Explaining Mosiah 15: 3-4 to a teenager?

[NeedleinA]

3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—

 4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.

So just the other night my 13 yr old son out of blue asks, "What is going on with Mosiah 15: 3-4, I thought we didn't do the trinity thing?"

First impressions... "Wow, he asked a church question!", then "Wow, he is reading his scriptures without us asking!" then "How does he even know the word trinity?".

So old wise dad starts off into this long winded blab about it that was perhaps not watered down enough for him. Looking for your help in teenage talk. How would you explain these two versus to a teenager in about 3-5 sentences max (attention span ends after 5 sentences)?? Thanks in advance!

[The Folk Prophet]

The same way the church explains it. They are one in purpose. Done and done.

[NeedleinA]

11 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

They are one in purpose. Done and done.

This was my wife's answer to him. My kid acted like that wasn't going to fly, that is when Ol' Papa opened the flood gates of too much information.

[The Folk Prophet]

How on earth is that not gonna fly? It's what we believe.

[Vort]

What does it mean to be a father? Why do we call the Father "father"? How is he our father? Is there a sense in which the Son is our "father"?

I find that asking (and answering) simple, fundamental questions like the above has helped my children (and their father) in understanding fundamental gospel principles. There are many scriptures illustrating Christ's position as a father to us (e.g. "bishop of our souls"). This is probably the route I would take.

Disclaimer: Different children are, well, different. What works for my kids might not work for yours. Heck, what works for my kids doesn't always work for mine.

[NeedleinA]

41 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

How on earth is that not gonna fly?

1. He is a teenager (apparently going on age 30).

2. He is a thinker and at it's surface, even I can see where his confusion can come from. 

3. He is always open for a little debate. 

On a side note, years ago while teaching Gospel Doctrine, we looked at Moses 1:6, and when it was done I asked the entire class, can you tell me who is speaking? About half the class (120 people) got the answer wrong. A quarter sat in silence (or scared to answer). Only a quarter of the them actually knew who was talking. Even some of the ones who got it right, only guessed right.

6 And I have a work for thee, Moses, my son; and thou art in the similitude of mine Only Begotten; and mine Only Begotten is and shall be the Savior, for he is full of grace andtruth; but there is no God beside me, and all things are present with me, for I know them all.

[The Folk Prophet]

16 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

even I can see where his confusion can come from. 

Why? Explain further.

Fact: God and Jesus, both being physical beings, are not the same physical being.

Ergo: Any time they are spoken of as "one" it cannot mean literally physically.

Ergo: It must mean in purpose and function.

Why is this confusing?

I'm not asking to be confrontational. I really cannot see how it's confusing.

[NeedleinA]

16 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I'm not asking to be confrontational. I really cannot see how it's confusing.

I don't think you are being confrontational at all, and I appreciate your input. On a side note: Sweet avatar! My boys and I are total Star Wars nerds. They have been playing this song on repeat for a couple days now: Bad Lip Reading Star Wars

"Explain further":

The confusion can arise by solely reading those versus (3&4) alone. Had there been an accompanying versus (perhaps 2 or 5) referring to " Fact: God and Jesus, both being physical beings, are not the same physical being." it would have made a smoother transition for him, (perhaps?). 

[The Folk Prophet]

17 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

The confusion can arise by solely reading those versus (3&4) alone. Had there been an accompanying versus (perhaps 2 or 5) referring to " Fact: God and Jesus, both being physical beings, are not the same physical being." it would have made a smoother transition for him, (perhaps?). 

I guess I'd go with then, "That's why living prophets and apostles are so important."

[NeedleinA]

20 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I guess I'd go with then, "That's why living prophets and apostles are so important."

Sounds good TFP, thanks!

[estradling75]

Along the lines of what Vort was saying..There are other ways to gain the title of Father...  For example the United States has Founding Fathers... we have the Father of Modern Medicine etc.. etc...  Not all the ways we use Father implies that there is a Mother.

I believe there are also scripture that say when we take upon ourselves the Name of Christ and are baptized he becomes our Father (Clearly in the secondary sense given above).

Also given the clear scriptures that tell us that Christ created the Earth (under the direction of the Father) thus calling him the Father of Heaven and Earth doesn't seem that much of a problem either.

 

 

 

[mordorbund]

You can refer him to the First Presidency. https://www.lds.org/ensign/2002/04/the-father-and-the-son?lang=eng

I think discussion is more important in this case though. Walk through the verses with him and see which parts make sense and which parts take some pondering. I don't think the answers are particularly important (so long as both unity and distinctness are maintained) so much as the journey together here. I don't know that I've read those verses the same way twice, so don't be so determined to arrive at "the correct solution"(c) as to get him started in the process of understanding the scriptures himself.

[NeedleinA]

46 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

Along the lines of what Vort was saying..There are other ways to gain the title of Father...  For example the United States has Founding Fathers... we have the Father of Modern Medicine etc.. etc...  Not all the ways we use Father implies that there is a Mother.

Yes, very good point!!

[Guest]

So, I'm imagining my 12 and 14 year-olds asking me this question.

This, to me, is not a question about Mosiah but a question about the Trinity.  If my sons ask me this question, I'd explain to them what the Trinity is because they already know what the Godhead is having attended Primary and becoming a deacon plus all our family discussions.  They probably heard about the Trinity from their Catholic family (which is most of them) so that's where I'd start especially since I'm well-versed in Trinitarian belief growing up Catholic.  So then I can brush up on their knowledge of the Godhead and how it is different from the Trinity.  Then they can figure out for themselves what that passage means.

Edited February 12, 2016 by anatess

[NeedleinA]

So, we just go back from going out to dinner. My wife read this whole thread on our way there. She tried to do different voices for each of you too! Gave us a great discussion and things went super peachy! He gets it, and gets it to the point where he can put it all together without me having to spoon feed it. 

Gracias everyone!

[The Folk Prophet]

Now I want to know what your wife sounded like as TFP. What sanctimonious voice do people imagine for me I wonder.

Edited February 13, 2016 by The Folk Prophet

[SpiritDragon]

1 hour ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Now I want to know what your wife sounded like as TFP. What sanctimonious voice do people imagine for me I wonder.

Currently I envision you with the voice of Alec Guinness (Obi Wan Kenobi) speaking to guide Luke Skywalker as a dead guy  

[NeedleinA]

Funny enough, I think it was old time gold-rush prospector. Go figure

[SpiritDragon]

With your past Avatar I envisioned more of a 19th century American English-accented voice with deep and powerful conviction - like Wilford Woodruff or Brigham Young tend to be depicted in film.

[NeedleinA]

9 minutes ago, SpiritDragon said:

With your past Avatar I envisioned more of a 19th century American English-accented voice with deep and powerful conviction - like Wilford Woodruff or Brigham Young tend to be depicted in film.

This is almost how I envisioned it too. I'm sure my wife got the prospector from the "Folk" part though.

[estradling75]

Ok... Now I have to ask... What type of voice do people give me?

 

 

[The Folk Prophet]

51 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

Funny enough, I think it was old time gold-rush prospector. Go figure

Well that's exactly how I sound. 

49 minutes ago, SpiritDragon said:

With your past Avatar I envisioned more of a 19th century American English-accented voice with deep and powerful conviction - like Wilford Woodruff or Brigham Young tend to be depicted in film.

Wait...that's exactly how I sound!

[Vort]

I'd ask what I sounded like, but I'm afraid I sounded like someone who would be afraid to ask what he sounded like.

What did she make you sound like, Needle?

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Just a thought about teenager attention spans...I believe you can increase their attention span by asking them more questions.  Adults tend to jump in and yammer on for a while and kids lose interest.  If you can get him to think it through himself by asking questions, he will be more focused and the answers will mean more.  

[NeedleinA]

2 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

Just a thought about teenager attention spans...I believe you can increase their attention span by asking them more questions.  Adults tend to jump in and yammer on for a while and kids lose interest.  If you can get him to think it through himself by asking questions, he will be more focused and the answers will mean more.  

Very true LP!