xipe

Xi Wang-mu

Xochipilli

Xochiquetzal

- Y -

Yam

Yarikh MOON GODS AND GODDESSES

Yhwh

Ymir

Yu-huang

Yum Kimil

- Z -

Zeus

This "you are not worthy..." phrase used to be used by the followers of these entities also. You should pay attention when watching movies, trust me you may spot that condescending attitude there too. You are not worthy to stand in these holy ground, of the presence of zeus...ect.. ^.^

I AM WORTHY! Just not to you, and that's just fine.

Why though start something you can't finish, did I come harass you to post here? Ou pa vle post gadon kaka pa post tchuips.

[Anddenex]

Did you "think" of this list yourself, or was it given to you

[free_thinker]

No. I did not think of all of them. I can recall only a certain number of names from there. What I did not do is take that list from a biased source, which stands to gain from me accepting that list as truth, and finally it was not from one source :)