Do we all hear/feel the Spirit the same?

[Guest]

This came up in another thread that I didn't want to further hijack. Do you believe the Spirit speaks to us all in exactly the same way? Do you believe we all feel the Spirit identically?

[LeSellers]

10 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

This came up in another thread that I didn't want to further hijack. Do you believe the Spirit speaks to us all in exactly the same way? Do you believe we all feel the Spirit identically?

Since prophets feel the Spirit in different ways, even the same prophet on the same subject, it would be odd if we all had a single experience with Him.

Lehi

[zil]

I personally have felt the Spirit in at least 4 distinct ways.  Each appropriate for the situation and where I was at the time I was seeking guidance / understanding.

Edited March 31, 2016 by zil

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I think there may often be similarities, but also individual ways the Spirit speaks to us.  For example, we might each hear at some point the still small voice that sounds like our own conscience, but what that voice says can be very individualized.

Some may hear at actual voice for certain instances, and perhaps others never do.  Once when I was in a dangerous situation, the Spirit yelled at me.  It said, "LP move!" In a very forceful voice that I could not ignore.  Another member (online) argued with me about that once because she was certain that the Holy Ghost only uses a "still, small voice."  I know what I heard.  

I believe that the Holy Ghost can and does occasionally speak to people through dreams, that has not happened to me, but it has happened to my husband.  (Nothing about the future...I know what some of you are thinking, LOL.  It's not that.)

[Sunday21]

I have been spoken to very strongly. I wanted permission to work on the sabbath-because of course I am so important and such a special snowflake. I got a very firm reply- and told to grow up!

[Anddenex]

As to my current understanding, knowledge, scriptures appear to highlight two main ways the spirit will speak to us:

1) D&C 8: 2-3, pure intelligence that enters the heart and mind, the spirit of revelation which leads to a more sure word of prophecy (Elijah, the spirit was in a still small voice).

2) D&C 8-9, our heart will experience confirmation

The scriptures also highlight the importance of "edification" or where all are edified and rejoice. How we experience the emotion of being edified, I believe we would all describe it differently due to our ability to express our feelings (connotation vs. denotation). 

I have experienced pure intelligence flowing into my heart and mind. I have experienced being edified. I have experienced the Lord's chastening through pure intelligence entering my mind and heart as Sunday21 described, and I have felt soft and compassionate pure intelligence enter my heart and mind. This description as given by Joseph Smith describes my experiences, "The Prophet Joseph Smith taught that “a person may profit by noticing the first intimation of the spirit of revelation; for instance, when you feel pure intelligence flowing into you, it may give you sudden strokes of ideas, so that by noticing it, you may find it fulfilled the same day or soon; (i.e.) those things that were presented unto your minds by the Spirit of God, will come to pass; and thus by learning the Spirit of God and understanding it, you may grow into the principle of revelation, until you become perfect in Christ Jesus” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, sel. Joseph Fielding Smith [1976], 151)."

I have wondered if we often convolute the spirit of revelation such that it appears too abstract, and yet, a child of 8 years old should be able to immediately begin experiencing the spirit of revelation, listen and follow. 

[Jojo Bags]

Almost always, I have feelings and impression.  However I have had the Spirit speak words into my mind once or twice.  In 1989, my partner and I were dispatched on a 911 call for a shooting at a local bar.  While en route, we were told the name of the suspect; a man whom I had arrested six months earlier for aggravated assault.  He was drunk at the time and put up a fight.  During the transport to jail, he threatened to kill me and my wife, and dog, and cat, and cow, and pig, and horse, along with all the possible barnyard animals in existence.  I usually ignored this, but filed it away.  Once I heard the suspects name, all his threats came back to mind.

On arrival at the scene, there was a man face down, with one arm under him and copious amounts of blood pooled around his body.  It was obvious he was dead from the amount of blood and his pale skin.  I later found out he'd been shot in the heart with a .41 magnum, which explained the tremendous amount of blood.  One person quickly pointed the way the suspect ran and said he was still armed.  We tracked him to a small apartment complex and cornered him.  I was on a very small department, with only three officers on duty, so we had to handle everything ourselves. 

I could clearly see the suspect from my vantage point behind a landscaping berm about 20 yards away; he had a large frame revolver in his hand.  He obviously thought he was concealed and was screaming that he wasn't going to be taken alive.  There were dozens of people milling around and the situation was quickly going south for the winter.  The suspect was confused and rapidly becoming irrational.  We began seriously fearing for the safety of the bystanders.  I finally made up my mind that I was going to be forced into shooting him and began squeezing the trigger on my revolver.  I had no doubt I could hit him and take him out.

As I was squeezing the trigger, with the hammer drawing back, I distinctly heard the words, "Stop.  Don't shoot."  I very carefully eased off the trigger and at that exact moment, two kids walked around directly in front of the suspect into my line of fire.  If I had not listened, I would have shot one of those kids.

 

[Guest]

Another thing to consider:

The Lord uses more than one tool to communicate with us.  It may not be the "Spirit" per se that we are feeling sometimes.  Angels are also sent to minister to us

"to teach you, to protect you, to guide you."  --Gordon B. Hinckley.

I can say from personal experience that it is a very different feeling.  It seems like it should all be the same Spirit.  Which I'm sure it is.  But the feeling was very different than any other I've felt.

[Bad Karma]

Nah, I'm kind of hard of hearing in so many ways, so, the spirit has to often raise his voice to me, speak slowly and use small words. But that's just me. When he really has to ram a point home, he breaks out the crayons. I like that about him. 

[Guest]

 

11 minutes ago, Bad Karma said:

Nah, I'm kind of hard of hearing in so many ways, so, the spirit has to often raise his voice to me, speak slowly and use small words. But that's just me. When he really has to ram a point home, he breaks out the crayons. I like that about him. 

Recently at a Stake Conference:

Our relief society president talked about when she and her husband were younger, they were the topic of many ward council meetings because of their on-again / off-again activity in the church.  She had been discussing it with her husband and wanted to start making it a goal to have their temple recommends again and go to the temple.  He agreed.  But his motivation was low. The efforts were minimal and slow going.  Then...

One day he was driving and something odd happened at the traffic light (I didn't catch that part of her story).  He ended up doing a doughnut and eventually flipped over the car until he slid to a stop with him (fastened by his seat belt upside down in the car).  As soon as the car stopped moving, for the first time in his life he heard the Spirit audibly saying to him,"Go to the temple".

[Bad Karma]

9 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

 

Recently at a Stake Conference:

Our relief society president talked about when she and her husband were younger, they were the topic of many ward council meetings because of their on-again / off-again activity in the church.  She had been discussing it with her husband and wanted to start making it a goal to have their temple recommends again and go to the temple.  He agreed.  But his motivation was low. The efforts were minimal and slow going.  Then...

One day he was driving and something odd happened at the traffic light (I didn't catch that part of her story).  He ended up doing a doughnut and eventually flipped over the car until he slid to a stop with him (fastened by his seat belt upside down in the car).  As soon as the car stopped moving, for the first time in his life he heard the Spirit audibly saying to him,"Go to the temple".

Yeah *Guilty look* I've been getting that shouting to go renew my recommend and take my wife back to the temple, I don't really have an excuse not to go either. Funny, I was just looking at my temple case of "the stuff" just the other day, I think the spirit has been being blatantly obvious, next comes the crayons, I'm sure of it! 

[NightSG]

16 hours ago, Eowyn said:

This came up in another thread that I didn't want to further hijack. Do you believe the Spirit speaks to us all in exactly the same way? Do you believe we all feel the Spirit identically?

Not at all.  I've heard a pretty wide variety myself on different occasions, from a clear voice speaking in unison with a missionary giving a friend's blessing to long gone voices from my past.  Even occasionally a literal nudge in the direction I needed to go.

[Blackmarch]

17 hours ago, Eowyn said:

This came up in another thread that I didn't want to further hijack. Do you believe the Spirit speaks to us all in exactly the same way? Do you believe we all feel the Spirit identically?

No. I know people who've had answers about the BoM by voice, others by vision.

My gut feeling is if that if God is going to talk to you he will do so in a way that you trust and probably in what you are most prepared for (including following through).

Edited April 1, 2016 by Blackmarch

[Sadliers]

The question was how the Spirit feels. Feeling the Spirit is one thing, being inspired and receiving revelation is another. There is only one feeling associated with the presence of the Spirit just like there is only one smell for the original Old Spice deodorant. Paul said:

 

"22    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 

23    Meekness, temperance:" (Galatians 5:22-23)

 

Notice that Paul used the word "fruit", not "fruits". That means that the one feeling associated with the Spirit consists of all of those attributes, not just one and not just some. If it is one then it is not the presence of the Spirit. If it is some or most then it is not the presence of the Spirit. ALL of those will be felt if it is the Spirit that is being felt.

 

That's also where apostates greatly err. They suppose that the feeling of enlightenment is the Spirit. Nope. They think that some of the attributes of the fruit is the Spirit. Nope. They think if they studied it, cross referenced it, and made logical sense of it then it must be truth and from the Spirit. Nope and nope.

 

Again, the question was regarding how the Spirit feels, not how the Spirit communicates. How the Spirit communicates is a different chapter. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Sadliers said:

"22    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 

23    Meekness, temperance:" (Galatians 5:22-23)

I count 9 things.

Why don't we say, "Fruits salad"?

Edited April 2, 2016 by Eowyn

[Sadliers]

4 hours ago, Eowyn said:

I count 9 things.

Why don't we say, "Fruits salad"?

Let's say you don't know what an apple or any other fruit is. You have never seen one in your life. I ask you to go out into an orchard and pick me an apple. I tell you that the apple is red, crispy, has seeds in the center, is sweet, and grows on a tree. You go out, pick what seems to match the description, and bring it back. It is red, sweet, grew on a tree, and has a seed in the middle... but it's a red plum. The "crispy" was overlooked and the "seeds" was misconstrued as "seed". They are both fruits but not the same. The exactness of the description was necessary to get the right fruit.

 

The "fruit" of the Spirit is a unique feeling that encompasses all 9 of those attributes just as the apple (also a fruit) was given 5 distinguishing attributes. Just like if the apple being sought was missing one of the attributes then it was the wrong fruit and wrong tree, so also it is with the Spirit.

 

Notice how assuming that Paul meant to say "fruits" will create confusion as to how the Spirit feels. If Paul meant "fruits" then when a person feels love then it is the Spirit. When a person feels joy then it is the Spirit. If I am emotionally moved by a song then it is the Spirit. The problem is that it is not the Spirit based on one single attribute. If I feel love and joy but no patience then it is guaranteed to not be the Spirit that is being felt yet a misreading of that verse may cause me to think otherwise since I feel two of the attributes. Every single attribute will be present when it is the Spirit and if any attribute is missing then it is not the Spirit but rather a normal human emotion.

Edited April 2, 2016 by Sadliers

[Guest]

That was convoluted. 

[Sadliers]

11 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

That was convoluted. 

" And I said unto them: Have ye inquired of the Lord?" (1 Nephi 15:8)

[Guest]

Good grief. 

[Sadliers]

Look at the bright side: You have a very awesome experience waiting for you once you discover the Spirit! In it you will find the treasures including experiencing the "unspeakable joy". If you think you've had it good up to this point then just wait and see what happens!!!

[Guest]

The question in this thread was intended to find out if this belief that the Spirit is so limited is a common one. You immediately assume that I have been without the Spirit, and that I don't know how to recognize him. You couldn't be more wrong. 

I have had the Spirit enlighten me when I hear/read truth, warn me when I'm headed for danger, chasten me when I need to change direction, comfort me in my deepest grief, guide me when I didn't know what to do next. That has been through feelings, through words that came to my mind, through music. The feelings are those of enlightenment and peace when it's called for, and foreboding when that is needed. Not the same every time. That's silly. 

You assume that you have the market cornered on communication from the Spirit. That your understanding is superior and those who don't agree with your assessment haven't discovered Him. That's the aforementioned arrogance that we're seeing.

1 hour ago, Sadliers said:

If you think you've had it good up to this point then just wait and see what happens!!!

You wouldn't happen to be a woman who lives north of Seattle?

Edited April 2, 2016 by Eowyn

[Blackmarch]

7 hours ago, Sadliers said:

The question was how the Spirit feels. Feeling the Spirit is one thing, being inspired and receiving revelation is another. There is only one feeling associated with the presence of the Spirit just like there is only one smell for the original Old Spice deodorant. Paul said:

 

"22    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 

23    Meekness, temperance:" (Galatians 5:22-23)

 

Notice that Paul used the word "fruit", not "fruits". That means that the one feeling associated with the Spirit consists of all of those attributes, not just one and not just some. If it is one then it is not the presence of the Spirit. If it is some or most then it is not the presence of the Spirit. ALL of those will be felt if it is the Spirit that is being felt.

 

That's also where apostates greatly err. They suppose that the feeling of enlightenment is the Spirit. Nope. They think that some of the attributes of the fruit is the Spirit. Nope. They think if they studied it, cross referenced it, and made logical sense of it then it must be truth and from the Spirit. Nope and nope.

 

Again, the question was regarding how the Spirit feels, not how the Spirit communicates. How the Spirit communicates is a different chapter. 

I consider any

 

7 hours ago, Sadliers said:

The question was how the Spirit feels. Feeling the Spirit is one thing, being inspired and receiving revelation is another. There is only one feeling associated with the presence of the Spirit just like there is only one smell for the original Old Spice deodorant. Paul said:

 

"22    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 

23    Meekness, temperance:" (Galatians 5:22-23)

 

Notice that Paul used the word "fruit", not "fruits". That means that the one feeling associated with the Spirit consists of all of those attributes, not just one and not just some. If it is one then it is not the presence of the Spirit. If it is some or most then it is not the presence of the Spirit. ALL of those will be felt if it is the Spirit that is being felt.

 

That's also where apostates greatly err. They suppose that the feeling of enlightenment is the Spirit. Nope. They think that some of the attributes of the fruit is the Spirit. Nope. They think if they studied it, cross referenced it, and made logical sense of it then it must be truth and from the Spirit. Nope and nope.

 

Again, the question was regarding how the Spirit feels, not how the Spirit communicates. How the Spirit communicates is a different chapter. 

....? The question of feelings was only one partbof a bigger question (previous sentence, of which i was responding to). If you are gaining something that brings you closer to god, then you are recieving revelation.if you have and recognise the presence of the spirit then you are in the presence of revelation. Feelings are but one aspect, and even then there is a plentitude of different feelings that can be given by the spirit. Some of which there are not words adequate to describe them. I personally do not see how the two can be seperated.

[Sadliers]

9 hours ago, Eowyn said:

I have had the Spirit enlighten me when I hear/read truth, warn me when I'm headed for danger, chasten me when I need to change direction, comfort me in my deepest grief, guide me when I didn't know what to do next. That has been through feelings, through words that came to my mind, through music. The feelings are those of enlightenment and peace when it's called for, and foreboding when that is needed. Not the same every time. That's silly. 

[...]

You wouldn't happen to be a woman who lives north of Seattle?

How do you know it is the Spirit when feeling enlightened? A person very often feels enlightened without the Spirit - it happens all the time. Good motivational speakers earn big $$$ by enlightening and inspiring others without regard to the Spirit. It also happens in school classrooms all the time when the Spirit is absent. What makes you sure it is the Spirit that is doing the enlightening?

 

Feelings through music are more often not of the Spirit but rather normal emotions stirred up through the music - that's part of being human. And the same with movies and plays. How do you know it's the Spirit rather than otherwise? 

 

How how do you know the peace was from the Spirit? Even Jesus pointed out that there's two types of peace so how is it known which peace is being experienced?

 

"Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you." (John 14:27)

 

Notice that one of the attributes of the fruit of the Spirit is "longsuffering". The opposite is impatience. Your responses seem to fit "impatience" better than "longsuffering". That's one missing attribute. 

Another attribute of the Spirit is "temperance". The opposite is "easily offended". Your responses appear more in line with "easily offended" rather than "temperance". That's another missing attribute.

Another attribute of the Spirit is "peace". The opposite of peace is "contentious". Your responses have been more of contention than peace ("good grief", "that was convoluted"). That's another missing attribute.

Is there any question why you would challenge me when I said that ALL the attributes in Galatians 5:22-23 must be present? It is readily observed that they are not ALL present in your responses. If they aren't present in your responses then what does that indicate regarding being with you personally? We don't get the Spirit by trying to change truth to suit our wishes but rather by accepting truth as it is and striving to conform to it. Why not just do an experiment and seek for that spirit in which ALL of the attributes are present so that you can determine for yourself? Why contend against what I shared rather than simply proving it THEN expressing to the contrary?

 

I'm not a woman and I've never been to Washington, let alone live there.

Edited April 2, 2016 by Sadliers

[Sadliers]

8 hours ago, Blackmarch said:

 The question of feelings was only one part of a bigger question (previous sentence, of which i was responding to). If you are gaining something that brings you closer to god, then you are recieving revelation. If you have and recognize the presence of the spirit then you are in the presence of revelation. Feelings are but one aspect, and even then there is a plentitude of different feelings that can be given by the spirit. Some of which there are not words adequate to describe them. I personally do not see how the two can be seperated.

How does one know if they are getting closer to God unless they know God? Take Mr. ******* as an example: he thought he was getting closer to God because he was feeling enlightened in his studies and he even felt something to go along with it. He then inspired other members in his learning and beliefs. He ended up being excommunicated yet still believes he is getting closer to God. Do you want "unbaptized"? He believes it is necessary for exaltation, and then one must be rebaptized by him. Did his revelations and enlightenment truly bring him closer to God? If so then does one get closer to God through excommunication?

 

Joseph Smith stated that there are three sources for revelation: God, ourself, and Satan. How can one differentiate between the three? All will feel enlightening. All may contain a voice. All may even be right. Since all can appear to be from God how will one differentiate?

Recognizing the Spirit is at the heart of the issue. Some believe that if they feel enlightened then it is the Spirit, such as with Mr. ******* and other apostates. I have a brother that was ready to believe the flat-earth theory because he felt enlightened by good arguments. If one can go as far to actually believe the flat-earth theory (and there's many that do) and it came from feeling enlightened then what does that tell us regarding the sources for the feeling of enlightenment?

 

Please detail the different feelings that you have found to be associated with the Spirit.

Edited April 2, 2016 by Sadliers

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, Sadliers said:

How do you know

I know because for everything I wrote, I was thinking of a specific example of an answer to prayer or instance of guidance that I needed for myself or my family at the time. 

Can you really not see why someone would take umbrage when you are saying, "You don't know what the Spirit is. I know the Spirit, but you do not. You might think you do, but even though you've received the same gift of the Holy Ghost as any confirmed member, you don't really know. But the good news is, when you are as superior and enlightened as I am, it will be AWESOME!"

It's not offense as much as being taken aback by the kind of pride and arrogance that fosters that attitude. But you are right, I shouldn't care what some random guy on the Internet, who knows absolutely nothing about me or my experiences, thinks about my ability to access and understand the gift of the Holy Ghost. I suppose being treated with such a condescending attitude is a sore spot for me, since it reminds me very much of a poisonous person (who lives in Washington and is a woman) who, it seems, shares some of your attitudes about things. 

At any rate, the experiences I'm thinking of, and know to be sacred times in my life where the Spirit's help was clear and significant, are not something I'm going to throw out like pearls to be trampled on by anyone. I do feel comfortable sharing one example, and then I'm done:

There was a time when I was doing something very important, and I began to be very fearful about how things would work out. I found a quiet place and prayed, and a hymn that held the answer came immediately to mind. I recognized that as the same comfort, enlightenment, and guidance that I had gotten before through the Holy Ghost. I'm grateful for that, and years later the fruits of that experience (and what came of the situation) are a daily blessing in my life. 

I would like to ask, what is your purpose in questioning someone else's testimony and experiences?

Edited April 2, 2016 by Eowyn