Democratic Socialist Mormon Friends & Support

[Guest MormonGator]

9 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

 

This is a discussion board, not a pollyanna puffer site. We talk about things, not just parade around looking for attaboys.

Lehi

LeSellers and I disagree about plenty, but I've never once said he doesn't have the right to debate. 

But we don't have the right to say anything here without ramifications. Others can jump in on either side, or the mods/admins can ban/warn us from talking about anything they wish too

[Guest MormonGator]

On a public forum, you have to accept that people won't agree with you-and that's a good thing. If you can only hear your own side and don't read or encounter other views-that's disturbing. 

If you can't accept that, you have no business discussing even the most banal of political issues. 

Edited April 11, 2016 by MormonGator

[Vort]

24 minutes ago, Tuckabee said:

Please don't reply on this thread anymore.  I am looking for people who agree with me.  I am not interested in arguing about politics.  If you want to debate create your own thread.  Good bye.  

This is sad. You need to learn the meaning of the term "discussion board".

Why are millennial leftists so often like this, anyway?

[Guest MormonGator]

20 minutes ago, Vort said:

This is sad. You need to learn the meaning of the term "discussion board".

Why are millennial leftists so often like this, anyway?

Most aren't. The ones that demand "safe spaces" or other things like that are the minority. 

I'm at the tail end of Gen X-so I'm not a millennial, for the record. Like Lisa Simpson said, "We feel neither highs nor lows. " "What's the like? "Eh"

Edited April 11, 2016 by MormonGator

[Guest Godless]

Tuckabee,

You initially stated that you wanted to find fellow liberals who share your faith. That's a very reasonable objective, and one that I completely understand, both as a liberal who used to be LDS, and also as a liberal atheist living deep in the heart of Texas. I do a happy dance on the inside every time I meet a fellow atheist down here.

HOWEVER, your subsequent posts in this discussion have outlined very specific political views that you hold, and frankly that's fair game in an online forum such as this one. If you want to find like-minded individuals, that's fine. But don't get upset when you air out your specific political views and someone decides to disagree with you.

 

Sincerely,

(probably) the most liberal person on this website

[LeSellers]

35 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Most aren't. The ones that demand "safe spaces" or other things like that are the minority.

A minority, most certainly, but a very loud minority. Loud and shrill.

Lehi

Edited April 11, 2016 by LeSellers

[Guest Godless]

33 minutes ago, Vort said:

 

Why are millennial leftists so often like this, anyway?

To be fair, he stated in this initial post that he's 41 years old. 

[Guest MormonGator]

8 minutes ago, Godless said:

To be fair, he stated in this initial post that he's 41 years old. 

Yup. I'm several years younger than that and I'm no millennial. 

[LeSellers]

5 hours ago, Tuckabee said:

Not interested in arguing - but if you have ideas about how America can get better I'll entertain those.  

As soon as we propose specific ideas "about how America can get better", far from entertaining them, you tell us to go away.

Lehi

[Guest Godless]

8 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Yup. I'm several years younger than that and I'm no millennial. 

Same here, maybe. Many people would probably lump me in with millennials, but I feel like I don't have much in common with the 20-28 crowd. And I'm only 30. It's weird.

[Guest MormonGator]

8 minutes ago, Godless said:

Same here, maybe. Many people would probably lump me in with millennials, but I feel like I don't have much in common with the 20-28 crowd. And I'm only 30. It's weird.

I'm a very old millennial or a very young Generation Xer. One of the many reasons I prefer to be thought of as an individual, I guess. 

Than again, it beats being thought of by my astrological sign! 

[Backroads]

1 hour ago, Tuckabee said:

If people would have read my initial post and only replied if they agreed with me in the first place I would be preaching at all.  You don't have to come to this thread.  I'm looking for people who SHARE my opinions.  I don't want to argue.  If that's your objective please don't reply on this thread anymore - create your own.  

Welcome to the internet. People chime in on things... and it's actually bad internet etiquette to say people can't speak on threads unless the house rules of the forum in question have policies in place.

What gets me is not your views, but when I said all Saints should be able to get along regardless of political belief, you became upset with me.

[LeSellers]

12 hours ago, MormonGator said:

it beats being thought of by my astrological sign! 

There's a Crocodylia sign in astrology?
Lehi

[anatess2]

Ahh geez.

The demand for tolerance from the intolerant.  I claim, in the name of tolerance, the right NOT to tolerate the intolerant.

In other words, this thread is not yours and not your safe space.  Even if you started it.  You'll need to bribe Pam or PrisonChaplain with lots of gumdrops to get your very own forum on here. 

[Vort]

10 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

The demand for tolerance from the intolerant.  I claim, in the name of tolerance, the right NOT to tolerate the intolerant.

This paragon of tolerance, on his way out the door, sent me a nastygram telling me how badly I had hurt his feelings. Poor guy. Ah, well, can't really blame him. He's only 41.

[anatess2]

11 minutes ago, Vort said:

This paragon of tolerance, on his way out the door, sent me a nastygram telling me how badly I had hurt his feelings. Poor guy. Ah, well, can't really blame him. He's only 41.

WHAT?  Because you like free stuff?  I thought he'd like that about you. 

[Guest MormonGator]

1 hour ago, Vort said:

This paragon of tolerance, on his way out the door, sent me a nastygram telling me how badly I had hurt his feelings. Poor guy. Ah, well, can't really blame him. He's only 41.

 I'm sorry you had to deal with that, Vort. Totally uncalled for. Like every other non-leftist who dares to spar with them, I've gotten serious hate mail too. It's sad. I agree, at 41 years old you need to start separating "feelings" from "thought process" 

Edited April 11, 2016 by MormonGator

[unixknight]

[yjacket]

I mean no offense to Guest, but there is a serious lack of education.

I get really frustrated when people say things like america's healthcare is getting worse, etc. Have you ever lived in another country and needed serious medical attention? My goodness, look at the massive amount of research and development going on to solve medical problems (with the lion's share of the cost being private investment)

People complain and complain about medical care but the fact remains most people are fairly healthy and don't require going to the doctor every month. But when the chips are down and you need someone to save your life or someone in your family's life, there is absolutely no where else in the world that I'd rather be than right here in the USA. From, the medicines, to the doctor's, to the facilities, no place can beat the entire package.  Having been in the situation where someone's life was on the line-the medical care in the US is phenomenal.

The vast majority of social democrats issues come down to simple economics; economics rule the world and in general social democrats are economic illiterates.  For a primer start here.

https://mises.org/library/economics-one-lesson 

 

[LeSellers]

One wonders what "Democratic Socialists" do with the Ten Commandments.

Thou shalt not covet … anything that is thy neighbor's.

Thou shalt not steal.

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

Thou shalt have no other gods before [Him].

All aspects of socialism break these commandments. To "give" to one, the government must steal from another. To make people believe this is right, they must lie about their neighbors. Those who want what they do not legitimately have, covet the things that are their neighbors'.

They say they are motivated by compassion, but their ends do not justify their means, and even their ends are not worthy.

Socialism is, itself, a lie. It pretends to hold up a high moral standard, but makes thieves of all who participate, and turns men's hearts against the poor.

Lehi

Edited April 11, 2016 by LeSellers

[zil]

1 hour ago, LeSellers said:

Socialism is, itself, a lie. It pretends to hold up a high moral standard, but makes thieves of all who participate, and turns men's hearts against the poor.

It turns their hearts against the wealthy, too.  And the highly motivated, and the ambitious, and the self-reliant, and.....

[anatess2]

18 hours ago, LeSellers said:

One wonders what "Democratic Socialists" do with the Ten Commandments.

Thou shalt not covet … anything that is thy neighbor's.

Thou shalt not steal.

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

Thou shalt have no other gods before [Him].

All aspects of socialism break these commandments. To "give" to one, the government must steal from another. To make people believe this is right, they must lie about their neighbors. Those who want what they do not legitimately have, covet the things that are their neighbors'.

They say they are motivated by compassion, but their ends do not justify their means, and even their ends are not worthy.

Socialism is, itself, a lie. It pretends to hold up a high moral standard, but makes thieves of all who participate, and turns men's hearts against the poor.

Lehi

I don't like Socialism as a government structure but this is going too far in its accusations.

These statements posit that the Democratic system of VOTES make the system a thief for taxing the minority if the majority decides to tax people while the minority demurs.

Your problem then is not the Socialist part of that system but the Democratic part.

[unixknight]

I've lost count of how many times I've seen Jesus Christ held up as an example of a Socialist thinker, just because He multiplied the fish and bread to feed the crowd.  (Tell you a secret, unless Jesus Himself is around, that solution's not gonna work so well the rest of the time.)  This boggles my mind.  The Savior didn't really spend much time, that we know of, talking about economic systems, but I do know that the things He did teach don't seem to fit so well with Socialist thought.  In addition to the Commandments as @LeSellers mentioned, He also talks about wisely investing resources (The parable of the 3 servants and the talents), He was a carpenter who I'm pretty sure didn't work for the government, and while He did discourage people from trying to become rich, that was because of the way money distracts from spiritual thought, not because wealth is an inherently bad thing. 

[Guest]

[Guest Godless]

1 hour ago, unixknight said:

I've lost count of how many times I've seen Jesus Christ held up as an example of a Socialist thinker, just because He multiplied the fish and bread to feed the crowd.  (Tell you a secret, unless Jesus Himself is around, that solution's not gonna work so well the rest of the time.)  This boggles my mind.  The Savior didn't really spend much time, that we know of, talking about economic systems, but I do know that the things He did teach don't seem to fit so well with Socialist thought.  In addition to the Commandments as @LeSellers mentioned, He also talks about wisely investing resources (The parable of the 3 servants and the talents), He was a carpenter who I'm pretty sure didn't work for the government, and while He did discourage people from trying to become rich, that was because of the way money distracts from spiritual thought, not because wealth is an inherently bad thing. 

As I recall, he also said to "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's". I'm not saying that Jesus was a socialist (though I have a hard time envisioning a Christ that would be okay with our capitalist system), but there seems to be a biblical position that, while not necessarily condoning taxation by the state, certainly doesn't condemn it as evil.