Filthy Lucre


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11 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Is reading Shakespeare okay? His humor could be quite bawdy. 

I don't understand your point, Gator. It sounds to me like you are suggesting the following:

  1. William Shakespeare is widely, almost universally, recognized as a brilliant playwright.
  2. William Shakespeare's writings often contain sexual puns, double entendres, and other vulgar jokes.
  3. Therefore, there can be nothing wrong per se with vulgarity and sexual innuendo.

If this is what you are saying, I reject the syllogism as both illogical and poorly founded. If this is not what you are saying, then you lost me. Can you explain what you meant?

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21 minutes ago, Vort said:

Can you explain what you meant?

Sure.  Just asking a simple question. Can a Mormon in good standing read Shakespeare? 

Edited by MormonGator
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7 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

All depends on their reading abilities;)
Sorry, my dumb comment for the day. (exits stage left)

Lol. 

My BA is in English.  I can give you bad puns and cheesy jokes about writers until we're both bored to death.  

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15 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Sure.  Just asking a simple question. Can a Mormon in good standing read Shakespeare? 

So it's just a simple question? Then it has a simple answer: Yes, a Mormon in good standing can read Shakespeare, just as he can go to an R-rated movie, read Cosmopolitan, or go to the Louvre. Whether a Mormon should do such things is another matter.

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10 minutes ago, Vort said:

So it's just a simple question? Then it has a simple answer: Yes, a Mormon in good standing can read Shakespeare, just as he can go to an R-rated movie, read Cosmopolitan, or go to the Louvre. Whether a Mormon should do such things is another matter.

If you think a Mormon should not read Shakespeare or go to the Louvre because of content, I truly believe you are misinterpreting prophetic counsel. There is a huge difference between modern movies (ironically, I don't watch many movies and I tend to agree with you that they are needlessly vulgar) and classical works of art. 

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48 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Following the logic, one might as well justify porn viewing by the existence of gynecology.

Following the logic I'm laying down, one might as well ask if a good LDS man can be a gynecologist.  I figure the answer to that is also yes.  Although here in Colorado Springs, we got a heck of a lot more LDS anesthesiologists than gynocologists.

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20 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

If you think a Mormon should not read Shakespeare or go to the Louvre because of content, I truly believe you are misinterpreting prophetic counsel. There is a huge difference between modern movies (ironically, I don't watch many movies and I tend to agree with you that they are needlessly vulgar) and classical works of art. 

If you're under the impression that classical works of art are never needlessly vulgar than I think you are a just a wee bit blind on the matter. Not that I'm disagreeing with you entirely. Just that the fact that something is "classic" and/or "art" isn't really meaningful in and of itself. I remember the last time I went to a museum. I was, actually, quite a bit shocked, and a bit offended, at the sheer amount of nudity. I understand the nude in classical art has its place and level of importance at some level. But my sense was that the amount of nudity was both gratuitous and vulgar (if only mildly so).

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22 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

If you think a Mormon should not read Shakespeare or go to the Louvre because of content, I truly believe you are misinterpreting prophetic counsel. There is a huge difference between modern movies (ironically, I don't watch many movies and I tend to agree with you that they are needlessly vulgar) and classical works of art. 

I think I do not agree. I speak as a lover of Shakespeare, one of the hordes who genuflects to his greatness. But if the Spirit teaches a man to avoid all evil, even to the level of a raunchy Shakespearean pun, then that is what the man must do if he would behold the face of God and glory in his presence.

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20 minutes ago, Vort said:

I think I do not agree. I speak as a lover of Shakespeare, one of the hordes who genuflects to his greatness. But if the Spirit teaches a man to avoid all evil, even to the level of a raunchy Shakespearean pun, then that is what the man must do if he would behold the face of God and glory in his presence.

I'm glad we both like Shakespeare. 

in order to avoid evil, shouldn't you just read only scripture though? And do absolutely nothing else? No MMA, no sports at all. No going to the beach, the mall, hiking, or anything else.No other books, magazines, newspapers. No TV at all, no music, no movies or video games, no internet. No paintings, no drawings, no sculptures.  Nothing. I'm not mocking you or making fun of you-I'm trying to show you how the slippery slope begins. 

Edited by MormonGator
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52 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

in order to avoid evil, shouldn't you just read only scripture though? And do absolutely nothing else? No MMA, no sports at all. No going to the beach, the mall, hiking, or anything else.No other books, magazines, newspapers. No TV at all, no music, no movies or video games, no internet. No paintings, no drawings, no sculptures.  Nothing. I'm not mocking you or making fun of you-I'm trying to show you how the slippery slope begins. 

I don't think you're mocking me, but I don't think it's a slippery slope at all. I make no excuses for MMA; I don't pretend it's a good, Godly thing, and as I find myself thinking it more evil, I start pulling away. But I don't justify my weaknesses or bad taste. Same with sports, plays, movies, music, TV, conversation topics, magazines, chatting with friends, etc. We should always be moving toward God. We don't do it that way, but we should.

No, avoiding evil does not mean reading scriptures and nothing else. It does not mean hermiting yourself. But it does mean being an example, and it most certainly means censoring your actions and your intake to a degree unheard of among the worldly. People think it's risible. They point and laugh. But some of them look at the example and are inspired, taking strength from us. Our duty is to do our duty (a bit meta and self-referential, but there you go). If others laugh at us and mock, the appropriate response is to heed them not.

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13 minutes ago, Vort said:

. But some of them look at the example and are inspired, taking strength from us. Our duty is to do our duty (a bit meta and self-referential, but there you go). If others laugh at us and mock, the appropriate response is to heed them not.

Just be careful you (not you as in Vort) don't 1) view everything as sinful. Just because you don't personally like it, doesn't mean it's sinful. (again, not you as in Vort) and 2) think you (again, not you as in Vort) are holier than everyone else just because we might watch sports, go to art galleries or read the classics.  

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2 hours ago, zil said:

Isn't that what they use to stock the vending machines in hell? :satan:

(Just kidding.)

It stands to reason, since Heaven has Dr. Pepper on tap with plenty of pellet ice available. :)

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18 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

It stands to reason, since Heaven has Dr. Pepper on tap with plenty of pellet ice available. :)

In Heaven they better have my chilled Perrier. I am such a diva. 

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7 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

 

I think about the following people:
* Police officers
* Rape crisis folks
* Mental health professionals
* Corrections officers
* Social workers (of all kinds) specializing in former child sex workers (of all kinds)
* Milpsych people dealing with global threats like Jihadic terrorism
* Teachers who want to make a difference with their students

These folks do indeed "have to watch NC-17"-type stuff as part of their jobs.  I am totally grateful we have LDS folks willing to be in these jobs, wading through the evil as best they can, trying to keep the filth from rubbing off onto their psyches.  I know many of them bear scars from the battle. 

Anyone here of the opinion that people trying to be good disciples of Christ should avoid those professions?

At one point, I was actually looking to follow one of my brothers into the criminal justice field. I even took a few intro classes in high school, and as part of it I wound up doing a paper on infamous serial killer Ted Bundy. 

You see, all of the aptitude tests put me in the business world. Thing is, I was graduating just as Enron, Arthur Anderson, and a whole host of other corporate accounting scandals were happening. This put the FBI and other federal entities in a bind, as they had more criminal justice majors than business types. This was making it a lot harder for them to analyze the books in order to see just how badly they were cooked. The plan was that I'd get a degree in business and then undergo the training necessary to enter the CJ field, the ultimate goal being to get into one of these organizations that were handling matters. 

Unfortunately, due to matters well beyond my control (such as a professor quitting the day that particular term was supposed to start, forcing the college to cancel that particular course), I faced delays in getting my undergraduate work done. By the time I had my bachelor's degree in hand, the various organizations had already made up for their shortfalls and so weren't recruiting business types any longer. Despite this, I've still tried to keep up with developments in the CJ field, including certain specific cases. 

As you can imagine, what my brother and I would consider "light conversation" would probably give most normal people nightmares. 

Edited by Ironhold
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7 hours ago, MormonGator said:

I had someone once tell me that Saved by the Bell was offensive and shouldn't be watched by Catholics. Dead serious. 

A sort of manager of mine was "so proud" that she walked out of Field of Dreams.  I'm not exactly sure what offensive material it contained.  But, nonetheless...

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7 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

A sort of manager of mine was "so proud" that she walked out of Field of Dreams.  I'm not exactly sure what offensive material it contained.  But, nonetheless...

I've walked out of Adam Sandler movies. Not because they've been offensive to my morals (But he is rude, disgusting and vile), but because they've been offensive to good comedy. I swear Carb, I'm the only thirty something year old man who thinks Adam Sandler is vulgar, crass, gross, but worse-flat out not funny. Someone needs to tell him that his "funny voices" are annoying, not amusing.  

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Guest MormonGator

These duplicate posts have to stop! Even I get tired of repeating my brilliant and witty points twice in a row! 

Edited by MormonGator
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16 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

As you can imagine, what my brother and I would consider "light conversation" would probably give most normal people nightmares. 

Our High Priest Group has law enforcement officers and many military nuclear officers in it. From war heads incinerating the "enemy" and finding decomposing bodies in allies, our HPG really takes on some interesting perspectives. Being the HPGL, part of me wants to reel them into focusing on the specifics of the lesson. The truth is, their lives have a different reality from mine and it is important for them to share how they juggle their professions with the gospel. Makes for some really interesting conversations. 

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All we ever talk about in the Houston area is oil & gas.  Virtually everyone at church is employed in the industry.  Last ward about 95% (not exaggerated).  Current ward about 65% (and we're not exactly "in town").

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