A Very Good Case For The Death Penalty!

[Fiannan]

If convicted give me one good reason these people should not all be executed?

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=55834

[sixpacktr]

Can't think of one, Fiannan. The level of depravity and cruelty is unbelievable.

I wonder where the cries of "hate crime" are?

[pam]

I read about this a few days ago. Horrible horrible crime. I as well can't come up with one good argument against the death penalty in something like this.

[shanstress70]

I read about this last week too, and couldn't understand why it was the first I've heard of it. I'm shocked at the fact that the media has kept quiet about this. It's an absolutely hideous crime and those perp's do not deserve the air they are breathing.

[JcDean78]

Not far from where I live and on my way through Knoxville I have passed that area many times. People here are talking a lot about it and everyone says those responsible should fry (Full disclosure, I live in a very conservative area).

[Dr T]

http://www.newnation.org/NNN-Black-on-White.html

Black on White crime link

http://www.racismeantiblanc.bizland.com/005/06-02.htm

Interracial crime stats from 2002

[the_jason]

I'm 200% in favor of the death penalty.

[shanstress70]

See Jason, there's something else we agree on! :)

However, I will clarify this by saying that in clear cut cases where there is no question of guilt, I'm pro-death penalty. If it hasn't been proven that the person is guilty, I'm not.

I'm 99% certain you feel this way about it too.

[the_jason]

Well obviously. The death penalty doesn't come until after someone has been found guilty.

[shanstress70]

Sorry, what I meant is that there is cut and dry info proving that the person is guilty of the crime... no circumstantial evidence or anything like that. I guess what I'm saying is that there can be no conflict with the jury whether the person is guilty or not.

The death penalty makes me very nervous to think that someone could possibly be put to death who is innocent.

... if that makes any sense.

[the_jason]

My wife says the same thing, but I do not think that is the norm. The vast majority of those on death row are guilty. I did an awesome Powerpoint on the death penalty a couple years ago. I wonder if I still have it.

[JcDean78]

It is very very hard to convict somebody and get the death penalty. Opponets of the Death Penalty have tried very hard to find ways to make people question it from the methods used to kill or to the guilt of the accused. To this date nobody who has even been executed has been proven innocent.

Recently there was a man who was executed and his "fans" swore he was innocent and said DNA evidence would prove it. It was a HUGE case because the anti DP crowd was almost for sure that they had finally found somebody who had been innocent who was executed. However once the DNA evidence came back, he was only proved absoultly guilty by it.

As I said, in court you have to prove to an unreasonable doubt with all in the jury in agreement. The evidence must be so strong and compelling that the DP must be used.

[pushka]

Here's one example of somebody in the UK who was executed and then proved to be innocent, the real murderer gave evidence that helped get the innocent man executed!

'John Reginald Halliday Christie was a 54 year old serial murderer and sexual psychopath who murdered at least 6 women. He also gave evidence at the trial of Timothy Evans, who was executed (later posthumously pardoned) for crimes almost certainly committed by Christie (who had served in the Army during World War One and been a Special Police Constable during the Second World War).'

http://www.stephen-stratford.co.uk/evans_christie.htm

[FrankJL]

Even if he does get the death penalty, he's still more likely to die of old age then of actually being executed at some point.

[Traveler]

Sorry, what I meant is that there is cut and dry info proving that the person is guilty of the crime... no circumstantial evidence or anything like that. I guess what I'm saying is that there can be no conflict with the jury whether the person is guilty or not.

The death penalty makes me very nervous to think that someone could possibly be put to death who is innocent.

... if that makes any sense.

I have heard it said that it is better to let 99 guilty off than it is to put one innocent person to death for a crime not committeded. I am concerned with this kind of logic.

Is a society really better off to have 99 murders free and knowing that they can get away with murder than it is for one innocent person to die? 99 murders verses one accidental death?

I realize that human life is valuable. Irealizee that justice should not ever convict one person that is innocent nor should justice ever let one guilty person go unpunished. The point is that if society is not interested in attempting to end crime as best as it can - that society is not just. Yes as good as a society tries they will make mistakes. But what is the perception? If a crime is committed what do you believe the chances are that the guilty will be caught? What do you believe the chances are that an excape goat will be punished for something they really did not do? I believe the general impression is that our current system will not convict cleaver people with lots of money to spend on lawyers and that certain groups are more likely to be convicted of something they did not do. In other words - I believe our legal system has lost it mission of justice.

The Traveler

[Guest mamacat]

i don't understand how anyone can condone murdering another person...even as punishment. it goes against everything JC taught.

[Dr T]

Jesus died for other's sin. He was innocent. He allowed it. Was it murder? Was it a justified murder? Was it suicide?

[Guest mamacat]

it was the penultimate example of turning the other cheek and all that. they took much more than his cloak. walkin' his talk, so to speak.

[Dr T]

He allowed his death for a higher purpose.

[Fiannan]

i don't understand how anyone can condone murdering another person...even as punishment. it goes against everything JC taught.

Jesus never condemned the death penalty. Also, what he said about a millstone around the necks of people who offend little children and then the perpetrator being caste into the ocean seems to imply that Jesus was not for turning the other cheek in regards to punishment for crime.

[Guest mamacat]

<div class='quotemain'>

i don't understand how anyone can condone murdering another person...even as punishment. it goes against everything JC taught.

Jesus never condemned the death penalty. Also, what he said about a millstone around the necks of people who offend little children and then the perpetrator being caste into the ocean seems to imply that Jesus was not for turning the other cheek in regards to punishment for crime.

Luke 17:1-4 [KJV]

Then said he [Jesus] unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come! It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones. Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

doesn't imply capital punishment....

[CrimsonKairos]

Killing someone is not automatically murder.

Stated another way:

Murder always involves killing.

Killing does not always involve murder.

Capital punishment is society's way of affirming the sanctity of human life.

It's one of those paradoxes whose logic is sophisticated and seemingly self-contradictory.

I believe that when you infringe on or violate the rights of others, you forfeit those rights yourself. A life cannot be given back once taken (unless you're God). When a murderer violates another citizen's right to live peacefully in society, the murderer must then forfeit their right to live.

Who values life less:

1.) Someone who murders another person?

2.) A society who lets the murderer live and have what he has stolen from his/her victim?

Let's look at a hypothetical dialogue to delve into the issue more deeply.

Pro-capital punishment: We should execute murderers.

Anti-capital punishment: We should let murderers live!

Pro: Why?

Anti: Because human life is sacred.

Pro: All human life?

Anti: Yes.

Pro: And is all human life equally sacred?

Anti: Oh yes!

Pro: So the life of a murderer is as sacred as the life of an innocent person?

That's my question. If we let a murderer live because of the belief that life is sacred, we assume that all life is equal in value, whether you're innocent or guilty. I disagree. I don't think all life is equal in value. Human lives may have been created equal in value, but by the actions of individuals, their guilt lessens the value of their life (not the worth of their soul, two completely separate concepts). In other words, the murderer is less fit to live than an innocent person.

Another problem with being against the death penalty: If you are opposed to executing a murderer who has already taken human life, how can you assent to the military going to war and potentially killing enemy combatants who haven't even taken life yet? It doesn't make sense. In that case, we'd be:

Letting a murderer live, a murderer who did take life.

Killing an enemy soldier because they might take life.

If we cannot kill a murderer, we certainly cannot kill an enemy soldier who might not have even taken life yet, and this leads to only one conclusion, which is that war is never justified--even in self defense--and no nation has the right to wage it for any reason. That is a conclusion I cannot endorse or support.

Society should have the right to take the life of murderers.

Nations should have the right to wage war in defense of themselves and their allies.

Now as for Jesus and the death penalty. Jesus, who is the Jehovah of the Old Testament, revealed the spiritual and civil laws that were to govern God's people, Israel, as a nation following their exodus from Egypt. Jehovah dictated that murderers be executed for taking human life (see Genesis 9:6; Numbers 35). In fact, the reason murderers are to be executed as given in Genesis 9:6 is precisely because man is created in the image of God. To allow murderers to take God-granted life is to devalue that life and God's image, whose likeness we bear.

When Jesus came to earth, he wasn't building Israel as a nation or founding them as a power among the nations of the earth. He had already given them their civil laws during Old Testament times (in essence, God wrote their criminal code ). He didn't need to give them new laws about how to deal with murderers. The fact that Jesus never said, "Abolish capital punishment and let murderers live in prison," shows that he implicitly affirmed his Old Testament approval of capital punishment.

[JcDean78]

Not killing these people is a greater evil. These people then either corupt or kill others while in prison or in some cases get paroled or escape and kill again. It is our duty to permantly remove these people form society and let them serve as an example to others.

Not to worry though, if one of the creeps comes into my home, I will save them the jury trial and the tax payers money and take care of it myself.

[Guest mamacat]

My dear brothers and sisters and friends, I come before you humbly and prayerfully. I wish to speak on the healing power of forgiveness.

In the beautiful hills of Pennsylvania, a devout group of Christian people live a simple life without automobiles, electricity, or modern machinery. They work hard and live quiet, peaceful lives separate from the world. Most of their food comes from their own farms. The women sew and knit and weave their clothing, which is modest and plain. They are known as the Amish people.

A 32-year-old milk truck driver lived with his family in their Nickel Mines community. He was not Amish, but his pickup route took him to many Amish dairy farms, where he became known as the quiet milkman. Last October he suddenly lost all reason and control. In his tormented mind he blamed God for the death of his first child and some unsubstantiated memories. He stormed into the Amish school without any provocation, released the boys and adults, and tied up the 10 girls. He shot the girls, killing five and wounding five. Then he took his own life.

This shocking violence caused great anguish among the Amish but no anger. There was hurt but no hate. Their forgiveness was immediate. Collectively they began to reach out to the milkman's suffering family. As the milkman's family gathered in his home the day after the shootings, an Amish neighbor came over, wrapped his arms around the father of the dead gunman, and said, "We will forgive you."1 Amish leaders visited the milkman's wife and children to extend their sympathy, their forgiveness, their help, and their love. About half of the mourners at the milkman's funeral were Amish. In turn, the Amish invited the milkman's family to attend the funeral services of the girls who had been killed. A remarkable peace settled on the Amish as their faith sustained them during this crisis.

One local resident very eloquently summed up the aftermath of this tragedy when he said, "We were all speaking the same language, and not just English, but a language of caring, a language of community, [and] a language of service. And, yes, a language of forgiveness."2 It was an amazing outpouring of their complete faith in the Lord's teachings in the Sermon on the Mount: "Do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you."3...

How could the whole Amish group manifest such an expression of forgiveness? It was because of their faith in God and trust in His word, which is part of their inner beings. They see themselves as disciples of Christ and want to follow His example.

President James E. Faust

Second Counselor in the First Presidency

General Conference 2007

the amish behaved in this way because they are opposed to the death penalty. it would be a contradiction for President Faust to relate this story as an example, then turn around and denounce the Amish for their beliefs. there are other forms of punishment available. of course President Faust does not discount the necessity of societal justice, but neither does he state anything about the death penalty.

the God revealed in the life of Jesus is a God of forgiveness and redemption, of love and compassion, in a word, a God of life. ~ catholic bishop

taking a life for a life is against the message and the purpose of Christ's mission. other forms of consequences exist. to use the death penalty as deterrence or vengence is wrong.

[Guest mamacat]

the following makes excellent sense ~

Whereas, society is increasingly alarmed about violent crime and available means to reduce it thus focusing attention on the death penalty as an acceptable legal remedy, and

Whereas, representatives of the church are sometimes called on to state a position on this issue and to join with interfaith groups attempting to offer moral guidance to the public, and

Whereas, data on the effectiveness of the death penalty as a means to deter violent crime is inconclusive, and

Whereas, application of the death penalty too often has appeared to discriminate against the poor, the minorities, and the undereducated, and

Whereas, faith groups of the Catholic, Orthodox, and Jewish traditions, as well as numerous Protestant denominations (Episcopal, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Methodist, Baptist, Brethren, Mennonite, Friends, Disciples, etc.) have rejected or urged extreme caution in adopting the death penalty as a punishment or deterrent for violent crime, and

Whereas, we share the belief of many of these faiths that the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ on the cross canceled the Old Testament teaching of an eye for an eye, and

Whereas, we share the belief that capital punishment of a person convicted of a crime is an unsatisfactory response which demeans and brutalizes society, therefore be it

RESOLVED, that the Standing High Council affirms that it is a faithful reflection of the life and teachings of Jesus Christ, whom we proclaim, to encourage society not to use capital punishment as a penal response to crime.

Reformed Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints

Death Penalty Statement

adopted by the Standing High council April 20, 1995