Civil Discourse

[prisonchaplain]

One trick I use is to discern the overall meaning of a post.  If I get caught up in particular phrases, or single sentences, I may find a weakness I can exploit.  However, will I persuade or influence?  Doubtful.  Instead, at minimum I will appear a winner, but offend the very one I'm trying to win over.  Sure, I beat them at the battle of words.  But I lost any hope at influence.  Worse, I failed to do any learning or teaching.  Far better to ask myself:  What did s/he mean?  What was the main idea?  How are they understanding me?  Have I communicated clearly and respectfully?

[The Folk Prophet]

One trick I use is to discern the overall meaning of a post.  If I get caught up in particular phrases, or single sentences, I may find a weakness I can exploit.  However, will I persuade or influence?  Doubtful.  Instead, at minimum I will appear a winner, but offend the very one I'm trying to win over.  Sure, I beat them at the battle of words.  But I lost any hope at influence.  Worse, I failed to do any learning or teaching.  Far better to ask myself:  What did s/he mean?  What was the main idea?  How are they understanding me?  Have I communicated clearly and respectfully?

 

This is why you "win" the most civil award. :)

 

I find myself ashamed. I am so often caught up in winning with words. Thank you for the advice.

[Traveler]

Communication is interesting to me.  I make my living as a consulting engineer in the field of robotics and automation.  I am never contacted when a company is happy and successful in moving their products within their facilities.   What is interesting is that many times companies are not ready to solve their problems – I think people are like that.  One of my best customers after my first week with them had me escorted from their facilities by security.  6 months later they wanted me back.  But by then their problems were so bad that they were losing over 2 million dollars a day.

 

What I have discovered is that civility is more a reflection of internal turmoil and instability than it is external injustice (of course there are always exceptions) and many of us with difficult anger issues will not change our failing methods, if ever, until things get so bad that are no other possibilities.  Anger is often an emotion that results when there is frustration and a fear of being recognized for failure. 

 

PC for example is very comfortable with his religious understanding and so he has no fear about his religion failing to achieve for him what he desires of it.  Most of us however, are not as stable in knowing what we really believe and desire instead to be recognized and validated – otherwise there is no metric of intelligent progress.   Perhaps the most important aspect of open discussion that I have realized is that I do not learn much in discussing things with those with whom I agree.  I seem to learn much more from those that disagree with me.  Except those that will stand in the direct light of the noon day sun and declare it night.  For such I am convinced that any intelligent conversation is such a threat to everything they believe that anger, name calling and all other such things are absolute necessities to in order to think themselves sane and thus rhetorical logic is impossible.

[Guest]

The apology was in response to this:

Yes, that's what I thought too. But I was not saying that it was your fault at all or that you can do something about it. If one person misunderstands, then sure, maybe the breakdown is somewhere on your side, but two people getting the same misunderstanding, more than likely the breakdown is on my side. The problem is, language is so broad that it is impossible for me to get it right. So I will end up losing hope and just go mum. So, that's why, I took the route of just not even worrying about it at all. Which, unfortunately makes it so that a lot of my posts on LDS.net is nothing more than just explaining what I said in a previous post... sometimes over and over and over.

Make sense?

[Guest]

Anatess: I have always been able to understand you - your \\\'tone\\\' and probably the feeling within your words/phrases. I am American. Born to a norweigian man who was the first generation of his family born in the USA, and a woman whose Grandfather & GGrandpa immigrated here from England & Ireland. I only know one language and that one I boggle up enough as it is. Yet, pretty much every post you have written, I have understood and agreed with upon the first reading.

As to the OP - I rely heavily on the gift of discernment that our Father has blessed me with. When I read a thread and am instantly *Enraged* by it - I do NOT respond right away. I will read the responses or more accurately skim through them.

If I feel the prompting to reply, then I copy and paste the entire thread to my Word program, and pick apart what I am responding to. Often this process will take me days or even weeks, and seldom do I ever post when it is finished. It is out of my system. My responses would not have accomplished anything constructive. Doing the Cut-Paste-take-my-time-responding exercise has helped me tremendously.

When I do respond to a thread - I edit heavily before I post - sometimes to the point of not posting.

My husband has always counciled to *Give it (your response) ten coats of time.* - I find this to be good advice. When he was in the hospital, waiting for all the specialists to find out why his blood was not clotting, the woman who was the Hospital Chaplain added: *Put it on the altar, and give it ten coats of time*. So, before I post to a thread that inflames or enrages me - I put it On the altar - giving it ten coats of time.

Thank you Iggy!

I do the editing a lot too. I go through posts at least 3 times and still editing it after it posted. But this new software, I have not been able to do that because it takes me super long to work the tiny screen on the iPad and editing after posting puts slashes where it doesn\\\'t belong. The site doesn\\\'t render well on my laptop.

I admire your mastery of your ego to be able to delete something you wanted to say. My ego and I battle a lot and my ego wins more than it should that I don\\\'t think I can delete something I said just for the satisfaction of being able to \\\"say my piece\\\". Which, yes, gets me in deep trouble.

[Iggy]

Prophet, Anatess you are welcome.

 

- I also keep in mind this simple phrase:

"Never engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed man" - Winston Churchill. 

 

I used to, a lot. Consequently I was the one who came across as the bully. I also loved to use the $65.00 words. Talking above their heads produces the same results - misunderstandings and hurt feelings. Doesn't matter if they really do deserve to get body slammed. Doesn't really matter if they really do need to be shown that they are wrong, wrong, wrong. I also refuse to do the latest slang or to use text abbreviations. There will come a time when we will all have to spell words correctly and to put those words into meaningful phrases. 

 

Never call someone a liar. Misinformed yes. Stranger to the truth, yes. But never a liar. 

 

Cussing and swearing only shows that you have an extremely limited vocabulary, and that you do not respect yourself enough to banish the adversary from your language. When I worked at a small independent insurance office, the swearing and cursing of the ladies who worked there was fierce. I was not a stranger to the language - I worked as a bartender in my previous life and had heard it all from the customers. I wore headphones that blocked their chatter - yet was plugged into my phone. - - -Oh, wait, that is another thread I think. 

 

My husband of 10 years has shown me how to step back, not to be a bully-body slammer. How to cushion the words and still get the meaning across. I write, he edits, I re-edit, ad-nauseum. But the copy/pasting to word - that we did when we lived in AZ. The storms would shut down the power grid, if it was pasted into word and word was set up to save every minute, then it was never lost, much.

 

Ego - yeah anatess, it can get us in a lot of trouble. I do say "my piece". In MWord. I hammer it all out. Page after page. Once it was 60 pages. I even printed it out, so I could use a pink highlighter for the deleted sentences. By the time I read it through twice, it had to be set aside so I could banish the adversary from me, and the house. On the computer I deleted all of the pink, then read it again. Now I was down to about 6 pages. Took me two weeks, and I finally got it down to 2 pages. This was not a forum topic - but a response to accusations from a Branch Auxiliary Priesthood holder towards me in my calling.  When I printed it out and gave it to Husband to read AND edit - it took him one full day to go over it. For the first time in the 10 years we have been married, and he has been editing responses for me - he said: Perfect! DON'T change a thing!!! Being on forums has taught me to Prove my words. I put in the references, validate and confirm. 

 

Go ahead and let fly - but do so in Word or OpenOffice. Then edit, edit and edit. Let it sit. On the altar for 10 coats of time. Then read, edit and then Post it. My eyesight is so poor, I will never be able to use a cell phone to write anything. I have a hard enough time punching in numbers. I put my phone on the desk, and wearing my reading glasses and a magnifying glass, using the eraser end of a pencil I type in the numbers in my address book. So texting is out - don't even have that feature. I print using Ariel Narrow -12 font, Uses less ink, yet is still easy to read. 

[The Folk Prophet]

I also loved to use the $65.00 words. Talking above their heads produces the same results - misunderstandings and hurt feelings. 

 

I tend to use fairly verbose phrases and somewhat larger words when I write. I don't, actually, talk that way (usually) but it's just the way it comes out when I write. I find it helps me to say what I'm actually trying to say. I can't imagine it hurting feelings to do so, though I can imagine people seeing me as a know-it-all twit because of it. :) Of course I am a know-it-all twit, so...,

[Dravin]

I tend to use fairly verbose phrases and somewhat larger words when I write. I don't, actually, talk that way (usually) but it's just the way it comes out when I write. I find it helps me to say what I'm actually trying to say. I can't imagine it hurting feelings to do so, though I can imagine people seeing me as a know-it-all twit because of it. :) Of course I am a know-it-all twit, so...,

 

It's kind of a rock and hard place situation. If someone perceives you to be using short words or simple phrasing because they think you think anything else will be over their head then they'll think you are patronizing them. If someone perceives you to be using larger words and more complex phrasing because they think you think they won't be able to keep up and you'll win through verbosity and confusion then they'll think you're elitist and arrogant. When truth be told you can simply be writing in your normal prose, or normal for the situation*, without either motivation.

 

*If one is engaged in an intellectual give and take on a nuanced subject one tends to use a different register than they do for sharing their favorite flavor of chips.

[Quin]

Maybe it\\\'s shared Pacific Rim & diplomatic corps upbringing, but I don\\\'t catch defensive or aggressive tone in any of what Annatess has written! In fact, I catch a lot of humor, introspection, \\\"lightening\\\" (adding turns of phrase / colloquialisms to keep a topic light instead of bogging down in bum bum bum seeeeeeerious.), and bon homie.

I do believe she\\\'s dead on, in that we read tone through cultural spectacles.

I moderate on a forum that has not only has no italics, bold, or other font modifiers (so I\\\'m constantly capitalizing all of my accent words even off forum;, I promise, I don\\\'t have a weird shouting disorder!), but that also went from regional locations to national. We had a HUGE problem (and lost about 5,000 members) during the first 6 months. The single reason, given 50 different ways, was cultural variation. Northeast tended to be blunt, northwest tended to be wordy and beat around the bush, Midwest kind and to the point, etc. but out of 9 different regions, EVERY region hated the way other regions gave advice, even when it was the same advice they themselves were giving. Don\\\'t even get me started on regional variations between spanking & timeouts, breast feeding v formula, etc. Oy. Vey. People were seriously ticked that last month (preconversion, years ago) \\\"everyone\\\" responded with \\\"Yep! I\\\'d pop \\\'em on the bum!\\\" and now this month people were saying \\\"How DARE you strike your child?!?\\\" It\\\'s been years, but about twice a month we have a \\\"Why are people so mean?\\\" Q pop up from a new member. It\\\'s actually the KINDEST forum I\\\'ve ever been on (all of us are vipers over here in LDSnet by comparison ). It\\\'s just huge, and nationwide with a few UK & Russian peeps for even more cultural misunderstanding.

Q

[The Folk Prophet]

Maybe it\\\'s shared Pacific Rim & diplomatic corps upbringing, but I don\\\'t catch defensive or aggressive tone in any of what Annatess has written! In fact, I catch a lot of humor, introspection, \\\"lightening\\\" (adding turns of phrase / colloquialisms to keep a topic light instead of bogging down in bum bum bum seeeeeeerious.), and bon homie.

I do believe she\\\'s dead on, in that we read tone through cultural spectacles.

I moderate on a forum that has not only has no italics, bold, or other font modifiers (so I\\\'m constantly capitalizing all of my accent words even off forum;, I promise, I don\\\'t have a weird shouting disorder!), but that also went from regional locations to national. We had a HUGE problem (and lost about 5,000 members) during the first 6 months. The single reason, given 50 different ways, was cultural variation. Northeast tended to be blunt, northwest tended to be wordy and beat around the bush, Midwest kind and to the point, etc. but out of 9 different regions, EVERY region hated the way other regions gave advice, even when it was the same advice they themselves were giving. Don\\\'t even get me started on regional variations between spanking & timeouts, breast feeding v formula, etc. Oy. Vey. People were seriously ticked that last month (preconversion, years ago) \\\"everyone\\\" responded with \\\"Yep! I\\\'d pop \\\'em on the bum!\\\" and now this month people were saying \\\"How DARE you strike your child?!?\\\" It\\\'s been years, but about twice a month we have a \\\"Why are people so mean?\\\" Q pop up from a new member. It\\\'s actually the KINDEST forum I\\\'ve ever been on (all of us are vipers over here in LDSnet by comparison ). It\\\'s just huge, and nationwide with a few UK & Russian peeps for even more cultural misunderstanding.

Q

 

This is very helpful, and very fascinating.  I think it's complicated when it comes to culture, because just because something is cultural, it is not necessarily justified. If the cultural misunderstandings are based on a misunderstanding (one culture states things more bluntly than another, but intent was still positive) then there is no blame to be had. If, on the other hand, the cultural misunderstanding is from cultural approach based in unchristian behavior (the culture tends towards actual unkindness), then the culture p.o.v. is no excuse.

 

In other words, just because one was raised to be rude does not make it okay to be rude. And you do see this. Cultures that are filled with yelling, cussing, fighting, anger, etc... These things are not justified by cultural identity. But if the perception of what is rude differs, then there is justification, though still a responsibility on both sides to try and understand other cultures and effectively communicate accordingly.

 

it's very interesting.

[Guest]

Maybe it\\\'s shared Pacific Rim & diplomatic corps upbringing, but I don\\\'t catch defensive or aggressive tone in any of what Annatess has written! In fact, I catch a lot of humor, introspection, \\\"lightening\\\" (adding turns of phrase / colloquialisms to keep a topic light instead of bogging down in bum bum bum seeeeeeerious.), and bon homie.

I do believe she\\\'s dead on, in that we read tone through cultural spectacles.

I moderate on a forum that has not only has no italics, bold, or other font modifiers (so I\\\'m constantly capitalizing all of my accent words even off forum;, I promise, I don\\\'t have a weird shouting disorder!), but that also went from regional locations to national. We had a HUGE problem (and lost about 5,000 members) during the first 6 months. The single reason, given 50 different ways, was cultural variation. Northeast tended to be blunt, northwest tended to be wordy and beat around the bush, Midwest kind and to the point, etc. but out of 9 different regions, EVERY region hated the way other regions gave advice, even when it was the same advice they themselves were giving. Don\\\'t even get me started on regional variations between spanking & timeouts, breast feeding v formula, etc. Oy. Vey. People were seriously ticked that last month (preconversion, years ago) \\\"everyone\\\" responded with \\\"Yep! I\\\'d pop \\\'em on the bum!\\\" and now this month people were saying \\\"How DARE you strike your child?!?\\\" It\\\'s been years, but about twice a month we have a \\\"Why are people so mean?\\\" Q pop up from a new member. It\\\'s actually the KINDEST forum I\\\'ve ever been on (all of us are vipers over here in LDSnet by comparison ). It\\\'s just huge, and nationwide with a few UK & Russian peeps for even more cultural misunderstanding.

Q

 

 

Who are you and what did you do with Quinn?  She doesn't write in paragraphs...  Give us back our Quinn!

[classylady]

I always try to be tactful even when I disagree with the other person.  If they seem bent on hammering their opinion, then I tend to disengage.  It's just not worth it to me.  I dislike confrontation.  And, I'm secure enough in my own beliefs that I don't need to get in the last word, or try to make the other person finally agree with me.  What's the adage that you hear about marriage?  "You can be right, or you can be happy."  That may sound like a cop-out, but truly when it comes to opinion, who's to say who is right and who is wrong.  It possibly could be that you're both right.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Speaking of tone...I'm sensing hostility in your replies, which I suppose I may be misreading per the above...in which case I apologize...but as it's causing me to feel some frustration, I'm disengaging.

 

I think THIS is a perfect illustration of the problem.  Misunderstanding.

 

I didn't sense any hostility in Anatess' replies, and I was surprised when I read that you and Dravin did.

 

Communication is difficult at best, and in a written form even more so...then when we add different cultures (as Anatess was trying to explain) it becomes even more complicated.  For this reason, when I read something I feel is hostile I try to clarify by asking questions to verify if I just misunderstood.  Often that is the case.  Sometimes though it seems so blatantly obvious that a person is trying to be insulting....and those I deal with on a case by case basis.  I'm not perfect in this, but I think I have improved after years of forum participation.

[Dravin]

I think THIS is a perfect illustration of the problem.  Misunderstanding.

 

I didn't sense any hostility in Anatess' replies, and I was surprised when I read that you and Dravin did.

 

 

I didn't say I sensed hostility in Anatess' post, before you do a spit take, I said it came across as defensive (in other words sensed defensiveness). I suppose in the end the distinction doesn't particularly matter, it still highlights perception versus intent, but just to be clear for the record.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I apologize for misquoting you.  :)  You are right that defensive is different than hostility.  

 

I also agree that the general principle "perception vs intent" still holds.  :)

[The Folk Prophet]

To be completely fair, "hostility" was probably not the ideal word and did not completely convey what I meant. "Defensive" would have been better. And I did not feel that in any way on her first post. It was the second one that came across to me like she was ever so slightly annoyed at me (which I expressed with the word "hostility").

 

Also, just to clarify the history of it (as it is quite applicable to the post), anatess and I have a history of misunderstanding in this regard. In fact, the reason that I started this thread was because of a misunderstanding with her in another thread wherein I stated something, she came back at me in what I felt was a rude manner, I said, "no need to be rude", she said, "I'm not being rude, are you?" back, forth, etc...and communication completely broke down there, so I disengaged. This happens between me and anatess moderately often. And it usually confuses me. I do not seem to have this break down of communication with most people, except every so often. I do with her and I find it interesting. And despite that there was more of that in this thread, I learned about her from it and will hopefully be more understanding in the future, and I hope the same for her.

 

The funny thing is with anatess and myself -- the "hostility" is mild, and that makes it even more difficult in many ways. With several others the hostility is pretty severe (on their part I think...though I do respond in kind sometimes), and in those cases I simple stop talking with them. There are some posters on this forum that I generally will not engage with in any serious manner because they're just mean. Because the conflict that anatess and I have is often just edging "hostility", and we both try not to be total jerks, and we actually do share similar views on many things, it is a bit more of a difficult thing. I don't (and have never) feel like walking away and never communicating with her again.

 

I'm writing this out not to specifically hash out that relationship, but to add to the subject at hand and to address some of the complexities that can be faced. I don't find it black-and-white in terms of "if you're offended you have a chip on your shoulder" or "any time anyone says something rude it's their fault". It is significantly more complicated than that. And I have a high level of interest in improving in this regard because I take very seriously the scriptural command of the Savior that there be no contentions among us. But that is a difficult thing in practice. Some seem to translate it to never take a stand. And yet we know that we should always stand for truth. So standing for true concepts, but not contending with anyone is a difficult thing for me to resolve.

[The Folk Prophet]

For this reason, when I read something I feel is hostile I try to clarify by asking questions to verify if I just misunderstood. 

 

I found this very helpful and valuable...and it is not something I do well. Responding to disagreements with questions is a method I have seen used to great effect without conflict ensuing. Thanks!

[Bini]

We've covered this topic before, but I'll respond as I always do. I try to be tactful in my wording while making my point. I would also agree with, Classylady, that it's not worth battling back and forth with someone that must have the last word in. I could name some threads now where I've left the discussion hanging because I didn't feel it necessary to squeeze in the last word. While this decision can be frustrating at times, because no resolve has been met, I can't help but assume that "last word in" from the other person was at least satisfying to them.

 

 

I understand the language barrier thing but not personally, as to the extent that Anatess says she experiences. English is my first language, I speak and read French very well, and I can muddle my way through Tagalog and Spanish. I can't say that I've noticed any major cultural differences when participating in my Frenglish forum. Sure, there are some blunt posters, but overall I haven't experienced cultural clashing. Now... off the internet I head butt my husband's side of the family a lot, they're native Netherlanders and just tend to be outspoken people, and don't flinch with their tactless approach. I've learned that this is a cultural difference. They're not intending to be rude, but in my cultural, their "tone" can certainly come across as such or even arrogant. I have no idea how I would come across if I attempted typing in Dutch in a Dutch forum to Dutch people. Possibly, I'd come across as the rude and arrogant one? Hard to say.

[Guest]

To be completely fair, "hostility" was probably not the ideal word and did not completely convey what I meant. "Defensive" would have been better. And I did not feel that in any way on her first post. It was the second one that came across to me like she was ever so slightly annoyed at me (which I expressed with the word "hostility").

 

Also, just to clarify the history of it (as it is quite applicable to the post), anatess and I have a history of misunderstanding in this regard. In fact, the reason that I started this thread was because of a misunderstanding with her in another thread wherein I stated something, she came back at me in what I felt was a rude manner, I said, "no need to be rude", she said, "I'm not being rude, are you?" back, forth, etc...and communication completely broke down there, so I disengaged. This happens between me and anatess moderately often. And it usually confuses me. I do not seem to have this break down of communication with most people, except every so often. I do with her and I find it interesting. And despite that there was more of that in this thread, I learned about her from it and will hopefully be more understanding in the future, and I hope the same for her.

 

The funny thing is with anatess and myself -- the "hostility" is mild, and that makes it even more difficult in many ways. With several others the hostility is pretty severe (on their part I think...though I do respond in kind sometimes), and in those cases I simple stop talking with them. There are some posters on this forum that I generally will not engage with in any serious manner because they're just mean. Because the conflict that anatess and I have is often just edging "hostility", and we both try not to be total jerks, and we actually do share similar views on many things, it is a bit more of a difficult thing. I don't (and have never) feel like walking away and never communicating with her again.

 

I'm writing this out not to specifically hash out that relationship, but to add to the subject at hand and to address some of the complexities that can be faced. I don't find it black-and-white in terms of "if you're offended you have a chip on your shoulder" or "any time anyone says something rude it's their fault". It is significantly more complicated than that. And I have a high level of interest in improving in this regard because I take very seriously the scriptural command of the Savior that there be no contentions among us. But that is a difficult thing in practice. Some seem to translate it to never take a stand. And yet we know that we should always stand for truth. So standing for true concepts, but not contending with anyone is a difficult thing for me to resolve.

It's ok, you can say it. You love me.

Lol!!!

I'm not sure if I can call it hostility. Not even when Vort puts me through the wringer with his Spock-like logic (I haven't seen Vort lately. I miss that guy!). What I feel is more like one-upmanship. Kinda the same feeling as fighting over who gets the Triple Word Score in Scrabble... it's more a game than a deep-seated feeling and it doesn't bother me until I realize I unintentionally offended somebody...

[The Folk Prophet]

It's ok, you can say it. You love me.

Lol!!!

I'm not sure if I can call it hostility. Not even when Vort puts me through the wringer with his Spock-like logic (I haven't seen Vort lately. I miss that guy!). What I feel is more like one-upmanship. Kinda the same feeling as fighting over who gets the Triple Word Score in Scrabble... it's more a game than a deep-seated feeling and it doesn't bother me until I realize I unintentionally offended somebody...

 

We've had some good debates that have not gotten personal. Those I enjoy. Maybe it's never gotten personal for you though...as you say. I do tend to be sensitive to direct personal criticism. Particularly when it is not justified. I make a comment and someone declares that my attitude is what's causing people to commit suicide or something...yeah...that'll get me riled up. But even then I try very hard not to rip peoples throats out -- because I can, and I know I can.

[Guest]

We've had some good debates that have not gotten personal. Those I enjoy. Maybe it's never gotten personal for you though...as you say. I do tend to be sensitive to direct personal criticism. Particularly when it is not justified. I make a comment and someone declares that my attitude is what's causing people to commit suicide or something...yeah...that'll get me riled up. But even then I try very hard not to rip peoples throats out -- because I can, and I know I can.

 

Church, I got my desktop back... the site now renders beautifully on my desktop and the slashes-when-editing is mostly gone.  So, I'm getting back to my reading and re-reading and heavy editing of posts!  I think that transition time had an effect on my communication.

 

Let's see how often we still get into a bind.  When you do notice some off-tone things in my posts, it would be great if you tell me straight up so I can clarify things.  I can be your padawan. :)

[The Folk Prophet]

Church, I got my desktop back... the site now renders beautifully on my desktop and the slashes-when-editing is mostly gone.  So, I'm getting back to my reading and re-reading and heavy editing of posts!  I think that transition time had an effect on my communication.

 

Let's see how often we still get into a bind.  When you do notice some off-tone things in my posts, it would be great if you tell me straight up so I can clarify things.  I can be your padawan. :)

 

How rude!

 

[prisonchaplain]

Classic example of civil vs. uncivil discourse.

 

Sir, please, could you give me ____ ?

 

Uncivil discourse:  You've got nothing coming.  Kick rocks!

 

Civil discourse:  I'm accommodating your request by informing you that policy does not permit approval.

[Traveler]

Were all of Jesus' comments addressed to others civil?

[Guest]

Classic example of civil vs. uncivil discourse.

 

Sir, please, could you give me ____ ?

 

Uncivil discourse:  You've got nothing coming.  Kick rocks!

 

Civil discourse:  I'm accommodating your request by informing you that policy does not permit approval.

 

Uncivil discourse:  No.

 

Civil discourse:  I'm disinclined to acquiesce to your request.