Keeping past journal

[Vort]

Just as I would think that going through a purse or a wallet or email is more a personal ideal than an expectation. It's just kind of one of those unspoken rules that has been around for ages.

By "personal ideal", I mean that I generally don't open her mail because, well, it's hers. But if I did open her mail, or if she opened mine -- as we sometimes do -- we wouldn't get upset about it. Mi casa, tu casa. If you're married to each other and producing children together, that sort of oneness rather transcends mail.

I do think that journal entries are an extension of private thoughts, and no one has an intrinsic right to my thoughts except me (and perhaps God, though I'm not sure about that one). But again, that seems to be in its own category.

[Leah]

By "personal ideal", I mean that I generally don't open her mail because, well, it's hers. But if I did open her mail, or if she opened mine -- as we sometimes do -- we wouldn't get upset about it. Mi casa, tu casa. If you're married to each other and producing children together, that sort of oneness rather transcends mail.

I do think that journal entries are an extension of private thoughts, and no one has an intrinsic right to my thoughts except me (and perhaps God, though I'm not sure about that one). But again, that seems to be in its own category.

Your "personal ideal" is also in compliance with federal law, as it is a violation of federal law to open any mail that is not addressed to you (yes, even your spouse).

So...stay on your wife's good side.

[Vort]

Your "personal ideal" is also in compliance with federal law, as it is a violation of federal law to open any mail that is not addressed to you (yes, even your spouse).

So...stay on your wife's good side.

True, but I'm pretty confident I am allowed to open my wife's mail with her permission. And she has repeatedly assured me I have that permission.

Similarly, I have no "right" to know her email password, nor she mine. But it would never cross our minds to keep such information from each other.

[Leah]

True, but I'm pretty confident I am allowed to open my wife's mail with her permission. And she has repeatedly assured me I have that permission.

Similarly, I have no "right" to know her email password, nor she mine. But it would never cross our minds to keep such information from each other.

Oh, so serious.

I never felt any compulsion to read my husband's mail or email. If there was something in the mail I needed to know about, he'd tell me, and vice versa. But I would never open it unless he asked me to for a specific reason.

Same with his email. I didn't need to be (nor should I be) party to every 'live' conversation he had, so why should that change because the conversation is happening over email or text? I don't need to "hear" the conversations about this or that car repair or football game...or what he's getting me for my birthday. And I am sure he would have been bored to tears by most of my conversations with my girlfriends.

Of course, all bets are off if a cheating husband is involved.

I don't think there is necessarily a right or a wrong here, other than the fact that some think that the act of being married automatically means you are not entitled to any privacy ever.

I have encountered people who think their marriage is somehow "better" because they have a joint email account or because they leave the bathroom door open. That somehow those who choose differently have something to hide and don't have a good marriage.

[Guest]

I'll clarify in a different way: If I'm married... that doesn't give me the right to go through my wife's purse, nor for her to go through my wallet. It's not that we're hiding anything from each other, but there are some boundaries that couples have. Wallets & purses are one. Journals are another. Unless I'm given explicit permission (or on a hunt to find some keys, lol), I don't go through it.

That's where we are different. My husband has the right to go through my purse and my wallet and my journals and my medical records. Like - if I've been missing for 3 days... That's his job as my husband. It irritates me to no end when my husband goes to call the doctor/insurance company or the credit card place for me and he can't do anything because I have to be on the phone for them to do so... even if I wrote them a note to say he's authorized to everything.

He doesn't go through my wallet (even if he can) out of RESPECT. Not out of "no right to do so". Although, in my house, I go through his wallet or he goes through my wallet all the time - looking for 20 bucks or a specific bank card or the AMC theater card... etc. etc.

There's another thread going on about this one.

Edited January 10, 2014 by anatess

[Sharky]

He doesn't go through my wallet (even if he can) out of RESPECT. Not out of "no right to do so". Although, in my house, I go through his wallet or he goes through my wallet all the time - looking for 20 bucks or a specific bank card or the AMC theater card... etc. etc.

There's another thread going on about this one.

That word "RESPECT" is the key!

Whether or not there is permission to read some ones personal e-mails or to read their personal journal or peer into their minds & read their personal private thoughts .... Respect dictates that you don't.

Respect dictates that you honor that privacy even if you have a very open relationship of no secrets.

I'm sure if I think about it I know most of my wife's passwords or could figure them out & if she were to try she'd recall mine ... but we have no need or reason to even remember those things. (they are written down & stored in a secure place just-in-case something should happen to one of us).

I'm sure if I absolutely needed to I could go into my wife's wallet for something, though I wait for her to get out what is needed & she does likewise for me. We simply do not like getting into each other's wallets ... it just does not feel comfortable to either of us.

It's the same with my work briefcase & my church briefcase .... she refuses to even open them, even when I call & ask her to because I need something out of one of them.

I, likewise, rarely delve into her "office" roller or her "clinical" roller, & when I do it's because she has called me from work & desperately needs some information from a file or from a book or a file on a usb drive e-mailed to her. I keep her on the phone while I'm finding it so that I don't have time to "snoop" beyond the required scope.

Yes, I open most of her mail ... the majority of the household financial stuff comes in her name while the business stuff comes in mine. She does well getting grades & student evals done on time but is lousy about paying bills & similar stuff on time.

Out of Respect I do not feel reading personal journals or even personal mail of the other spouse to be something a husband or wife does. There is or should be a basis of trust in a marriage, trust & respect both say you do not need to "snoop" or look into the personal private writings & conversations of the other.

Edited January 10, 2014 by Sharky

[Guest]

That word "RESPECT" is the key!

Yep.

Whether or not there is permission to read some ones personal e-mails or to read their personal journal or peer into their minds & read their personal private thoughts .... Respect dictates that you don't.

Respect dictates that you honor that privacy even if you have a very open relationship of no secrets.

I'm sure if I think about it I know most of my wife's passwords or could figure them out & if she were to try she'd recall mine ... but we have no need or reason to even remember those things. (they are written down & stored in a secure place just-in-case something should happen to one of us).

I'm sure if I absolutely needed to I could go into my wife's wallet for something, though I wait for her to get out what is needed & she does likewise for me. We simply do not like getting into each other's wallets ... it just does not feel comfortable to either of us.

It's the same with my work briefcase & my church briefcase .... she refuses to even open them, even when I call & ask her to because I need something out of one of them.

I, likewise, rarely delve into her "office" roller or her "clinical" roller, & when I do it's because she has called me from work & desperately needs some information from a file or from a book or a file on a usb drive e-mailed to her. I keep her on the phone while I'm finding it so that I don't have time to "snoop" beyond the required scope.

Yes, I open most of her mail ... the majority of the household financial stuff comes in her name while the business stuff comes in mine. She does well getting grades & student evals done on time but is lousy about paying bills & similar stuff on time.

Out of Respect I do not feel reading personal journals or even personal mail of the other spouse to be something a husband or wife does. There is or should be a basis of trust in a marriage, trust & respect both say you do not need to "snoop" or look into the personal private writings & conversations of the other.

All of these are tailored to each individual marriage. What you guys do in your marriage does not necessarily apply to somebody else's marriage.

And this is something that I can appreciate about why my Filipino dad did not speak to me for years after I married my American husband. There is something to be said about marrying within your culture because those kinds of things you mentioned have a different "traditionally understood boundaries" in Filipino culture as opposed to American culture. In Filipino culture, for example, privacy between spouses is close to nonexistent - including legally - whereas in American culture, spouses retain individual property so much so that a spouse cannot legally open the other's mail. That doesn't exist in Philippine law. You have to apply for legal separation (which basically means divorce except you can't remarry) if you want to be treated individually by the law.

Now, whether a spouse goes through stuff to "snoop" is a marital problem waaaaay deeper than privacy. Because, the desire to snoop is the problem - not that he/she can/can't.

[Bini]

Back to topic..

I haven't kept a journal in years, seriously decades, really. So instead, I have a massive cedar chest that I keep items of significant milestones, like graduation and getting married. When I remarried, I couldn't get myself to weed out memorabilia from my first marriage, despite it being mostly a train wreck. So for two years I held onto a handmade marriage plaque (the kind that reads: Mr. & Mrs. xx established xx), some tokens from the actual wedding day, and a box full of pictures taken during not-so-bad times. These were things that happened in my past, and yet, having them around meant that I could pick them up and think back on those events occasionally - the good and the bad. But I knew that keeping this stuff must be upsetting to my husband, even though he's not a jealous man. I had asked him one day what he thought about me keeping such things of me and my ex. He said that the items in the chest were mine and that he'd never ask my to get rid of anything inside of it. Shortly down the road, before the year ended, I decided to empty my chest of those very things. I knew that removing them would mean removing all traces of it ever happening (just like tearing journal pages out) - once it's done - it's done. I did it anyway and I felt good about it. I guess in a sense, it was therapeutic for me to let that stuff go, allowing me to start fresh and make new memories. Even though I no longer have tangible evidence of my life with my ex, I know it happened, and anything that's important from that time will either stick with me - or it won't. So whether it's a journal, or a cedar chest, the things kept within are the owners to keep or discard.

[Sharky]

Now, whether a spouse goes through stuff to "snoop" is a marital problem waaaaay deeper than privacy. Because, the desire to snoop is the problem - not that he/she can/can't.

That's exactly my point! Respect!

Basic respect says that if while cleaning a closet you come across your spouses old journal containing their personal private thoughts, you do not go reading thru it even though you may have implied or expressed permission.

Simple respect of privacy & yes, even spouses deserve some privacy.

Now the whole not opening your spouses mail thing, that is a gray area.

In a state that has community property laws ... say the car is registered in my wife's name but the states community property law gives me as her legal spouse residing at the same address an equal interest in the property ... then I do have the right according to the state to access mail addressed to her which I believe to be concerning the security of that property for the purpose of maintaining that interest.

Do I access that mail with an "evil" purpose? No. I access with her knowledge & full intent of paying the loan or the insurance so as to maintain both her interest & my interest in that property ... does that violate privacy or show a lack of respect?

[Leah]

That's exactly my point! Respect!

Basic respect says that if while cleaning a closet you come across your spouses old journal containing their personal private thoughts, you do not go reading thru it even though you may have implied or expressed permission.

Simple respect of privacy & yes, even spouses deserve some privacy.

Now the whole not opening your spouses mail thing, that is a gray area.

In a state that has community property laws ... say the car is registered in my wife's name but the states community property law gives me as her legal spouse residing at the same address an equal interest in the property ... then I do have the right according to the state to access mail addressed to her which I believe to be concerning the security of that property for the purpose of maintaining that interest.

Do I access that mail with an "evil" purpose? No. I access with her knowledge & full intent of paying the loan or the insurance so as to maintain both her interest & my interest in that property ... does that violate privacy or show a lack of respect?

So, you are saying that there is a state law that trumps the federal law that prohibits you from opening your spouse's mail? Which state is this? Could I have a link to that, please. I was recently dealing with a situation concerning mail tampering and I would be interested in this information. The attorneys made no mention of there being any state laws that overruled this particular federal law.

[missmollymormon]

If I were to put myself in your position, I would probably feel the same. However, there is a flip side to this, you see, I could easily be your wife. I joined the church at age 28. Like your wife, I have a 'past'. I am not proud of it, but it is there. It has helped mold me into the person I have become now that I am in the gospel.

I have always feared finding 'the one' that I will marry in the church and having to disclose my past to him. I am scared that he may feel the same way you do. I will deal with that when it comes, but I did voice this concern to my bishop who said to me 'do you really want to marry someone who doesnt understand the atonement?'

These past boyfriends of mine have helped me become the christian that I am now. They helped me learn what true love is about, because I have done wrong and learned from it, I am now able to appreciate the Lord's commandments when it comes to expressing love.

I wouldnt worry too much about her keeping the journal, I still have a momento from a previous relationship- a rose in fact. I keep it not due to residual attatchment to him, I keep it because it was the first rose I have ever recieved from a man.

I feel awful that the part of myself that should only be given to my future husband is long gone. I feel ashamed. But truth be told if I had my time over again things would be completely different.

My point is that your wife is probably hurting too. She probably wishes she could have her time over again to do things right.

But she cant, and neither can I.

Can you be strong enough to be the man to accept this? If christ can forgive her, can you?

I mighg be off the mark, but thats my personal experience. Try to look from her side.

[Sharky]

So, you are saying that there is a state law that trumps the federal law that prohibits you from opening your spouse's mail? Which state is this? Could I have a link to that, please. I was recently dealing with a situation concerning mail tampering and I would be interested in this information. The attorneys made no mention of there being any state laws that overruled this particular federal law.

NOPE! That's not what I'm saying; however, apparently some states think it does & the Feds don't seem to pursue certain "logical things" .... After all marijuana is still against Federal Law but it is sold legally in Colorado to anyone over 18 & anyone over 18 can possess an ounce .... & similarly Washington (or was it Oregon) has legalized it.

Usually the Feds apply some logic when a state law conflicts with the federal law.

If you want to get technical, under Federal Law you can NOT even remove from the mail box mail that is not specifically addressed to you, not your address but YOU or something to the effect of "Occupant" ... so I'd guess most every American adult is in violation of Federal Law frequently.

Contact an experienced attorney admitted to the Federal Bar if you want legal advise for "tampering". NOTHING is so cut & dried as "the law" ... written law, versus policy of application of the law, vs case law .... not to mention in the "alleged victim" or the public is very vocal or applying a lot of pressure for action against the perpetrator.

Can I shoot & kill a dog that is chasing &/or killing my livestock? YUP! Can I be prosecuted for animal cruelty for shooting that dog? YUP! Does the law also give me the right to shoot that dog that is chasing or harassing or worrying my livestock? YUP! Nothing when it comes to "the law" as we call it is so clear & cut & dried!

Edited January 13, 2014 by Sharky

[Sharky]

If I were to put myself in your position, I would probably feel the same. However, there is a flip side to this, you see, I could easily be your wife. I joined the church at age 28. Like your wife, I have a 'past'. I am not proud of it, but it is there. It has helped mold me into the person I have become now that I am in the gospel.

I have always feared finding 'the one' that I will marry in the church and having to disclose my past to him. I am scared that he may feel the same way you do. I will deal with that when it comes, but I did voice this concern to my bishop who said to me 'do you really want to marry someone who doesnt understand the atonement?'

These past boyfriends of mine have helped me become the christian that I am now. They helped me learn what true love is about, because I have done wrong and learned from it, I am now able to appreciate the Lord's commandments when it comes to expressing love.

I wouldnt worry too much about her keeping the journal, I still have a momento from a previous relationship- a rose in fact. I keep it not due to residual attatchment to him, I keep it because it was the first rose I have ever recieved from a man.

I feel awful that the part of myself that should only be given to my future husband is long gone. I feel ashamed. But truth be told if I had my time over again things would be completely different.

My point is that your wife is probably hurting too. She probably wishes she could have her time over again to do things right.

But she cant, and neither can I.

Can you be strong enough to be the man to accept this? If christ can forgive her, can you?

I mighg be off the mark, but thats my personal experience. Try to look from her side.

Thank You for bringing the discussion back to topic in such an eloquent way.

All too often I think we forget to think about what the other person may be feeling or experiencing, that we forget what we would hope for or want or feel if the roles were reversed.

[Quin]

OP... Consider these as well:

1) You have set your wife into an impossible position.

You want her past utterly erased from your view, and are also mad that she hasn't shared everything with you. That doesn't work.

I've dated a lot, so that IS something I've learned to ask new boyfriends: What do you want to know about my past? Some want to know everything. Some want to know nothing. And in between, some want to know generalities but not specifics, or are fine talking about their exes but not me mine, or vice versa I can talk all day about my exes but they don't want to talk about theirs. There is an infinite number of ways in which people approach the past. I RESPECT their wishes (or broke up with them). Meaning if I was dating a guy who didn't want to hear about my exes, I didn't talk about them. If said guy then got mad at me for

- not talking about them or

- friends who are not in our relationship not following OUR rules (happens)

Then things got dicey.

Because those are both impossible standards. I can't tell nothing and everything, nor can I make other people behave the way he wAnts ME to behave.

See what I mean?

Emotions aren't rational... So you're going to have to think this thing through, as you CANNOT have it both ways.

1.5) Also... She appears to have followed your rules. She told you the truth, in a way that you were comfortable with (sounds like you were/are fine with generalities, not specifics) . Then YOU broke your own rules... By reading her journals... And are now mad at her for knowing all the gory details. Doubly mad, for her respecting your wishes, and not telling you all the gory details. Although, conversely, if SHE was the one who is only fine with generalities and not details, then you just participated in a major breach of trust.

((Ahem. Why does this all sound like your fault? Because she hasn't lied to you. Nor has she asked you to do anything you were uncomfortable with. To the contrary, it sounds like she's bent over backwards to accommodate & respect you. She didn't invite dear or old friends to her wedding, she's not allowed to be alone/trusted around men she's dated, she's not allowed to associate with friends who may be indiscreet about her past. Yet, no matter what, you're still mad at her. She can't "win", and cannot make you happy... Because you want 2 opposing things from her.))

2) People's brains work differently.

Some people COULD just keep their pasts in their head, and never really think of it.

Others keep the past in their minds and think on it constantly (until writing it down, so they're no longer reviewing it mentally).

Some people write the past down, in order to remember it, as they'd forget otherwise

Other people write the past down, and never really think of it.

There are four examples... But there are really dozens of ways in which minds and memories function.

There is NO ONE WAY.

You want your wife's mind to work like yours.

It doesn't.

As evidenced by her telling you how her mind works, and you not believing her, because that's not the way your mind works.

You want her to show you respect, but that really needs to be a 2 way street.

She can't tell you to write everything down and keep them so that you won't obsess over it, if you obsess over things you write down & keep... And you can't tell her to burn all of her writings so that she doesn't obsess over them, if destroying them would CAUSE her to obsess over them.

2 different people.

2 different brains.

A person can change their mind.

A person cannot change their brain.

Just like a person can change the way they act in the present, but cannot change their past.

Your memory functions one way, hers functions another.

It's another impossible position you're placing her in... As she can't change her brain to function the way that yours does. She just can't.

Q

[Kirkko]

Thank you to all who have given their insights. I do feel the need to defend myself a bit though. I did not propose and get married thinking that would be the "cure-all". I knew going in as did she that I would still struggle with what I knew at the time, but as they say "time heals all wounds" and I had the hope that over time I would get over it. I did not think marriage would magically make evrything go away and I'll admit, the first year was really difficult for both of us.

As for how much to know or not to know; we had "the talk" where we covered our pasts or at least what she wanted to share, I had my issues, but they were resolving or at least I felt like they were. My point is, if that is all she wanted me to know then she should have made completely sure nothing else later would come out, especially if it was something like sleeping with or having oral relations with other guys. I feel like she should have been completely upfront while we dated in order for me to make a completely informed decision or she should have shared nothing at all while we dated and gotten rid of evidence of what she didn't want me to know. She chose to share some things, but did not get rid of the evidence of other things she did not share. I will admit that reading the journal was stupid and I learned things I didn't want to know and I regret doing it, but I do feel she has some responsibility in continuing to have something like that, which contains damaging things/materials. That is where I liken it to someone being addicted to porn and keeping the magazines or favorite websites on the computer despite knowing what their spouse would say/do if they found them.

I do not feel she still loves those guys, though she has told me she will always love them for being sher first loves; but I do feel like she loved them with more passion and thought about them first when it comes to sexual things more than she does me. Like, I've written before, she was willing to do whatever to took to keep these guys, even giving up on religion and her morals. I'm not demanding this and that in the bedroom, but if she at least acted like she liked being with me intimately and tried harder, it would make a world of difference. I'm actually intimidated to try and make moves on my wife because of how often she rejects me. She says it's not me it's her and where she is at at this time of her life, but it would be nice to feel like I am worth making an effort for. I feel like she used up almost all of her sexuality with other people and that saddens me a lot.

Intimacy for me has been difficult. There are things that she liked/didn't like, but she found these things out with other partners. Everything I know has been with her. Everything I like, I learned with her. I've been seeing a counselor, but I stopped with this one because she was not LDS and had me doing thought journals where I felt like I was focusing and thinking about my thoughts and feelings too much, even more than I normally do!

We are now in the process of working through LDS Family Services both individually and as a couple. We've only had the "get to know you individually" meetings. Hopefully this helps us out.

I am not a bad guy. I am just heart-broken.

[The Folk Prophet]

Give it 20 or 30 more years and those journals will be a non-issue as to the jealously, etc. I've discarded journals in the past that had what I considered embarrassing things in them. I really, really, really...........really, really regret that I threw them out now that I'm older. I would very much like that insight into the stupid kid I once was.

[Vort]

Give it 20 or 30 more years and those journals will be a non-issue as to the jealously, etc. I've discarded journals in the past that had what I considered embarrassing things in them. I really, really, really...........really, really regret that I threw them out now that I'm older. I would very much like that insight into the stupid kid I once was.

I feel the same way. I remember destroying a journal when I was about 13 because I was so ashamed by what I had recorded there. I wish instead I had found a way to secure the journal and that I could read it now. I think it would provide many personal insights and also give me some ideas for helping my own children.

[Gel182]

I have gotten rid of journals that I truly regret getting rid of...sure they had some embarrassing things, but time added perspective. In the case of past journals documenting sexual past experiences with other partners...I can't imagine at any point regretting not having that in my life or hoping that my spouse wanted to keep them around. Sorry, that's not healthy now, 30 years from now, or even after I'm dead. The lessons learned from repenting of sexual sin have their own imprint on your memory and I can't imagine that I need them written down in detail to remember them, learn from them, or heaven forbid, keep them for posterity. I'm sure the great-grandkids will want to read all about that.

[Lakumi]

I would never be rid of my journals, those are my most treasured memories and thoughts, no one can take that away from me.

I want to have that link to the past, and regardless of what anyone says, it is my past and I have a right to remember it.

[Kirkko]

I'm an insecure person. My wife and I had a big talk. I realize I've been emotionally abusing her for many years because of her past. I have a competition going on in my mind between her past and me; and I feel like I'll always lose.

She explained a lot of what was going on with her at those times in her life. She explained how as a teenage girl she loved those guys as much as she could, especially her high school love, and wanted to show them, yet faced the problem of showing them was bad. Her compromise was no intercourse, but everything else was fair game. She did not have one-night stands or casual sex, to her these were meaningful relationships that were progressing. She first had sex after a lot if pressure and she finally gave up on trying to say no. From there she gave in to one other guy. She told me her willpower has always been weak, but also that she knew what she did was bad, but did not feel bad because she did it out if love. She went back to guys who had cheated on her sexually multiple times and even said at one point she was going to choose one guy over God and her testimony.

She told me after we were engaged her past boyfriends called and asked what she was thinking and that she had a chance to leave me but didn't.

I guess my real problem is how do I get over this feeling of loss and betrayal. She has told me there are things she has done more with them than with me sexually and it makes me sad. I can't put a finger on exactly why it bothers me so much. I think it's jealousy, sadness that she put herself in those situations, anger because I don't get her all to myself sexually. I don't know.

I'm not sure about the atonement right now and God's love for me as an individual. I'm not sure Jesus understands my feelings, I'm not sure I can find true peace; yes I can not think about things, but they come back and there is still deep pain there. The ironic thing is, I seved a mission and taught people these things that I'm not sure about. I have a belief overall that the church is true, the atonement is real , etc, but not that personal deep conviction I feel I need to get me through this because in the end, if the atonement is real that is the only hope I have, otherwise I've gone crazy over things that don't matter, meaning, the law of chastity and virtue aren't important.

I'm kind of venting right now because I don't want this to be an issue, but I'm not sure I'm capable of overcoming it and loving my wife the way she deserves. I know I'm the problem, but if anyone has had truly deep despair, how did you overcome it? What changed your heart and how did it happen in an individual way? I pray, read scriptures, go to church; I'm temple worthy though the prayer circle is difficult for me as are some if the teachings about chastity. I just need that conviction I hear so many other people have. Please help.

[notquiteperfect]

The thought that came to my mind was to read "The Miracle of Forgiveness" by Kimball. I haven't read it myself but know that it's helped others and since that's what came to mind I figured it was worth mentioning.

[Lakumi]

I am not sure why you married her if that always bothered you, did you think her past was going to just vanish?

I can't quite grasp being mad over something like that, to me the past is unchangeable, if she is with me then I won...

Unless you let go of that, you'll never work with her. It will only brood more and more.

While I've had a lot of dispear (none of it being about marriage mind you) I didn't solve it with religion, so I imagine that's not up your ally.

Bottom line, you need help, more help then any stranger on the net can provide, or the future doesn't look kind for you.

[classylady]

If you're obsessing about this, you could have Retroactive Jealousy. RJ usually involves obsessive and unpleasant thoughts and emotions regarding a partner’s past relationships. Some people are troubled by the fact that their partner went through a “promiscuous phase” involving multiple lovers. Some people are troubled by the fact that their partner engaged in different types of behavior with different partners, or had more partners than themselves. Some people are troubled by the fact that their partner was once deeply in love and committed to another person. Some can be troubled over whether their spouse/partner even kissed another person. RJ usually involves intrusive and unwanted thoughts and mental images, and highly-charged emotional responses concerning a partner’s past. Look it up on the internet. There are all sorts of articles and posts on it.

Those with RJ know it's not rational. They play the video of what they imagine their spouse to have done with their ex's over and over in their mind. RJ sufferers have a hard time overcoming this. You may need therapy. RJ can also be linked to OCD.

The atonement is real. Your wife, if she has repented, has been forgiven. Virtue and chastity matter. Also, we have never been promised that if we remain virtuous, that we will marry a person that has always kept the law of chastity. That's the ideal. But, it's not a promise to us.

I think you're grieving over this. And it sounds like it's become obsessive. If you can, please seek counseling.

Edited February 6, 2014 by classylady

[Quin]

Even if you were the only person to ever feel this way, ever... Jesus would still feel it.

The Atonement is like a still place in time, where everything that ever was & everything that ever will be compressed into a single moment. A rather long, and unimaginably uncomfortable moment, granted. Although pain so great one bleeds from every pore hints at the unimaginable quality of the pain & suffering of all people that ever were or would be.

Which means yours.

And mine.

And our grandchildren's grandchildren.

And our ancestor's ancestors.

Not just, everything except what Mike Lebowski or Birgette Olufsen goes through. No cut off at 1624, or Sundays and holidays, or but this one is really embarrassing, so we'll leave it out.

Q

[zoom]

Kirkko,

I know exactly how you feel... in fact your post is the reason I just created an account here. I've suffered from the same thing, and unless you've actually suffered from it, you have no idea how miserable and tormenting it is. People will tell you "Just get over it", or try to explain why you shouldn't be bothered by these experiences, but it doesn't help. You agree with what they are saying, but i'ts like the part of your brain that regulates emotion just went haywire and is no longer listening to you. The rational side of you knows that these past events are irrelevant and that the feelings are unjustified, but you still feel the pain and torment as though these past events took place yesterday. It makes no sense, it's irrational, you know this... but that doesn't help the emotional torment.

I'ts like getting the sensation that your hand is on fire. You look down as see that it is fine. Everyone around you is telling you it's fine. You know there is no fire, but that doesn't make it hurt any less.

Maybe what you're going through isn't as severe as this... but Classylady got it right. You're suffering from Retroactive Jealousy. You need to go see a therapist... specifically one who works with EMDR. They are usually therapists who specialize in Trauma... but look into EMDR therapy.

I've suffered from this, along with the trauma of finding out my wife fooled around behind my back when we were dating, for years. YEARS! I've finally discovered EMDR and went to my first session a week or so ago. I've confident it will help me, and will post back here after a few weeks. Don't wait for it to just go away. It wont. Don't let it fester inside of you because it will just get worse.

This whole problem has caused me an enormous amount of anguish and was the primary instigator in me leaving the church, developing an immense amount of animosity and distrust for God and ultimately becoming atheist. To relive the most tormenting thoughts as though they are taking place in the present and having absolutely zero control of them and no where to run is the epitome of hell, and no one deserves to be put through that.

Find an EMDR therapist before these thought patterns become habit.