pam Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 I think sometimes we forget about the spirit of the law and concentrate too much on individual perceptions of the letter of the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 I think sometimes we forget about the spirit of the law and concentrate too much on individual perceptions of the letter of the law.^^^^^This. Definitely. Q Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 Is this what you are talking about JAG?https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/pdf/102-17-29.pdfM.It is indeed; thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leah Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 Yah. Yah. Like allowance. Some people have their kids tithe on their allowance, either for practice, or because once money has changed hands their view is that it's "new" money. Some don't, since it's already been tithed on by the family. QTo the kid, an allowance is income. It shouldn't matter where it came from. Using the argument of 'tithes have already been paid on that', if I am employed by a Mormon who tithes, I would never have to tithe on any of my income.And if a tithe-paying Mormon hires a Mormon to clean their house or mow their lawn, no tithes need to be paid on that, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 To the kid, an allowance is income. It shouldn't matter where it came from. Using the argument of 'tithes have already been paid on that', if I am employed by a Mormon who tithes, I would never have to tithe on any of my income.And if a tithe-paying Mormon hires a Mormon to clean their house or mow their lawn, no tithes need to be paid on that, either.I agree in principle with the idea that my income is tithed, and so if I "pay" my children an allowance, they need not tithe that income, because it's as if I bought them $20 worth of clothing with my tithed money.However, my wife and I use allowance as an opportunity to teach our children to tithe. We insist they tithe their allowance. I suppose I could deduct their allowance from my tithed income, but even I am not that petty. (Plus, our allowances to them are so small that it just is not a significant amount, anyway.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leah Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 I agree in principle with the idea that my income is tithed, and so if I "pay" my children an allowance, they need not tithe that income, because it's as if I bought them $20 worth of clothing with my tithed money.However, my wife and I use allowance as an opportunity to teach our children to tithe. We insist they tithe their allowance. I suppose I could deduct their allowance from my tithed income, but even I am not that petty. (Plus, our allowances to them are so small that it just is not a significant amount, anyway.)So why not extend that principle to all previously tithed money? If I hire your kid to mow my lawn, or hire you to do my taxes, neither one of you has to tithe that income because a tithe has been previously paid on those dollars.Can we please extend this rationale to the tax system? Since my employer has already paid tax on the money he pays me, I sure would like all my income tax money back. I mean, I need it more than my employer does, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 So why not extend that principle to all previously tithed money? If I hire your kid to mow my lawn, or hire you to do my taxes, neither one of you has to tithe that income because a tithe has been previously paid on those dollars.Can we please extend this rationale to the tax system? Since my employer has already paid tax on the money he pays me, I sure would like all my income tax money back. I mean, I need it more than my employer does, right?There is a GINORMOUS difference between an allowance and an earned income. My kids (and Vort's, we've had a discussion on this before) don't have to work for their allowance. Hence, it is not income. I did not hire them to do homework to earn their allowance. If my kid works for you by mowing your lawn, you betcha it is earned income.And lastly, Tithing has ZERO relationship to the Tax System. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 I would like to post this scripture, NOT with the intent to offend anyone or refer to ANY particular post within this thread. I think this scripture of Christ talking to the pharisees is quite eye-opening for me and that's how I feel about the whole "interest", "income", "gross" and "net" discussion:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. (Matthew 23: 23-24) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maureen Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 So why not extend that principle to all previously tithed money? If I hire your kid to mow my lawn, or hire you to do my taxes, neither one of you has to tithe that income because a tithe has been previously paid on those dollars....How would the kid that mowed your lawn or the tax person know that you tithed on your money unless you told them; and why would you do that? Isn't that between you and the Lord?M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anddenex Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 (edited) I agree with everything except the bolded part. What we owe in tithes has no bearing on what other people has paid in tithes even for the same 10 dollar bill.After reading a few posts, it would appear my statement is widely misunderstood. I fully agree with the sentiment, "what we owe in tithes has no bearing..." If I work/labor and am paid for a labor, even if it is from tithed monies, than I am still obligated to pay tithing. As I shared with my parents, although they paid me with money which already had been tithed, the payment was in return of a labor I provided. Yes, I paid tithing on tithed monies, because it was money paid for labor I performed.My reference is simply that when I give my children a gift, any amount on any occasion, they aren't expected to pay a tithe, because it is a gift, and I have already paid tithing for my family. Now, if my children decide they would like to pay tithe, or pay a fast offering, or give any percentage of their gift to the Church...this is up to them. The same principle applies to anyone else I give a gift to. Tithing on the gift has already been paid...it wasn't given in return for any labor...however, if they feel they would like to pay tithing, or give a fast offering, or any contribution from the gift it is up to them.It might be better to just leave out, "tithing has already been paid," which may not be the best way to explain it. :) Edited February 23, 2014 by Anddenex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 So why not extend that principle to all previously tithed money? If I hire your kid to mow my lawn, or hire you to do my taxes, neither one of you has to tithe that income because a tithe has been previously paid on those dollars.Can we please extend this rationale to the tax system? Since my employer has already paid tax on the money he pays me, I sure would like all my income tax money back. I mean, I need it more than my employer does, right?I do not extend it to amounts paid for services rendered. If my children had to "earn" their allowance, my attitude toward it would be different. But of course, in that case, it would not be an allowance, it would be payment for services rendered.As for income taxes: I agree that income taxes are the worst possible kind of tax and should be summarily abolished. There should never be taxes on earnings, only on expenditures. But that is a completely separate issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 I would like to post this scripture, NOT with the intent to offend anyone or refer to ANY particular post within this thread. I think this scripture of Christ talking to the pharisees is quite eye-opening for me and that's how I feel about the whole "interest", "income", "gross" and "net" discussion:I don't understand. Why do you classify a discussion about tithing as, in your words (not Christ's words, but yours): "Omitt[ing] the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith...strain[ing] at a gnat and swallow[ing] a camel"? Such a judgment seems both inappropriate and wrongfully using the relevant scriptural citations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 A modest proposal: How about we establish two tithing regimens: one can pay an "alternative minimum tithe" of 10% of gross income. Or, one can itemize deductions--but one will then be subject to audit, and any cheating (however minuscule) is an automatic one-year disfellowshipping with no appeals. That way, those who wish to be stingy with the Lord can do so--on the understanding that He reserves the right to be stingy with them in return. "Live by the sword, die by the sword", and all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 To the kid, an allowance is income. It shouldn't matter where it came from. Using the argument of 'tithes have already been paid on that', if I am employed by a Mormon who tithes, I would never have to tithe on any of my income.And if a tithe-paying Mormon hires a Mormon to clean their house or mow their lawn, no tithes need to be paid on that, either.So.... If a parent spends $1,000 a month on their child... $100 has already been paid in tithing. But... iF a parent wants to teach money management, and has the child buy what is needed out of that thousand...$200 has to be paid on that $1000? That doesn't compute. ***Families structure allowance differently. In some, it's pocket money. In others it:- Daycare/Afterschool care (as needed)- Clothes/ shoes/ uniforms- Food- A portion of household bills- Sports & Extracurricular activities- School supplies- Birthday & Christmas budget- Doctors visits and Rx's. -etc.The kid who gets $1000 a month may well only have $20 left over.Meanwhile the kid whose parents pay for the $1000 a month has $40 in pocket money. ($1000 a month is actually a lowball number, childcare is often double that, but it's round). All families work allowance differently. Some families have kids pay on allowance. Some don't. ***The difference between a Mormon working for a Mormon... And a Parent & their Child... Is a pretty big difference. Q Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 A modest proposal: How about we establish two tithing regimens: one can pay an "alternative minimum tithe" of 10% of gross income. Or, one can itemize deductions--but one will then be subject to audit, and any cheating (however minuscule) is an automatic one-year disfellowshipping with no appeals. That way, those who wish to be stingy with the Lord can do so--on the understanding that He reserves the right to be stingy with them in return. "Live by the sword, die by the sword", and all that.VSI think sometimes we forget about the spirit of the law and concentrate too much on individual perceptions of the letter of the law.Hmmmm.Team Pam on this one. All the way. Pick me! Pick me! Q Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 Pretty sure JAG's comment was tongue-in-cheek and designed to help people think about God's tithing in terms other than some sort of income tax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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