What would you do?

[Wingnut]

I just entered into a discussion on Facebook, on a friend's page, about Bill Clinton and a book report.

My friend says:

[son] has to do a President report for 1st grade and who did he choose to do his report on? Bill Clinton. Uh.... no way. I'm making him take the book back tomorrow and get a new president. Does that make me one of "those" parents? Maybe. ‪#‎idontcare‬

After 33 comments of people validating her and talking about what an awful person Clinton was, with a small smattering of people talking about his political successes (budget surplus, jobs, etc.) as well as his historicity (he was impeached), my friend tried to shut down the conversation with this:

Bottom line, I don't care if Clinton balanced a budget or saved puppies from a burning building. He had an affair, lied about it, and still walks around like he is God's gift to America and I am not down with my son doing a report on an adulterer and a liar. There are many other presidents with higher morals and standards that [son] can research and Clinton is at the bottom of that list.

So, my question is what would you do? Would you make your child choose a different president (she made it clear in comments that he just picked up a random book from the pile, and wasn't specifically assigned Clinton)? Would you use it as a teaching opportunity? Would you expect that the books a first grader would be researching from won't have pictures of a blue dress in them?

[Jenamarie]

Every president, regardless of his morals, has had an impact on this country, and therefore I wouldn't object to my child learning about them (perhaps skipping over some details until they're a bit older ).

[Lakumi]

If any children I had were anything like me, they'd pick the most obscure one

[beefche]

And anyone who thinks that any political figure is pure and innocent is very naive or just dumb.

I would let him do it. Each president is a historical figure, whether I agree with his politics or his personal life.

[prisonchaplain]

Wow...first grade, huh? Not sure how in depth such a report will be--unless all the parents are living vicariously through their kiddos' reports. That said, let the child do his/her report.

I'm kinda like Lakumi though--Rutherford B. Hayes never looked so good!

[Lakumi]

Wow...first grade, huh? Not sure how in depth such a report will be--unless all the parents are living vicariously through their kiddos' reports. That said, let the child do his/her report.

I'm kinda like Lakumi though--Rutherford B. Hayes never looked so good!

I think I'll pick James A. Garfield

not sure why everyone back then could grow such awesome beards (or why early Mormons were the best at it)

Edited February 11, 2014 by Lakumi

[pam]

I would never have my child pick another person. Bill Clinton is part of history bottom line. As others have said. Very few in history are pearly white.

[prisonchaplain]

Pam, be honest. You just don't want to help your kid research the likes of James Garfield or Rutherford B. Hayes. So, you are choosing the easy way out. :-)

(I am joking, btw!)

[pam]

Seriously as a 1st grade report, how detailed does it have to be. When they were born, death date if any...where they grew up...blah blah blah.

If the report as a 1st grade gets in details about affairs, there is something wrong with the parent writing the report for them.

[beefche]

I missed that this was a first grader. Now, it seems even sillier for this woman to get her panties in a twist. Good grief, people love to make mountains out of nothing.

[pam]

So did this mother tell the child why they couldn't do one on Bill Clinton?

[Guest]

My opinion - that parent did a BAD move.

This is FIRST GRADE. It would be much harder for her to explain to her child WHY he can't do his report on Bill Clinton (because she will have to touch on the moral aspect) than for her to just let the child make a FIRST GRADE report on Bill Clinton (touching only major events in Clinton history and benign fun facts - like he was the 2nd youngest President when he was elected, during his Presidency, he was one of only two left handed Presidents that served 2 consecutive terms - GHW Bush is the other one, he played the saxophone, etc.).

But, even if this was a college paper, it is stupid and silly to choose to do an in-depth study and write something only about important figures who share your moral standards. I wrote a paper on Elizabeth Taylor in college. In the Philippines. Where divorce is illegal and getting married twice - let alone 8 times - while the husbands are living gets people talking...

Edited February 11, 2014 by anatess

[Dravin]

That just seems weird to me. The objection (as quoted) isn't, "In researching Clinton my child will encounter age inappropriate material." but rather, "Clinton was a bad man. No child of mine will do a book report on a bad man." The first I can kinda understand, the later is just foreign to me. I can only imagine what happens when her child is tasked to do a book report on Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Dravin

[Guest]

That just seems weird to me. The objection (as quoted) isn't, "In researching Clinton my child will encounter age inappropriate material." but rather, "Clinton was a bad man. No child of mine will do a book report on a bad man." The first I can kinda understand, even if I personally disagree, the later is just foreign to me. I can only imagine what happens when her child is tasked to do a book report on Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany.

Or if he gets assigned to do a report on King Henry VIII, Marie Antoinette, or Napoleon Bonaparte as they study France in their World History class...

Oh, but they're not Democrats... so maybe she won't object.

[Anddenex]

I would prefer my son to learn more about a different President than a President who lied under oath, but that is just me.

If the homework given, is an assignment he could choose and not an assignment given by the teacher...yes...easy answer for me...learn about a different President.

Either way...I don't see a right or wrong in this scenario.

[Lakumi]

I would prefer my son to learn more about a different President than a President who lied under oath, but that is just me.

If the homework given, is an assignment he could choose and not an assignment given by the teacher...yes...easy answer for me...learn about a different President.

Either way...I don't see a right or wrong in this scenario.

every political lies, none of them are honest, all of them are crooks

[Anddenex]

every political lies, none of them are honest, all of them are crooks

Never said they didn't.

[Wingnut]

That just seems weird to me. The objection (as quoted) isn't, "In researching Clinton my child will encounter age inappropriate material." but rather, "Clinton was a bad man. No child of mine will do a book report on a bad man." The first I can kinda understand, the later is just foreign to me. I can only imagine what happens when her child is tasked to do a book report on Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany.

That's the gist of what I said. My response/comment was:

As Devil's Advocate here, your kids will, at some point, [Friend], have to do reports on adulterers and liars. But that isn't all there is to those people. It's unfortunate that you won't acknowledge the good that he did because you only care about his pants.

She knows that I'm much more liberal than she is, and I'm sure she assumes that I just plain old disagree with her choice, so it's not truly "Devil's Advocate."

My friend, her sister, and a few other people came back to explain how inappropriate it would be for him to have to study the moral issues, etc. surrounding his presidency. I just replied:

I can't imagine that the book he'd have been working from would have discussed the Lewinsky affair.

I think I offended her, because she came back with:

It's because of the Lewinsky affair that I don't want him doing the report on Clinton. He's a bad example of a moral, honest human being. End of story. My choice, not yours. Sorry if that offends you.

Trying to backpedal a little on the confrontation, I wrote back (while I was writing this post on LDS.net, after having read some of your responses):

It doesn't offend me, I just don't get it. For one thing, how do you explain to him why he has to choose another person without telling him what you don't want him to know? For another, I just don't understand why he can't report on things like that Clinton was the 2nd youngest person elected to the office, he was left-handed, he played the saxophone, etc. And in two years, he'll probably be studying the Holocaust and may have to do a book report on Hitler. What then?

Clearly we have different parenting styles on an issue such as this, and that's fine. I'm just presenting a different view. I just honestly can't imagine a scenario where Jack would come across information about Monica Lewinsky in books that he'd find in the elementary school library. But then again, my oldest is only in kindergarten, and I haven't been in an elementary school library in a number of years.

[skippy740]

How about J. Edgar Hoover? I bet HE wore a blue dress once!

[Backroads]

Well, heck, my staunch conservative husband is actually rather fond of Clinton.

It's just a report. It doesn't mean he worships Clinton.

I'm not a big Obama fan or ever was, yet when he was elected the first time around part of explaining it to my first grade class was having them color Obama pictures. Not a single parent complained (though this was the initial election...)

[Lakumi]

Well, heck, my staunch conservative husband is actually rather fond of Clinton.

It's just a report. It doesn't mean he worships Clinton.

I'm not a big Obama fan or ever was, yet when he was elected the first time around part of explaining it to my first grade class was having them color Obama pictures. Not a single parent complained (though this was the initial election...)

As a Canadian it's bizarre to comprehend someone would complain about that...

Though we make fun of our politicans a lot, and generally avoid stuff like that in younger grades (least when I was a kid)

The US seems bafflingly crazy to me

[pam]

As a Canadian it's bizarre to comprehend someone would complain about that...

Though we make fun of our politicans a lot, and generally avoid stuff like that in younger grades (least when I was a kid)

The US seems bafflingly crazy to me

It's becoming baffingly crazy to me in many respects as well.

[Guest]

Boy Lakumi, you're sure setting yourself up there.

[Dravin]

@Wingnut - What gets me is even if he was all bad I'm left thinking, "So?" I can't help but feel something got left out. Like the book being heavily biased and her being concerned with a 1st grader's inability to read critically. That I can understand. Still, the issue is not, "He's a bad man and thus an unsuitable topic." but, "The source material is biased and my son lacks the critical thinking skill to properly negotiate that bias." Of course the existence of the bias is up to debate, but accepting the premise it's a reasonable objection.

I find it's fairly common for people to have trouble precisely articulating what their position is if they aren't in a habit of trying to do so regularly (and even then it's a tricky endeavor). So her thought process may be

He's an immoral and unadmirable man and the book is biased and portrays him as the more moral and admirable human being ever. I'm concerned my son lacks the cognitive ability as a 1st grader to negotiate the bias and exercise critical thinking and reading skills. As such I'm concerned if he studies the source material and writes the report he's going to walk away internalizing this biased portrayal which I feel is completely inaccurate.

But what she expresses is:

He's immoral and dishonest. No way am I letting him do a book report on him.

[Lakumi]

Boy Lakumi, you're sure setting yourself up there.

What, that I'm Canadian and the US is a weird and scary place to me?