Nelson Mandela passes over

[lizrenowden]

BBC News - South Africa's Nelson Mandela dies

[Backroads]

A great man who did a lot of good. He will be missed.

[Wingnut]

A once in a generation kind of person.

[pam]

I wonder how much more he could have done if he had not spent so many years in prison.

[talisyn]

He was amazing. He was a member of a 'questionable' organization in his early years (although how you can call it terrorism when the entire societal order was against a person simply and only because of skin color and ancestry) who used the years in prison to shape his soul into something strong, wise, and gentle. I'm grateful that he lived up to the hype.

[bytebear]

Does the end justify the means? His organization did unspeakable acts of violence, murdering hundreds of people monthly, and he was an avowed communist. He was not about equality or freedom. He just happened to usher it in, and rolled with it. Perhaps he truly changed in prison but he did deserve to be there.

[talisyn]

Do people have a right to fight for their freedom? Do slaves have a right to seek redress from their oppressors? Or do they patiently wait until their masters give it to them?

Nelson Mandela and Desmond Tutu and a host of others, black and white, are responsible for South Africa's change in social, economical, and political bloodless revolution. They are better people than I am.

Edited December 6, 2013 by talisyn

[LittleWyvern]

In case anybody hasn't seen this:

The First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints released the following statement today in regards to the passing of Nelson Mandela:

With the rest of the world, we mourn the passing of revered statesman Nelson Mandela. His courage, kindness and extraordinary moral leadership have been an example to all people. We express our love and sympathies to his family and the people of South Africa as they remember his extraordinary life.

[bytebear]

Do people have a right to fight for their freedom? Do slaves have a right to seek redress from their oppressors? Or do they patiently wait until their masters give it to them?

Nelson Mandela and Desmond Tutu and a host of others, black and white, are responsible for South Africa's change in social, economical, and political bloodless revolution. They are better people than I am.

Bloodless revolution? You need to review history.

Read this, and tell me if they have the right.

Necklacing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The details are horrific. Now remember, we as a church are still lambasted for Mountain Meadows Massacre 150 years later. This was only 30 years ago, and about 1000 times more violent and extreme. Do you honestly believe this was necessary?

More details you never heard if you are under 30.

“Saint†Mandela? Not So Fast!

Edited December 6, 2013 by bytebear

[talisyn]

I'll see your links, and raise you this commentary The Surprising Republican Civil War That Erupted Over Nelson Mandela and Apartheid - PolicyMic

Mandela wasn't Martian Luther King, Jr. But he ended up more like him than when he started.

[Just_A_Guy]

Et tu, tit for tat, an eye for an eye, et cetera.

War is all hell, and the millennium can't come soon enough.

[bytebear]

I'll see your links, and raise you this commentary The Surprising Republican Civil War That Erupted Over Nelson Mandela and Apartheid - PolicyMic

Mandela wasn't Martian Luther King, Jr. But he ended up more like him than when he started.

Two wrongs don't make a right, and calling it a bloodless revolution is simply false. Do the ends justify the means. I don't think so. You, apparently do. And congratulations, once again the Republicans are blamed once again. Amazing how that happens.

[LittleWyvern]

[snip]

[talisyn]

Some of the people who are most opposed to oppression from Washington attack Mandela when he was opposed to oppression in his own country.

After years of preaching non-violence, using the political system, making his case as a defendant in court, Mandela resorted to violence against a government that was ruthless and violent in its suppression of free speech.

As Americans we celebrate the farmers at Lexington and Concord who used force to oppose British tyranny. We praise George Washington for spending eight years in the field fighting the British Army’s dictatorial assault on our freedom.

Patrick Henry said, “Give me liberty or give me death.”

Thomas Jefferson wrote and the Continental Congress adopted that “all men are created equal, and they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, among which are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.”

Doesn’t this apply to Nelson Mandela and his people?

Some conservatives say, ah, but he was a communist.

Actually Mandela was raised in a Methodist school, was a devout Christian, turned to communism in desperation only after South Africa was taken over by an extraordinarily racist government determined to eliminate all rights for blacks.

I would ask of his critics: where were some of these conservatives as allies against tyranny? Where were the masses of conservatives opposing Apartheid? In a desperate struggle against an overpowering government, you accept the allies you have just as Washington was grateful for a French monarchy helping him defeat the British.

Spoken by noted Commie Terrorist Sympathizer Newt Gingrich

Bytebear, the number. The vote. They speak for themselves. Clear-cut facts.

[talisyn]

Sorry, forgot the link!

https://www.gingrichproductions.com/2013/12/what-would-you-have-done-nelson-mandela-and-american-conservatives/

[bytor2112]

Rest in peace....

""No one is born hating another person because of the colour of his skin, or his background, or his religion. People must learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love, for love comes more naturally to the human heart than its opposite."

[bytor2112]

Sad that historical honesty must devolve into liberal and conservative. Much of the violence has been white washed in favor of the feel good story that Mandela had become.

He was involved with some very bad things and said some good things like:

""No one is born hating another person because of the colour of his skin, or his background, or his religion. People must learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love, for love comes more naturally to the human heart than its opposite."

In the end, like each of us, God will be his judge. But I must disagree with our esteemed President Obama...Mandela was no George Washington.

[Still_Small_Voice]

Nelson Mandela and his fellow conspirators of the ANC and the South African Communist Party were caught by the police while in the possession of thousands of Soviet-made anti-personnel mines and thousands of hand-grenades. From my research I believe he was sentenced to prison for this.

Years later years Mandela was offered his freedom by the South African President Botha if he would simply renounce the use of terrorism, but Mandela refused to do this.

Sounds like Nelson deserved prison to me

[Guest]

You guys are so naive. This is what really bothers me most about the run-of-the-mill American. They go by soundbites and think that it encompasses an event, a government, a life.

Use the word communist to describe Nelson Mandela and oooohh... bad bad bad. Use the word terrorist and ooooohhh... bad bad bad.

This is the same for Palestinians, Muslims, etc.

Most people left with only two options - bomb the enemy or watch their children starve to death - will strap a bomb around their bodies and walk into enemy territory.

So before you politicize the life of Nelson Mandela, please study the history of South Africa. Nothing is as simple as you make it seem in this thread.

Edited December 10, 2013 by anatess

[applepansy]

There is is never an excuse to use violence. I hope when war comes to the America I can be Christ-like.

[Guest]

There is is never an excuse to use violence. I hope when war comes to the America I can be Christ-like.

Yes, because Laban died of a heart attack...

[applepansy]

Yes, because Laban died of a heart attack...

Is Laban your view of Christ-like.

I'm thinking of the sermon on the mount. Rarely does the Lord command us to kill or harm. Instead its "the meek shall inherit the earth."

[bytor2112]

I am not going to be purchasing a Mandela t-shirt and given that he spent something like 27 years in prison for acts of terror and refused to renounce his terrorist tendencies.....he is sure to have his image seen on campuses proudly displayed with Obama and the departed Che' on young folks whose minds are poisoned with liberal mush.

And some of Mandela's more...left pleasing comments:

"If there is a country that has committed unspeakable atrocities in the world, it is the United States of America. They don’t care for human beings,”

Or

“If you look at those matters, you will come to the conclusion that the attitude of the United States of America is a threat to world peace.”

And

“From its earliest days, the Cuban Revolution has also been a source of inspiration to all freedom-loving people. We admire the sacrifices of the Cuban people in maintaining their independence and sovereignty in the face of the vicious imperialist-orchestrated campaign to destroy the impressive gain made in the Cuban Revolution….Long live the Cuban Revolution. Long live comrade Fidel Castro.”

Edited December 12, 2013 by bytor2112

[Lakumi]

Is Laban your view of Christ-like.

I'm thinking of the sermon on the mount. Rarely does the Lord command us to kill or harm. Instead its "the meek shall inherit the earth."

I donno, seems like he was killing people or commanding people to get killed left, right and center in the old testament

Didn't he command the Hebrews to kill the Canaanites after they wandered the desert?

[Lakumi]

I am not going to be purchasing a Mandela t-shirt and given that he spent something like 27 years in prison for acts of terror and refused to renounce his terrorist tendencies.....he is sure to have his image seen on campuses proudly displayed with Obama and the departed Che' on young folks whose minds are poisoned with liberal mush.

seems everytime I come here, either I get blatantly insulted, or my beliefs do

you'd think I'd expect it by now