Seer Stone and a Hat Translating the Book of Mormon

[Vort]

A lie of omission is just as much a lie as a lie of commission. Knowingly not correcting a falsehood is the same as willful deception.

But that has nothing to do with what he said.

Furthermore, I disagree that keeping silent in the presence of falsehood is exactly the same as willfully deceiving someone.

[Vort]

I am happy they are setting the record straight....only took 150+ yrs.....

So, then, you are indeed agenda-driven. No matter what the Church authorities do, you will condemn them. If they don't "correct" the history to your liking, you will accuse them of lying and covering up. If they do, you will excoriate them for having taken longer than you think appropriate.

[estradling75]

I am happy they are setting the record straight....only took 150+ yrs.....

A record they only have to straighten out because because people took an artistic rendering as fact and neglected there own study. If it turns out the pictures that we use of Christ aren't correct either, are you also going to have issues with that?

[mdfxdb]

A record they only have to straighten out because because people took an artistic rendering as fact and neglected there own study. If it turns out the pictures that we use of Christ aren't correct either, are you also going to have issues with that?

What do you mean they're not correct??!!??!!

Jesus doesn't have a beard?

[NeuroTypical]

Knowingly not correcting a falsehood is the same as willful deception.

*sigh*

Just as a reminder of what's gone on earlier in the thread, you've already been directed to these links:

Account in Scripture: Extracts from the History of Joseph Smith, the Prophet Chapter 1

Orson Pratt and David Whitmer talked about it: Orson Pratt's Call to Serve

The Contributions of Martin Harris

1974: Friend Magazine: A Peaceful Heart

1992: BYU: Book of Mormon Translation By Joseph Smith

1993: A Treasured Testament - Ensign

1997: By the Gift and Power of God - Ensign

2002-present: Doctrine & Covenants Student Manual: Section 30 "Your Mind Has Been on the Things of the Earth"

January 2013: Great and Marvelous Are the Revelations of God

Great and Marvelous Are the Revelations of God - Ensign Jan. 2013 - ensign

Current: Book of Mormon Translation

mdfxdb, you're really starting to come across as a single-issue zealot here. Unable to change his mind, unwilling to change the subject. How on earth can all these links constitute "Knowingly not correcting a falsehood"?

Are you looking for something more like a statement from the church that we were wrong? Maybe something like this from Oct 2013: Top Mormon Leader Acknowledges the Church ‘Made Mistakes’

Honestly, I don't get why you're so dug in to this criticism.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[The Folk Prophet]

*sigh*

Just as a reminder of what's gone on earlier in the thread, you've already been directed to these links:

Account in Scripture: Extracts from the History of Joseph Smith, the Prophet Chapter 1

Orson Pratt and David Whitmer talked about it: Orson Pratt's Call to Serve

The Contributions of Martin Harris

1974: Friend Magazine: A Peaceful Heart

1992: BYU: Book of Mormon Translation By Joseph Smith

1993: A Treasured Testament - Ensign

1997: By the Gift and Power of God - Ensign

2002-present: Doctrine & Covenants Student Manual: Section 30 "Your Mind Has Been on the Things of the Earth"

January 2013: Great and Marvelous Are the Revelations of God

Great and Marvelous Are the Revelations of God - Ensign Jan. 2013 - ensign

Current: Book of Mormon Translation

mdfxdb, you're really starting to come across as a single-issue zealot here. Unable to change his mind, unwilling to change the subject. How on earth can all these links constitute "Knowingly not correcting a falsehood"?

Are you looking for something more like a statement from the church that we were wrong? Maybe something like this from Oct 2013: Top Mormon Leader Acknowledges the Church ‘Made Mistakes’

Honestly, I don't get why you're so dug in to this criticism.

I could not agree more. Which makes it entirely pointless to continue debating the issue with him.

[Finrock]

An important principle to recognize is that as an adult you can't blame others for your ignorance.

Nephi, when explaining the records that he kept said:

And now, as I have spoken concerning these plates, behold they are not the plates upon which I make a full account of the history of my people; for the plates upon which I make a full account of my people I have given the name of Nephi; wherefore, they are called the plates of Nephi, after mine own name; and these plates also are called the plates of Nephi.

Jacob also explained:

And a hundredth part of the proceedings of this people, which now began to be numerous, cannot be written upon these plates; but many of their proceedings are written upon the larger plates, and their wars, and their contentions, and the reigns of their kings.

Nephi further expounds upon the records he has kept:

And now I make an end of speaking concerning the things which I saw while I was carried away in the Spirit; and if all the things which I saw are not written, the things which I have written are true. And thus it is. Amen (Emphasis Added).

And finally, Nephi counsels us with the following:

And if my people desire to know the more particular part of the history of my people they must search mine aother plates.

Just like what Nephi did, the Church dedicates its curriculum to teaching the spiritual and weightier matters. If a person desires to know "the more particular part" of the history of the Church, Joseph Smith, ect., then all they have to do is begin studying the other sources of history which have been openly available in the past and even more so today.

-Finrock

Edited January 24, 2014 by Finrock
Spelling.

[jb789]

Book of Mormon Translation

The intentions of the illustration are irrelevant. It's not how it happened. Not once growing up in primary, sunday school, institute, my mission, BYU relition classes was it represented as it actually happened. I never once saw any reference to a seer stone or a hat...

I can actually relate very well to what you are describing - many of the details of church history (such as Joseph Smith having several wives) are indeed not taught in Sunday School/etc. Just like this seer stone translation history item, it too was specifically omitted from the general church curriculum (sunday school/etc).

While others may disagree with me, I believe the reason for such omissions is this: the church is very careful about the information it presents in the curriculum. It knows the faith of many (especially as there are many new converts) is tender. So, in my view they do indeed filter out many of the topics that many members would find hard to reconcile their faith with. Including this seer stone issue.

Why now do we see the seer stone/race and the priesthood/etc discussed on lds.org? Because the age of the internet has made these historical facts much easier to obtain for the regular church member. Now that these issues are more "out in the open" the church has chosen to address them directly. In the past such historical facts were harder to come across - as such they were largely ignored by the church, and not addressed as we see them being addressed today.

The fact is, there are a great many aspects of church history that differ from the "whitewashed" version we are taught in sunday school. Make no mistake - I still absolutely feel this is God's church on earth, Joseph led the restoration/etc. But certainly the church does withhold even true information sometimes if they believe it will do more harm than good to growing testimonies.