Teeny-tiny ethics

[Wingnut]

I'm curious to see how other people view minor truth-bending. Things like saying your 13-year-old is under 11 in order to get the kids' meal for him, teaching your six-year-old to stand on her tiptoes in order to be tall enough to get on a ride, or other things like that. It can be with kids or just you yourself. Do you ever lie about your age, etc.?

[Wingnut]

A couple of follow-up questions (I thought of the topic and posted it, without thinking all the way through the conversation starter).

Is there such a thing as "teeny-tiny ethics" to you? Or is a white lie the same as a "real" lie? If we're talking about instances that involve kids, do your answers change based on how old the kids are?

[skippy740]

We can easily talk about software or music pirating in this thread as well.

We can rationalize anything. That's the problem, and the cancer that can erode our integrity.

The rationale is: "No one would know."

The truth is: "I would know."

I think a concept such as personal honor and integrity has been eroding in this country for far too long. There is no "family honor" anymore, that our actions can bring shame and embarrassment on those whom we care about most.

And it can all start with the little lies we tell ourselves... and it escalates from there.

[Backroads]

Ooh, good question!

Okay, for me, I'm fine with "white lies" as long as I don't foresee them hurting anyone--which so far has been never.

I recall doing the tiptoe thing, or pretending teenaged siblings were 18 so they could adult swim with us (they looked it and no one was checking I.Ds)

When it comes to kids, I'd rather stick to strong truth-telling as they are younger and they can enter the teeny-tiny ethics of their own will (obviously I can't top them) as they come old enough to consider the consequences.

However, kids and everyone should always be willing to acknowledge there possibly will be consequences and they must be willing to accept that possibility and the consequences.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I'm curious to see how other people view minor truth-bending. Things like saying your 13-year-old is under 11 in order to get the kids' meal for him, teaching your six-year-old to stand on her tiptoes in order to be tall enough to get on a ride, or other things like that. It can be with kids or just you yourself. Do you ever lie about your age, etc.?

For me, no I don't lie about my kids age because I figure my integrity is worth more than the money I would save. :) But I might lie about my age or weight, because that is no one's business but my own.

We can rationalize anything.

You reminded me of a story that has always amused me. My friend said her brother (a former bishop) offered to lend her an edited copy of The Matrix.

She said, "I thought that was still in theaters, not released yet.

The former bishop said, "Oh it's not released, this is a pirated copy."

My friend saw the irony here, just as I did. Apparently in his mind pirating was okay, but R-rated movies were not. It still cracks me up (because I disagree with him.)

[pam]

No I don't agree with lying to save a few bucks or getting into places that they aren't old enough for. There were times I was tempted when money was tight but I'm like LP, my integrity is worth more.

Though I must admit that there are times I wish I could lie about my age and get more of the "senior" discounts. :) But that will come fast enough.

[Wingnut]

Pam, don't you lie about your age to us all the time?

[pam]

Pam, don't you lie about your age to us all the time?

References please. :)

[Dravin]

I'm curious to see how other people view minor truth-bending. Things like saying your 13-year-old is under 11 in order to get the kids' meal for him, teaching your six-year-old to stand on her tiptoes in order to be tall enough to get on a ride, or other things like that. It can be with kids or just you yourself. Do you ever lie about your age, etc.?

I'm against it.

Is there such a thing as "teeny-tiny ethics" to you? Or is a white lie the same as a "real" lie? If we're talking about instances that involve kids, do your answers change based on how old the kids are?

I see a distinction between the above explicit examples you gave and white lies. In my mind white lies are lies told generally to spare other's feelings. So having your 13 year old pretend to be 12 to get a free kids meal or what have you isn't a white lie, it's a lie told for personal gain (which I think sets a horrible precedent for your children). Personally I think they're all lies, but it's a continuum of bad mostly based off motive and impact. In one case you are defrauding someone, in another you are trying to spare their feelings. Ideally when asked if you liked the food as a guest at a friends house you'd be able to find something tactful and truthful to say rather than resorting to lying as a social lubricant and hurt feelings preventer. So instead of responding by raving about how much the dish is the most delicious things ever to pass your lips, when it isn't the case, you can probably find something you actually like about the meal or find interesting that you can respond with rather than reaching for the standard, "It's delicious!" white lie. Even if it's just the plating, and you can almost always appreciate that someone went to the effort of feeding you even if you don't particularly like what they're feeding you. That last bit is something I learned on my mission.

On a side note, I don't feel that withholding everything you may think to be a lie. I cook, so I'm prone to thinking, "It needs some more salt, a little pepper would pick it up, and if they'd topped it with cilantro it would have given it an herbaceous bite that makes it more than a one note flavor." I'm not going to just offer that up though when someone asks me, "Do you like it?" I'm inclined to just respond with a truthful, "Chipotle in the mashed potatoes is brilliant, I may try it myself."

Edited February 28, 2014 by Dravin

[Backroads]

The way I see it, if parents can continue having their elementary school-aged kids in the pool during adult swim, my 17-year-old brothers can be in the pool.

[Blackmarch]

I'm curious to see how other people view minor truth-bending. Things like saying your 13-year-old is under 11 in order to get the kids' meal for him, teaching your six-year-old to stand on her tiptoes in order to be tall enough to get on a ride, or other things like that. It can be with kids or just you yourself. Do you ever lie about your age, etc.?

pennies eventually add up to dollars.

And yes i'v unfortunately done my fair share of smudging.

[pam]

The way I see it, if parents can continue having their elementary school-aged kids in the pool during adult swim, my 17-year-old brothers can be in the pool.

And because everyone is thinking the same thing, there really isn't an adult swim.

[Backroads]

And because everyone is thinking the same thing, there really isn't an adult swim.

Can't argue that!

Okay, I no longer have any white lie experience other than tip-toes at the the amusement park from childhood.

[beefche]

I won't lie to take advantage of a discount or circumvent some rule. I agree that it may be a matter of personal integrity for me.

But, I may withhold information or circumvent the truth to avoid hurting someone's feelings. But even then, I find that most times being honest with compassion is much better than lying.

Examples I can think of:

"No, you don't look good in those pants. They are not flattering. What about those pants you wore the other day? Those look fantastic on you."

"Hmm, she is so passionate about how awesome that movie was and I hated it with a white hot passion. I'll just smile and nod rather than burst her bubble about how intelligent the movie isn't."

[Wingnut]

I may have a teeny-tiny ethical dilemma come up for me next week, and I don't know yet what I'll do, but I thought it would make for an interesting conversation.

Those of you who are FB friends with me may remember my venting earlier this month about the local LEGO store. For those who aren't on FB with me, here's my post:

LEGO fail today. We went to the mall to do the free monthly mini model build, which (this month) is a thing from the upcoming LEGO movie. We've been doing these monthly builds for over a year now, despite the advertised age for the event being 6-14. We've never had a problem or been questioned, and I've never had one single negative thing to say about the LEGO store at [my local mall], or its employees. They are always helpful, courteous, and happy. Tonight, however, a woman (that I've never seen there) looked down her nose at [Mini-Wing] and asked me how old she was. When I said she was 5, the woman told us (right in front of a hopeful and excited little girl), that they weren't allowing children under 6 tonight, because it was a "complicated" build. Lame, lame, lame.

I don't know if they're just suddenly enforcing the policy, or if that was a one-time thing. But my daughter was crushed. She can build things on her own without help. Usually at these mini builds, I just have to watch her to make sure she doesn't get ahead of herself. She'll often miss one minor step, but that's it.

Next week is the monthly build again. My daughter will be six in April. So if we're asked her age again, do I say, "Oh, she'll be six on [date]," and leave off the month? Do I say, "she's six," since we're pretty close? Do I say "she'll be six next month," and hope it's enough? Or do I tell the truth and run the risk of her devastation all over again?

I'm not necessarily asking for advice here, though I won't be upset if anyone offers it up. I'm just doing a little but of talking out loud. It's the current teeny-tiny crisis I might be facing, and the thought that prompted this conversation.

[beefche]

I, personally, wouldn't lie about it. I would simply state the facts, "She will be 6 on April x. In the past, we've come and participated without any issues about her age since it wasn't asked." I know it's hard to see your baby be so disappointed, but I would rather deal with that issue (she has to learn to deal with disappoints at all stages in life) than simply lie and have that as an example to her on how to deal with disappointments.

That's my unsolicited opinion. You did acknowledge that you anticipated getting answers to a question not asked.

[Suzie]

I may have a teeny-tiny ethical dilemma come up for me next week, and I don't know yet what I'll do, but I thought it would make for an interesting conversation.

Those of you who are FB friends with me may remember my venting earlier this month about the local LEGO store. For those who aren't on FB with me, here's my post:

I don't know if they're just suddenly enforcing the policy, or if that was a one-time thing. But my daughter was crushed. She can build things on her own without help. Usually at these mini builds, I just have to watch her to make sure she doesn't get ahead of herself. She'll often miss one minor step, but that's it.

Next week is the monthly build again. My daughter will be six in April. So if we're asked her age again, do I say, "Oh, she'll be six on [date]," and leave off the month? Do I say, "she's six," since we're pretty close? Do I say "she'll be six next month," and hope it's enough? Or do I tell the truth and run the risk of her devastation all over again?

I'm not necessarily asking for advice here, though I won't be upset if anyone offers it up. I'm just doing a little but of talking out loud. It's the current teeny-tiny crisis I might be facing, and the thought that prompted this conversation.

I would say she will be 6 next month but to avoid another similar situation in front of your daughter, I would call the store in advance and ask to speak with the manager and explain the situation and if they say to go ahead, I would go and if asked about the age issue again, I would say I spoke to "X" person about it and they gave me the okay.

[Wingnut]

I would say she will be 6 next month but to avoid another similar situation in front of your daughter, I would call the store in advance and ask to speak with the manager and explain the situation and if they say to go ahead, I would go and if asked about the age issue again, I would say I spoke to "X" person about it and they gave me the okay.

I thought about that. I wondered if the answer might change based on who I spoke with. I also wondered if the act of asking (even if they said it's fine) might make them decide to start asking, in which case, I just screw myself. Lol.

Basically, I'm just putting waaaay too much thought into this entire event.

[beefche]

Basically, I'm just putting waaaay too much thought into this entire event.

Maybe, but I know you felt bad about how disappointed your little one was. It's hard for mommies to see their kiddos so sad about something that seems so unfair (even to you).

You could take daughter outside to build castles in the snow. After all, you can't possibly be tired of the snow and it's so exhilarating!

[Wingnut]

Maybe, but I know you felt bad about how disappointed your little one was. It's hard for mommies to see their kiddos so sad about something that seems so unfair (even to you).

You could take daughter outside to build castles in the snow. After all, you can't possibly be tired of the snow and it's so exhilarating!

Her daddy actually took her sledding that night to help mitigate. But by now, she's done with the snow. She's loved playing in it, but last week she asked me, "Mommy, when's it going to be summer?"

[beefche]

Her daddy actually took her sledding that night to help mitigate. But by now, she's done with the snow. She's loved playing in it, but last week she asked me, "Mommy, when's it going to be summer?"

I've been asking the same question.

Not looking forward to this weekend. I can't remember the last time we had a dumping of snow in March here. It's snowed before, but not dump snow on us. Ugh

[Guest]

White lie is not the same as... uhm, "real lie?".

But for me, if I'm going to do a White Lie... It better be worth it.

Lying just to get into a roller-coaster is not worth it. Lying to get into a swimming pool is not worth it. Lying to get discount meals at Golden Coral is not worth it.

What's worth it? When I can tell God, I know that you said not to lie, but if I lie on this one, I'm going to end up breaking another one of your commandments....

[beefche]

What's worth it? When I can tell God, I know that you said not to lie, but if I lie on this one, I'm going to end up breaking another one of your commandments....

Can you give an example of when this would ever happen?

[Guest]

Can you give an example of when this would ever happen?

Lots of examples.

Here's a very common one. I am under covenant to love my neighbor as I love myself. My father got diagnosed with untreatable cancer. I know that if I tell him he is terminal that he will spend the rest of what's left of his life in a depression. So, out of the commandment to Love, I tell him he's just fine when he asks what the doctor said, with the hope that he will live a happier life.

Another example... a true story this time. I am under covenant to honor my spouse. I know my spouse has a problem with... I don't know... picking his nose. I know it is embarassing to him. So, somebody asks me... does your husband have a problem with picking his nose? Out of my commandment to honor my spouse I tell the guy, No, he doesn't.

By the way, these are not a true stories. Just so you know.

Edited February 28, 2014 by anatess

[Jennarator]

The only time I can think a white lie is ok is suprise parties. And that will come to light at some point so nothing permenant. In fact I did one for my husband and I STILL feel a little guilty about it. But he foregave, of couse.

For the Lego thing, I would just say she is almost six or she is just about six, but shehas been doing these in the past with no issues (as was stated earier.) Might add that she has plenty of experience with them. No lies, no misleading, let them make the call. Kids sometimes have to face rles and learn that they ARE important. It is hard and can even hurt. But it is a lesson I wish more people understood.