I want to become a Mormon, but have some concerns

[JodyTJ]

I haven't posted here for awhile, and I think it's time that I become active again. First off, I really do want to become a Mormon, and join this Church. However, concerns are popping up in my head. I have a list of some concerns and confusing doctrines that I don't understand, etc.

• Is there any conclusive and/or inconclusive evidence that supports the Book of Mormon. If so, could you provide me with a link/book?

• I am a bit worried about the legitimacy of Joseph Smith's prophethood. I've read the Wikipedia article (yes, I know Wikipedia isn't the best source), and I see some worrying trends, such as the bank scandal.

• Can I still go to heaven if I'm not married (I plan on getting married, just curious)?

• I am 19, but will most likely join the Church when I'm 20 something (probably 22-24, since my parents are against it, and I'll be out of the house by that time), but I want to become a missionary. What is the age limit?

• Are the prophets infallible?

• Why were blacks banned from the priesthood?

• Can family members come to my temple marriage? If they can't, would I be able to have a "second" marriage in a place where they can see?

That's all of my serious questions. Here's my not so serious question. I want to purchase the new Standard Works with all four books of scripture in the Quad edition. However, I don't want missionaries coming to my house, since my parents will be very mad (they were very, very mad when I had missionaries come over last summer, didn't go so well..). So my question is, would a shipping company, like UPS or Canada Post ship it to me, or what?

I have been wanting to join the LDS Church for about a year and a half, but I really want to learn more. I don't like doing things fast, so doing this slowly will help me understand and adapt to Mormon theology and culture. I do consider myself a cultural Mormon. But I am guilty of drinking coffee and alcohol. Don't worry, I hate tea. :)

[Dr T]

Good questions in my opinion Jody

[Guest]

You can mail order a quad through either the distribution center at LDS.org or through Deseret Book or Seagull Book. They don't ask whether you're a member or not to order scriptures.

[Guest]

I'll also mention that you might have better response if you post the questions one at a time. :) Please observe the site rules and keep the discussion respectful, and we can have some good conversations on these topics.

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[Lakumi]

I actually don't drink coffee, alcohol or tea, but as many people know, I am a very non social and strange person who... how do I put this... doesn't always get along with others. I work alone, I keep to myself and though I do socialize, I think thrusting myself in such a social church will, well I will crack and shatter.

It seems more a lifestyle (and to many, as I have seen, brings joy into their lives and they are grateful for the church).

Hopefully for you, you are not like me and can function properly with people all the time,

I am pretty sure, to answer at least one of your questions, Missionaries are from, I think 18-26

[estradling75]

I haven't posted here for awhile, and I think it's time that I become active again. First off, I really do want to become a Mormon, and join this Church. However, concerns are popping up in my head. I have a list of some concerns and confusing doctrines that I don't understand, etc.

Welcome JodyTJ

• Is there any conclusive and/or inconclusive evidence that supports the Book of Mormon. If so, could you provide me with a link/book?

If it was conclusive faith would not be required. Many consider their answer when they read and prayed about it to be conclusive for them. Which is the standard the church ask for and encourages its members to have.

Here are some websites listing some pretty interesting evidences

BookofMormonEvidence.org More research paper types

Book of Mormon on Trial More layman's approach (and a bit cheesy)

• I am a bit worried about the legitimacy of Joseph Smith's prophethood. I've read the Wikipedia article (yes, I know Wikipedia isn't the best source), and I see some worrying trends, such as the bank scandal.

If you have a incorrect presumptions that prophets are perfect or incapable of error... Then you really need to study the Old and New Testaments... they are full of stories of flawed messengers of God

• Can I still go to heaven if I'm not married (I plan on getting married, just curious)?

Yes... Sealing (aka temple Marriage) is required for Exaltation but not Salvation.

• I am 19, but will most likely join the Church when I'm 20 something (probably 22-24, since my parents are against it, and I'll be out of the house by that time), but I want to become a missionary. What is the age limit?

If I remember correctly 26

• Are the prophets infallible?

Nope...

• Why were blacks banned from the priesthood?

The official answer is we don't know why... We don't have a historical record that explains.

It was ended by revelation in 1978

• Can family members come to my temple marriage? If they can't, would I be able to have a "second" marriage in a place where they can see?

Only members of the church in good standing can attend the temple.

Officially a 'second' marriage ceremony is discouraged. A ring exchange ceremony can happen

That's all of my serious questions. Here's my not so serious question. I want to purchase the new Standard Works with all four books of scripture in the Quad edition. However, I don't want missionaries coming to my house, since my parents will be very mad (they were very, very mad when I had missionaries come over last summer, didn't go so well..). So my question is, would a shipping company, like UPS or Canada Post ship it to me, or what?

The church can ship to you just like it would to any of its member (no missionaries) I am not sure what service they use

Gospel Study - store.lds.org

Or you could try this one if you wish

DeseretBook.com - LDS Distribution Center

[NightSG]

You can mail order a quad through either the distribution center at LDS.org or through Deseret Book or Seagull Book. They don't ask whether you're a member or not to order scriptures.

For that matter, they don't require you to be a member to set up an account on lds.org and use the online resources there. (You won't be able to get into certain parts, like the member directories or the temple clothing part of the store, but all the publications are available.) The same login is used for Gospel Library on iPhone or Android, so you can make notes on the app or the website and have them synced with the other. I know a few nonmembers who use GL just because it's one of the best smartphone Bible apps out there.

For hardcopy works, I highly recommend two products, the Sharpie Gel highlighter (Only the gel, don't believe any regular highlighter that says it will highlight on any paper including glossy while not bleeding through thin Bible pages.) which is usually available at Staples, and Book Darts. Book Darts are called Verse Keepers when they're sold $5 per 10 pack in the Bible section of a bookstore, but at $9 per can of 50 online, I can't justify the smaller packs. Get an assortment tin, as it's really handy to work up a system among all your books. What I usually do is one stainless marking my current place, bronze marking major divisions (OT/NT/Dictionary, etc. I usually put these at the top rather than along the fly edge so things don't get cluttered.) and brass marking passages I want to come back to for whatever reason. The benefit is that they point right at the place you want so you can find it immediately, and can be easily moved around whenever you want.

[pam]

Here is an article about whether we believe our prophets are infallible:

Do Mormons Believe their Prophets are Infallible? | Mormon Beliefs

[tubaloth]

• Is there any conclusive and/or inconclusive evidence that supports the Book of Mormon. If so, could you provide me with a link/book?

Have you found some book that has some inconclusive evidence that God exists? That there is a Heaven? That Jesus Christ was the Son of God?

That is the point of Religon and Faith. We have to take steps to build our Faith... How you ask, but following the words of Prophets (who probably have seen God and Jesus Christ).

The Book of Mormon is the same way. Read it, how do you feel as you read it. What do you think the Spirit is trying to tell you? Pray about it... then you can come to know, just as I know the book is true. Thats enough evidence for me.

• I am a bit worried about the legitimacy of Joseph Smith's prophethood. I've read the Wikipedia article (yes, I know Wikipedia isn't the best source), and I see some worrying trends, such as the bank scandal.

There was this "guy" that preaches for 3 years, he healed the sick, he even raised the dead, but in the end they still rejected him.

I'm sure you have read the first version. I suggest you read it again and pray about it. Again we have to build a foundation. Then the other little things aren't going to matter.

• Can I still go to heaven if I'm not married (I plan on getting married, just curious)?

Yes and no. Yes you can get to the Celestial Kingdom. But... the LDS church believes there are three sections in the Celestial Kingdom. THe highest is for those married in the temple.

• I am 19, but will most likely join the Church when I'm 20 something (probably 22-24, since my parents are against it, and I'll be out of the house by that time), but I want to become a missionary. What is the age limit?

I think its still around 26 years old... you can only be a missionary once you have been a member for a year. I wouldn't wait!

• Are the prophets infallible?

Prophets like Adam, Noah, Moses, Peter, James and John, Nephi, Alma, Mormon, and Moroni. Are all Men. Men can make mistakes. But Lord can make up for those mistakes. Prophet have a special calling that when they have the spirit of revelation. They really can't lead us astray.

• Why were blacks banned from the priesthood?

Something happen at some time, that Heavenly Father took the priesthood. We don't know the details.

• Can family members come to my temple marriage? If they can't, would I be able to have a "second" marriage in a place where they can see?

Yes and No. They can if they are members of the church and have a temple recommend.

The requirements to enter the temple are the same for all.

Assuming your family is not LDS, then no they wouldn't be able to.

You could have a civil marriage when ever you want to.

I have been wanting to join the LDS Church for about a year and a half, but I really want to learn more. I don't like doing things fast, so doing this slowly will help me understand and adapt to Mormon theology and culture.

Do you come to church?

Have you met with the Missionaries?

I commend you on taking the steps you have so far. But we are talking about progression. Progression in this Mormon Cultural, but also Progressing towards Heavenly Father. There is only so much you can do on your own. So doesn't let that hold you back.

[pam]

You will need to come to terms with Joseph Smith having been a prophet and gain a testimony of it. You can't very well go out and teach people about him and how the church was restored if you don't believe or have a testimony of it yourself.

You need to start there.

[Lakumi]

You will need to come to terms with Joseph Smith having been a prophet and gain a testimony of it. You can't very well go out and teach people about him and how the church was restored if you don't believe or have a testimony of it yourself.

You need to start there.

I just know if I ever have a testimony, it will be the most sane thing I'll have ever written

[Forest]

Hello all, I'm just asking this because I don't feel it has been answered yet, and I don't understand either how the leaders/prophets don't know why it happened.

How can one acquire a testimony of the prophets when something that historically happened but cannot be explained by a church which keeps detailed genealogy records? African Americans were banned from the priesthood = official response we don't know why, It ended in 1978 end of story.

I understand the church not wanting to talk about a sensitive issue but it has been answered elsewhere and if the church won't give a better answer than "I don't know" wouldn't make more sense to look at what other historians whom have no issue speaking about the subject say?

I won't post it here, but a quick google search of Brigham Young on the subject will give you (the OP) some very good quotes as to why he may have received such a revelation.

[estradling75]

Forest I am sorry that the church being honest with you is inadequate... But I think you are laboring under two very false assumptions.

One the assumption that the historical record somehow represents and impartial, true, and complete record of everything. Anyone with any study of history will laugh at that assumption. History is snippets of records that one must evaluate for bias, incomplete data, simple human error. As well as out and out falsehood. Thus at best history is a collection of historical nuggets of potential fact that the Historians try to weave into a coherent logical whole. This weaving can and often is influenced by the historians own expectation or read of how the facts fit together.

At the time of the Ban the church was in a leadership transition and was fleeing persecution to Utah. It makes it more likely that records will be lost, or not recorded, it also means that opinions are going to run high and be very strong on the various sides of the differing groups. This combines to make for a very murky historical picture.

The church has looked at what the various historians (including their own) have said it has evaluated them for their own potential biases and come back with "We don't know why"

The second assumption is one of revelation. We believe in continuing to expand and refine what the Lord will have us do. But to many think that the leadership is always plugged in and can not be wrong. The scriptural records show otherwise. The scriptural show God calling flawed human beings and giving them instructions... then they go to work doing the best they know how to follow the instructions of Lord... Sometimes struggling mighty and messing up. Then when the Lord deems it wise he step in with further instructions, clarifications, rebukes, and what ever else is needed.

This was on display in lifting of the ban in 1978. Elder McConkie is a perfect example. Before 1978 Elder McConkie taught and even believed that the Ban was based on linage. He was there for the 1978 revelation. After the revelation he says in essence... I know what I taught before. But know we need to forget and replace it with what we have now. Its a perfect example of gaining greater light and knowledge and the Lord correcting his church when the Lord feels it it time to do so.

Its is really too bad that many member of the church who claim to believe in modern revelation wish to ignore what has been taught since 1978. Instead they wish to cling to older instructions and effectively seal the Heavens at that point

[HiJolly]

Official reasons aside... I think it's pretty obvious that BY and other GAs at the time were racist. And they continued to be racist for generations. But not ALL GAs were, thank God.

Edited July 16, 2013 by HiJolly

[bytebear]

God works within the culture of his children. He gives us free will. When we try to judge the past based on the present, we will always be disappointed. And if you are just looking for Mormon history through the internet, you are going to get a very specific slice of negative. I recommend you find books or articles about the church from different ages. Brigham Young's persona is ever changing with our changing culture. And the "scandal" of the day permeates the way people perceive the church.

[Just_A_Guy]

At the time of the Ban the church was in a leadership transition and was fleeing persecution to Utah. It makes it more likely that records will be lost, or not recorded, it also means that opinions are going to run high and be very strong on the various sides of the differing groups. This combines to make for a very murky historical picture.

To supplement: we can pin down, to a window of months, when the ban originated; because we have relatively close statements from Brigham Young saying, first, that there's no problem ordaining blacks; and then, later, that blacks should not be ordained.

The trouble is that, in the interim, Young was--quite literally--on the road between Salt Lake and Winter Quarters. If he wasn't traveling he was living out of a wagon and a tent (SLC) or a dingy, mud-infested log cabin (Winter Quarters).

We know what information Young was getting during that time, because he saved incoming and outgoing letters. That's why some historians feel comfortable making educated guesses about Walker Lewis, William McCary, etc. But when you see--for example--the "revelation books" from the Kirtland era or the personal papers Young maintained a decade later when he employed no fewer than six scribes--as far as I know, there's no analogue for that during the narrow period in which the ban originated.

And of course, the whole situation is complicated by the fact that we do have decent evidence that a later Church president asked the Lord for permission to remove the ban in the 1950s, and that that permission was, for the time being, categorically denied.

Edited July 16, 2013 by Just_A_Guy

[skippy740]

• Are the prophets infallible?

• Why were blacks banned from the priesthood?

Those two questions go hand-in-hand. Prophets are not infallible.

As far as why those of African lineage were banned from the priesthood... we 'officially' don't know.

I do like the new introduction to Official Declaration 2:

Official Declaration 2

The Book of Mormon teaches that “all are alike unto God,” including “black and white, bond and free, male and female” (2 Nephi 26:33). Throughout the history of the Church, people of every race and ethnicity in many countries have been baptized and have lived as faithful members of the Church. During Joseph Smith’s lifetime, a few black male members of the Church were ordained to the priesthood. Early in its history, Church leaders stopped conferring the priesthood on black males of African descent. Church records offer no clear insights into the origins of this practice. Church leaders believed that a revelation from God was needed to alter this practice and prayerfully sought guidance. The revelation came to Church President Spencer W. Kimball and was affirmed to other Church leaders in the Salt Lake Temple on June 1, 1978. The revelation removed all restrictions with regard to race that once applied to the priesthood.

What you may be more interested in, is what is the doctrine concerning any race? The above introduction helps to clarify the doctrines, but it isn't complete.

I would simply encourage you to search my past posts on this subject and review the following sticky link: http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/45876-scriptures-church-history-racism-blacks-scriptures.html

Most of the 'homework' has already been done for you. Just read it over and pray about it.

[Lakumi]

God works within the culture of his children. He gives us free will. When we try to judge the past based on the present, we will always be disappointed. And if you are just looking for Mormon history through the internet, you are going to get a very specific slice of negative. I recommend you find books or articles about the church from different ages. Brigham Young's persona is ever changing with our changing culture. And the "scandal" of the day permeates the way people perceive the church.

For some reason, the LDS church is really disliked by the denizens of the net and I never really understood why.

You understand people's distain towards other religions that are making news today for bad reasons. But the average person, least here, knows very little about Mormons apart from the fact they come to your door.

Maybe that's the worst thing?

People are weird.

[bytebear]

For some reason, the LDS church is really disliked by the denizens of the net and I never really understood why.

You understand people's distain towards other religions that are making news today for bad reasons. But the average person, least here, knows very little about Mormons apart from the fact they come to your door.

Maybe that's the worst thing?

People are weird.

It's funny. Some people think Mormons are all about polygamy, or about racism, or about secrecy in the temples. That's their perceived notion of what being a Mormon would be about. That every lesson in Sunday School would be about the priesthood ban. That's true of the internet discussions, and certainly if you took all the discussions on this and other boards and ranked them by popularity, you might see them rise to the top. But being a member, attending church and studying the gospel makes you realize that those issues are a sliver of what the Gospel is about. That's why lds.org doesn't go into any depth on Brigham Young's wives. Sure we all know he had quite a few, but it means very little, both in the day to day living of a Mormon or in our eternal destiny. Now, if you read the Sunday School manuals, or the scriptures, you will find that the Gospel message is far different than the internet message.

[dahlia]

Just for my own edification - since a sealing operates as a legal marriage, people who have a lot of non-LDS friends & family would not have a separate civil marriage just so these people could attend, right? If they wanted to include these people in the happy occasion, they would just have a reception, not another marriage ceremony?

[pam]

Just for my own edification - since a sealing operates as a legal marriage, people who have a lot of non-LDS friends & family would not have a separate civil marriage just so these people could attend, right? If they wanted to include these people in the happy occasion, they would just have a reception, not another marriage ceremony?

Here in the states at least, if they have a civil marriage first, standard is they have to wait 1 year before they can be sealed. If they have the sealing first..well they are already married at that point. They could have a ring ceremony and reception but most just have a reception.

[Guest]

Just for my own edification - since a sealing operates as a legal marriage, people who have a lot of non-LDS friends & family would not have a separate civil marriage just so these people could attend, right? If they wanted to include these people in the happy occasion, they would just have a reception, not another marriage ceremony?

Correct. Since the temple marriage is legally binding in the USA, you can't, by law, have another civil marriage (by a legally appointed judge, etc.). But, you can legally have a ceremony without the legal trappings... which is usually held at the reception.

Although, I really don't get the need for people to have ceremonies. But that's just me. I would rather just have everybody PARTY FOR A WEEK! That would be awesome! :)

[Lakumi]

what if I wanted a wedding in a pirate ship lol

no temple has one of those (I don't think I have to worry about that, to my knowledge I have never known anyone who was LDS and the likelihood of meeting a woman who was LDS and marrying her is slim at best lol)

[Maureen]

...They could have a ring ceremony and reception but most just have a reception.

I wonder if anyone has done a poll to see how many couples are having both ring ceremony and reception compared to just a reception. I'm finding personally, that most young LDS couples getting married now are including a ring ceremony in their day.

M.

[jerome1232]

I wonder if anyone has done a poll to see how many couples are having both ring ceremony and reception compared to just a reception. I'm finding personally, that most young LDS couples getting married now are including a ring ceremony in their day.

M.

Generally, only if they have a lot of close non-member family in my experience. Vast majority of the time I see just a reception, My wife and I had a ring ceremony because she is the only member in her family, and we thought it would be nice for them.