A Very Good Case For The Death Penalty!

[CrimsonKairos]

"Capital punishment is okay for the same reason spanking naughty kids is okay."

kids don't learn not to be naughty from being hit. they learn that hitting is ok when something makes you mad. they learn to hide their thoughts, motives and actions out of fear...hitting children causes as much psychological damage as hitting your wife.

I agree. I don't remember saying anything about hitting kids. I said spanking kids. My three older brothers and I had pretty strict parents growing up (well strict compared to other parents, lol). I'm glad they were strict. My dad was always in control. I never remember him hitting or yelling at us boys or my mom.

However, when we boys hurt each other, or cussed, or did something else pretty bad, my dad would take us calmly, bend us over one knee, and ask, "Do you know why you're being spanked?" Of course we always did, and so we'd say yes, it was because of such-and-such. Then he'd ask, "Do you think such-and-such is good or okay?" And of course we knew it wasn't, so we'd say no. Then he'd say, "That's why I'm spanking you."

Then we'd get spanked. Yeah it hurt. But my dad was calm the whole time, and we boys knew he didn't hate us. In fact, if it's possible, we knew he loved us while he was spanking us. He just wasn't an angry person and we knew he was a good father. He made sure we knew what we had done wrong, why it was wrong, and then spanked hard but not out of anger and not out of control.

I don't think it's okay to hit your kids or your wife. Open-hand spanking is hardly hitting, in my book. My parents never slapped us or did anything else to physically punish us other than spank us (though our mom wasn't always so controlled about it, lol).

As PC said, corporal punishment--if administered correctly--can be effective.

I guess I don't see capital punishment as vengeful or hateful or retributive because my father was none of those things when he punished us boys growing up. He was cool, calm, rational, and fair. We knew the rules. If we broke them, we got punished. Simple. And none of us hated our dad for it, and he didn't hate us.

That's one thing I've been trying to get across: punishment doesn't necessarily mean anger or hate or retribution. It sometimes can simply be a consequence to an inappropriate action.

[Traveler]

traveler,

What is this civilization you referred to? I'd be interested in knowing.

Thanks.

The Lucayans - Discovered by Christopher Columbus in 1492 on San Salvador (some historians think he landed on Cat Island), there were about 40,000 Lucayans living in The Islands Of The Bahamas. Columbus was the first to force many of these people into slavery

The Traveler

[a-train]

Wow,

OK, so are we to understand by 'The Law of the Church' in Section 42 that it is commanded that capital punishment be utilized by Church government, but should be restricted from the law of the land?

Also, how did Jesus's statement to the Pharisees support the law of Moses and it's decree of the death penalty in the case mentioned, but yet not support the death penalty so decreed? I am definitely in need of help on that one.

Now I can completely see the perspective offered by the LORD in John 8:7: 'He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.' Now, did the LORD here imply that had one been there without sin, he would have been qualified to stone her? Who had not sinned among the ancient people of Israel and was therefore worthy to perform the executions according to the Law of Moses? Seeing that all have sinned, how could there have been any executions so administered? Was such a qualification of total sinlessness required?

Without accusers, the woman could not be convicted and thereby punished. As Jesus said: 'Woman, where are those thine accusers?' And then: 'Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.' Wasn't this how Jesus defused the woman's deadly predicament? He didn't appeal to any function of the law, but didn't He 'convict' her accusers 'by their own conscience' that they ceased from their charges?

Furthermore, had Jesus answered: 'If she indeed is guilty, let her be stoned according to the law' what would such an answer have provided the scribes and Pharisees 'that they might have to accuse him'? Were they perhaps seeking His approval of capital punishment under the Law of Moses that they might feel justified in consigning Him to such treatment? Was there another function at work there also that they sought to take advantage of?

Just so everyone understands, it matters little to me whether there be any death penalty or not. If the LORD commanded it, I would support it, otherwise, I would not worry about it. My personal opinion about our current criminal justice system in the U.S. is that the sentencing to prison of so many thousands in this country is a far greater problem than the relatively smaller death penalty issue. Prisons are perpetuating crime and iniquity in this country at an unprecedented rate and there seems to be little outcry.

-a-train

[FrankJL]

My personal opinion about our current criminal justice system in the U.S. is that the sentencing to prison of so many thousands in this country is a far greater problem than the relatively smaller death penalty issue.

Exactly.

and when you consider a lot of our prison population is in jail for victimless crimes, it makes even less sense to imprison people for these offenses.

I don't know...maybe its just my libertarian views.

[prisonchaplain]

If I'm not mistaken, when Libertarians say "victimless crimes" they have in mind prostitution, underground gambling, pornography, and, of course, illegal drugs.

[FrankJL]

Yes your understanding is correct.

Though I wouldn't put pornography in that category. It isn't a crime, unless your talking underage stuff, and that wouldn't be something a libertarian, or for that matter anyone with common sense, would support as being legal.

[tiancum]

This divine law for shedding the blood of a murderer has never been repealed. It is a law given by the Almighty and not abrogated in the Christian faith. It stands on record for all time—that a murderer shall have his blood shed. He that commits murder must be slain. "Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed." I know there are some benevolent and philanthropic people in these times who think that capital punishment ought to be abolished. Yet I think the Lord knows better than they. The law he ordained will have the best results to mankind in general. (Penrose, Charles)

Is it the prerogative of the Church to inflict the punishment? No! The Lord has given commandment that all offenses worthy of death shall be handled by the courts of the land as declared in the Doctrine and Covenants, "And it shall come to pass, that if any persons among you shall kill they shall be delivered up and dealt with according to the laws of the land

It is not the churches duty to inflict C.P. It is the governments. As in days of the new testament. It was not the churches duty then either, ie. pharisees and the woman, CHrist's death.

THe churches official stance is that there needs be C.P.

Hope this helps clear up things.

[a-train]

Even with the benefit of victims, prison often increases the burden on the public and prevents any real restitution. A man who robs houses and is caught never repays any damages. The victims appeal to their insurance or go without if they have none. Meanwhile the criminal goes to prison to live off of us working folk out here. How much sense does this make?

DO YOU NEED MONEY?

ARE YOU WAY BEHIND ON BILLS?

CREDITORS JUST WON'T STOP CALLING?

HAVE NO FEAR! PRISON IS HERE!

THAT'S RIGHT, ACT NOW AND YOU COULD GO TO ONE OF OUR NICE GETAWAY RETREATS!

IMAGINE NO MORE CALLS FROM THOSE COLLECTORS!

NO FEARS ABOUT BEING EVICTED!

ALL THE STRESS AND STRAIN OF A JOB GONE!

DON'T DELAY, ACT NOW! ROB A BANK, KILL THAT GUY YOU'VE ALWAYS HATED, GO STEAL SOME CARS!

AND REMEMBER, YOU'LL BE ABLE TO FINALLY GET THAT OPERATION YOU'VE BEEN NEEDING, OR THE MEDICATION YOU'VE BEEN GOING WITHOUT! THAT'S RIGHT, WE OFFER HEALTH INSURANCE!

SO COME ON, KILL, STEAL, AND WE WILL TAKE ALL YOUR PROBLEMS AWAY!

We might as well have these adds in circulation. Now I can see that the wealthy do not see prison this way, but how many of these criminals started out wealthy?

-a-train

[Dr T]

LOL a-train. Sad, but true.

[FrankJL]

Meanwhile the criminal goes to prison to live off of us working folk out here. How much sense does this make?

Most of them are living off us before they even go to prison too, welfare, food stamps, housing entitlements, ect, ect.

[Guest mamacat]

i'm not a criminal by any stretch of the imagination. i recently ended a marriage of endless mental, emotional, verbal and physical abuse. if it weren't for my fear for my son, i would have stayed in the marriage, as i did for much much too long, because i felt it my obligation to try unceasingly. however, i know that eventually the damage to my son would be permanent, as the abuse escalated as time went on, in spite of every effort that i made. in fact the harder i tried, the worse it became, and i finally became aware that this is a very classic and widespread pheomenon described in hundreds of books about the matter. i did what i had to do for the sake of my son, and now we live with nothing but the very minimal sustenance. and actually, i am very grateful for this, as i feel blessed that we made it through all that still relatively intact. although we are still subject to the abuse on occasion, at least we live separately from it now. before my son's birth, i put every bit of money i made into my ex-husband. it went for his enormous credit card his bills, his tuition, our rent, everything....and now because of my faith in him and our marriage, i am in a situation that has left me without any support or finances to pay debt that i incurred for him. anyway, my point is, that i am required to seek public assistance for health insurance (for me). it is a necessity as a responsibility for my son. so just because people require such things, esp temporarily, does not imply criminality and it's insulting to insinuate that.

as for corporal punishment, i really believe that there is a reason for its non-existence in our criminal justice system. because it's wrong, and it teaches nothing positive, and plenty negative.

spanking is hitting. regardless of the manner in which it is done. my mother's concept of 'spanking' was to whip us with a thick metal ruler with holes in it. the holes helped it to catch the wind and add a stinging touch. this punishment, quite frequent, for most 'offenses' (i usually didn't even know what the offense was), was conducted on our bare skin, bent over, purposely she would tell us, to inflict stinging red/blue welts -- not on our backsides, but on the tenderest flesh on the inside of the thighs -- in the most sensitive area. sometimes with broken skin. and this she always did in the calmest coolest manner imaginable. that is way more disturbing to me than physical punishment done in anger. usually my dad would beat us, just with his hands (though he was very very strong!) and in vehement anger. but we could always tell that his was done out of quick temper, and for some reason, this made it a little more tolerable, than the very cruel, meditated fashion of my mother.

and my mother always explained that this was simply how she showed her 'love' for us. please. learning to equate love with physical pain is very dangerous indeed. believe me i know. my relationships in my adult life are all fraught with sexual/physical abuse.

and it was acceptable at my public school as well. in 7th/8th grade all the sports coaches in my school were male, in girl's sports as well. the uniforms we were given were short, tight stretchy nylon shorts and thin cotton t-shirts. i can remember more than a few occasions, one especially, when the coaches were in our locker room before a game-- one of these coaches called me over to him, and as i stood there, he gave me a long, slow repeated up and down caress with his eyes, lingering on specific parts of my body, saying repeatedly, mmmm mmmm mmmm.

these same coaches took every opportunity to give us 'licks' as they called them, for imaginary 'offenses.' one of these many offenses that i incurred was due to my being sick, thus being late for team practice (1 minute). standard 'punishment' ~ coach called me to his office, in my short tight shorts, made me bend over a bench while he whacked my backside and the very tips of my bare thighs with a large wooden paddle, very hard. we only had a very short time to dress after practice, and i did so as fast as i could, with bruised and aching inner thighs and sobs. however, he had taken his time hitting me, i must say that i think these coaches enjoyed this very much, and the time that we normaly had to dress was barely enough to make it to class on time as it was. as his 'punishment' made me late for class, he then informed me that he would have to punish me for that as well, so we repeated the entire thing in the principal's office. my body was black and blue from my waist down to my inner thighs on my backside for weeks. and this happened with great frequency, with several different coaches, male teacher, male principal, with every grade in the school, from 6 to 12. it was standard practice.

there was no one more calm cool and rational in meting out this 'punishment' than those very strong men. they reveled in it. telling us the entire time that it was part of our education -- societal 'love'.

i tell you what, being treated in a very sexual manner by grown men in junior high, combined with their frequent physical punishment on delicate body parts is not the way to teach, or to engender healthy adults.

there is no hitting that can be equated with love. to do so causes emotional distress that is very difficult to overcome. and 'qualifying' the level of the hitting isn't feasible either. a grown man hitting a child has no idea of the delicate nature of a child's body, esp a very young child. i know this well. from my own experience, and what i see my ex-husband desirous of doing to my son, in his inability to control his impatience and rage.

hitting children, physical punishment is outlawed in many countries and should be here as well. that it's against the law to hit adults either civilly or criminal, but ok, and even encouraged, to hit children, in whatever manner, is absurd.

[BenRaines]

Sounds like a bunch of perverts at your school mamacat.

Not sure what that has to do with capital punishment vs corporal punishment. Capital punishment is what is given for certain crimes. Corporal punishment can be as little as minor slap of a hand up to and including the abuse you describe.

Ben Raines

[prisonchaplain]

Even with the benefit of victims, prison often increases the burden on the public and prevents any real restitution. A man who robs houses and is caught never repays any damages. The victims appeal to their insurance or go without if they have none. Meanwhile the criminal goes to prison to live off of us working folk out here. How much sense does this make?

DO YOU NEED MONEY?

ARE YOU WAY BEHIND ON BILLS?

CREDITORS JUST WON'T STOP CALLING?

HAVE NO FEAR! PRISON IS HERE!

Actually, up to this point, bankruptcy would do the trick.

THAT'S RIGHT, ACT NOW AND YOU COULD GO TO ONE OF OUR NICE GETAWAY RETREATS!

The days of "Club Fed" are long gone.

IMAGINE NO MORE CALLS FROM THOSE COLLECTORS!

NO FEARS ABOUT BEING EVICTED!

Actually, most of our folk wish we would evict them.

ALL THE STRESS AND STRAIN OF A JOB GONE!

Federal inmates are required to work full-time, and my guess is that most state systems are similar in their requirements.

DON'T DELAY, ACT NOW! ROB A BANK, KILL THAT GUY YOU'VE ALWAYS HATED, GO STEAL SOME CARS!

AND REMEMBER, YOU'LL BE ABLE TO FINALLY GET THAT OPERATION YOU'VE BEEN NEEDING, OR THE MEDICATION YOU'VE BEEN GOING WITHOUT! THAT'S RIGHT, WE OFFER HEALTH INSURANCE!

While this rankles some, nobody is suggestion that we just let sick inmates get sicker and die...I hope???

SO COME ON, KILL, STEAL, AND WE WILL TAKE ALL YOUR PROBLEMS AWAY!

We might as well have these adds in circulation. Now I can see that the wealthy do not see prison this way, but how many of these criminals started out wealthy?

-a-train

Your post is humorous and ironic. However, be assured, very very few inmates find our facilities and the micro-socialist societies we operate a first-choice lifestyle. Prisons are expensive to operate. However, make them cheaper, and you make society brutal. Let criminals run loose, and society will lose far more than the cost of incarceration.

[Guest mamacat]

Sounds like a bunch of perverts at your school mamacat.

Not sure what that has to do with capital punishment vs corporal punishment. Capital punishment is what is given for certain crimes. Corporal punishment can be as little as minor slap of a hand up to and including the abuse you describe.

Ben Raines

i think the conversation began with the following ~

***"the only punishment that recognizes the value of life is execution."***

***"that's a contradiction in terms. it's like hitting a child as punishment for hitting. the child only learns that hitting is appropriate for communicating displeasure. he doesn't learn the reason for not hitting....he doesn't learn values or respect for others. he learns fear, and dissimulation."***

and from there ~

***"You keep looking at murder like a sin.

Society doesn't view it as a sin. Society is separate from religion or spirituality.

Society doesn't need to "forgive the sinner to be forgiven." Society merely enforces laws which punish the guilty and protect the innocent."***

***"my point: murdering as a form of protection doesn't "protect." it is as RLDS concluded ~ it brutalizes society. if that were the case then corporal punishment would be acceptcable as well. just as it is in muslim countries."***

***"Society makes law, and enforces law. Murderers are brutal. Society must be brutal to them in turn."***

***"i wasn't comparing the U.S. to muslim countries. the opposite in fact. i was saying that by your logic that corporal punishment would be an acceptable form of punishment as well. countries where corporal punishment is acceptable and enforced are muslim. are we like that? God forbid that we are.

see?

and by reciprocating with brutality, we are in effect, condoning it."***

and then the conversation took a turn in support of corporal punishment for children.

my previous post was in response to this.

a minor slap on the wrist is still corporal punishment. we shouldn't hit at all to convey our displeasure. children will learn that this is the appropriate way to communicate displeasure, and it in no way is.

saying it's ok to slap on the wrist leads to other types of hitting. how do you differenitate? you can't. they don't understand. and most adults, once they hit to convey displeasure, will use this in place of more time and attention consuming methods just because it is easier and more temporarily effective.

[a-train]

PC,

Although I fully understand your position and know that most inmates want there freedom, it still is a fact that widows in this country pay taxes to imprison their husband's killers and offer them things they themselves may not be able to afford while the killer owes her nothing. This is what I am getting at. We need restitution to find it's place in our system again. Who is to pay the damages? Currently the victims do, and then some.

Oh yeah, society as a whole is doing fine, and this all seems real cheap. But, that widow with three kids living a life of slavery doesn't find it cheap and you won't find her in agreeance.

We keep locking people up and they just keep coming. They go back and back and back again. They get their friends to join too. Prison is a school of crime. Young friends of mine came out knowing better how to do more crime than to assimilate with society and be productive. Add to that the fact that they can't get an honest job because of their record and they are sealed to a life of crime.

Instead of enabling men to work and repay their debts, we impoverish them and make the addicts of our support.

Don't you agree that we have a very large number of people in the prison system that have no place there? Wouldn't a very different solution be suitable for a great deal of them, especially the drug offenders?

-a-train

[prisonchaplain]

PC,

Although I fully understand your position and know that most inmates want there freedom, it still is a fact that widows in this country pay taxes to imprison their husband's killers and offer them things they themselves may not be able to afford while the killer owes her nothing. This is what I am getting at. We need restitution to find it's place in our system again. Who is to pay the damages? Currently the victims do, and then some.

There is no restitution for abuse, violence, murder, etc. Most correctional systems do have restitution programs, but of course, inmates can only repay a token amount, since their wages have been significantly curtailed. Nobody should be fulled in to thinking that prisoners truly pay their debts to society and their victims. Rather, prisons protect societies for a season, and attempt to house inmates in a safe, humane manner, while offer a few opportunities for improvement to the truly willing.

Oh yeah, society as a whole is doing fine, and this all seems real cheap. But, that widow with three kids living a life of slavery doesn't find it cheap and you won't find her in agreeance.

Victims of crimes, criminals, and human beasts deserve sympathy and support. Societies approach to protecting itself from these same folk is a different matter alltogether.

We keep locking people up and they just keep coming. They go back and back and back again. They get their friends to join too. Prison is a school of crime. Young friends of mine came out knowing better how to do more crime than to assimilate with society and be productive. Add to that the fact that they can't get an honest job because of their record and they are sealed to a life of crime.

The two approaches that seem to work at preventing recidivism (repeat offenders) are religion and education. Inmates who get in touch with their faith in a sincere and meaningful way are much less likely to return. Those who get their diplomas are also much more likely to do well when they get out.

The problem is that people say, "Yeah, but there are plenty of law-abiding people that don't have good opportunities..." True enough. Yet, we know how to reduce the # of repeat offenders. Putting resources towards prison education and religious programming is a "cheap" way to protect ourselves from future crimes.

Instead of enabling men to work and repay their debts, we impoverish them and make the addicts of our support.

I don't get this. YOu want to employ criminals so they can pay their victims back???

Don't you agree that we have a very large number of people in the prison system that have no place there? Wouldn't a very different solution be suitable for a great deal of them, especially the drug offenders?

-a-train

For minor drug offenders courts often do allow alternatives, such as in-house treatment programs. Most drug-related offenses that result in prison are already in the "repeat" category.

[a-train]

I don't get this. YOu want to employ criminals so they can pay their victims back???

Absolutely! If you break into a business and steal from it, you should have to pay it all back, the booty, the damage, the whole nine! Is this too much to ask?

A man who takes the life of the bread-winner of a family should.... you guessed it, support that family!

A rapist who injures and rapes a young woman should pay for all of her treatments plus lost wages and any other damages incurred by the victim due to the crime.

Inmates can only repay a token amount, since their wages have been significantly curtailed.

My point exactly. Why? What purpose does it serve that we curtail their employment and put them to doing NOTHING. I'm certain I don't need to tell you about the school of thought that says that when criminals see their victims and the aftermath of their crime against them it can help bring about rehabilitation. Our current system shields them from that. They don't even have to know about the years of hardship their victims may endure after they are long gone. Not only do they not pay the costs of their crimes, they don't even have to know about it!

Now some would say an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth is old school and forgiveness is in order, but I don't see how prison somehow offers anything better.

Now, do I want to employ the criminals? Well sure, if I know them. I have a friend who got out of Federal Prison Saturday. I intend to hire him to help me with my business as much as I can. I honestly believe he could have been rehabilitated without the time he spent in Federal Prison. The checks placed on him now during his parole could have served the same purpose the day after court.

What purpose did the last three years serve? Did it help him? The bank he robbed? His children? Society? What was accomplished? Were we, the public, safe from him? He's out now, are we no longer safe? Did he become safe the day they released him?

I honestly think that if we placed on criminals the actual burdens of their crimes they would actually think about it twice. Prison evidently doesn't make them think enough.

Don't get me wrong, there are those who are past help. There are those who can never go back to society. But I believe them to be the tiny few and not the great majority of those who are in or have been to prison.

-a-train

[CrimsonKairos]

In Voltaire's book "Utopia," he gives an interesting model for dealing with criminals.

The bleeding hearts would never stand for it though.

[FrankJL]

In Voltaire's book "Utopia," he gives an interesting model for dealing with criminals.

The bleeding hearts would never stand for it though.

I thought Sir Thomas Bacon wrote Utopia?

or perhaps they both did..

Bacon's idea in his little island was slavery, if we are thinking of the same book..

The most interesting thing I thought of that little society was very open as far as peoples beliefs, they strong discouraged atheism, because atheists did not believe in any afterlife, and therefore they wouldn't try to do good works because they where not expecting any afterlife to be judged in.

[shanstress70]

Mamacat,

I'm so sorry at all you've gone through. Although there are good men out there (trust me, I FINALLY found one and married him after going through a lot of jerks), there are LOTS of bottom of the barrel scum as well. I'm surprised at how prevalent abuse is that you have spoken of. I know that you will be able to put your past behind you and find a wonderful man to share your life with... sorry your ex was such a jerk. I can tell you are a wonderful person with so much to give!

I still disagree with you about capital punishment though.

However, I agree with you about spanking. I don't think our children should be hit for any reason... and CK, I hate to tell you but spanking IS hitting. No matter how you try, you can't get past that. It makes no sense to hit our children, unless you want them to grow up to hit people. My child has never been spanked and I'm very proud of that. This is not to say he hasn't been disciplined though... funny how some people equate the two.

[sixpacktr]

However, I agree with you about spanking. I don't think our children should be hit for any reason... and CK, I hate to tell you but spanking IS hitting. No matter how you try, you can't get past that. It makes no sense to hit our children, unless you want them to grow up to hit people. My child has never been spanked and I'm very proud of that. This is not to say he hasn't been disciplined though... funny how some people equate the two.

Shanstress,

Have to disagree with you there. I think that spanking does have a place. My kids were spanked, and they have told me that it didn't harm their precious psyches, didn't mar them for life, etc. They have stated that they will do it to their children as well. My kids are well adjusted adults and we have a great relationship.

Physical abuse, to me, would be to hit for no reason, to use a fist, to slap a face, etc. A whack on the butt never harmed anyone. The current belief that these are logical, understanding beings is beyond me. They are kids!

[prisonchaplain]

A-train,

You seem to be arguing for "supervised release" for many crimes that currently garner incarceration. I can guarantee you that a rape victim would much rather see her assailant incarcerated than offered the kind of high-paying job that would pay for her treatment.

Additionally, you will get the argument from the private sector that these criminals are being given jobs that innocents are being bumped ot of. As an example, the federal system operates Federal Prison Industries. The idea was to give inmates meaningful skilled employment, so when they go out they'll have marketable abilities. It's a great program, and the products it supplies have been "mandatory source" for many government agencies.

FPI is a program that works. However, congressman from districts with small industries that could not compete with FPI for government contracts continuously lobbied saying, "Our people did NOT commit crimes--yet are prohibited from vying for this business." In the end, the mandatory source status was largely revoked, and the program was gutted. So, the idea has a ring of logic to it, but society will not countenance it.

[FrankJL]

So not only do we have to worry about illegals coming from Mexico to take away our low skill jobs, but we have to compete against prisoners too?

[shanstress70]

<div class='quotemain'>

However, I agree with you about spanking. I don't think our children should be hit for any reason... and CK, I hate to tell you but spanking IS hitting. No matter how you try, you can't get past that. It makes no sense to hit our children, unless you want them to grow up to hit people. My child has never been spanked and I'm very proud of that. This is not to say he hasn't been disciplined though... funny how some people equate the two.

Shanstress,

Have to disagree with you there. I think that spanking does have a place. My kids were spanked, and they have told me that it didn't harm their precious psyches, didn't mar them for life, etc. They have stated that they will do it to their children as well. My kids are well adjusted adults and we have a great relationship.

Physical abuse, to me, would be to hit for no reason, to use a fist, to slap a face, etc. A whack on the butt never harmed anyone. The current belief that these are logical, understanding beings is beyond me. They are kids!

Children are logical and understanding beings! You're truly saying they aren't? I don't pretend to know everything, and perhaps I'm harming my child by NOT spanking him, but I certainly don't think so. It just doesn't make sense to me to say, "Don't hit," then I hit him. It just seems like you're teaching them that this is the solution to problems they have.

I don't judge anyone who chooses to spank, but I just feel strongly that it's not the right thing to do. It is harder to parent without spanking, and maybe spanking teaches them in the short term not to do the undesired action. But to me it will just make them not do the action bc they might get hit for it... not bc it's not the right way to behave.

[a-train]

I understand the arguements against 'supervised release', and I understand why people think the innocent should have jobs before the criminals in this country. But what makes no sense is that the innocent work jobs so that the criminals don't have too. WE pay their bills.

No matter what we do, someone will object. If we make a huge factory for widgets and employ criminals there, Big Wigs Inc. will cry about it. If we put the bad guys to work cleaning roads and cutting grass, Stephens Commercial Lawn Resources Inc. will cry too. Right now, we are all crying, or should be. Those few corporations can find other avenues.

Chain Gangs, productivity, whatever it takes, I think this is what criminals need. They should not be sitting in a cell writing a book or conducting criminal activity through a network that goes to the outside. They shouldn't have time for all that. They should be able to pay for their rent, clothes, insurance, food, and restitution. How can they do this in a cell? And right now, we are paying that.

Surely there is a better way. There are some countries in this world that have no prisons. Sure, they do lashings, beheadings, and so forth, but the crime is low and the price is certainly cheap. While we can do something better in this prosperous nation of ours, I don't think prison is the right idea and it doesn't seem to be working. We just keep building more and more and they just keep coming. Where will this end?

1 in 138 Americans are in prison (.724%), the highest on the globe and climbing. China is at .118%, Mexico is .191, Russia is the second highest at .581%, Japan is at .060%. We need a solution before we see 1%, 5%, 10%.

I'm not saying we should just release all the criminals and forget the thing. But, the cruel and unusual punishment of a life of poverty and addiction to this lame system is just not working.

I personally think all 1st degree murderers and rapists should hang the day after their conviction just like the old days. Cheap, quick, and no possibility for further offenses. Other non-prison punishments and rehabilitative acts could work with lesser crimes.

Just my thoughts.

-a-train