Eye-roller of the day: Declaring war on "said"

[Vort]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/use-more-expressive-words-teachers-bark-beseech-implore-1448835350

 

This public school teacher, who teaches middle school English, could be the poster girl for why people homeschool. Unless you're writing a trashy romance novel, characters don't "interject" or "implore" or "declare". They "say". But she wants to do away with all that.

 

To be blunt: What kind of a teacher would teach children to avoid using common, simple words in favor of stupid frufru words?

Edited December 22, 2015 by Vort

[Backroads]

I saw a teacher poster that offered alternatives to "said". I wanted to tear it on half. Said is a nice invisible word that lets dialogue do its job while maintaining a flow of logic.

[Backroads]

And that article has some hysterical comments.

Now, I'm in favor of exploring different words. But humans do not howl or bark... and I won't risk possible rule-breaking by mentioning another alternative to "said" bad writers have used before.

[prisonchaplain]

May I interject that the use of "juicy words" is frequently taught in upper elementary and middle school.  Further, let me opine that leading the young away from filler words like "good" and "said," is an effective way of encouraging more sophisticated and colorful writing.

 

Enough said. 

[zil]

Apparently an over-abundance of adverbs is this woman's way of avoiding the much more difficult, "show, don't tell" - it's much more difficult (to teach someone how) to show emotion than to use an adverb.

 

"When you catch an adjective, kill it." - Mark Twain.

 

Maybe they should read 1984 - that'll help them figure out new ways to say things...

 

PC: Sorry, but when "good" or "said" is the right word, replacing it isn't sophisticated or colorful, it's just bad.

[Anddenex]

 

characters don't "interject" or "implore" or "declare". They "say". 

 

This is the only statement I am confused with, other than that, said teacher is more evidence of the decrease in our educational system. 

 

Her emphasis on "boring" words is a standard "good intentioned" philosophy that will ultimately decrease the value of writing styles.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Anddenex

[prisonchaplain]

I still contend that young students learning to write well may need artificial prohibitions on the most commonly used words--as a tool to force them to learn more flavorful alternatives.  Once we learn the rules, then we can abandon them and claim artistic license.

[Guest]

"Purple prose is particularly painful," she profusely pontificated. 

[Backroads]

I still contend that young students learning to write well may need artificial prohibitions on the most commonly used words--as a tool to force them to learn more flavorful alternatives. Once we learn the rules, then we can abandon them and claim artistic license.

I disagree. Most wind up believing fancy words over rightly placed words is the way to go. Save lessons on synonyms for times separate than clear writing.

[zil]

I still contend that young students learning to write well may need artificial prohibitions on the most commonly used words--as a tool to force them to learn more flavorful alternatives.  Once we learn the rules, then we can abandon them and claim artistic license.

 

I disagree with the way this (from the article in the OP) is presented - ban "boring"* words and replace them with "interesting" or "colorful" words.

 

A) We should not teach anyone to ban any speech (excepting the filthy in polite society)

 

B) Replacement with a synonym does not teach the nuances of the words so that the right one can be used in the right place, it teaches that a word is "boring"* all the time and that other words are (more) "interesting" all the time - nonsense.

 

I remember when "colorful" was how we described "foul" language.  Not sure we want to encourage this in children.

 

There are other ways to teach children to use a variety of words, they're just going to be a lot harder and all of them take time.  How about the teacher picks a common word, listing some synonyms selected for their nuances in meaning, then constructs a sentence with the common word.  First, the teacher teaches about the synonyms and their nuances.  Then the teacher has the students change the sentence, once for each synonym, in a way that makes the synonym is the best word to use in that (now changed) sentence.  A lot more work for everyone!  A lot more effective, IMO.

 

When I was in 9th grade, we had to write a paper (essay, short story, poem, whatever) where the first letter of the first word in the first sentence was "A", the first letter of the first word in the second sentence was "B", and so on to "Z" at least once.  In addition to teaching us to think about what words we used, it taught us to use alternate sentence structures.  I managed 4 times through the alphabet, less 4 letters.  (Short story, set in Greece - made the X easier. :) )  It may not be much better, but it's better than simple ban and replace.

 

*Boring is in your head, not in a word.  My boss once handed out this little motivational card (before he knew us all well - he was the newbie in the group).  It had clipart of a dog and said something along the lines of, "If you're never the lead dog, your view will never change." (as in, your view of the butt of the dog in front of you).  He thought it would encourage us to take the lead sometimes (on projects or whatever).  My very first thought, within milliseconds of reading the quote was, "If your view depends on what's in front of your eyes, you need to work on developing your imagination."

[Just_A_Guy]

I grew up being taught that certain words were "dead words" to be avoided whenever possible, said being one of them. 

 

To borrow from theological terminology:  I don't think the avoidance of dead words is a literary doctrine.  But I think, when directed to children of a certain age, it is a good policy in order to challenge children's vocabularies and induce them to think about alternative ways to express things.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Just_A_Guy

[David13]

I grew up being taught that certain words were "dead words" to be avoided whenever possible, said being one of them. 

 

To borrow from theological terminology:  I don't think the avoidance of dead words is a literary doctrine.  But I think, when directed to children of a certain age, it is a good policy in order to challenge children's vocabularies and induce them to think about alternative ways to express things.

 

 

Hey, you didn't happen to go to school in Costa Mesa, did you?

dc

[David13]

"Purple prose is particularly painful," she profusely pontificated. 

 

Eowyn is channeling Spiro Agnew.

dc

[David13]

If I recall correctly, long ago the kids stopped using the word says, and replaced it everywhere with goes.

I goes, then he goes, then she goes.

No, they don't goes.  They says.

dc

[Guest]

I'm not exactly sure what is wrong with this.  This is a perfectly acceptable practice -- AS LONG AS it is applied with appropriate context and methodology.  But the article didn't SAY enough to make that determination.

[prisonchaplain]

Maybe my tolerance of this "ban" effort is that it appears to me to be more tongue-in-cheek than political correctness.  We've become so irritated with PC efforts, that we reflex at any bans and prohibitions.  "Ban boring!" just strikes me as dry humor, not as a serious effort to destroy SAID.

Edited December 22, 2015 by prisonchaplain

[zil]

You people need to go read (more) good (better) books.

[Just_A_Guy]

Hey, you didn't happen to go to school in Costa Mesa, did you?

dc

 

No, but same state . . . I grew up in central California.

[RipplecutBuddha]

"I am disinclined to aquiese to your request.... Means 'no'."

 

My favorite line from the pirate trilogy.

 

Here's my view. Both Edgar Allen Poe and William Shakespeare had voluminous vocabularies, as well as solid command of multiple other languages beyond english. Neither one of them was afraid to display their respective prowess. The result is that both happen to be legendary literary giants.

 

Here's the odd part. I love E.A. Poe, but I cannot bear to read Shakespeare. I have tried repeatedly, but to no avail.

 

There's nothing wrong with encouraging the elevation of one's reading and writing skill level. After all, there are degree-bearing college graduates that have an abhorrent lack of spelling and grammar ability, much less reading level.

 

I think using the word 'ban' when one merely means 'to avoid when possible' is a trendy word in itself that ought to be avoided. Much along the lines of using the word 'hack' in place of the word 'tip'. Another one I dislike is the phrase 'you're doing it wrong' when all the presenter is sharing is a different way to accomplish something which may, or may not, be better or more effective.

 

Either way, moderation in all things with an eye to constant and consistent improvement is the best method.

Edited December 22, 2015 by RipplecutBuddha

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Interesting that this article, or these teachers think this is a new idea.  I was taught the same thing in school.  Bad advice too.  Now as an adult writer I'm told "said is invisible" and perfectly acceptable, and not to use things like "he shouted"...show, don't tell y'all. (I agree with this advice.)  I understand and appreciate PC's point, but I don't think we need to go so far as teaching bad writing to encourage more colorful writing. 

[Guest]

It would be unwelcome for you to forcibly apply products of incomplete combustion to my colo-rectal cavity.

[Guest]

Sure.  Make English even more difficult, why don't you.

 

Banning words is stupid.  Teaching WHEN to use words - including said and bad and good - is a better teaching method.  Words are important and each word have their place in expression.  Giving words a funeral defies that concept and teaches that there are words that are not important.

[Vort]

I normally try to avoid calling things "stupid", but occasionally the shoe fits so well that it's really the most fitting word. This is such a case. Based on the responses here, it seems this idea is not new with this particular teacher, but has been around for some time. So perhaps she is not guilty of making up an entire new field of stupidity, but merely of promulgating an old stupidity.

 

As an artificial exercise, I don't see anything wrong with telling kids, "This semester, we're going to do an exercise in constrained writing by banning the use of certain common words. There is nothing wrong with these words, but sometimes we tend to use them when another word might be better. So we're going to list out the 'banned' words and then avoid them -- for this semester." That would be fine. But since that is clearly not what she was saying, I do believe it is exactly as stupid as I have suggested.

[Backroads]

This is triggering memories of reading bad fanfiction where characters do all sorts of strange and unnatural actions to put forth dialogue.

I need a safe space.

[Guest]

I'm reminded of the Star Trek reboot (2009) where Capt Pike is talking with the Nero:

 

Pike: I'm Captain Christopher Pike. To whom am I speaking?

Nero: Hi, Christopher. I'm Nero.

The contrast between the formal and informal was almost comical.