Should we always be questioning?

[pipeorgan]

The church was restored by a man and men are not perfect.  Do you believe that Joseph Smith's revelations as well as other prophet's should be under scrutiny?  

[Just_A_Guy]

I don't think we should question merely for questioning's sake.  But if, in the course of our studies, questions or issues come up:  By all means we should explore them; honestly, with an open mind, and not trying to write personal revelation out of the process.

 

In another thread I referred you to The Crucible of Doubt by Terryl and Fiona Givens.  You really should read it.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Just_A_Guy

[estradling75]

The church was restored by a man and men are not perfect.  Do you believe that Joseph Smith's revelations as well as other prophet's should be under scrutiny?  

 

 

Scrutiny in the sense that everyone is entitled to pray an ask God if the Revelations are true and if they are prophets.  Strikes me a wise and part of the plan of God.

 

Scrutiny in the sense that God told me yes but I am going to look for flaws and reason to doubt anyways... Strikes me as very unwise

[pipeorgan]

I don't think we should question merely for questioning's sake.  But if, in the course of our studies, questions or issues come up:  By all means we should explore them; honestly, with an open mind, and not trying to write personal revelation out of the process.

 

In another thread I referred you to The Crucible of Doubt by Terryl and Fiona Givens.  You really should read it.

 

Thank you!  I will check it out.  

[pipeorgan]

Scrutiny in the sense that everyone is entitled to pray an ask God if the Revelations are true and if they are prophets.  Strikes me a wise and part of the plan of God.

 

Scrutiny in the sense that God told me yes but I am going to look for flaws and reason to doubt anyways... Strikes me as very unwise

 

Well, we have to remember that church doctrine wasn't brought forth by God, it was man with a lot of help of God.  Still, man is in the equation so isn't it very possible there are some flaws?  Didn't the church recently come out and renounce the teachings about black people?  Was that a flaw?  

[paulsifer42]

I've found that when I question and sincerely look for answers, keeping in mind what and why I believe what I already do, I often find my faith stronger than before I questioned.  So, I think we should always question, while keeping in mind the answers we've already received.  I highly recommend keeping a journal for this reason, documenting what you believe and why, so when questions come, you have as clear a picture as you can get of what you already believe and why.  I keep bringing up 'why' because I think the why is just as important to remember as the 'what'.

[pipeorgan]

I wish I felt like I can trust my own revelations but I am worried it is confirmation bias.  

[paulsifer42]

I wish I felt like I can trust my own revelations but I am worried it is confirmation bias.  

 

This takes time and experience.  Don't be so hard on yourself.  Whenever I look up to people who are more sure/better than me at something (my dad is a great example) I try to remember that I'm heading in the right direction, they've just been on that path a lot longer than I have.  I need to afford myself the same time they've been afforded.

[pipeorgan]

This takes time and experience.  Don't be so hard on yourself.  Whenever I look up to people who are more sure/better than me at something (my dad is a great example) I try to remember that I'm heading in the right direction, they've just been on that path a lot longer than I have.  I need to afford myself the same time they've been afforded.

 

Thank you.  You are right.  Part of me still wonders if it is just more years of confirmation bias, though.  I think I am having a faith crisis.  

[estradling75]

Well, we have to remember that church doctrine wasn't brought forth by God, it was man with a lot of help of God.  Still, man is in the equation so isn't it very possible there are some flaws?  Didn't the church recently come out and renounce the teachings about black people?  Was that a flaw?  

 

What part of Pray an ask God was unclear.  If God accepts it with all it flaws shouldn't you?

 

As for confirmation bias the big lesson we all need to learn is how to distinguish between our own thoughts and desires and the will of God revealed to us.  And yes it can take years and many false starts

[paulsifer42]

Thank you.  You are right.  Part of me still wonders if it is just more years of confirmation bias, though.  I think I am having a faith crisis.  

 

That can be legitimate.  Why did you join the church in the first place?

[pipeorgan]

That can be legitimate.  Why did you join the church in the first place?

 

I saw a lot of good in it and its members.  

[paulsifer42]

I saw a lot of good in it and its members.  

 

Perfect.  So, if I can make some assumptions, you saw that the church teachings, when followed, make for good people, and you wanted to be good people. :)

Edited October 7, 2014 by paulsifer42

[Traveler]

As an engineer and scientist - I believe we should always push the limits of our understanding and knowledge of things.  Scrutiny is an essential part of learning.  However, it is seldom wise to revisit previously proven conclusions - unless there is a contradiction in applying the proof or new parameters that alter the scope of what was previously considered.

[Jane_Doe]

As an engineer and scientist - I believe we should always push the limits of our understanding and knowledge of things.  Scrutiny is an essential part of learning.  However, it is seldom wise to revisit previously proven conclusions - unless there is a contradiction in applying the proof or new parameters that alter the scope of what was previously considered.

 

Building off of this--

 

In science we use our brains and evidence to best understand the world.  Once a theory is presented and generally accepted (say Darwin's evolution), we then build off of that.  We can go back and re-examine Darwin's evolution evolution (many have), but for day-to-day functioning we don't because it's exhausting to constantly be re-checking your previous work.  Instead, we go back and re-check old theories when there's a reason to: like something doesn't jive with new evidence. 

 

Human understanding of theology is similar, but with God occasionally dropping by and giving magical perfect answers.  

[Pa Pa]

The church was restored by a man and men are not perfect. Do you believe that Joseph Smith's revelations as well as other prophet's should be under scrutiny?

Not sure Joseph or anyone else would want us to never question. God calls flawed men, because nothing else is available.

[Palerider]

I saw a lot of good in it and its members.

You never felt the influence of the Holy Ghost and never gained a testimony of the Book of Mormon ?

[paulsifer42]

You never felt the influence of the Holy Ghost and never gained a testimony of the Book of Mormon ?

There are lots of reasons for joining the church, please don't shame him for joining for a distant reason than you think people should (assuming this was your intent, of course).

[paulsifer42]

You never felt the influence of the Holy Ghost and never gained a testimony of the Book of Mormon ?

There are lots of reasons for joining the church, please don't shame him for joining for a different reason than you think people should (assuming this was your intent, of course).

[Palerider]

There are lots of reasons for joining the church, please don't shame him for joining for a distant reason than you think people should (assuming this was your intent, of course).

All I have done is ask a question....I have every right to ask that...it's a question I would ask to anyone who had or has questions like the ones poster is asking

[paulsifer42]

All I have done is ask a question....I have every right to ask that...it's a question I would ask to anyone who had or has questions like the ones poster is asking

The way it was worded lead me to read it as accusatory. No offense intended. Just don't want him to get the impression he's done something wrong.

[Palerider]

The way it was worded lead me to read it as accusatory. No offense intended. Just don't want him to get the impression he's done something wrong.

Nothing wrong with what I asked

[Urstadt]

I believe we should question everything. But, I agree with what Paulsifer and JAG have said: it shouldn't be done nihilistically or with accusations.

Regarding confirmation bias: don't forget that confirmation bias is when we exclude challenging, true evidence. It's not just when we only believe what we want.

I believe gravity works every time.

*Throws keys up in the air*

Yep! Gravity still works! Now, is this confirmation bias? No. There is no evidence against my belief to ignore. With religion, there can be no confirmation bias because there is no evidence against it to ignore in the interest of confirming our biased beliefs.

Does that make sense?

Edited October 8, 2014 by Urstadt

[Leah]

There are lots of reasons for joining the church, please don't shame him for joining for a different reason than you think people should (assuming this was your intent, of course).

There was no shaming going on. A reasonable question was asked.

You read a lot into that question that wasn't there. That speaks to your mindset, and not to what was asked.

[Leah]

The way it was worded lead me to read it as accusatory. No offense intended. Just don't want him to get the impression he's done something wrong.

Again, you are reading something in to his question that was not there. And again, that speaks to your mindset and not to the reasonable question that was asked.