Visiting teaching, what to do?

[Sunday21]

Dear Bros and Sis's,

i am assigned to visit teach a woman who is inactive. she was originally someone that I visit taught many years ago but the visit rolls changed. With my heavy work load, I can't keep up with exvisiting teaching people. This lady was placed on my roll again at her request. I have called and called. She never returns a call. I dropped by at Xmas with a gift and she asked me in and was very friendly. Since then I have called, emailed, no response. So I mail the message, as per a suggestion from my Relief Society President, but I feel that I need to do more. The last time I was her visiting teacher, I dropped in at times and sometimes, she would tell me when to come. I feel bad about dropping in, as she has 2 kids and one on the way, but I feel that she needs more than a card. Any ideas?

[anatess2]

Email/Call with a time you plan to stop by to drop off a little gift.  If she replies, then good, you can talk about a good time, if not, go ahead and stop by.  Don't expect to be invited in... just have some little give-away package to hand off and say, "I just wanted to give this to you...".  If she invites you in good.  If not, then drive off.  If she doesn't open the door, just hang the gift on the doorknob or something.

At least that's what I do.

[Jane_Doe]

It sounds like she's just horrible at returning calls/emails.  Not too surprising for pregnant and two kids.  Have you asked her how's the best way to get a hold of her?

Also, do you happen to have kids around her kids age?  If so, perhaps a play-date?  

If you don't have kids / kids her age, perhaps come over to help her with her motherly duties and ease her burdens?

[Sunday21]

9 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Email/Call with a time you plan to stop by to drop off a little gift.  If she replies, then good, you can talk about a good time, if not, go ahead and stop by.  Don't expect to be invited in... just have some little give-away package to hand off and say, "I just wanted to give this to you...".  If she invites you in good.  If not, then drive off.  If she doesn't open the door, just hang the gift on the doorknob or something.

At least that's what I do.

Thank you. This is very helpful.

[Sunday21]

8 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

It sounds like she's just horrible at returning calls/emails.  Not too surprising for pregnant and two kids.  Have you asked her how's the best way to get a hold of her?

Also, do you happen to have kids around her kids age?  If so, perhaps a play-date?  

If you don't have kids / kids her age, perhaps come over to help her with her motherly duties and ease her burdens?

Good ideas!

[Blackmarch]

11 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

Dear Bros and Sis's,

i am assigned to visit teach a woman who is inactive. she was originally someone that I visit taught many years ago but the visit rolls changed. With my heavy work load, I can't keep up with exvisiting teaching people. This lady was placed on my roll again at her request. I have called and called. She never returns a call. I dropped by at Xmas with a gift and she asked me in and was very friendly. Since then I have called, emailed, no response. So I mail the message, as per a suggestion from my Relief Society President, but I feel that I need to do more. The last time I was her visiting teacher, I dropped in at times and sometimes, she would tell me when to come. I feel bad about dropping in, as she has 2 kids and one on the way, but I feel that she needs more than a card. Any ideas?

hmmm good question... i'd say drop in, bring food. (foods always makes for a good offering lol) For drop ins keep the message short and sweet. The main thing about this duty is making sure the the person's needs are being met.

[NeedleinA]

16 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

woman who is inactive

I have called and called. She never returns a call...emailed, no response.

but I feel that I need to do more.

"I feel that I need to do more". For me personally, this feeling comes from two sources. The first, is the "spirit" prompting me to "do more", OR second, I simply am suffering from "Mormon Guilt"? Mormon Guilt, meaning, the times we beat ourselves up for no reason for not living life at a constant "best" level in every aspect (good, better, best). 

Some people don't want to be visit/home taught, despite our efforts to try to visit them. There are times when VT/HT is helpful, but there are other times when our "helpfulness" is taken as "pushy/unwanted" and inside they are saying "I'm inactive for a reason, leave me alone already, I don't want to be bothered". 

VT/HT has successes, but it also has failures when our persistent nagging can actually hurt instead. If she is not returning multiple calls/emails perhaps it is not important to her. If the lottery called her to tell her she had won big money, would she call them back? If the answer is yes, then she has "time", just not time for VT.

If I were you, I would drop by her house unannounced. I would explain that you would love to be her VT. Say, in softer words, "Because calling and emailing is so hard, can I come by your house on the 2nd Tuesday of each month at 5:00pm (you make up the schedule with her). This is a standing appointment, every month like clockwork. If you can not make the appointment, please call me and reschedule for that month, otherwise I will be standing at your door at 5:00pm like promised."

This removes the constant calling/emailing. This allows you to honestly gauge from her if you are a "help" or a "pest" to her. If she misses a couple of your appointments without letting you know, well you unfortunately have your answer from her. If phone calls/emails/standing appointment fails, I would stop with the Mormon Guilt. I personally would stop contacting her all together except for one last mailed note. A note that said something like: "Sorry we keep missing each other at our appointments. I would love to be of service to you when you are ready. Here is my phone number when that day comes. Have a great day and may Heavenly Father bless you and your family". 

This would be the end of my contact with said inactive. When she is ready, she can let me know. Until said day, or the Spirit prompts me otherwise, no more Mormon Guilt. 

Edited March 30, 2016 by NeedleinA

[theSQUIDSTER]

1 hour ago, NeedleinA said:

"I feel that I need to do more". For me personally, this feeling comes from two sources. The first, is the "spirit" prompting me to "do more", OR second, I simply am suffering from "Mormon Guilt"? Mormon Guilt, meaning, the times we beat ourselves up for no reason for not living life at a constant "best" level in every aspect (good, better, best). 

Some people don't want to be visit/home taught, despite our efforts to try to visit them. There are times when VT/HT is helpful, but there are other times when our "helpfulness" is taken as "pushy/unwanted" and inside they are saying "I'm inactive for a reason, leave me alone already, I don't want to be bothered". 

VT/HT has successes, but it also has failures when our persistent nagging can actually hurt instead. If she is not returning multiple calls/emails perhaps it is not important to her. If the lottery called her to tell her she had won big money, would she call them back? If the answer is yes, then she has "time", just not time for VT.

If I were you, I would drop by her house unannounced. I would explain that you would love to be her VT. Say, in softer words, "Because calling and emailing is so hard, can I come by your house on the 2nd Tuesday of each month at 5:00pm (you make up the schedule with her). This is a standing appointment, every month like clockwork. If you can not make the appointment, please call me and reschedule for that month, otherwise I will be standing at your door at 5:00pm like promised."

This removes the constant calling/emailing. This allows you to honestly gauge from her if you are a "help" or a "pest" to her. If she misses a couple of your appointments without letting you know, well you unfortunately have your answer from her. If phone calls/emails/standing appointment fails, I would stop with the Mormon Guilt. I personally would stop contacting her all together except for one last mailed note. A note that said something like: "Sorry we keep missing each other at our appointments. I would love to be of service to you when you are ready. Here is my phone number when that day comes. Have a great day and may Heavenly Father bless you and your family". 

This would be the end of my contact with said inactive. When she is ready, she can let me know. Until said day, or the Spirit prompts me otherwise, no more Mormon Guilt. 

I'm not sure if being a pest is an issue here.  Didn't the OP say that this woman requested Sunday as her contact?  That's actually a pretty good indicator that there is genuine interest and hopefully it's still there despite the unanswered emails and calls, which may just be due to life being hectic and busy.. Especially where kids are in the mix.

Sunday, unless you're told by her that she no longer wants contact I think you should continue to reach out to her in kindness and   faith as you've been doing.  Perhaps it will become clearer over time, prayer, and pondering what you can do specifically to better serve and encourage her.  I think it would be a mistake to do anything that might feel to her like an ultimatum from you.. i.e. Where she feels like you're trying to give her some kind of message like "either we visit once a month or we don't at all until you call me back and let me know that you're ready to stop avoiding me..."  I'm not saying that you would actually SAY something like that to her... I'm just saying that if she felt like you dropped her then she might feel like that was your intention.

with HT/VT there will be some whom we serve from afar with prayer, fasting, compassion and a desire to love them as much as they'll let us.  

[NeedleinA]

1 hour ago, theSQUIDSTER said:

I'm not sure if being a pest is an issue here.  Didn't the OP say that this woman requested Sunday as her contact?  That's actually a pretty good indicator that there is genuine

Yes, the OP did say the woman requested Sunday as her contact. Requesting a specific person is not an indicator that they have genuine interest. It could be as simple as her saying, "If the RS is going to pester me, I prefer it be Sunday21 that does the pestering". If a person were to appear out of nowhere and request visiting teachers, and she didn't have them previously, that might be a sign of genuine interest. Simply requesting a switch in visiting teachers happens all the time. Perhaps the person didn't like their previous VT and in an effort to accept any visiting teaching, she conceded to Sunday21's efforts instead. Honestly we don't know the specifics of the request, but as one who formulates HT (my wife RS VT) routes, lets just say...um... requests happen all the time and there are plenty of non-genuine selfish reasons for it. 

The idea of setting up a scheduled appointment is not a novel idea, in fact it is fairly common in the wards I've been in and I'm surprised no else suggested it. It is not a final ultimatum, but at some point Sunday21 has a life too, "With my heavy work load, I can't keep up with visiting teaching people." If contact after contact is repeatedly ignored and ignored... well I for one would take that as an answer. Even missionaries, the greatest of sabotage visitors, get the idea after a while and move on to interested parties. If Sunday21 is ignored and ignored and the RS Pres. realizes it, then perhaps:

1. The other sister can be put on a letter route.
2. Sunday21 can be reassigned to someone who actually wants contact and visits. 

This isn't meant to sound harsh, it is simply meant to sound realistic. It sounds like Sunday has been trying for over 4 months without success or even a courtesy acknowledgement by the other Sister. If Sunday21 follows the suggestion I offered, it could be 2-3 more months of still no answers/missed appointments. Despite the idea of rescuing the one lost sheep, we still live in a world of limited human/time/energy resources.

Who knows, maybe during the next 2-3 months of appointments, it all works out, that would be nice!

Edited March 30, 2016 by NeedleinA

[NeedleinA]

1 hour ago, theSQUIDSTER said:

with HT/VT there will be some whom we serve from afar with prayer, fasting, compassion and a desire to love them as much as they'll let us.  

Bingo. All of this could be done without further calls,emails & visits. If the other sister won't "let" more happen, then Sunday should not be beating herself up over it. 

[Sunday21]

Thank you. So much all of you. I will pray about your advice. Thanks again.

[theSQUIDSTER]

Needle,

I've pondered over this a lot today.  I can't seem to let go of it.  I love your idea of scheduling a regular recurring time for HT/VT visits.  I've seen instances where this kind of arrangement can be very successful.  I'm sorry if I left you with any impression that I might be shooting down your ideas expressed to Sunday.  I started, intending to address mostly your post but then got thinking about Sunday's OP.  Since I don't know the specifics and since it's not my stewardship, I can't really presume to know finally what Sunday needs to do.  You've also said as much.  Not our job ultimately, but the Spirit's to do the whispering to her.  (Sunday, I have confidence in you that you'll do whatever the Spirit prompts you to do.  May the Lord bless you in your sincere efforts.  )

I guess there are a couple things that keep lingering in my mind about this topic.  First, "Mormon Guilt."  I believe I understand at least in part of what is meant by this... but I also worry that it could be easily misunderstood.  I guess some of my questions would be, if I'm feeling guilty about something, is it the Spirit showing me my inadequacies or is it me listening to the adversary that I'm not good enough and should beat myself up and make myself miserable over this...?  I guess my general thoughts regarding these are that one doesn't preclude the other... both can and do usually happen.. if not simultaneously, at least in very close "proximity" to each other.  If the Spirit were trying to gently "prick" our conscience, why wouldn't Satan then also try to weasel in and influence us to misunderstand, ignore, and/or blame ourselves instead of turning again to our Father in humility and asking for forgiveness and for the strength to continue and learn from our weakness..?  I guess the biggest thing that matters is what we choose to ponder and dwell upon.  If we continue in our thoughts of "I'm not good enough" to the exclusion of other things, we will most probably conclude that it's all just too much, too difficult, too painful, etc. and that we can't continue because it's too hard to keep going.  I see Satan as trying to take something that's true but twist it to his own ends and make us fixate on one aspect instead of seeing the whole picture.... Of course we're not good enough, only One ever was and, thankfully, He has overcome Satan and the world.  If we move as quickly as we can through the personal inadequacies phase and focus on the Savior and put our energy into what He would have us do and become, then that first bit of "guilt" is good and for our benefit... otherwise it's more and more debilitating the longer we linger there.  We acknowledge our own nothingness but quickly move on from there... or, if we feel stuck there we plead with the Lord for His mercy and then try to proceed in faith and to the best of our knowledge and abilities, hoping and trusting that He'll inspire, strengthen and guide us along the way and prick us again if we begin to loose our focus or start moving away from where we need to be.

The other thing I've been pondering is the awesome power of kindness and love.  There is an immense power to do good in HT/VT.  I've seen that so often in my life and people's lives around me that it's undeniable for me.  Ideally, it seems like it would be much better if we completely and spontaneously visited, loved and watched-out for each other without ever having to be assigned and called to do so.  Of course that would be better... but then if we were all or even mostly at that place wouldn't we have been taken up like the city of Enoch?  That obviously hasn't happened so we still have some growing to do to become more like that.  Sometimes there are criticisms leveled against HT/VT and church callings pointing this out as a failing and even as a reason why the church can't be true because these sorts of things just lead to us being discouraged all the time that we never do enough.  ..or, individually, that our sincerity should be questioned because we received a call to serve rather than just spontaneously chose to serve.  Again, most of us are still not there yet, which is why we need the programs to help us grow and become more like we should be.  How much HT/VT is enough?  An occasional email or a card?  Once a month visits?  More than once a month visits/contact?  There is no fast and one-size-fits-all answer to these and other related questions.  But there is a KEY to all service and principles of the gospel and it's charity ... love.  

I've watched two great examples of this in my life:  my mother and my wife.  In the case of my mother, I've watched as my brother has shut her and the rest of the family out of his life.  My mother has never given up hope for my brother.  She continues to call his cell number and leave upbeat messages.  He never answers her, and worse when he occasionally does and then realizes it's her calling, he quickly hangs up.   But, interestingly, he's NEVER changed his cell phone number in over 20 years!  He could have easily done that just as easily as most of us other family members have kind-of written him off, or said, "When he comes to himself and wants contact with us it will happen or he'll reach out..."  But my mom just keeps calling even though he continues to ignore and break her heart a little bit more and more as time passes.  In the case of my wife, she still talks to one SMI (seriously mentally ill) man who I home-taught a number of years ago but who I find it difficult to continue with now that he's moved away because he's such a black hole of need and paranoia and I just don't have the energy or sufficient encouragement for him that I think I should have.  I do talk to him occasionally.  I'll pick up the phone and chat with him... but more often than not it's my wife who chooses to do so much more than I do!  She wasn't even in any calling that put her in a stewardship relating to him... yet she's the one who's consistently demonstrated to him AND to me how much she cares about this tortured and troubled brother.  This is the true power of what we do.  This is where the true power lies in touching one another's lives.  I think when we contact and continue to reach out to somebody who we're called to HT/VT and then feel THIS love coming from us, then we're effective home and visiting teachers and true brothers and sisters to one another...  otherwise we're still working on becoming that.... I am still trying to become that... so I look to these two great women in my life as examples of what I need to be and am striving to be more like.

 

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

On March 30, 2016 at 2:25 PM, NeedleinA said:

Yes, the OP did say the woman requested Sunday as her contact. Requesting a specific person is not an indicator that they have genuine interest. It could be as simple as her saying, "If the RS is going to pester me, I prefer it be Sunday21 that does the pestering". 

I agree.  I'm active, but I'm pretty particular about who my visiting/home teachers are.  Fortunately, my ward has been very patient with me about that.  The point is though that even though I request a specific person, it doesn't mean I WANT to be visited.  It just means that I'm more likely to let this person visit than anyone else.  

[NeedleinA]

6 hours ago, theSQUIDSTER said:

I've pondered over this a lot today.  I can't seem to let go of it.

Not our job ultimately, but the Spirit's to do the whispering to her. Correct my friend, I agree.

"Mormon Guilt."  I believe I understand at least in part of what is meant by this... but I also worry that it could be easily misunderstood.  

The other thing I've been pondering is the awesome power of kindness and love. But there is a KEY to all service and principles of the gospel and it's charity ... love.  I agree again

I've watched two great examples of this in my life:  my mother and my wife. Great examples, thanks for sharing them

Squidster - 
I hope I didn't ruin anyone's day by my posts yesterday, give off the wrong impression, or lead anyone to think I'm opposed VT/HT. I'm not opposed to VT/HT at all and think it is a wonderful way to bless the lives of all involved. Perhaps a little clarification on two minor points:

1. I don't believe the Sister that Sunday is assigned to should be dropped from being contacted again by the RS. If all else fails, "The other sister can be put on a letter route." The Sister still receives contact (upbeat message) from the RS/Ward, and when she is ready to engage, perhaps she will reach out - similar to your Mother and your brother. The only difference is it is a letter vs. a phone message.

2. Mormon Guilt - This is actually a term from one of our High Priests, a Police Detective and 30 year convert to the church. He loves the church and everything about it, but one thing that drives him nuts is what he calls, us having needless "Mormon Guilt" all the time. Beating ourselves up when we don't have OR live our lives at a perfect level all the time. With Visiting Teaching, how does one gauge (good, better, best)? I would submit there is no limit to what is "best". No matter what one does they could have always done an even better version of that. At what point do you stop beating yourself up on doing a better version of your last best version? 

If someone is not attempting VT/HT at all that is different, I would expect the Spirit to add a little guilt and help nudge the Teacher along.
If someone is making continual sincere efforts to make contact, though unsuccessful, and "if" they are feeling like a "bad" VT, perhaps we are more in the Mormon Guilt arena at this point. 

This is simply my observation. Like others have said before, you get what you paid for with my free advice.