What does anti mean?

[Anddenex]

This is false, just plain false. Leah, I have not seen you speak up in any of my posts yet so I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you think I am just here to cause problems. Please read some of my other posts as I hope you will see the spirit in which I have been writing.

 

I have been trying to serve you all in that I am trying to be very careful in the way I talk about our differences. I have switched up my approach a number of times in service to you all. And it seems no matter what I do I am damned if I do and damned if I don't.

 

I would be lying if I said this is not frustrating. Still I serve God first and I will seek his guidance as I continue to try and understand.

 

Not really Byron.  The notion you have explained is that to make a judgement, judge*, implies condemning.  When a person specifies in a reply "The Book of Mormon is another gospel" as taught by Paul an individual indeed has made a judgement.  In other words Byron, you have thus condemned, using your words, all LDS members.

 

The only way an individual would specify such is that they have made a judgement, and in every sense through this dialogue you have specified to judge is to condemn.

[Guest]

Semantics, semantics...

 

Full Definition of JUDGE
1) form an opinion about through careful weighing of evidence and testing of premises

2) to determine or pronounce after inquiry and deliberation

3) govern, rule —used of a Hebrew tribal leader.

4) to form an estimate or evaluation of; especially :  to form a negative opinion about <shouldn'tjudge him because of his accent>

5) to hold as an opinion :  guess, think <I judge she knew what she was doing>

6) to decide or settle authoritatively

 

Full Definition of CONDEMN

7) to express an unfavorable or adverse judgment on; indicate strong disapproval of; censure.

8) to pronounce to be guilty; sentence to punishment: To condemn a murderer to life imprisonment.

9) to give grounds or reason for convicting or censuring: His acts condemn him.

10) to judge or pronounce to be unfit for use or service: to condemn an old building.

 

I believe we all can and should do #1, 2, 4, & 5.

 

I believe that definition 7 is what Byron is saying is judging/condemning.  And I'd agree.  But I believe it is impossible to get away from this entirely.  If we do judge, eventually, something bad will come around that we have to judge.  If we are to speak our opinion on such things (which is what forums do) then we will eventually express strong disapproval of them.

 

And, yes, Byron.  You were doing that too.  "The BoM is a cursed book."

 

 

Full Definition of ANTI-

 

1) a person who is opposed to a particular practice, party, policy, action,etc.

2) a prefix meaning “against,” “opposite of"

3) against; opposing

4) opposite to, counteracting, inhibiting, or neutralizing.

5) A prefix whose basic meaning is "against." It is used to form adjectives that mean "counteracting".

 

Origin

Middle English < Latin < Greek, prefixal use of antí; akin to Sanskrit ánti opposite.

 

I did find one mention in an obscure description that said "instead of" (in place of).  But that isn't germane to the discussion.  Words have more than one meaning.  It is the meaning that was intended that needs to match certain commonly accepted meanings for communication to take place.  Then the recipient of the communication needs to understand which meaning was intended.

 

When I use the word "anti-Mormon" I mean one who actively opposes and actively attempts to counteract, neutralize, and/or condemn Mormons because of their beliefs.  We can alternatively define it as one who does that to the belief system rather than the individuals.  But in the end, the statements, arguments, and so forth eventually lead to the same thing.

 

The litmus test for me is whether a person believes "Mormonism" is a "cult".  Sure, you can go to the dictionary definitions which would indicate ANY religion qualifies. But let's face it, the connotations are made to insult and injure, not to bring about a logical discussion.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Guest

[Blackmarch]

From my studies I have come to understand 'anti' means 'in place of'. I learned this when discussing with 7th day Adventists who insist that the pope is the anti-Christ that the pope stands in place of Christ. 

 

But what does it mean when used in the form of ant-gay, anti-theist, or anti-Mormon? I guess one can say that the English language is evolving and that a secondary meaning has come to play in which 'anti' means 'against'. Or perhaps this is yet another example of man's desire to categorize and compartmentalize all things he sees. There is a school of belief that believes that man was charged with naming all things in creation and if you are of that school I am sure you can agree that this is simply a means by which God has entrusted us to be good stewards over creation. But when we use words (like anti-Mormon') designed to separate and ostracize each other I believe we are not doing God's will.

 

You might ask, 'Well, how then do we address those that would come to our forum and preach against our faith?'

 

I think it best to not add fuel to the fire. I believe it best that should someone approach me with words of hatred I deflect the words and respond with kindness or simply ignore the words. Calling someone anti-'anything' is really no different than saying, "I am right and you are wrong", or "I am better than you." This is pride, and pride is sin.

to mirror.. but in this case  it refers to an individual who prefers to troll rather than to really learn.

[The Folk Prophet]

Let me clarify the implicit in my statement. Sincere in their stated motivations for good. (or in other words sincere in their statement of truly being curious about what they heard and wanting to understand where we are coming from and clear up some misinformation) Hopefully you get what i'm saying...I can always write an entire paragraph trying to narrow down all the loopholes in what i'm attempting to say...but that would be a bit redundant and TL;DR (too long didn't read) for everyone.

 

Oh...I knew what you meant. :) But I have seen it written or implied several times, and I'm not sure every time I've seen it that the meaning was "intent for good". I think some do get confused that if someone is sincere that must therefore equate to virtuous good. (This is particularly prevalent in the homosexual related debates, for example).

 

But I would also point out that intent for good is also, really, not the qualifying factor for good. Most of those who do evil probably intend to do good as they see it. As it's said, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

 

Does anyone think that the sincere anti-Mormon doesn't have good intentions? They're still going about tearing down the church of God and (thereby) building up the kingdom of the devil.

 

Of course I understand that you didn't really mean this either. But still...if the Lamanites honestly, truly, sincerely, believe that the "wicked" Nephites need to be conquered for the good of all, the Nephites still have a responsibility to take up arms and defend themselves.

 

But I'm off topic. Just sharing thoughts.

[Guest MormonGator]

Just as a side note and entirely off topic: I've seen people say this a lot -- as if sincerity in and of itself is a virtue. But sincerity doesn't really define good and bad. Sincerely evil is still sincere. Even Satan is sincere in his desire to destroy us.

   So true. You can be sincere, wonderful, have good intentions-and be totally wrong. Sincerity does not define good or bad. Absolutely.

Sorry I just see this so much in life. "My intentions were good." Nope, not enough.  

[jerome1232]

To be honest. I actually think sincerity does play in. Who is worse, the one who believes they are trying to show you the light and save your soul or the one who's only desire is to show off how smart and right they are and how dumb and wrong you are and does so under a guise of ignorance or care?

Edited November 5, 2015 by jerome1232

[Vort]

To be honest. I actually think sincerity does play in. Who is worse, the one who believes they are trying to show you the light and save your soul or the one who's only desire is to show off how smart and right they are and how dumb and wrong you are and does so under a guise of ignorance or care?

 

Sincerity is important. It separates the liars from those seeking truth. But sincerity is not enough to guarantee that you're right. Lots of very sincere people are dead wrong.

[Traveler]

To be honest. I actually think sincerity does play in. Who is worse, the one who believes they are trying to show you the light and save your soul or the one who's only desire is to show off how smart and right they are and how dumb and wrong you are and does so under a guise of ignorance or care?

 

Sincerity is over rated - I would very much rather be deeply embarrassed by truth than delighted to any degree by a sincere falsehood - temptation is not always an effort to make lies applying - sometimes temptations is as simple as making the truth and a dedication to truth appear undesirable, difficult, mean or even insincere.  Being sincere about a lie - is still a lie.

[jerome1232]

Sincerity means to be free of decit, you cannot sincerely lie.

[theSQUIDSTER]

Sincerity means to be free of decit, you cannot sincerely lie.

I'd like to second this. I think we're getting on a strange tangent.. I think most people who use the word "sincere" mean that there is not only honesty in intention and motive, but also honesty in ------- > *presentation* .

By this definition Satan cannot possibly be sincere.. But then neither are any of the rest of us. We are ALL conflicted and contradictory beings.. Even Jesus deflected a compliment from someone calling Him "good Master" and said that only God is truly good. He wasn't yet finished with His ministry and still had yet to fully prove Himself as absolutely GOOD, which, happily, He did!

So .. The rest of us struggle with degrees of goodness and badness, sincerity and insincerity..

Byron,

I'd also like to second Carborendum's suggestion that you stay and get to know us. I have a very different impression of you now than when you first started posting. I'm certain there are good things we could learn from each other. I'm glad that you've decided to linger just a little bit longer than you may have initially intended. :)

[Traveler]

I will agree - if we all agree that it is impossible to be sincere about something that is not 100% true. But that would mean that someone cannot be sincere in trying to find the truth.  This would mean that sincerity is not being true to one's beliefs - It would mean that they are only sincere in their beliefs that are true - if there is a flaw in their understanding then they are not sincere???  But then the problem I have with that - is by our fallen nature we must live by faith - so that gets us back to a previous discussion - Is it faith if there is some flaw in understanding.

 

This means that no one is really sincere - like being perfect - it just is not possible for mortals. 

Edited November 5, 2015 by Traveler

[jerome1232]

Huh? Who said that? Certainly not I. I said you cannot decieve and be sincere. Being sincere means that I am doing something and when I tell you why I am doing it I am being honest and genuine about my intentions and whatnot.

Nothing about whether those intentions are good or in your favor or whether I am wrong etc...

Edited November 5, 2015 by jerome1232

[Guest]

Forgive me.  But it seems you're all straining at the gnat and swallow the camel.  Understand the difference between 100% and "good enough" for practical purposes.  Sincere enough is all we need in a forum like this.

 

All we can ask is that when one asks a question they will acknowledge any hypocrisy and avoid deception in word or deed.  I'd also appreciate it if they didn't just make stuff up on the fly BECAUSE it's Mormon belief.

 

e.g. -- I had some really good friends growing up who really disagreed with the Church.  And while we were good friends, when it came to religion, I'd label them as anti-Mormons.  

 

As I was telling them the story of Lehi and his family, we got to the part where Nephi was building the boat.  One of them said, "Ah-Hah!  They didn't even have boats back in 600 BC!"

 

I and the other anti-Mormon friends all looked at him as if to say, "Did you seriously just say that?"      

 

But he was being so stubborn that even when I pointed out Noah, he said, "Yeah.  But that is because God told him how to build it.  It even says so in the Bible."

 

<    .>

 

He was so stuck on the notion that the BoM was wrong that even when it was clear his accusation was false, he still felt like he had to grasp at something -- anything -- before he would admit he was wrong.