25, Haven't Started Dating Because of Health Issues.

[The Folk Prophet]

Even though I understand that this counsel is not in line with the counsel of the Church as you pointed out, I am wondering what is wrong with omega sharing his/her personal advise? Maybe I misunderstood but I thought the OP just asked for advise rather than asking what is the Church stance on the issue?

 

Nothing wrong with it. Just as there is nothing wrong with me pointing out that it's contrary to the church's teaching. Anyone is free to post their advise. If it contradicts with what is taught by the church, I'm likely to point it out.  The OP, is free to listen to whatever advise they deem appropriate.

[notquiteperfect]

There is an exception to every rule, this is one example of how things can be managed how many of his fellow graduate were up to their eyeballs?

 

There is an exception for every thing and everyone's experience is different. If we only look at the facts not the exceptions lets see where we land

 

Yes, there are exceptions but let me mention something else.  I was married while I watched my husband get his bachelors and then masters so I have much greater appreciation for what it took for him to achieve that and get us to where we are.  Contrast that with my sister-in-law who married my brother when he was already pretty well established.  She wasn't there in the trenches and there's a sense of lack of gratitude/appreciation for what she has.   

[Suzie]

Nothing wrong with it. Just as there is nothing wrong with me pointing out that it's contrary to the church's teaching. Anyone is free to post their advise. If it contradicts with what is taught by the church, I'm likely to point it out.  The OP, is free to listen to whatever advise they deem appropriate.

 

Oh great, thanks. For some reason after reading the follow up comments I had the impression there was an issue with him/her sharing his/her personal opinion/advise. Thanks for clarifying.

[The Folk Prophet]

Oh great, thanks. For some reason after reading the follow up comments I had the impression there was an issue with him/her sharing his/her personal opinion/advise. Thanks for clarifying.

 

And I am getting the impression that you have an issue with me disagreeing with him/her and/or pointing out that the church's teachings disagree with him/her. I put the same question to you then. What's wrong with me giving my personal opinion in response to someone else's personal opinion?

[Suzie]

And I am getting the impression that you have an issue with me disagreeing with him/her and/or pointing out that the church's teachings disagree with him/her. I put the same question to you then. What's wrong with me giving my personal opinion in response to someone else's personal opinion?

 

Issue? No lol. I assure you, I do not. I asked a simple question and you was kind enough to answer it and I thanked you and ended right there for me so..it's all good The Folk Prophet.

[The Folk Prophet]

Issue? No lol. I assure you, I do not. I asked a simple question and you was kind enough to answer it and I thanked you and ended right there for me so..it's all good The Folk Prophet.

 

I read sarcasm into it. I apologize.

[Suzie]

I read sarcasm into it. I apologize.

 

No need to apologize. :)

[omegaseamaster75]

Incidentally, do your own research. Sheesh. No wonder you seem to consistently contradict the gospel. it's not like it's hard. You go to lds.org and type in "marriage" in the search box and WHAMMO! All the info you could want on it. Talks, quotes, scriptures, lessons. Imagine what you could know on your own if you put some effort into it.

I could do my own research but I can count on you to look up an obscure talk, or take a scripture out of context just like you are taking Thomas Monsons talk out of context. I do not see any time frame mentioned in his talk at all. He does not say get married in college nor does he say get married within any time frame after your mission. He talks of financial struggle but make no mention that this is a requirement for a happy marriage

I would say the council of the church and our prophet is to marry a worthy woman in the temple, at a time that is appropriate to you, with thoughtful prayer and faithful preparation.

You also seem unable to resist the temptation to challange an opinion that does not Line up directly with your interpretation of what the exact teachings of the church are.

[The Folk Prophet]

I could do my own research but I can count on you to look up an obscure talk, or take a scripture out of context just like you are taking Thomas Monsons talk out of context. I do not see any time frame mentioned in his talk at all. He does not say get married in college nor does he say get married within any time frame after your mission. He talks of financial struggle but make no mention that this is a requirement for a happy marriage

I would say the council of the church and our prophet is to marry a worthy woman in the temple, at a time that is appropriate to you, with thoughtful prayer and faithful preparation.

You also seem unable to resist the temptation to challange an opinion that does not Line up directly with your interpretation of what the exact teachings of the church are.

 

The fact that you see it as out of context only goes to show that you don't know what the church's position has always been on this matter, that you are not well versed on this at all, and that you have not read the words of the prophets and apostles through the years. Either that or you are incapable of understanding what is plainly before you. The context is not ambiguous. The priority of marriage is very clear.

 

You seem to have forgotten what the discussion is about. You're trying to pigeon-hole my view into something silly to counter me. I have never said that the church tells people to get married before it is appropriate. I have never said that financial struggle is a requirement or anything like that. What I countered is your advise that the OP should finish school before considering marriage. That opinion is counter to the church's advise. And you can claim "interpretation" all day long, but there is nothing to interpret. There are plenty of sources from the church stating this, and no sources anywhere advising as you have. None. It is not interpretation or context. The context of President Monsons talk is clear. "...so many young men are postponing marriage. This is not a new situation. Much has been said concerning this matter by past Presidents of the Church." I gave you an example of what past Presidents of the Church has said. You claimed it wasn't valid because it was old. I'm showing you that President Monson still considered past President's views as valid. One of his quotes was older than the talk I gave you from '73. The advice to prioritize marriage and to not put it off for financial security is not out of date, as President Monson makes clear.

 

Your belligerent determination to ignore any advise from the prophets of the church that you don't like, labeling it out of context or too old is your business. You have the right to see it how you want to. And clearly, you will. Against any quote, scripture, lesson, or teaching, you will hold to your counter positions. That is your prerogative. But I will counter advice that contradicts church teaching. No one need accept what you are calling my interpretation. The words of the prophets are there for all to read.

 

But these teachings are not obscure. Not in the least. As I indicated, a simple search on lds.org yields a bounty. Without even trying:

 

Here's Ezra Taft Benson:

"Without marriage, the purposes of the Lord would be frustrated. Choice spirits would be withheld from the experience of mortality. And postponing marriage unduly often means limiting your posterity, and the time will come, brethren, when you will feel and know that loss.

I can assure you that the greatest responsibility and the greatest joys in life are centered in the family, honorable marriage, and rearing a righteous posterity. And the older you become, the less likely you are to marry, and then you may lose these eternal blessings altogether."

 

Here's Jeffrey R. Holland

“I am not saying you shouldn’t be very careful about something as significant and serious as marriage. … Yes, there are cautions and considerations to make, but once there has been genuine illumination, beware the temptation to retreat from a good thing. If it was right when you prayed about it and trusted it and lived for it, it is right now. Don’t give up when the pressure mounts. You can find an apartment. You can win over your mother-in-law. You can sell your harmonica and therein fund one more meal. It’s been done before. Don’t give in. Certainly don’t give in to that being who is bent on the destruction of your happiness.He wants everyone to be miserable like unto himself. Face your doubts. Master your fears. ‘Cast not away therefore your confidence.’ Stay the course and see the beauty of life unfold for you.”

 

Here's Gordon B. Hinkley:

“I do not worry about you young men who have recently returned from the mission field. You know as well as I what you ought to do. It is your responsibility and opportunity, under the natural process of dating and courting, to find a wonderful companion and marry in the house of the Lord. Don’t rush it unduly and don’t delay it unduly. ‘Marry in haste and repent at leisure’ is an old proverb that still has meaning in our time. But do not dally along in a fruitless, frustrating, and frivolous dating game that only raises hopes and brings disappointment and in some cases heartache”

 

Etc., etc., etc... There are many, many more. I haven't even gone into the billion-and-one quotes about not delaying having children (something that, obviously, requires marriage, but that isn't always explicitly said, so it actually does require interpretation -- and as I am accused by you of interpreting, I'll stick to the specific marriage quotes). 

 

The teaching is clear. Marriage is priority. Don't delay it for worldly reasons. And obviously, the teaching doesn't mean willy-nilly marry the first person you possibly can or that there are no other considerations. There is, of course, balance in all things. But that balance does not include worldly, selfish things meant to make life more comfortable at the expense of that which we have been commanded -- to marry and to multiply and replenish the earth. You like to take my clear point (don't put off marriage for your education) and twist it and add to it as if I've said a bunch of stuff I didn't. Useful. So when did I say that we must get married in college or it's a sin? When did I say there is a specific time frame in which we must be married or it's a sin? Nice straw man.

 

It's a funny way to put it that I can't "resist the temptation" to challenge". As if defending a gospel position is a temptation. Right. I'm just giving in to a temptation. Good one.

[omegaseamaster75]

The church has never said one way or the other to wait or not to wait until you finish school. They say do not delay, but they are ambiguous in their statements because they understand that everyone has to do what is right for them. Some how in your reading of the talks you think we are counseled to marry while in school we are not.

 

I agree marriage is a priority, I also agree if the right person is found marriage should not be delayed. This is the council of our leaders.

 

Would you not also agree that the Church counsels us to be self sufficient? 

 

President Thomas S. Monson has taught that self-reliance—“the ability, commitment, and effort to provide the necessities of life for self and family” ¹—is an essential element of our temporal and spiritual well-being.

A mere desire to become self-reliant is not enough. We must make a conscious, active effort to provide for our own needs and those of our families.

Elder Robert D. Hales of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles says, “Only when we are self-reliant can we truly emulate the Savior in serving and blessing others.” ⁴

Self-reliance involves several facets of a balanced life, including (1) education, (2) health, (3) employment, (4) family home production and storage, (5) family finances, and (6) spiritual strength.

 

Please explain how getting married without a real job, no means to support a family, having kids while in school, incurring crippling student loan debt, having no real medical insurance is in line with the counsel of our leaders to be self sufficient? 

 

Are we not taught by our leaders to have goals in our lives even eternal goals. Elder Ballard said:

 

Develop the Skill of Setting Worthy Goals

I believe you can train yourself to become a positive thinker, but you must cultivate a desire to develop the skill of setting personal worthy and realistic goals. I suppose that at about every seminar or fireside you go to at your age someone talks to you about goal setting. Maybe some of you get weary of listening to the principle of setting goals. But let me tell you something about goal setting. I am so thoroughly convinced that if we don’t set goals in our life and learn how to master the technique of living to reach our goals, we can reach a ripe old age and look back on our life only to see that we reached but a small part of our full potential. When one learns to master the principle of setting a goal, he will then be able to make a great difference in the results he attains in this life.

 

Shouldn't we have goals in our life? Temple marriage being one of them? Being able to provide well for our families being another? Having a "real" job is a worthy goal and makes doing the other things we are commanded to do easier.

[Suzie]

Some good quotes to keep in mind as well that come from the Eternal Marriage Student manual revised in 2003:

 

 

President Harold B. Lee

“I am not trying to urge you younger men to marry too early. I think therein is one of the hazards of today’s living. We don’t want a young man to think of marriage until he is able to take care of a family, to have an institution of his own, to be independent. He must make sure that he has found the girl of his choice, they have gone together long enough that they know each other, and that they know each other’s faults and they still love each other.

 

I have said to the mission presidents (some of whom have been reported to us as saying to missionaries, ‘Now, if you are not married in six months, you are a failure as a missionary’), ‘Don’t you ever say that to one of your missionaries. Maybe in six months they will not have found a wife; and if they take you seriously, they may rush into a marriage that will be wrong for them.’

 

“Please don’t misunderstand what we are saying; but, brethren, think more seriously about the obligations of marriage for those who bear the holy priesthood at a time when marriage should be the expectation of every man who understands the responsibility; for remember, brethren, that only those who enter into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage in the temple for time and eternity, only those will have the exaltation in the celestial kingdom. That is what the Lord tells us” (in Conference Report, Oct. 1973, 120; or Ensign, Jan. 1974, 100).

 

 

 

“When full-time missionaries return home, they should be counseled concerning such matters as continuing their education or employment, strengthening family relationships, participating actively in the Church, paying tithes and offerings, and preparing for temple marriage. It is unwise, however, to ‘recommend that missionaries be married within a specific time. The decision to marry is so important that it should be made only after the most prayerful and careful consideration by the individual.’ (Mission President’s Handbook [31153], 1990, p. 23)” (Bulletin, 1993, no. 1, 2).

 

https://www.lds.org/manual/eternal-marriage-student-manual/mate-selection?lang=eng

 

[The Folk Prophet]

 

The church has never said one way or the other to wait or not to wait until you finish school. They say do not delay, but they are ambiguous in their statements because they understand that everyone has to do what is right for them. Some how in your reading of the talks you think we are counseled to marry while in school we are not.

 

I did not say the church counselled to marry while in school. I said the church counsels not to put off marriage for school. There is a difference. You're twisting things again.

 

Would you not also agree that the Church counsels us to be self sufficient? 

 

Of course. But one could use the same argument to debate the paying of tithing or a healthy fast offering, or limiting family size, or not having children at all. The Lord expects us to sacrifice certain thing.

 

As has been pointed out to you, repeatedly, it is not in any regard given that marrying while in school means less self sufficiency. It is entirely possible to be self sufficient when marrying before schooling is complete.

 

It's about priorities.

 

Please explain how getting married without a real job, no means to support a family, having kids while in school, incurring crippling student loan debt, having no real medical insurance is in line with the counsel of our leaders to be self sufficient? 

 

The simple fact that many do just this and manage to be self-sufficient is evidence enough.

 

Are you seriously contending that everyone who marries young before finishing school is doomed to be dirt poor. This is a ridiculous idea. Moreover, you seem to be equating self-sufficiency with wealth?

 

Don't go into debt. Don't buy a house you can't afford. Don't go out to eat. Don't use credit cards. Buy your clothes at D.I. Live off of inexpensive home-made meals. Don't go to movies. Don't buy televisions. Drive old, inexpensive vehicles. Etc., etc. Married couples do this all the time while they work their way through school. Then, upon completion, the husband gets a solid job, and they are able to move up the ladder of financial success. It is not only possible, it's very, very doable if only people are willing to let go of consumerism and actually be poor.

 

Self-sufficient does not mean wealthy.

[mdfxdb]

It hurts. I've had many sleepless nights. I worry that my chances of finding a good match are being ruined. I worry that nobody will be left. People tell me that it's an unspoken mark of shame to be pushed out of the YSA ward when you turn 30 if you're still single. I have been to the Temple countless times, asking for help or consolation.

I'm not sure what to do. I would appreciate advice.

Serve your mission, do a good job.  Go to school.  Don't feel any pressure to get married or not get married.  Date worthily, but know that if you date you will likely get married.  

 

Don't date frivolously, as it will only bring hurt to others.  

 

We are counseled that marriage to the right person in the right place at the right time is the most important decision you can make.  Don't feel any pressure to rush it.  When you meet the right person you should marry that person.  

 

If you meet that person while going to school, then great, if not then no matter, you will be successful and wealthy and will be a very eligible bachelor.  

[mdfxdb]

The previous points are well taken, but they speak to the exception rather than the rule.  I live in a ward with a lot of students, they have huge debt burdens, they are having children, driving nice cars, have fancy cell phones, get section 8 housing, free vehicle registration, food stamps, and generally live a pretty good life.  All the while they lament about their poverty, and point to the teachings of the prophets for their circumstance.  

 

They would say they followed the teachings of the prophets by not putting off marriage, and starting their family right away, somehow they forgot that they are supposed to be self sufficient.

 

Often times we see those two things do not go together.  In a perfect world people would follow the teachings of the prophets, all the teachings of the prophets. 

 

The students in my ward feel they have chosen righteously, and hold their heads up, and put their chests out, all the while they are on the government boobie...

[Guest]

The previous points are well taken, but they speak to the exception rather than the rule.  I live in a ward with a lot of students, they have huge debt burdens, they are having children, driving nice cars, have fancy cell phones, get section 8 housing, free vehicle registration, food stamps, and generally live a pretty good life.  All the while they lament about their poverty, and point to the teachings of the prophets for their circumstance.  

 

They would say they followed the teachings of the prophets by not putting off marriage, and starting their family right away, somehow they forgot that they are supposed to be self sufficient.

 

Often times we see those two things do not go together.  In a perfect world people would follow the teachings of the prophets, all the teachings of the prophets. 

 

The students in my ward feel they have chosen righteously, and hold their heads up, and put their chests out, all the while they are on the government boobie...

 

Young people getting married while students with fancy cars and cell phones and section 8 housing and food stamps are the exception, rather than the rule.  You can look at statistics on the number of young married couples on section 8 housing if you like.  I'm sure there's a statistic on that somewhere on the govt. website...

 

But regardless... that has nothing to do with the counsel on marriage and all about the idiocy of young people.

[The Folk Prophet]

...driving nice cars, have fancy cell phones... 

 

Well, there's yer problem...

 

The students in my ward feel they have chosen righteously

 

Except the fancy cars, they have chosen righteously by marrying (assuming they married righteously).

 

I paid my tithing. I also have too much debt. Does the wrong decision cancel out the right decision? Should I be ashamed of my right choices because of my weaknesses?

 

In a perfect world people would follow the teachings of the prophets, all the teachings of the prophets. 

 

Yes. But this is not particularly relevant to whether we pursue marriage or not. Just as my poor financial choices in the past are irrelevant to whether I pay tithing or not.

 

People go into too much debt. It's a real problem. It is against the counsel we are given. I am guilty of it myself. People should not. What they should do, instead, is live cheaper, but still obey the counsel of the Lord to pay tithing and fast offerings, marry, have children, have food storage, etc.

 

I can say very confidently from my personal experience that my debt has nothing to do with the choice to get married. Nothing! It comes from not hearkening to the counsel I was given, not prioritizing things correctly, and being too consumed with the idea of living well, having stuff, and being comfortable. I would expect that this is true for most married couples who are in debt. It does not stem from marrying too early. (Obviously there are always exceptions).

[Suzie]

From the set of quotes I posted earlier:

 

 

 

We don’t want a young man to think of marriage until he is able to take care of a family, to have an institution of his own, to be independent...

 

Basically, don't even start thinking about marriage until you can take care of a family and be independent. It does not mean, you will have to wait until you are wealthy but it does not mean either that you will be foolish enough to get married, have children and you do not have the means to take care of them financially (basic needs) and otherwise.

 

 

 

“When full-time missionaries return home, they should be counseled concerning such matters as continuing their education or employment, strengthening family relationships, participating actively in the Church, paying tithes and offerings, and preparing for temple marriage. It is unwise, however, to ‘recommend that missionaries be married within a specific time. The decision to marry is so important that it should be made only after the most prayerful and careful consideration by the individual.’

 

I think this quote summons up what the Church feels about the topic.

[dahlia]

To hear the Church leaders tell it, there are plenty of older young women out there waiting to get married. Don't think there won't be any left. : )

 

Maybe you'd enjoy going on some group dates first, then going out alone. No one needs to know you haven't dated before, just go out and have fun. You will get the hang of things and be ready for solo dates in no time.

 

I understand that the Authorities don't want people to wait until life is 'perfect' to get married. You don't need a house, etc. to get married.  I agree with this wholeheartedly.  However, there is perfect and there is the 'better choice.' I would wait until I finished college before marriage.

 

Even if you marry the day after you graduate, you will be better off having that degree in hand. The possibility of the wife getting pregnant, of you having to stop school to get a job, etc. becomes very real once you are married and have an intimate  married life.  It's just better to be done so that you will be more marketable in case you have to support a family. This is a bit different from Anatess' experience. I agree  you don't need to wait until the spouse's career is going strong, but I do think, at least for undergrad, you should do it unencumbered. Grad school is a different story. Then it is helpful to have a companion.

 

You sound like a nice guy. Try getting more comfortable with other people so that you can at least go out on dates an enjoy yourself as you work toward your goals. You don't have to be alone during this time and when you are ready to get married, you will be ready to get married.

[Backroads]

To James:

 

Relax and start getting some sleep.  A mission is an awesome plan and 27 isn't too old for marriage.  As for your shyness, well, work with it.  You don't have to be antisocial, but don't be something you're not.  Get involved in your ward, find some local club, hang out with your fellow students.  Being the life of the party is not necessary to be involved in social groups.  I consider myself practically a hermit (mild social anxiety), yet my list of friends always surprises me with its length.  Once you get some semblance of a social life going on (you are a pre-med student, so a true social life may always be just a myth  ) things start might opening up for you, even in the direction of marriage.

 

But don't worry about it!  Just put yourself out there and start picking up some social skills.

 

Also, while enjoying your mockery of a social life whilst being a med student, work on being happy with yourself... just in case you don't get married.

 

But I wouldn't start panicking until you're pushing 40 and even then the ship still has't sailed.

 

 

To the debate on whether or not one should be in a true career before starting marriage, some thoughts:

 

I know three PhDs of the medical persuasion who graduated as much as two years ago and still can't find a position and I hear this isn't uncommon.  One is married to my old college roommate.  They have four kids.

 

I have a cousin who is in an ugly situation as neither she nor her husband have real jobs, insurance, savings.  Bunch of kids, another one on the way.

 

My husband got into college late (ranch boy, first one in the family to attend college) and graduated last year.  He has yet to find a career matching his degree and has been working as a security guard.  He will soon be starting his master's in hopes that will help with the job search, but we have very little student debt left(a couple thousand), just bought a house, feel extremely comfortable in our ability to make the payments, and are feeling pretty good.  Oh, and I gave birth before he technically graduated.  Yes, my hope was that my husband would immediately get an awesome geology job, but even though that has yet to happen we are still blessed, even financially so.  I don't think we are unable to support ourselves even though my husband didn't have a "real job" when we married.  

 

I agree, there's much wisdom in making sure you're fairly stable before entering marriage.  But I feel these three examples from all over the spectrum might demonstrate that the best-laid plans don't always happen as we want, sometimes we there are bad consequences if we are not sensible and prepare ourselves, and sometimes life surprises you for the better.

[mrmarklin]

A lot of this is cultural.

 

I know in Utah for example, a lot of people (Mormons) marry in college after missions, have children right away and struggle.  BUT there are a lot of similar couples in the same boat, and in addition, a lot of family and community support for this lifestyle.  Clearly the "advice" of the GAs over the years has led to this lifestyle as interpreted by some on this forum.  Although careful reading of the quotations contain no specific injunctions to do this.

 

From what I have read and heard over the pulpit the GAs are cautious, because everyone is different.  And I don't blame them at all for the possible faulty interpretations of their counsel.  People hear what they want to and what suits their desires.

 

Clearly students are in debt statistically, nationwide.  How to deal with these debt levels has been elevated to a national crisis.  So to play that down as a problem is silly.  I'm sure church members are not immune to national trends despite possible anecdotal evidence to the contrary.

 

The reality is this:  Financial problems are one of the three leading causes of divorce. 

 

So why would you marry before you are fully prepared?  Have a plan that can at least mitigate that problem.  You'll have plenty of others! :)

[The Folk Prophet]

So to play that down as a problem is silly.

 

Who's playing that down as a problem?

 

So why would you marry before you are fully prepared? 

 

One word.

 

Faith.

[mrmarklin]

Who's playing that down as a problem?

One word.

Faith.

The last paragraph of your post #41 seems to downplay your debt as part of a decision to marry. Maybe you're OK with it, but I'd venture most would be very uncomfortable with students. Well, it is a national problem.

I don't think its out of order to state it can be a serious consideration that should be taken into account when decidingto marry.

[omegaseamaster75]

President Harold B. Lee

“I am not trying to urge you younger men to marry too early. I think therein is one of the hazards of today’s living. We don’t want a young man to think of marriage until he is able to take care of a family, to have an institution of his own, to be independent. He must make sure that he has found the girl of his choice, they have gone together long enough that they know each other, and that they know each other’s faults and they still love each other.

Quote

“When full-time missionaries return home, they should be counseled concerning such matters as continuing their education or employment, strengthening family relationships, participating actively in the Church, paying tithes and offerings, and preparing for temple marriage. It is unwise, however, to ‘recommend that missionaries be married within a specific time. The decision to marry is so important that it should be made only after the most prayerful and careful consideration by the individual.’ (Mission President’s Handbook [31153], 1990, p. 23)” (Bulletin, 1993, no. 1, 2).

https://www.lds.org/...ection?lang=eng

This was posted earlier ....Harold B Lee thinks that you should not be married as a man until you can care for a family and be independent.

Sounds like I'm not to far off from the counsel of the church leaders as other have thought.

[Guest]

But we're talking about food, basic shelter, and clothing here. Not a big family home, 2 cars, etc. DH and I both made close to minimum wage when we got married. Not a lot more when we started having kids. But we lived within our means and had all we needed and more. If we had waited until we had everything that people think they "need" now, we would have gotten married maybe 5 years ago instead of 16. (And we would have divorced last year when things got financially tight again. LOL)

[The Folk Prophet]

The last paragraph of your post #41 seems to downplay your debt as part of a decision to marry. Maybe you're OK with it, but I'd venture most would be very uncomfortable with students. Well, it is a national problem.

I don't think its out of order to state it can be a serious consideration that should be taken into account when decidingto marry.

 

Then you did not understand the last paragraph of my post #41 at all.